afcee3 No.852481
What differences are there between the current catholic and lutheran teaching on salvation ?
They both affirm justification to be of God's Work and not of our works and also affirm sanctification to be of one of fruitful works and that one can choose to cooperate through our works or fall away from the faith (Synergism).
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5ef587 No.852488
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Lutherans believe in salvation by faith alone. Roman Catholics believe in initial salvation by faith, then keeping salvation at least in part by your works (oversimplification).
More exact language is that the rcc teaches one merits for ourselves the graces needed for eternal life.
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2010.htm
There has been a document called the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification but it compromised on Lutheran doctrine and used soft language for the catholic position. Vid related
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cf6e86 No.852490
>>852488
Please don't describe the Catholic faith as you get it horribly wrong.
Firefox says your link is toxic and blocked it. Perhaps you can summarize.
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5ef587 No.852493
>>852490
>2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life. Even temporal goods like health and friendship can be merited in accordance with God's wisdom. These graces and goods are the object of Christian prayer. Prayer attends to the grace we need for meritorious actions.
Here is the catechism on vatican.va, which doesn't support https apparently http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm
Tell me where I'm wrong
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000000 No.852504
>>852493
Novus Ordo is to Catholism what those LGBTQ+ "Protestant" religions are to conservative Protestantism.
Maybe a Novus Ordo bro can answer this. Not my Catechism.
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5ef587 No.852507
>>852504
Are you the one who told me I got it wrong? >>852490
What is your catechism and where do you disagree?
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8d80ff No.852513
>>852488
Lutherans also believe initial salvation to be of faith alone (Justification by faith alone) and believe that works are what keeps our salvation intact during the process of sanctification and that failing to cooperate will lead to damnation.
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d90ae5 No.852514
The thing about living human spirits is they absorb the traits of what's around them. It doesn't have anything to do with conscious persuasion either. It's just natural spiritual phenomena. It's why many modern Catholics and Protestants share the same beliefs after so many centuries of intermingling. The same thing is slowly happening with Christians and religious jews merging into Republicanism. Maybe a thousand years ago a jew would ardently reject use of Logos but now you see jews using actual logic in their persuasion sometimes, and pure vitriolic pathos now being the signature weapon of bureaucratic megacorps, governments, and democrats instead. That's not to say any Catholics reading this should trust Protestants or jews now, rather we should be less trustful of even other Catholics in this current lukewarm age and understand appearances might not be what they seem.
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5ef587 No.852515
>>852513
I don't think that's true but there's probably diversity among Lutherans
Augsburg confession article 12
<They condemn the Anabaptists, who deny that those once justified can lose the Holy Ghost. Also those who contend that some may attain to such perfection in this life that they cannot sin. The Novatians also are condemned, who would not absolve such as had fallen after Baptism, though they returned to repentance. They also are rejected who do not teach that remission of sins comes through faith but command us to merit grace through satisfactions of our own.
When it says "they" its referring to "our churches"
In any case rejecting OSAS like Wesleyans doesn't mean believing works merit salvation
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8d80ff No.852516
>>852515
Ah that makes sense, thanks.
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000000 No.852525
Before I knew that the Remnant remained and that the Latin Mass per the council of Trent was still being said, I studied Lutheranism for a bit.
Can't say I'm an expert on it. Don't care anymore because it's pollution.
I've yet to meet a protestant who could accurately state what the Catholic faith says on salvation.
To be honest, many Catholics get it wrong too.
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5ef587 No.852530
>>852525
I'm still here if you want to answer
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