No.1039594 [View All]
I've been out of comics for several years (2010ish) due to how shit it was getting. How the fuck did it get so bad? There's no art. Nobody is drawing anything. It's all 3d sketch up backgrounds and even traced people. The coloring is the big blob of shit. Everything is flat angles - just straight on shots. There's no dynamic perspectives or action. Covers are all fucking portfolio pieces. They dont reflect whats happening in the issue - just random pose with a logo that could go on any cover. I'm going to post a bunch of examples of what I'm seeing for examples.
Look at these covers - what are the issues about? WTF is that Thor cover? You cant even tell what is happening - its just puked out colors and blobs. Who would pick that up and look at it? These are all covers that were just shit out and slapped on at random.
____________________________
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No.1058801
>>1054788
SJWs didn't just get into the industry because they wanted. All those elements created circumstances that made the industry easier to infiltrate.
>Comics Code
It set the precedent for censorship in the comics industry and creation of material that was very conformist. More importantly, Comics Code killed off a lot of DC's competition and let to the birth of Marvel. Many people who were willing to experiment, go against the grain, or unwilling to put up with restrictions on topics they can tell stories about left the industry. Less companies also meant les jobs in the industry.
>capefags
If people like Pat Dixon and Darwyn Cooke are to be believed, influx of fanboys into the industry is responsible for depriving non-cape comics of marketing, talent, and funding. Even more competent people left the industry, as did readership of westerns, military, marital-arts, and horror comics. Interesting note is that fandom of these genres in film, literature, and video games are often considered 'problematic.' From my anecdotal experience, first two genres are overwhelmingly more appealing to people with conservative views. Therefore, it is possible that capefags purged comic book industry from people that could put up resistance to SJWs.
>pandering to collector's market and comic book shops
Comic book shops and collectors are more commonly found in large urban areas which also tend to lean left. Rural areas tend to lean right, and people over there were more reliant on the news stands and convenience stores to get their comics. That excluded big portions of the conservative readership, meaning less conservative people had exposure to comics, and thus less conservative people were driven to enter the comics industry.
>short term profit obsession
>gimmicks
All-New All-Different Marvel thing happened because Marvel was obsessed with gimmicks and trend chasing. Someone simply pointed at Twitter and Tumblr and convinced Ike that both sites represent modern youth and current hip trends, and that's where the audience is. Marvel's management being incompetent morons or people who use these sites nodded their heads and let that shit happen. Same thing happened with DC few years prior two when Marvel did it.
Of course, they only thought about the short term, and did not consider whether these direction will be relevant in the future, how they will affect existing audience, and whether new reader will stick around at all.
>controversies
Above caused controversies, which in eyes of the big two are good. After all, controversy = free marketing = more people buying comics. In fact, why not make more SJW books? They will generate even more controversy, so even more people will get the books.
>bad treatment of creators
This shit drives out talented people who want livable wages. Ones willing to work for shitty pay that big two offer either do it for the love of the medium, because they can't work elsewhere, or because they get some extra benefit. SJWs are willing to work for shitty money since they usually have limited career prospects anyway, and extra perk from creating comics is a platform to preach their political views.
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No.1058810
>>1058801
>SJWs are to blame for everything
Ah, the casuals have returned.
Instead of taking apart your entire post, all I'm going to say is
>comics are a low class medium created by the children of poor immigrants who couldn't get work in more established media
and
>the Comics Code was a response to the 1950s Great Comic Book Scare, a rural conservative panic caused by the changes in society following World War 2
I think that should cover your "conservatives in comics" argument.
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No.1058866
>>1041251
You should provide sources and more examples. Some of us don't really read many Western comics, so we don't know why Liefeld and McFarlane are worse than those before, or why that example you gave here >>1041252 is bad exactly. Also, I'm surprised there are as many newer fans as there are old jaded ones, as you claim.
While Marxist philosophy and capitalism are both factors into this decline, there is more to it, but anyway.
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No.1058867
>>1058810
Why sah-gay, and who are you quoting? Please pick apart his entire argument if you can, because otherwise you're just shitting out an opinion as if this were some normalfaggot social media. If you have a good argument, then share, so we can all improve.
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No.1058871
>>1058810
>SJWs write shitty stories
>somehow SJWs aren't to blame for the shitty stories they write
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No.1058905
>>1045340
Video games. In the mid 90s studios and content creators collectively decided that games weren’t going anywhere and that making stuff for men and boys was no longer sustainable with games diverting so much of the male entertainment dollar. So violence and titties and all things masculine were displaced by grrl power and female-friendly franchises — Buffy, Xena, Harry Potter, X-Files, etc. Girls who grew up with the latter now are now shitting up everything.
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No.1058959
>>1058871
they are comic books, what do you expect, the next american novel ?
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No.1058978
>>1058905
They made Buffy and Xena to appeal to men with lesbos and titties but they "accidentally" brainwashed developing male brains into being trannies
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No.1059125
>>1058959
>haha, why the hell would anyone care about comics on board called "/co/ - Comics & Cartoons"?
Do me a fucking favor and kill yourself so I never have to suffer through reading another one of your shitposts ever again.
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No.1065087
Big culprit is that many people drawing comics do not understand visual storytelling. Too many artists grew up reading big two comics. Art in them was generally bad since late 80s and early 90s, and it only got worse as time went on. As a result, all most modern artists and readers know are boring talking heads and stiff, silly fights. To make things worse, many artists picked up some techniques from film and television, which do not work well in comics. Biggest offenders are shot-reverse-shot and long takes. Both of these approaches facilitate reuse of art with only minimal changes which makes these techniques easy to apply.
Look at this page from Saga. Same image of the cat is reused three times in a row. Next are two panels with slight modifications. Background is identical across every panel. Girl's legs are reused on 4 panels, and torso is only very slightly modified. Only thing that actually changes is her head. This looks lazy and could can be fixed with little effort. Establishing panel and the last one could stay as they are. Other panels could vary angles from which readers see the character. For example, when girl is staring off in the distance, reader's POV could be from the spot she is looking at. Fourth panel would be more effective if there would be a close up on girl's face, and 'lying' could come from off screen. It would be even more effective if its background was solid black to contrast the revelation with idyllic background. Different shape of that panel would achieve similar thing. We do not really need to see the cat in every panel - cat does not change its position or expression from ones already established in the first panel.
Overall, this this is something that works well in film or TV, but looks boring in a comic. And yet, people regard this as some of the best art in American comics. They do not notice blatant copy pasting and poor visual storytelling.
Things would not be so bad if artists would think about what they draw and put some effort into understanding the medium. You can learn a lot just by reading old comics, niche books like Asterios Polyp, some decent manga, and European books. When you read, put yourself in artists' shoes and ask why they drew things this way instead of another. That's all it takes to get a grasp on visual storytelling, but apparently it's too much to ask for today.
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No.1068185
>>1039761
>A lot of what you're criticizing has been the art, but honestly, a good story can save bad art. And the stories are shit, because SJWs can't write for shit, all they care about is pushing retarded propaganda that nobody else believes in.
Comics are a visual medium. Art is the primary component through which story is conveyed. It communicates actions, descriptions, and settings. Dialogues are secondary. Bad art can undermine what's written, and make the book incomprehensible in extreme cases.
Look at last panel in third image in >>1039598. It is a pretty entry level joke, but it would be much better if that panel was made into two. Current panel should have only the first two speech balloons. Third speech balloon should get a new panel with character being a surprised or puzzled. This is a small change, which would make the joke work better on the page and improve comic's pacing.
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No.1068186
>>1068185
Anon why are you responding to 7 month old posts?
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No.1068196
>>1039764
remind me what that show is called?
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No.1068200
>>1068196
Its called "Capitalize your damn letters summerfag" the television program.
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No.1068316
Everyones too busy bitching about big publications and the leftist hacks that populate it on the internet instead of actually picking up some digital tools, partnering up and drawing/writing some good shit while publishing it via the internet they merely use to bitch and moan.
Drawing and writing is some of the easiest forms of entertainment one can make, it takes much less resources than something like movies or videogames which is still very much attainable without a budget.
SO GET TO IT YOU FUCKING FAGGOT, YOU'RE THE NEW GENERATION GET TO WORK AND CREATE, SHILL AND SELL SOMETHING YOU LIKE AND WANT TO SEE OTHER PEOPLE ENJOY
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No.1068545
>>1068185
If your problem with "West Coast Avengers" is some of their paneling, you are everything that's wrong with comics.
It's literally the worst comic published since America.
Shitty paneling is irrelevant to everything else that makes it an abomination.
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No.1068548
I’ve been keeping up with Comicsgate for some time, mostly via Uncle Ethan, Ya Boi Zack, and some other YouTubers. A while back YBZ/Diversity and Comics did a video on a new SJW comics publisher, but rather than focusing his criticism on their SJW agenda, he attacked them for deciding to not publish superhero comics. I have seen some of the ongoing crowdfunding campaigns by creators in Comicsgate, and it is all superhero comics – I honestly couldn’t differentiate between the covers if they removed the title.
I think there is a lack of non-superhero comics being made by Comicsgate creators, and that they risk saturating the market very quickly. Are there any Comicsgate projects that are not done in the same Marvel Comics style with costumed superheroes?
As a European who grew up with Lee Falk’s The Phantom, Hergé’s The Adventures of Tintin, PKNA, the Donald Duck & Scrooge McDuck comics of Carl Barks, Don Rosa, and others, the Conan the Barbarian comics, and some of McFarlane’s early Spawn, I would like to see Comicsgate projects that don’t ape the cookie-cutter Marvel formula with superheroes, and explore other genres and art styles.
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No.1068556
>>1068548
>Are there any Comicsgate projects that are not done in the same Marvel Comics style with costumed superheroes?
Not really. Comicsgate is a conservative movement, which means they have traditional views on what comics are. Since the traditional view is that comics are mostly realistically rendered cape comics, then that is what they produce.
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No.1068557
>>1068548
At this point if you want wide variety you'll need to read manga. A lot of indie comics are superheroes, spies, or some horror.
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No.1068559
>>1068556
A conservative American movement then, with a focus on superheroes. I loved reading the reprints of the 1950s EC Comics horror stories growing up – especially the ones illustrated by Graham Ingels. It seems superheroes didn’t really take over till around the 1960s in the U.S.
Just imagine stories of high adventure, thrillers, horror, science fiction, etc., done in the narrative style and art style of Prince Valiant/Ingeniør Knut Berg…
>>1068557
I did read manga in my late teens/very early twenties – Love Hina, Death Note, and whatever was published in Shonen Jump. More recently I’ve thankfully discovered Junji Ito, and last summer I binge read everything he’s done.
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No.1068560
>>1068559
I recommend Vinland Saga, All You Need Is Kill, The Ghost & The Lady, To Your Eternity, & Golden Kamuy.
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No.1068563
>>1068548
What? Is this bait? A lot of comics on https://www.indiecron.com/ are about people with superpowers, but it isn't that much capes. Scroll though the descriptions.
>>1068556
The most fundamental value of Comicsgate seems to be: Don't be to political. Don't insult your customers when the hold other beliefs. They only produce some cape comics.
>>1068316
I agree, which websites are helpfull? I know about indiecron.com, indiegogo.com, and I found another website where it's possible to upload comics and get paid for the downloads, but I got banned for publishing the link to their startpage. I figure it was automatic, because there were to many people putting in links to their comics on that site. So I only want to mention that their are website where this can be done, though it's seems to be run by Japanese and therefore Manga and Anime centered (also Games).
On the topic of what to do about it: If you are American, please also contact the person responsible for the financing of libraries. It would be great if this could be cut down or regulated. SJW use them to get their comics sold (see video). People in other countries also should visit their libraries and look if they buy a lot of SJW comics to support them. If so, then report back please. I'll do so the next few days.
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No.1068566
>>1068563
<Don't be to political.
Except when it's politics to the right. Nobody in comicsgate raises a fuss about Alt-Hero or Chuck Dixon's adaptation of Clinton Cash.
<Don't insult your customers when the hold other beliefs.
Nice little insert to justify your victim complex, and like above, it's completely hypocritical. Comicsgate main form of "activism" is getting into fights on twitter and accusing people of everything from lying to pedophilia.
You are a condescending weasel. I know you're full of shit, you know you're full of shit, everyone on this board knows you're full of shit. Yet you continue to squirm around being all ambiguous as if we're all too stupid to see you're a shill. Insulting.
Also, your library plan is really fucking stupid and you have no idea how libraries work.
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No.1068576
>>1068566
Ask more and make less statements. What I wrote is what some people like EVS do. When others make political comics on the right it's their thing. As long as they don't claim to be Comicsgate, or at least not the standard comicsgater. Also, unlike the SJW in these big corps they are not the ones using established characters to promote their politics and insult everyone which disagrees with them. They are doing more or less the same thing, making themselves more independent. Just with the difference that they put more political stuff in their comics.
> Comicsgate main form of "activism" is getting into fights on twitter
Comicsgate is an idea, not one strictly organized group. I'm only watching videos on Youtube, about people making comics and promoting them. What some are doing on Youtube and if the fights are justified or whatever, I don't know about.
> being all ambiguous as if we're all too stupid to see you're a shill. Insulting.
Always the shill thingy, look it up what it means. I'm not working for someone claiming to be a happy customer. There even isn't a company I'm supporting, but different authors and projects.
>have no idea how libraries work
I don't know who is financing them in US, in other countries it's the government in some way. Even if not, then there are laws making the donations tax-deductible, and they can be changed, or not? That's why is was asking.
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No.1068578
>>1068576
>Ask more and make less statements.
>replies almost exclusively with statements
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No.1068583
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>1068578
Is this going anywhere. My statements are from someone watching Comicsgate videos, yours are just slurs, speculations and nonsense. Of course I'm not asking you about it, why would I? I know more about it than you. Feel free to point out where I'm wrong, anyways.
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No.1068586
>>1068583
>Comicsgate video
No one cares about your mentality retarded ecelebrities.
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No.1068592
>>1068583
I didn't know you were an expert on watching TV, Anon. Please excuse my disrespect.
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No.1068598
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>1068586
You are pretty much invested in fighting them, so you do care, or not?
>>1068592
Butthurt because you have no source for your accusations? Why has this to be a competition? I thought that's the big advantage of not having usernames. Just stop hating people which want to make independent comics. If you think they are better ones, tell everyone.
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No.1068603
>>1068598
>usernames
We've got a newfag here. A newfag whose first language isn't english.
You're also going to have to elaborate on what accusations you're talking about. Except if it's the accusation that you're a shill. That's not an accusation. It's a fact.
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No.1068607
>>1068576
>I don't know who is financing them in US, in other countries it's the government in some way. Even if not, then there are laws making the donations tax-deductible, and they can be changed, or not? That's why is was asking.
Wow. You've got some serious delusions of grandeur there, with the whole "destroying public institutions because of comics you don't like".
You could just submit a Formal Written Request for Reconsideration at your local library concerning a comic you don't like. All you have to do is write about how the comic is an SJW comic and why it needs to be banned. That'll start the time consuming Official Reconsideration Process where they determine if the book meets the libraries collection development policy. Your challenge will likely get reported to the American Library Association, and possibly the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund if they know about them. Then you'll finally get a letter in the mail telling you that they've denied your request because "fuck censorship".
If you still want the book banned, you can appeal the decision and have the fun of a public Challenge hearing where you can argue against the library's decision by stammering through a transcript of whatever crap Richard Meyer churned out that week.
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No.1068616
>>1068607
Or he spreads his idea to Republicans which are sharing the hate against SJW. Then someone changes the whole procedure on which they select comics. Or they cut the public support for libraries.
>"fuck censorship"
It's not censorship, it's about tax money being used to support comics with low sales.
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No.1068619
>>1068616
Comics that go into libraries are decided by the local library itself, and banning books from libraries would be a violation of the first amendment (Island Trees School District v. Pico).
Also, your premise that "libraries are propping up low selling comics" is fucking retarded. Libraries don't buy floppies, they buy graphic novels, and it's one or two of them at the most. How on earth you came to the conclusion that libraries were to blame is beyond me.
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No.1068620
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No.1068622
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>1068619
>>1068620
>Also, your premise that "libraries are propping up low selling comics" is fucking retarded.
Welcome to 🤡🌎 nigger
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No.1068623
>>1068619
>>1068620
Hey you know you can delete your posts right?
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No.1068624
>>1068622
>🤡🌎
>being this obvious
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No.1068625
>>1068624
<Whatever you do, don't respond, just say it is bait and pretend like you weren't wrong
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No.1068626
>>1068622
Are you actually using fucking emojis here and expect to be taken seriously?
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No.1068628
>>1068622
<IT'S TRUE CAUSE EVS TOLD ME
Ethan Van Schiver doesn't know shit from Shinola.
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No.1068638
>>1068598
>I thought that's the big advantage of not having usernames.
Usually the advantage is that you can't hold a grudge against someone for past conversations, but I guess that doesn't work when you think everyone talking to you is a single nonsensical hypocrite.
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No.1068646
>>1068545
It was just to illustrate how bad art can hinder writing. Bad art itself is a symptom of comics industry being filled by incompetent hacks. That is preset in both the creative and business parts of it.
>>1068583
>comicsgate
It's full of faggots and hypocrites, especially in most prominent positions. Van Scriver is the biggest one. If someone dares to criticize him, Ethan and his fans will not hesitate to harass and dox, just like certain other group on social media. Another issue are ecelebs who make bad comics, who overshadow people who make good comics but lack popularity. People like D&C should stay away from creating comics, and instead promote creators who make good ones. Unfortunately, D&C can't even do that, since his taste is shit. in fact, he tends to avoid good comics if they are foreign or are too dissimilar from Marvel and DC's offerings. Didn't people pay him money on Patreon to read and review Berserk, but he refused to do it?
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No.1068654
>>1068619
> banning books from libraries would be a violation of the first amendment
The problem is you are stupid and think you are smart. Where did I write about banning a specific book?
>Also, your premise that "libraries are propping up low selling comics" is fucking retarded.
Did you check several of them or just sharing beliefs as they were facts. If you don't know then don't make aggressive statements.
>Libraries don't buy floppies, they buy graphic novels, and it's one or two of them at the most.
If that's true, then what do you care about? Scared that we draw attention to that? Who is the shill here? Are you working for Marvel or DC?
> How on earth you came to the conclusion that libraries were to blame is beyond me.
Could just have asked about more information.
>>1068626
More distractions? Pathetic.
>>1068646
> If someone dares to criticize him, Ethan and his fans will not hesitate to harass and dox, just like certain other group on social media.
Oh yea this sound believable… NOT. You have proof that Ethan did this? Or is he responsible for every fan, if it even happened?
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No.1068659
>>1068654
>Where did I write about banning a specific book
You didn't, he was making a supporting point to the earlier statement in the paragraph, you illiterate nigger. Most of what you said is retarded and that is the easiest to point out.
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No.1068660
>>1068654
Libraries being co-opted to buy marvel comics with public money is a fair subject matter tho
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No.1068671
>>1068659
No one was ever writing about banning or censoring anything, except those which wanted to use this as a strawman to attack.
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No.1068677
>>1068671
<No one was ever writing about banning or censoring anything
>Ban: to prohibit the use, performance, or distribution of
>Censorship: the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient"
What you're advocating is the very definition of both a ban and censorship.
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No.1068678
>>1068654
>Did you check several of them or just sharing beliefs as they were facts.
I'm not the one pulling conspiracy theories out of my ass, so the onus is on you to prove that libraries are propping up low selling comics.
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No.1068682
>>1068677
Yeah, feel free to have the last word on this. People which aren't stupid will see the truth and I don't care about the rest.
>>1068678
I don't try to convince you, so I don't care. Everyone interested in it, has now read about the idea and they will be reminded. It's gonna happen sooner or later if there is a need and a way to do something.
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No.1074305
>>1039608
If you didn't know Constantine is a fag then I don't know how you can claim to even be a fan of him. He's been bi for fuckin decades.
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