/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>851118

The faith is the same be it FSSP, SSPX or the SSPV (sedes).

What differs is an opinion of the validity of the papacy of Pope Francis, and how to deal with it.

Catholic is the faith. All believe that a valid Pope is infallible on faith and morals when he speaks from the office.

The question is, can a Pope drag a pagan idol which has had children sacrificed to it before the alter of God. Some say sinful Pope, some say heretic separated from the Church. All have some merit and there are still things unknown.

>>851122

Okay but if you believe apostolic succession and thus papal infallibility can fail, why even take it as far as the thoroughly conflicting ideas of the first-4th century fathers with the likes of Augustine and Anselm? Shouldn't inspiration have a tapering effect? Wouldn't that be evidenced by a lack of concordance in what the universal church leaders believe?

>>851118

since they're new to the faith they're easily led estray, if they acquired the sensus fidelium they'd realise that sedevacantism isnt catholic.

>>851139

The Catholic Church has had forty-one antipopes through its history, an antipope being an uncanonically elected “Pope”. The Catholic Church has infallibly taught that a heretic cannot be a true Pope. For a Pope is a member of the Church and its visible head, but a heretic places himself outside the Church by his choice and thus ceases to be a member of the Church. Hence, a heretic cannot be a true Pope. The Code of Canon Law, Pope Paul IV, St. Francis de Sales, St. Alphonsus and St. Robert Bellarmine all take this same line of argument, and hence teach that a heretic cannot be a true Pope.

To wit, if a true Pope were to become a manifest heretic then he would cease to be the Pope. This teaching is rooted in the infallible dogma that a heretic is not a Catholic, and is not a member of the Church. Now when he [the Pope] is explicitly a heretic, writes St. Francis de Sales, he falls ipso facto from his dignity and out of the Church. St. Antoninus agrees: In the case in which the Pope would become a heretic, he would find himself by that fact alone and without any other sentence, separated from the Church. He could not be a heretic and remain Pope. Pope Paul IV the taught the same in his Cum ex apostolatus officio, that no Catholic may accept a person as a pope who can be shown to be a heretic. The Marian Apparition at Fátima on 13th May, the feast day of St. Robert Bellarmine, may have been an indication of Our Lady to consider the statements of St. Robert Bellarmine, especially those on the subject of heretical popes. Per St. Robert Bellarmine: A pope who is a manifest heretic automatically ceases to be Pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and a member of the Church. Wherefore, he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the teaching of all the ancient Fathers who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction. And elsewhere: …he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Jerome and others; therefore the manifest heretic cannot be Pope.

Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi

>For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy.

Pope Innocent III, Eius exemplo

>By the heart we believe and by the mouth we confess the one Church, not of heretics, but the Holy Roman, Catholic, and Apostolic Church outside of which we believe that no one is saved.

And how do we judge that a person is a heretic St. Robert Bellarmine reasons: For men are not bound or able to read hearts, but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple, and condemn him as a heretic.

>>851118

The true and only theologically consistent position – the Catholic position – is that all of the Vatican II claimants to the Papacy are antipopes, the Chair of St. Peter is vacant and the Second Vatican Council is heretical and to be rejected.

>>851118

People dont want crosses. A new convert is usually full of zeal and wonder for finally having arrived home and so the shock of having a non ideal pope can be daunting. They rather pretend the cross away.

They'd hear Peter denying Christ 3 times and say the seat is vacant.

They'd see Peter ashamed of being seen dinning with gentiles and say the seat is vacant.

For having a better pope we need better Christians, then they'd be majority in the councils and a good pope would win. But we are one of the worst generations of Christians ever so we dont really deserve an heroic pope.

So those who have the free grace of being able to see how bad things are are to endure the cross and sanctify themselves and those they have contact with.

>>851183

I have also realized the problems in the Church, and personally the sins of the world offend me SO MUCH, I would like to….maybe join a monastery, because I am TERRIFIED… of being lukewarm and tepid. I have autism and find people….taxing. Today I was in the hospital and it was busy and I was obsessed with the idea of scaring people so that they would stay away from me. I fear my fellow man because my fellow man has more often than not apostatized. I want to go to a TLM but the nearest is few towns away and I can't drive. They won't let me take communion on the tongue at my NO parish. ( I know sedes will bark, but it is the best I have)

But what about a Maronite mass? There is one in my town. someone could maybe take me. But I am scared, because it is strange and new for me. I am blind as a bat and have no one to guide me.