No.1039594 [Last50 Posts]
I've been out of comics for several years (2010ish) due to how shit it was getting. How the fuck did it get so bad? There's no art. Nobody is drawing anything. It's all 3d sketch up backgrounds and even traced people. The coloring is the big blob of shit. Everything is flat angles - just straight on shots. There's no dynamic perspectives or action. Covers are all fucking portfolio pieces. They dont reflect whats happening in the issue - just random pose with a logo that could go on any cover. I'm going to post a bunch of examples of what I'm seeing for examples.
Look at these covers - what are the issues about? WTF is that Thor cover? You cant even tell what is happening - its just puked out colors and blobs. Who would pick that up and look at it? These are all covers that were just shit out and slapped on at random.
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No.1039595
Incompetence, nepotism, identity politics, lack of story structure, ignoring the target audience, and getting way too caught up in gimmicks/events. Even the MCU trend has made comics worse.
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No.1039597
>>1039594
Look at this Thor cover? What in gods name… Its just one big blob of white. You cant see who's fighting or whats going on - its all washed out. That's not what a cover is supposed to be.
The blackbird is crashing into buildings - its fucking tiny. The coloring is horrible. The background is fake. It's from Google Sketchup. He didnt draw it. Its sterile and shit.
The Thor interior is destroyed by composition and coloring. Where is your fucking eye supposed to go? Its all one color blurring into itself.
This Iron Man shot is all sketchup with couple blobs of people. He didnt draw it. It's fucking fraud. How is that allowed to be passed off as art?
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No.1039598
>>1039597
This piece of shit car monster is from sketchup. He didnt draw it. Its all 3d models rotated.
The next one is another sketchup background of a kitchen. It's not drawn. It's sterile art. It was used throughout the entire fucking issue. That same angle is used for almost everything in comics I'm seeing. Like they are doing sitcom tv show thumbnails.
They cant even draw a fuckign moon and the retard covers the entire team on the dragon so he doesnt have to draw them while leaving the entire panel blank. That's pure incompetence. How does that get by editorial?
And this Iron Man - its a fucking random picture washed out with coloring and a goddamn novella like some fucked up japanese light novel. Theres no art here. Its like a random picture they threw text on.
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No.1039600
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No.1039601
>>1039598
This is Spider-man and the fucking art is atrocious. The kid literally has :) smiley face. It's not some small image or background character. It's the entire point of the scene and drawing. look how fucking devoid of imagination the composition is.
The second one is an abomination of composition. The coloring blends everything together. There's no deliniation of how to read it. Left to right on one page? Across the double page spread? Why is there so much fucking text that is so painful to read?
Look at that third one - its like a thumbnail drawing blown up to an actual drawing. The panels perspectives are fucked. The people are pasted on and dont fit the background, which is a sketchup he didnt draw.
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No.1039603
>>1039601
This is a tony stark sketchbook piece. There's nothing here. No storytelling, no composition. Random art and a fucking novel on the top half of the page.
This Thor image - whats happening? Are they swinging? It looks like windups, but the giant lightning between them should be a clash. They arent doing follow through poses. And its just one big mess of an image. Its not art and its not storytelling.
For coloring, look at the fucking xmen pic. What is that??? How could you color that and say, yup, perfect. You cant tell whats going on. You have nothing to lock onto with the eye. There's no contrast and you cant even tell who anyone is from a distance. Everyone should pop and draw your eye across the page. Its just dog shit.
This spiderman flash tumblr fanfic art - how is that in a major comic for spiderman? Look at the fucking panels. Just look at them! Every comic has this trash. No perspectives, everything is a 3d model colored over. even the people are fucking tracings. How is this fucking acceptable now? Whered all the artists go?
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No.1039604
>>1039603
This isnt to say art was explicitly better in the past or that it didnt have shit stories or art at times, but the people had respect for their craft.
This is a random Black Cat/Spiderman shot from the 70s I think. Look how the angles change. The perspectives and even expressions. This would be a cut and paste 9 panel page today with them drawn/traced straight on talking to the viewer. Its insane how its changed.
This is the alien suit dying to save Peter. Look at how its cut up into panels and draws the eye across the page. It's not random. It's not like that double page spread of 24 random cuts with no direction that blends altogether.
Next one is from McFarlene era spiderman. I was never a fan of his, but he blew up big from this breakout run. The proportions arent great, but the composition is great. Coloring makes everyone pop. The flow is great. This would be completely dark and muddy piece of shit if colored today.
This coloring shit started a while back. First time I really noticed how shit digital colorists are and how they ruin art is with this John Romita Sr piece. Look up the black and white or any of his older art - it all looks better. This is fucking muddied art and coloring washes everything out. It looks bland and generic. The inking does no favours either. It's not him being older or not caring. The art looks amazing in black and white. The coloring destroyed it. This was like 20 years ago. Its a blight on comics today. Any asshole with 20 mins photoshop time is now a "pro" colorist. Keep shitting on the art until its too hard to tell how bad they are.
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No.1039606
>>1039594
Whenever I see something that I think is bad, I look at pics related and know that it's gold compared to this shit.
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No.1039607
>>1039604
Look how there's a full ass panel. Clearly better days and not cheesy at all…
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No.1039608
>>1039600
Wait… John fucking Constantine, that ice cold, run down cool guy is gay and wears pink pants?
Goddamnit!
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No.1039617
Most of your complaints about the art can be summed up in one word: deadlines. Interior artists and colorists don't have a lot of time to be fancy because they have to shit out 22 or so pages fast enough so that they can be sent to press. So of course shortcuts like pillow shading, CGI tracing, and lazy single/double page spreads are abused.
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No.1039618
This is my first and last post on /co/. I have the answer and can tell you with 100% certainty it is correct. The Batman movie with Micheal Keaton came out. Not the worse thing in the world. But the Batman 4 different color cover release of the comic book adaption was the over the line cash grab that forsaked the collector hobbyist for the casual leecher of culture. And then came SPAWN, and it was hyped beyond measure for some unknown reason… Classic case of replaced meritocracy for greed and subversion.
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No.1039620
>>1039618
My memories of the 89 Batman adaptation was that it had pretty good art by Jerry Ordway. Of course he made it look like Batman could turn his head…
But still,
>adaption
>opinion discarded
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No.1039649
>>1039620
No wait, 89 was Batman Returns, wasn't it? Was Logo Overload Maximum Meme Saturation Batman 87?
Anyway, my take on it it that when Marvel and DC dropped their "house styles" it freed artists up for more freedom of expression, but in the end, people being the fallible, corruptible mortal, flawed things of clay they are just used it as an excuse to get away with sucking and still getting paid. Editors realised they didn't need writers with the advent of Liefeld and MacFarlane being "artist slash writers", and now they realise they don't need the artists either. So they're going to keep hiring feminist bloggers to write and photoshop and poser masters to draw, and keep hiring the cheapest assholes they can while kids still pay for it.
Dropping the house styles became dropping standards. Paving the way for the vile post-plastic age we find ourselves in, where a fucking algorithm could probably write a better comic.
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No.1039659
>>1039608
Well he's a bisexual technically.
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No.1039672
>>1039594
>How the fuck did it get so bad?
Simple answer: the talent pool is drying up. Nobody reads comics, ergo there's fewer and fewer people who want to write or draw comics.
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No.1039675
>>1039672
There's plenty of talent around. Look at fucking Deviantart and fan fic, talent is a dime a dozen and has never been easier to scout, thanks to the internet. The trouble is that the assholes running the Big Two don't want to pay for talent and don't know how to treat talent, so we're stuck with this ages' vomitous drek, and they're stuck with smaller and smaller budgets because, SURPRISE ENDING, people don't want to buy garish, crude crap telling them they're assholes. What today's comic publishers don't get is that if you want to make money you have to spend money. Make comics that people would like to read, make comics that people would like to buy, make comics that you can read in public without looking like a cunt, make comics you can have on your bookcase or on your coffee table without looking like a cunt, hire some actual fucking talent and then try not to stick more than one finger at a time up their asses until you've got enough for the trade paperback! It's not rocket science, and Jack and Stan and Julie Schwartz told us the secrets to running a comic company to anyone who would listen, but the fuccbois running the show now probably wouldn't know who they were any more than the soylent blog queens writing or the Calarts mongoloids drawing do.
No, talent is the most common element in the universe, after hydrogen and stupidity. What is in short supply is COMMON SENSE and BALLS. The Greatest Generation gave us comics, the boomers gave us the Bronze Age, Gen X gave us the Plastic Age, now we look at Millennials and we have, what, what do we even call this? SewerAge? Everything is turning to shit! Shit and wank! Even fucking imageboards are turning to shit! And imageboards are the very definition of shit! The shit is getting worse! What's next, runny shit? We can't even discus comics anymore without some mong interrupting with "hey TV" or trying to samefag us, because we've dropped our fucking standards. Everybody seems to be happy playing in shit, throwing shit, eating shit. Fucking shit age, fucking Generation SHIT. SHIT FUCK BALLS CUNT
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No.1039677
>>1039675
>Look at fucking Deviantart and fan fic
>Look at two places where you'd almost never find talent
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No.1039679
>>1039677
It's still better than anything you find at Marvel or DC right now.
Sure, we're all used to cherrypicking the worst shit to laugh at, but there are so MANY fucking artists and writers who are actually better than the big two's house pets.
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No.1039705
>>1039679
Can you point to any deviantart artists that would be able to do a comic book monthly at consistent quality? I tried finding some searching in comics section and looking under popular past month with search queries like 'panels' 'sample art' 'sequential' 'layout' and variations of such. Here's a few I came up with.
This Wonder Woman vs Bane and Joker describes as sample pages for gigs hopefully at DC or Marvel. Angles are straight on, no dynamics and extreme closeups. Wonder Woman looks referenced from porn and Bane is fucking Joker in the ass? There's no storytelling here. It's paint by numbers with no life to the characters.
Panels for 'practice anatomy and layouts' for some legends of kasadia. Try and figure out what happened in this image. She's falling and grabbing cable. Then what? The apparent second panel has no landing spot - the third panel with her climbing up and villain waiting isnt visible in the second panel. How did she land on the ledge? Why was she allowed to climb up? Why didnt her wait shift the balance on the beam? The art isnt terrible, but its not a good comic book page.
The next is a Marvel sample page 'he keeps to show editors and hopefully get a gig'. Just a 2 page sequential to show his work. They are all poses. There's no action, no storytelling, and heavy referencing. (Doom is most egregious and so out of place looking in stone chair). This tells me he can do sketchbook poses and cant tell a story or show anything dynamic.
The Spider-man one is one of higher placing for popular in comic section and under most searches I did. Every single thing in that image is traced. Everything. Background is sketchup 3d models. Spiderman is stylized but just a random angle and proportions. If city and towers are so small, whats he webbing towards? Why is this a 2 page spread? There's a couple sections for credits or dialogue cut out, but the image is trash by any comic book standard. Its a sketchbook piece with a computer generated background spit out on it.
There's some actual artists on there posting preview work for books, so I didnt use them. This was the best in a quick 10 minute search about that I could find on deviantart. I imagine there's some good artists on there, but are they good comic artists? DA is filled with people that just paint over images and photo-bashing. It's not real art. It's devoid of any feeling and is why everything looks so shit in comics - they dont have other angles or references to use, so just regurgitate the same shit poses and backgrounds. It's so blatant by actual comic artists, but so easy to spot on deviant art pages.
So who do you have on DA that can do sequential art properly?
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No.1039706
>>1039705
I'll agree this is poor by Bronze Age standards, and even by Plastic Age standards it's a bit blah, but under a strong editor these artists could flourish. Editors used to coach and train artists, give them things like Wally Woods's "20 panels that always work", and match them up with good inkers or pencillers who could cover their weaknesses until they learned.
Comic art is at an all time low because, like animation, the skills aren't being passed down and the incompetent are being rewarded.
Of course, then you got to get the sons of bitches to meet a fucking deadline. If you ever figure that one out, let me know.
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No.1039709
>>1039706
Wally's panels work for dialogue and non-super-hero work. they are good fillers and fall backs, but not really 'the marvel way' or what I'd call true super hero style. To me, JR Sr and JR jr early Spider-man have all the education and foundation you could possibly need for drawing comics. Sr stuck to the traditional 9 panel per page format for a while, but started adding splashpages and breaking the mold. Jr took his father's style and blew open the doors on how comics can look. Shame his current work looks like plastic that was in the microwave for half an hour.
Crossgen comics were the last really big innovation in comics to me. High quality work, creators all worked together in their own groups at an office like a real job. Thye'd post art in their sections and everyone competing daily (no one wanted the worst pages posted, friendly competition). Different genres, art styles and storytelling. Steve McNiven was hired as a highschool art teacher and worked as an intern, learning under some of the greats. Most of the best artists and writers today came out of Crossgen. Crazy looking back on it. The only book ever published late was because of printing issue with a money order. CG had its problems (Mark Waid was a huge cunt even back then and poison to everybody in the office), but it had $1 online library of all backissues, created the modern trade paperback every 6 issue format (marvel barely did trades back then, DC was little better, but only for big storylines) and Forge/Edge anthologies at low prices to sample all books was incredible. So ahead of the game in all aspects, but Diamond and Big 2 conspired against them (Marvel and DC made more than a $1 per book more than CG) and magically major bookstores stopped stocking their books despite great sales.
I imagine DC and Marvel didnt want to have medical plans and creators owning interests or expecting the benefits. Alessi made mistakes, too, but a very coincidental series of distributor issues and printer problems occurred that make no sense in a "free market". Creators were held to standards and had to produce work. No sitting at home playing final fantasy all day like Joe Mad while he missed every deadline possible. It was a job and treated like one, but also paid and supported the creators like a real job. Big 2 did not want anything to do with that. Big name artists or writers can call shots and leave them in lurches. It's similar to WWE - they dont want a Rock or Austin or Hogan situation anymore. No one is allowed creative control or freedom to express themselves in promos or make characters. Read the lines and do what told. Brand bigger than the creators/workers. Destroyed their audience and growth, but they make more money and can suppress the industyr. Marvel and DC doing same thing. Brand bigger than creators. The brass control the messages and stories and no one can break out and make an Image comics or Walking Dead/Invincible type alternative.
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No.1039710
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No.1039713
>>1039594
Hey op, have you considered you may be a pretentious newfag?
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No.1039718
>>1039710
let him rant you shitpile
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No.1039721
>>1039600
>third pic
Those stances are hilarious, was that scene supposed to have a serious tone?
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No.1039761
>>1039594
>WTF Happened to Comics?
SJWs.
A normal human being cannot relate to insane SJW views any more than they can relate to an unironic, actual goose-stepping nazi in The Year Of Our Lord 2018.
The problem is that the only views currently allowed in big two comics are SJW views. It would be far less noticeable if there was one or two blue haired overweight tumblr dykes sprinkled in among a mix of conservative, or libertarian, or Republican, or even communist authors, but it's nothing but SJWs as far as the eye can see.
A lot of what you're criticizing has been the art, but honestly, a good story can save bad art. And the stories are shit, because SJWs can't write for shit, all they care about is pushing retarded propaganda that nobody else believes in.
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No.1039764
>>1039761
>but honestly, a good story can save bad art.
Was outing yourself as a disgusting casual part of your plan?
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No.1039767
>>1039764
>t. Bleeding Cool
Face it, every single thing wrong with big two comics nowadays is because of, and exclusively because of SJWs. It's not like Diamond told Marvel "We demand you kill off all your straight white male characters, except for the ones you turn gay, or into nazis!"
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No.1039769
>>1039767
>call his opinions shit because he thinks story>>art in comics
<HURRR SJWS
Fucking hell, man.
Also, how can everything be SJWs fault when the guys on top are the ones that hired them?
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No.1039771
>>1039769
>Also, how can everything be SJWs fault when the guys on top are the ones that hired them?
Unironically, have you ever had a job before? You think the guys "on top" waste their time personally interviewing literally anyone? They're three or four steps removed from the actual hiring process.
It's what happens everywhere else; a SJW worms their way into the company, does everything they can to get other SJWs hired, get everyone else fired, and big fucking surprise, everything then goes to utter shit.
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No.1039775
>>1039771
Did you make that cartoon yourself?
Regardless, as shit as sjws are, they're not the ones who've "ruined" comics. The companies themselves still hold that title. The flood of sjw books which more or less ended last year following Axel Alonso getting shitcanned from Marvel was the result of comic companies, especially Marvel, trying to solve the dwindling readership problem over-night. Seeing some success with their earlier, proto-sjw books, they thought they could turn those readers into regular buyers by glutting the market with "diversity".
And, as with most schemes by the Big Two, it ended disastrously. SJW readers didn't want to buy thirty books a month and got scared off, regular old-fag readers didn't appreciate their sales gimmicks, and stores nearly rebelled. So it was basically business as usual in unspeakable hell-hole that is the comics industry.
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No.1039783
>>1039764
Anon you're responding to a newfag, only a fool would write an essays worth of crap when everything he could've said could've been summed up in a sentence or two.
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No.1039788
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No.1039802
>>1039775
>Regardless, as shit as sjws are, they're not the ones who've "ruined" comics.
<The companies themselves still hold that title.
So, what you're saying is that SJWs ruined big two comics.
<BBBBBBUT IT'S THE COMPANY'S FAULT FOR HIRING THEM!!!!
It's one thing to accidentally end up hiring a shit writer.
It's another thing entirely when every fucking single dumb fucking storyline is because you hired an SJW.
In the past decade, that accounts for approximately 100% of the fucking abysmal stories we're subjected to.
It's not because of "republicans".
It's not because of "conservatives".
It's not because of "libertarians".
It's entirely due to SJWs. To deny this is beyond fucking insanity.
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No.1039807
>>1039764
That webm would have been good if it actually have bothered to explain why good art is just as important as a good story
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No.1039808
>>1039709
>Wally's panels work for dialogue and non-super-hero work.
Well, obviously. It says it right there on the top of the page. Making action scenes look interesting is far easier than doing the same with talking heads. Of course, most hacks working in comics today can't even make a fight between two people look exciting.
>>1039675
>Greatest generation
Comics Code
>the boomers gave us the Bronze Age
The same boomers killed non-cape mainstream comics in the US for close to two decades if people like Dickson, Darwyn Cooke, and other old timers are to be believed.
>>1039649
>Editors realised they didn't need writers with the advent of Liefeld and MacFarlane being "artist slash writers", and now they realise they don't need the artists either.
Actually, it was the opposite. Marvel began considering artists expendable after Shooter was ousted. That's why there was an exodus from Marvel and Image Comics was established.
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No.1039810
>>1039594
*Sees OP
*Realized that opp was constant cape cuck fucker and he never backed or bought quality comics that where made by creators who gave and damn and kept sucking endless Big TWO cape cuck cock until you was chocking to death on it.
Son, why did you keep going over and over back to your abusive housewife when you know that big 2 cape comics were never ever going to fucking get better? You know you could have bought superior product in all of that fucking time right?
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No.1039812
>>1039810
>*Sees OP
>*Realized that opp was constant cape cuck fucker and he never backed or bought quality comics that where made by creators who gave and damn and kept sucking endless Big TWO cape cuck cock until you was chocking to death on it.
This isn't a facebook rp group.
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No.1039818
Am I alone in preferring this simpler art style and visual clarity of older comics like >>1039604 vs all the excessive amount of needless detail, reflective highlights and clutter like modern comics do?
>>1039600
>>1039721
How do you fuck up burning cookies for the 13th time? After the first two times of screwing up anyone should have knowledge of the oven cooking time to know to not leaving in too long to burn them and in the panel they don't even look burnt.
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No.1039823
I don't think you can blame shit comics as a whole on SJWs. Pandering to SJWs is just symptomatic of the general malaise affecting the whole industry. Pandering to SJWs, pandering to fanboys, pandering to soccer moms, pandering to the media or the government or any political entity, it's all a quick fix to try and cash in on something. Marvel has been trying to create a feminist super-hero since Ms. Marvel, but the schizophrenic nature of the Marvel Method ensures she's always dressed like a stripper.
Marvel and DC tried to cash in on blaxploitation, feminism, riot grrl, kung fu, Hercules The Legendary Journeys, Godzilla, anime, Star Wars, Occupy and gangsta, of course they're going to try to make a buck off SJW and BLM. It's when they start getting high off their own supply and actually start believing they're in it for anything else than to make a quick buck that they fuck it up. AGAIN.
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No.1039848
>>1039812
>This isn't a facebook rp group.
And you young fucking turk should stop fucking posting like you're on twatter with your fucking smartphone posting you asshat and thinking that less than the 140 characters you farted out with your beguiling brain biscuits invalidates what I said. Nor does it invalidate that the small sample I dropped is superior to the damn shit you're complaining about.
You like running with the pigs and eating mental waste and garbage for the rest of your waking life instead of buying good high quality work when it's out there in print or online? Then go take yourself out to the fucking barn and drown yourself in the damn mud and continue to drown your face in the Soy trough. The point still stands, as per >>1039775
the big two were always bad news since the beginning of the aughts.
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No.1039856
>>1039823
The one thing I always found funny when they tried to ride on Occupy's coat tails was that the movement was already dead by that point. Looking back they did the same with disco in the Xmen comics that came out in the 80's despite disco being a 70's thing.
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No.1039865
>>1039856
Oh my God yes, the fucking Disco Dazzler.
People now just remember her as the boring one from the X-Men's Australian years, but she used to wear roller skates, flares, and KISS facepaint.
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No.1039905
>>1039823
>I don't think you can blame shit comics as a whole on SJWs. Pandering to SJWs is just symptomatic of the general malaise affecting the whole industry.
No, actually, you can blame the current state of big two comics entirely on SJWs, because every single horrible comic was written by an SJW, drawn and colored by SJWs, and "edited" by a bunch of SJWs.
Now, at the highest level of these companies, they're not SJWs. They're just senile old boomers who ask,
>"What's popular with the youth these days? Are they still into that hippity hop negro spiritual music?"
And then some SJW cunt who weasled their way into a position of minor power goes,
<"Oh no, sir, what's really popular is SOCIAL JUSTICE! That means we kill off all the straight white male characters, except for the ones we turn into faggots!"
>"Well, shucks howdy, that sounds ABSOLUTELY RETARDED, but if that's what the kids want, make it happen!"
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No.1040119
>>1039905
Reminds me a lot of that Frank Zappa interview where he talks about why the music industry went to shit.
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No.1040126
>>1039761
>but honestly, a good story can save bad art
Yeah, because people who see comics in the shop often say 'Wow, that looks well written'
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No.1040171
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No.1040954
>Look how shit comics are getting
>Posts 2 great covers, one ehh one and one that would be great if it wasn't so muddy and crowded
I agree with you comics have gone to the dogs, but your examples are shit.
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No.1040955
>>1040954
Aaannd the rest of your examples more than made up for it. I mad now.
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No.1040974
>>1040954
The Spider-Man background is a 3D model. He did not draw any of it. He opened sketchup or another program and converted to lineart and placed on a background layer. All he's drawn is a 10 minute portfolio piece you could buy in artist alley for $50. It is not related to the comic, the story and doesnt tell you anything about the comic except that the artist is fucking lazy and you are paying for 3d models someone else designed and he just pasted into his "art".
The Batman is a mirrored image that was pasted over and adjusted very slightly. He basically drew one Batman. Its a very bland cover. The background bats are a digital brush pattern. He didnt draw them. And based on how straight the limbs are for Batman and Bruce, it is likely these are traced 3D models to begin with. There's literally no bend to the knees. No one stands spread eagle with perfectly straight legs or has an arm flexed and held out perfectly straight with a bend wrist. It's retarded in every possible way. The fucking bat logo is pasted on - it doesnt contour to the chest. He didnt draw it. He has the logo off on a separate file and pasted it on and transform tooled it and still fucked it up. The fact you cant see how bad that art is says a lot about you.
Here's a similar Spider-Man cover. It uses negative space perfectly with a perspective of buildings to add dynamic verticality to the image. You feel Spider-Man's motion and the contrast is striking. The Spider-Man cover in OP could be pasted anywhere. The black contrast is a nice choice, but its a perfectly bright day. The muddied colouring makes the 3d background tracing look like it doesnt matter and is disconnected from Spider-Man. There's no motion or energy from Spider-Man. He's just there - like a simple portfolio drawing he threw on because he was rushed. There's no perspective or dynamism to the composition. The artist has talent. Spidey is well drawn. The cover is absolute hot garbage though.
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No.1040975
American big-two superhero comics were always kind of shit but they became a whole new level of shit when the poz started to leak in the 90s or so, thank God I grew reading stuff like Asterix instead.
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No.1040981
>>1040975
>>1040974
Aint reading all that shit.
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No.1040988
You make some really good points OP. I think the problem stems from something I can't really prove. I think the big two's profit majority comes from brand recognition. I frankly doubt any of the comics are expected to make decent amounts, they're just something they're keeping around for whatever reason while the big bucks are coming in from movies or video games. Following that, no one with skill would actually wish to work for something deemed as a throwaway at best. So you have all these rookies having a go at it, but then again barely anyone is reading this shit, let alone anyone giving criticism, let alone anyone who takes criticism instead of dismissing it as muh hurt feelings.
In that line of thinking I can't see talent growing in the medium in a "mainstream" comic or publisher. It either rides along on brand recognition or it rides on some political premise.
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No.1041043
>>1040974
I read a really good essay in the letters page of Gold Digger, on how Fred Perry could up his cover game. It analysed Fred's covers, and covers generally, and then told him to look at Norman Rockwell, and that that the best covers tell a story, explaining in visual shorthand the basic conflict of the story within.
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No.1041088
>>1039902
>Anons actually have a productive thread speaking about comics
< TOO LONG DIDN'T READ!
This is why I want cuckchan fucking gone.
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No.1041090
>>1039594
SJWs same as everything how slow are you?
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No.1041141
>>1041131
>You read the thread or you GTFO.
>reading someone's blog post detailing their shitty political beliefs about an industry on a board that's known this shit since the very beginning, with Anon's that have been through multiple industry wide plagues and already knows a full industry wide collapse is needed to fully save anything.
>stench of cuckchan
You call me a filthy nigger from cuckchannel, yet you're acting as if the entire board is new to whatever shit you're spewing.
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No.1041146
>>1041141
If this thread bothers you so much then why stay?
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No.1041147
>>1041146
You replied to my post, I simply gave a rebuttal.
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No.1041149
>>1041090
>sjws are to blame
God I wish that were true.
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No.1041239
>>1041043
Do you mind linking that essay?
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No.1041241
>>1039595
What you said plus SJWs
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No.1041245
>>1041241
>2nd pic
Replacing characters in itself isn't the problem, it's the ass backwards way of doing it that nu age writers choose, and of course the reason behind it (virtue signaling)… When Robin was replaced by a girl in tDKR it happened smoothly in a way that made sense in the scope of the story, besides that the girl was a very appealing character in the first place that she easily fit in the role of Robin. By contrast today's replacements are shitty one-dimensional characters that get aggressively shoehorned into the story in the most nonsensical way possible, where they proceed to shit on the OG characters they replaced while boasting about their minority status.
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No.1041251
General Cultural Decline.
Part of it came about intentionally by commie protoSJW useful idiots and the rest is caused by rampant profit over quality style capitalism. Both communism and capitalism are enemies of artistic expression and merit in the world of art.
Buildings are ugly now. Cars are ugly now. Comics are ugly now. The reasons why are the same but it just took a bit longer to take hold in comic books. The sad reality is that the quality of art schools has dramatically declined. There are barely any fine art figure drawing courses left. It's all about squirting paint out of your ass now, literally.
Computer colorization also fucked things up. Comics work best with simple flat colors, as they are easier on the eyes to understand what's going on. When everything started having redundant gradients and wacky colors in the mid 90s, comic books just started to look like shit. I also blame all of the Image guys and their enormous success for the cartoonization of comics. Guys like Liefeld and McFarlane ushered in the era of those blocky limbed and bug eyed abominations that are found everywhere in comics now.
Open a book from the 70s or 80s and you will find realistic looking fine art figure drawing, executed with not always the most of skill and talent but t least always honestly being aimed for. Open a book from the late 90s or 00s and you'll find this kind of bullshit. Of course you can always cherry pick exceptions from those eras but in general that's how it is. Guys like Liefeld selling huge numbers really destroyed the idea that a penciller had to be technically proficient. Not anymore, as long as the style became popular and sold issues, it didn't matter anymore how artistically incompetent the creator was.
Commies destroyed the art world and then slowly eradicated the teaching of actual skills from art schools. Capitalism naturally regressed towards appealing to the lowest common denominator that will gobble up the lowest quality crap produced in the cheapest possible way. Communism and Capitalism are really just a good cop/bad cop duo that will both destroy excellence and knowledge on how to attain it. Being the best at art isn't profitable, neither is it egalitarian. Selling shitty tumblr art for 5 bucks a floppy funnybook is both profitable and egalitarian.
Now I know that comic are dying but it's not because of diversity or low quality actually, it's because of vidya and the internet. If they started producing the best drawn and written books they possibly could, sales wouldn't go up much. If at all because while oldschool fans would be buying again, lots of newer fans who are used to the shit art would stop reading.
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No.1041252
>>1041251
Forgot the pic of mid 90s bullshit art.
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No.1041254
>>1041251
>Now I know that comic are dying but it's not because of diversity or low quality actually, it's because of vidya and the internet.
<its counterpart is printed on the cheapest black and white sheets of paper available and still manages to remain successful
Wow you really are the dumbest idiot around here.
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No.1041256
>>1040126
>Yeah, because people who see comics in the shop often say 'Wow, that looks well written'
Nobody thinks a book is good because it has a good cover.
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No.1041258
>>1041251
>the rest is caused by rampant profit over quality style capitalism.
Well… no. Not even remotely. Part of the huge problem with comics is that the big two actively shit all over their audiences in order to push SJW politics that nobody wants, actively giving up what is profitable to push their insane ideology. So not only is the quality shit, but it's not even shit to maximize profit, and SJWs are to blame for both.
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No.1041261
>>1041258
It very much did happen in the 90s. Quality art wasn't a requirement anymore. The ideology pushing is really just a misguided attempt to get hip with the times from the boomer execs.
>>1041254
We aren't discussing manga here, this is /co/ not /a/. Mangas don't suffer from convoluted canons, they are creator owned, have consistent art (no changing teams), etc etc etc.
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No.1041263
>>1041258
Things went haywire in the late 80ss/early 90s when Marvel was taken over by businessmen and Shooter was ousted. Creative industry starts dying as soon as more business people than creative ones are involved.
Of course, in case of comics, industry was crippled beforehand by capefags who took over in early 80s and made whole industry revolve around capes.
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No.1041264
>>1041261
>Mangas don't suffer from convoluted canons
The argument you brought fourth made no reference to art or canons but other media snuffing out comics, thus the comparison applies when the other side of the coin any if all adaptations are made to advertise the book.
God you're a fucking idiot.
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No.1041265
>>1041251
>Ops pic related.
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No.1041266
>>1041256
You're better off arguing to a wall of wet paint, because this nigger is just going to go on and on about the same stuff.
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No.1041272
>>1041261
>It very much did happen in the 90s. Quality art wasn't a requirement anymore.
I don't think 90s art was particularly bad. It just became what we now see as stereotypical X-TREME Liefield nonsense. But I'm not particularly picky about my art, as long as the stories are decent.
>>1041263
See, here's the thing. You and the other guy keep trying to blame "the execs", but they're not the ones writing the stories, they're not the ones drawing the stories, and they're not the ones editing the stories. The piece of shit I'm throwing in the trash can isn't the result of business executives, everything wrong with it was done by SJWs.
And, while we're at it, exactly where do you two think these "business execs" are getting the idea that "zoomers are really into this whole justice bullshit!"? What type of person would be feeding them this misinformation? Hint: It's more SJWs.
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No.1041279
>>1041239
Not sure where to find it, tbh, the online copies of GD don't include letters pages.
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No.1041281
>>1041272
>The piece of shit I'm throwing in the trash can isn't the result of business executives, everything wrong with it was done by SJWs.
But the businessmen consider what's being done by the sjws to be acceptable. They're actively condoning crap comics. If suddenly every single person you consider and sjw were purged from the industry, the crap comics would continue.
The worst part is that you act like comics being crap is somehow a new thing. Do you remember when Amazons Attack and "One More Day" happened? Did you even know they happened?
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No.1041286
>>1041281
>They're actively condoning crap comics.
Because SJWs are telling them that people like SJW bullshit, and the reason nobody is buying their retarded SJW bullshit is for reasons that have nothing to do with being a SJW. You know, kind of like what you're doing now.
>If suddenly every single person you consider and sjw were purged from the industry, the crap comics would continue.
Entirely wrong. SJWs are a unique brand of awful. Even if you replaced every single one of them with a literal, unironic, goose stepping Nazi, they still wouldn't do shit like "HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT WOULD BE A COOL IDEA, WHAT IF WE REPLACED EVERY SINGLE MINORITY CHARACTER WITH A WHITE PERSON?!" And that's in an unrealistically bad scenario. In the most likely scenario, if we took every single person in the industry out back in shot them in the head, and replaced them with fresh talent, we would likely get an (hold on to your butt here) ACTUALLY DIVERSE SET OF STORIES, AND NOT JUST SJW GARBAGE. I don't mean the cuck version of "diversity", I mean an ACTUAL diverse set of stories, viewpoints, etc, instead of everyone just toeing the line of whatever the latest progressive horse shit happens to be. Would some of them be shit? Sure, which brings us to:
>The worst part is that you act like comics being crap is somehow a new thing.
The difference being before, if certain comics were shit, they would be shit for a variety of different reasons. Now if a comic is shit, it's pretty much entirely because some dumb SJW was writing it as a propaganda piece, which is why it's shit. And what they don't seem to get is that "race" isn't the problem, and simply turning a character into a difference race to spout your SJW bullshit doesn't make it good. This is evident when their whole "turn everyone into legacy niggers" bombed, they brought all the original characters back, except they're all still written by the same SJWs, so the stories still fucking blow.
>Do you remember when Amazons Attack and "One More Day" happened? Did you even know they happened?
Oh look, it's the eternal cry of the marvelcuck. "U NO REED COMACS!"
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No.1041291
>>1041286
>marvelcuck
>its the Anon that accuses everyone of shilling for marvel when he's Trapped in a corner
That would explain the vast amounts of autistic essays in this thread.
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No.1041303
>>1041241
Most of those Marvel character changes are terrible, I can see Falcon becoming Cap as passable since he and Cap have worked together. X-23 replacing Wolverine is stretch since it seems like Wolverine can't even die (through mutant abilities and sheer popularity).
It's when you have new characters with no legacy replacing existing ones is when it get annoying and blatant. Even then that situation is not perfect as Jane Foster as Thor showed how stupid it can look (and some of it may be for possible replacements for the Marvel Cinematic Universe)
The Cap Marvel situation is annoying but Marvel Comics has to keep making CM comic because of that stupid trademark drama.
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No.1041310
>>1041272
Execs do not write comics, but they do decide things like who will be editor in chief, company's strategy, or which books will be approved. Only things they care about are bottom line and keeping stockholders/execs above them/etc. happy. Most execs do not know anything about comic books or comic book creation process, so they behave as if they were a good no different than toilet paper or beer. If execs like that want to increase profits, they will dump money into marketing, emulate successful products, hire cheapest employees possible, and use focus groups.
Place where SJWs enter the picture are:
>Editor in Chief
>Cheapest employees possible
>Focus groups
Editor in chief has execs' ears. In their eyes, EiC is the comics expert. Execs will consult with EiC when they will make decisions. Someone like Alonso in that position will result in Marvel 2011-2017.
Going for the cheapest employees ends up with ignoring industry veterans who want fair wages and instead focusing on desperate tumblr artists, baristas hoping to become writers, and cheap foreigners. First two groups are full of SJWs. They are also going to be favored over foreigners, because there are no language or time zone barriers. Another important factor is that most of hiring process is handled by HR departments, which are usually stacked with SJWs, so they will obviously favor their own kind.
As far as I know, there are no official focus groups in comics, but social media are used in their stead. If comics bloggers and twitter twats are upset about something, companies will look at their reaction and change course if reaction is loud enough.
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No.1045325
>>1039775
>which more or less ended last year
lmao
you actually believe this or are you just lying?
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No.1045340
>>1039594
I really want to know the answer. Comics used to have million issue sellers, TV commercials, they were a big deal. Where the hell did all the readers go in the 90's? Did anyone in the industry even care to get the readers back? Today we have all these assholes running around saying how great the industry is doing when it's readership is a fraction of what it was. I know some of the history and answers, but I can't help but marvel at the greater picture of the gigantic fuck up that is comics.
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No.1045354
>>1045340
Disney just recently finally admitted sales are plummeting. Not like they'll actually fix anything about it.
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No.1045371
>>1045340
As with everything, there are probably many different contributing factors. Comics code, capefags entering the industry and killing other genres, short term profit obsession, pandering to collector's market, reliance on gimmicks and controversies, industry's abysmal treatment of creators, and industry's ignorance of internet until fairly recently, price jacking, and letting ideologues in all contributed to the shitshow we have today.
To address 90s sales specifically, they were inflated by collectors hoping to get their hands on a book that will be another Action Comics #1 in few years. Other than that, people had more disposable income than they do today and less things were competing for their attention. In their infinite wisdom, Marvel and DC decided to pander to comic book shops and pull from the stands. They were oblivious that sooner or later market will start to shrink, and selling their product in niche stores will bring niche sales figures. Being limited to effectively one genre of product certainly did not help either.
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No.1045374
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
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No.1045391
>>1045374
That video is always relevant.
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No.1045416
>>1045354
They won't fix anything. We'll live to see the day all Marvel comics are licensed to another publisher.
>>1045371
Nice post. I probably sounded more ignorant of the situation than I am. I would just love for someone to make a series tying in sales figures to the timeline of the fuck ups. Tie everything together to make one big picture of what the fools squandered.
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No.1045433
>>1045416
That already happened with IDW publishing a line of Marvel comics now.
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No.1045456
>>1039594
DC is still good, but the cover to that Batman comic is dull. As far Marvel, the colors and cover are the least of their problems. Marvel has been infiltrated by SJW's and it has led to poor comic book sales.
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No.1045597
>>1039594
> 4th pic
> SCHITI
Indeed.
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No.1054644
>>1039594
That thor cover literally made my eyes hurt, what the fuck.
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No.1054648
>>1054644
It's a Diversity Comic, so they're trying to use Bisexual Lighting to get sales. Instead it ends up looking like Volstagg the Enormous ate about 15 kilos of trifle and puked all over the art.
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No.1054652
Modern art "education" having no technique standards, no skills, tracing 3d renders and no one inking their shit has killed comic art.
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No.1054788
>>1045371
Most of the things you mentioned have nothing to do with the reason why what I'm holding my hands is a flaming piece of shit with a "Marvel" or "DC" stamp on it.
Because the reason is SJWs.
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No.1058801
>>1054788
SJWs didn't just get into the industry because they wanted. All those elements created circumstances that made the industry easier to infiltrate.
>Comics Code
It set the precedent for censorship in the comics industry and creation of material that was very conformist. More importantly, Comics Code killed off a lot of DC's competition and let to the birth of Marvel. Many people who were willing to experiment, go against the grain, or unwilling to put up with restrictions on topics they can tell stories about left the industry. Less companies also meant les jobs in the industry.
>capefags
If people like Pat Dixon and Darwyn Cooke are to be believed, influx of fanboys into the industry is responsible for depriving non-cape comics of marketing, talent, and funding. Even more competent people left the industry, as did readership of westerns, military, marital-arts, and horror comics. Interesting note is that fandom of these genres in film, literature, and video games are often considered 'problematic.' From my anecdotal experience, first two genres are overwhelmingly more appealing to people with conservative views. Therefore, it is possible that capefags purged comic book industry from people that could put up resistance to SJWs.
>pandering to collector's market and comic book shops
Comic book shops and collectors are more commonly found in large urban areas which also tend to lean left. Rural areas tend to lean right, and people over there were more reliant on the news stands and convenience stores to get their comics. That excluded big portions of the conservative readership, meaning less conservative people had exposure to comics, and thus less conservative people were driven to enter the comics industry.
>short term profit obsession
>gimmicks
All-New All-Different Marvel thing happened because Marvel was obsessed with gimmicks and trend chasing. Someone simply pointed at Twitter and Tumblr and convinced Ike that both sites represent modern youth and current hip trends, and that's where the audience is. Marvel's management being incompetent morons or people who use these sites nodded their heads and let that shit happen. Same thing happened with DC few years prior two when Marvel did it.
Of course, they only thought about the short term, and did not consider whether these direction will be relevant in the future, how they will affect existing audience, and whether new reader will stick around at all.
>controversies
Above caused controversies, which in eyes of the big two are good. After all, controversy = free marketing = more people buying comics. In fact, why not make more SJW books? They will generate even more controversy, so even more people will get the books.
>bad treatment of creators
This shit drives out talented people who want livable wages. Ones willing to work for shitty pay that big two offer either do it for the love of the medium, because they can't work elsewhere, or because they get some extra benefit. SJWs are willing to work for shitty money since they usually have limited career prospects anyway, and extra perk from creating comics is a platform to preach their political views.
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No.1058810
>>1058801
>SJWs are to blame for everything
Ah, the casuals have returned.
Instead of taking apart your entire post, all I'm going to say is
>comics are a low class medium created by the children of poor immigrants who couldn't get work in more established media
and
>the Comics Code was a response to the 1950s Great Comic Book Scare, a rural conservative panic caused by the changes in society following World War 2
I think that should cover your "conservatives in comics" argument.
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No.1058866
>>1041251
You should provide sources and more examples. Some of us don't really read many Western comics, so we don't know why Liefeld and McFarlane are worse than those before, or why that example you gave here >>1041252 is bad exactly. Also, I'm surprised there are as many newer fans as there are old jaded ones, as you claim.
While Marxist philosophy and capitalism are both factors into this decline, there is more to it, but anyway.
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No.1058867
>>1058810
Why sah-gay, and who are you quoting? Please pick apart his entire argument if you can, because otherwise you're just shitting out an opinion as if this were some normalfaggot social media. If you have a good argument, then share, so we can all improve.
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No.1058871
>>1058810
>SJWs write shitty stories
>somehow SJWs aren't to blame for the shitty stories they write
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No.1058905
>>1045340
Video games. In the mid 90s studios and content creators collectively decided that games weren’t going anywhere and that making stuff for men and boys was no longer sustainable with games diverting so much of the male entertainment dollar. So violence and titties and all things masculine were displaced by grrl power and female-friendly franchises — Buffy, Xena, Harry Potter, X-Files, etc. Girls who grew up with the latter now are now shitting up everything.
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No.1058959
>>1058871
they are comic books, what do you expect, the next american novel ?
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No.1058978
>>1058905
They made Buffy and Xena to appeal to men with lesbos and titties but they "accidentally" brainwashed developing male brains into being trannies
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No.1059125
>>1058959
>haha, why the hell would anyone care about comics on board called "/co/ - Comics & Cartoons"?
Do me a fucking favor and kill yourself so I never have to suffer through reading another one of your shitposts ever again.
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No.1065087
Big culprit is that many people drawing comics do not understand visual storytelling. Too many artists grew up reading big two comics. Art in them was generally bad since late 80s and early 90s, and it only got worse as time went on. As a result, all most modern artists and readers know are boring talking heads and stiff, silly fights. To make things worse, many artists picked up some techniques from film and television, which do not work well in comics. Biggest offenders are shot-reverse-shot and long takes. Both of these approaches facilitate reuse of art with only minimal changes which makes these techniques easy to apply.
Look at this page from Saga. Same image of the cat is reused three times in a row. Next are two panels with slight modifications. Background is identical across every panel. Girl's legs are reused on 4 panels, and torso is only very slightly modified. Only thing that actually changes is her head. This looks lazy and could can be fixed with little effort. Establishing panel and the last one could stay as they are. Other panels could vary angles from which readers see the character. For example, when girl is staring off in the distance, reader's POV could be from the spot she is looking at. Fourth panel would be more effective if there would be a close up on girl's face, and 'lying' could come from off screen. It would be even more effective if its background was solid black to contrast the revelation with idyllic background. Different shape of that panel would achieve similar thing. We do not really need to see the cat in every panel - cat does not change its position or expression from ones already established in the first panel.
Overall, this this is something that works well in film or TV, but looks boring in a comic. And yet, people regard this as some of the best art in American comics. They do not notice blatant copy pasting and poor visual storytelling.
Things would not be so bad if artists would think about what they draw and put some effort into understanding the medium. You can learn a lot just by reading old comics, niche books like Asterios Polyp, some decent manga, and European books. When you read, put yourself in artists' shoes and ask why they drew things this way instead of another. That's all it takes to get a grasp on visual storytelling, but apparently it's too much to ask for today.
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No.1068185
>>1039761
>A lot of what you're criticizing has been the art, but honestly, a good story can save bad art. And the stories are shit, because SJWs can't write for shit, all they care about is pushing retarded propaganda that nobody else believes in.
Comics are a visual medium. Art is the primary component through which story is conveyed. It communicates actions, descriptions, and settings. Dialogues are secondary. Bad art can undermine what's written, and make the book incomprehensible in extreme cases.
Look at last panel in third image in >>1039598. It is a pretty entry level joke, but it would be much better if that panel was made into two. Current panel should have only the first two speech balloons. Third speech balloon should get a new panel with character being a surprised or puzzled. This is a small change, which would make the joke work better on the page and improve comic's pacing.
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No.1068186
>>1068185
Anon why are you responding to 7 month old posts?
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No.1068196
>>1039764
remind me what that show is called?
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No.1068200
>>1068196
Its called "Capitalize your damn letters summerfag" the television program.
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No.1068316
Everyones too busy bitching about big publications and the leftist hacks that populate it on the internet instead of actually picking up some digital tools, partnering up and drawing/writing some good shit while publishing it via the internet they merely use to bitch and moan.
Drawing and writing is some of the easiest forms of entertainment one can make, it takes much less resources than something like movies or videogames which is still very much attainable without a budget.
SO GET TO IT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT, YOU'RE THE NEW GENERATION GET TO WORK AND CREATE, SHILL AND SELL SOMETHING YOU LIKE AND WANT TO SEE OTHER PEOPLE ENJOY
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No.1068545
>>1068185
If your problem with "West Coast Avengers" is some of their paneling, you are everything that's wrong with comics.
It's literally the worst comic published since America.
Shitty paneling is irrelevant to everything else that makes it an abomination.
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No.1068548
I’ve been keeping up with Comicsgate for some time, mostly via Uncle Ethan, Ya Boi Zack, and some other YouTubers. A while back YBZ/Diversity and Comics did a video on a new SJW comics publisher, but rather than focusing his criticism on their SJW agenda, he attacked them for deciding to not publish superhero comics. I have seen some of the ongoing crowdfunding campaigns by creators in Comicsgate, and it is all superhero comics – I honestly couldn’t differentiate between the covers if they removed the title.
I think there is a lack of non-superhero comics being made by Comicsgate creators, and that they risk saturating the market very quickly. Are there any Comicsgate projects that are not done in the same Marvel Comics style with costumed superheroes?
As a European who grew up with Lee Falk’s The Phantom, Hergé’s The Adventures of Tintin, PKNA, the Donald Duck & Scrooge McDuck comics of Carl Barks, Don Rosa, and others, the Conan the Barbarian comics, and some of McFarlane’s early Spawn, I would like to see Comicsgate projects that don’t ape the cookie-cutter Marvel formula with superheroes, and explore other genres and art styles.
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No.1068556
>>1068548
>Are there any Comicsgate projects that are not done in the same Marvel Comics style with costumed superheroes?
Not really. Comicsgate is a conservative movement, which means they have traditional views on what comics are. Since the traditional view is that comics are mostly realistically rendered cape comics, then that is what they produce.
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No.1068557
>>1068548
At this point if you want wide variety you'll need to read manga. A lot of indie comics are superheroes, spies, or some horror.
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No.1068559
>>1068556
A conservative American movement then, with a focus on superheroes. I loved reading the reprints of the 1950s EC Comics horror stories growing up – especially the ones illustrated by Graham Ingels. It seems superheroes didn’t really take over till around the 1960s in the U.S.
Just imagine stories of high adventure, thrillers, horror, science fiction, etc., done in the narrative style and art style of Prince Valiant/Ingeniør Knut Berg…
>>1068557
I did read manga in my late teens/very early twenties – Love Hina, Death Note, and whatever was published in Shonen Jump. More recently I’ve thankfully discovered Junji Ito, and last summer I binge read everything he’s done.
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No.1068560
>>1068559
I recommend Vinland Saga, All You Need Is Kill, The Ghost & The Lady, To Your Eternity, & Golden Kamuy.
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No.1068563
>>1068548
What? Is this bait? A lot of comics on https://www.indiecron.com/ are about people with superpowers, but it isn't that much capes. Scroll though the descriptions.
>>1068556
The most fundamental value of Comicsgate seems to be: Don't be to political. Don't insult your customers when the hold other beliefs. They only produce some cape comics.
>>1068316
I agree, which websites are helpfull? I know about indiecron.com, indiegogo.com, and I found another website where it's possible to upload comics and get paid for the downloads, but I got banned for publishing the link to their startpage. I figure it was automatic, because there were to many people putting in links to their comics on that site. So I only want to mention that their are website where this can be done, though it's seems to be run by Japanese and therefore Manga and Anime centered (also Games).
On the topic of what to do about it: If you are American, please also contact the person responsible for the financing of libraries. It would be great if this could be cut down or regulated. SJW use them to get their comics sold (see video). People in other countries also should visit their libraries and look if they buy a lot of SJW comics to support them. If so, then report back please. I'll do so the next few days.
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No.1068566
>>1068563
<Don't be to political.
Except when it's politics to the right. Nobody in comicsgate raises a fuss about Alt-Hero or Chuck Dixon's adaptation of Clinton Cash.
<Don't insult your customers when the hold other beliefs.
Nice little insert to justify your victim complex, and like above, it's completely hypocritical. Comicsgate main form of "activism" is getting into fights on twitter and accusing people of everything from lying to pedophilia.
You are a condescending weasel. I know you're full of shit, you know you're full of shit, everyone on this board knows you're full of shit. Yet you continue to squirm around being all ambiguous as if we're all too stupid to see you're a shill. Insulting.
Also, your library plan is really fucking stupid and you have no idea how libraries work.
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No.1068576
>>1068566
Ask more and make less statements. What I wrote is what some people like EVS do. When others make political comics on the right it's their thing. As long as they don't claim to be Comicsgate, or at least not the standard comicsgater. Also, unlike the SJW in these big corps they are not the ones using established characters to promote their politics and insult everyone which disagrees with them. They are doing more or less the same thing, making themselves more independent. Just with the difference that they put more political stuff in their comics.
> Comicsgate main form of "activism" is getting into fights on twitter
Comicsgate is an idea, not one strictly organized group. I'm only watching videos on Youtube, about people making comics and promoting them. What some are doing on Youtube and if the fights are justified or whatever, I don't know about.
> being all ambiguous as if we're all too stupid to see you're a shill. Insulting.
Always the shill thingy, look it up what it means. I'm not working for someone claiming to be a happy customer. There even isn't a company I'm supporting, but different authors and projects.
>have no idea how libraries work
I don't know who is financing them in US, in other countries it's the government in some way. Even if not, then there are laws making the donations tax-deductible, and they can be changed, or not? That's why is was asking.
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No.1068578
>>1068576
>Ask more and make less statements.
>replies almost exclusively with statements
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No.1068583
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>1068578
Is this going anywhere. My statements are from someone watching Comicsgate videos, yours are just slurs, speculations and nonsense. Of course I'm not asking you about it, why would I? I know more about it than you. Feel free to point out where I'm wrong, anyways.
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No.1068586
>>1068583
>Comicsgate video
No one cares about your mentality retarded ecelebrities.
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No.1068592
>>1068583
I didn't know you were an expert on watching TV, Anon. Please excuse my disrespect.
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No.1068598
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>1068586
You are pretty much invested in fighting them, so you do care, or not?
>>1068592
Butthurt because you have no source for your accusations? Why has this to be a competition? I thought that's the big advantage of not having usernames. Just stop hating people which want to make independent comics. If you think they are better ones, tell everyone.
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No.1068603
>>1068598
>usernames
We've got a newfag here. A newfag whose first language isn't english.
You're also going to have to elaborate on what accusations you're talking about. Except if it's the accusation that you're a shill. That's not an accusation. It's a fact.
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No.1068607
>>1068576
>I don't know who is financing them in US, in other countries it's the government in some way. Even if not, then there are laws making the donations tax-deductible, and they can be changed, or not? That's why is was asking.
Wow. You've got some serious delusions of grandeur there, with the whole "destroying public institutions because of comics you don't like".
You could just submit a Formal Written Request for Reconsideration at your local library concerning a comic you don't like. All you have to do is write about how the comic is an SJW comic and why it needs to be banned. That'll start the time consuming Official Reconsideration Process where they determine if the book meets the libraries collection development policy. Your challenge will likely get reported to the American Library Association, and possibly the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund if they know about them. Then you'll finally get a letter in the mail telling you that they've denied your request because "fuck censorship".
If you still want the book banned, you can appeal the decision and have the fun of a public Challenge hearing where you can argue against the library's decision by stammering through a transcript of whatever crap Richard Meyer churned out that week.
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No.1068616
>>1068607
Or he spreads his idea to Republicans which are sharing the hate against SJW. Then someone changes the whole procedure on which they select comics. Or they cut the public support for libraries.
>"fuck censorship"
It's not censorship, it's about tax money being used to support comics with low sales.
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No.1068619
>>1068616
Comics that go into libraries are decided by the local library itself, and banning books from libraries would be a violation of the first amendment (Island Trees School District v. Pico).
Also, your premise that "libraries are propping up low selling comics" is fucking retarded. Libraries don't buy floppies, they buy graphic novels, and it's one or two of them at the most. How on earth you came to the conclusion that libraries were to blame is beyond me.
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No.1068620
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No.1068622
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>1068619
>>1068620
>Also, your premise that "libraries are propping up low selling comics" is fucking retarded.
Welcome to 🤡🌎 nigger
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No.1068623
>>1068619
>>1068620
Hey you know you can delete your posts right?
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No.1068624
>>1068622
>🤡🌎
>being this obvious
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No.1068625
>>1068624
<Whatever you do, don't respond, just say it is bait and pretend like you weren't wrong
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No.1068626
>>1068622
Are you actually using fucking emojis here and expect to be taken seriously?
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No.1068628
>>1068622
<IT'S TRUE CAUSE EVS TOLD ME
Ethan Van Schiver doesn't know shit from Shinola.
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No.1068638
>>1068598
>I thought that's the big advantage of not having usernames.
Usually the advantage is that you can't hold a grudge against someone for past conversations, but I guess that doesn't work when you think everyone talking to you is a single nonsensical hypocrite.
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No.1068646
>>1068545
It was just to illustrate how bad art can hinder writing. Bad art itself is a symptom of comics industry being filled by incompetent hacks. That is preset in both the creative and business parts of it.
>>1068583
>comicsgate
It's full of faggots and hypocrites, especially in most prominent positions. Van Scriver is the biggest one. If someone dares to criticize him, Ethan and his fans will not hesitate to harass and dox, just like certain other group on social media. Another issue are ecelebs who make bad comics, who overshadow people who make good comics but lack popularity. People like D&C should stay away from creating comics, and instead promote creators who make good ones. Unfortunately, D&C can't even do that, since his taste is shit. in fact, he tends to avoid good comics if they are foreign or are too dissimilar from Marvel and DC's offerings. Didn't people pay him money on Patreon to read and review Berserk, but he refused to do it?
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No.1068654
>>1068619
> banning books from libraries would be a violation of the first amendment
The problem is you are stupid and think you are smart. Where did I write about banning a specific book?
>Also, your premise that "libraries are propping up low selling comics" is fucking retarded.
Did you check several of them or just sharing beliefs as they were facts. If you don't know then don't make aggressive statements.
>Libraries don't buy floppies, they buy graphic novels, and it's one or two of them at the most.
If that's true, then what do you care about? Scared that we draw attention to that? Who is the shill here? Are you working for Marvel or DC?
> How on earth you came to the conclusion that libraries were to blame is beyond me.
Could just have asked about more information.
>>1068626
More distractions? Pathetic.
>>1068646
> If someone dares to criticize him, Ethan and his fans will not hesitate to harass and dox, just like certain other group on social media.
Oh yea this sound believable… NOT. You have proof that Ethan did this? Or is he responsible for every fan, if it even happened?
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No.1068659
>>1068654
>Where did I write about banning a specific book
You didn't, he was making a supporting point to the earlier statement in the paragraph, you illiterate nigger. Most of what you said is retarded and that is the easiest to point out.
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No.1068660
>>1068654
Libraries being co-opted to buy marvel comics with public money is a fair subject matter tho
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No.1068671
>>1068659
No one was ever writing about banning or censoring anything, except those which wanted to use this as a strawman to attack.
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No.1068677
>>1068671
<No one was ever writing about banning or censoring anything
>Ban: to prohibit the use, performance, or distribution of
>Censorship: the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient"
What you're advocating is the very definition of both a ban and censorship.
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No.1068678
>>1068654
>Did you check several of them or just sharing beliefs as they were facts.
I'm not the one pulling conspiracy theories out of my ass, so the onus is on you to prove that libraries are propping up low selling comics.
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No.1068682
>>1068677
Yeah, feel free to have the last word on this. People which aren't stupid will see the truth and I don't care about the rest.
>>1068678
I don't try to convince you, so I don't care. Everyone interested in it, has now read about the idea and they will be reminded. It's gonna happen sooner or later if there is a need and a way to do something.
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No.1074305
>>1039608
If you didn't know Constantine is a fag then I don't know how you can claim to even be a fan of him. He's been bi for fuckin decades.
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