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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: 0ee6730b9f523ae⋯.jpg (436.18 KB, 1324x2048, 331:512, 8bb73342be9cff691e5d962afe….jpg)

4d5a13  No.850756

John 5:28-29 "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Romans 2:5-6 "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:"

John 1:11 "Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God."

Faith alone is a false doctrine. We are saved by faith but your actions are proof of your faith.

God commands us to do good deeds, so do them; Not just for your own spiritual sake but so His glory can be known to the non-believers.

____________________________
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1294e0  No.850758

File: d15478e9cb55310⋯.png (644.11 KB, 640x480, 4:3, martin_luther_protestant.png)

As usual you're criticism antinomianism, not sola fide which is justification by faith alone

Nothing you said or cited comes into conflict with sola fide at all

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4d5a13  No.850760

>>850758

>Faith is a work of God in us, which changes us and brings us to birth anew from God.

Is there a biblical basis for this?

Also, if this were true, why would God bother giving us commands to follow? If faith is some sort of transformative force that comes from outside of ourselves, then there wouldn't be anything we could do to be better followers of God.

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1294e0  No.850761

>>850760

He's saying what you said in different words

You are saved by faith and your actions are proof of your faith

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1294e0  No.850762

>>850758

You're criticizing*

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4c7149  No.850767

>>850756

>Faith alone is a false doctrine. We are saved by faith but your actions are proof of your faith.

If you have real faith that Jesus is Our Lord (means you obey him) and Our God (means you owe him everything) you'd think they'd obey what Jesus asks and try and stop sinning and would go to his church.

They cry faith, but they don't have faith.

>God commands us to do good deeds, so do them; Not just for your own spiritual sake but so His glory can be known to the non-believers.

Really this. How can folks accept Jesus as "Lord" and then disregard him? How can they they have faith Jesus is God, and then say they don't need to do as he asks. Some protestants even claim doing what Jesus asked us to do, good works, is a sin!

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1294e0  No.850772

>>850767

>Some protestants even claim doing what Jesus asked us to do, good works, is a sin!

Who are you referring to?

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3d1bca  No.850780

>>850760

Whenever Christ says "your faith has healed you".

We increasingly struggle to align our will with the Father's, to accept his ever increasing grace in us.

>>850761

Proving to whom?

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4c7149  No.850782

>>850772

I was thinking Calvanist, but I got this hit as well: "

"Good works are bad and are sin like the rest" Martin Luther.

https://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2010/08/luther-good-works-are-bad-and-are-sin.html

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1294e0  No.850785

>>850782

are you aware you just linked a blog debunking that as a myth?

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1294e0  No.850786

>>850780

anyone. yourself, your church, the lord. I just used the same terminology as OP.

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62759f  No.850788

>>850756

Why did you post that image and summon Dad? I'm just curious about why you wanted to draw His attention here. That's not something you should do flippantly.

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54d551  No.850792

>>850756

>We are saved by faith

Exactly, by grace through faith.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

- Ephesians 2:8-9

>God commands us to do good deeds, so do them

Good advice. The people of God should gladly keep his word.

>why would God bother giving us commands to follow?

Anything God commands becomes possible to those who believe and are saved. For with men these things are impossible, but with God, all things are possible.

>If faith is some sort of transformative force that comes from outside of ourselves, then there wouldn't be anything we could do to be better followers of God.

It says in Philippians 2:13 "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." So then the credit belongs to God for anything good that is accomplished. I don't want to claim those good things which I see happening as from myself, because I would rather in a thankful manner recognize they come from God.

>>850767

>They cry faith, but they don't have faith.

Who is they? Are you including me and you in that group, and if so, have you removed the plank from your own eye first? Do you know people who are perfect other than Christ? Do you think these teachings originate from "them" or from Christ? Because if they originate from Christ, then you should believe the words of Scripture which are inspired by the Holy Spirit as Paul says, regardless of who says them. As I quoted above from Ephesians, we are saved by grace through faith, it truly is the gift of God.

If you have a problem with false professors claiming to be saved in this manner, it does not negate the fact God said what He said. So I believe what the Scripture says while recognizing there are false professors who God will be dealing with in the end, and that I have problems just as I am not perfect, but only Christ is. Good works are to be promoted, but trusting in the self for salvation through works is not to be promoted because it is false religion. As taught throughout Scripture, it is getting people to trust in themselves rather than realizing their imperfection and believing in the Lord's power. This makes things possible, but the person has to acknowledge their own limitedness, the fact they have repented from trying to save themselves and cannot take credit for things that are the glory of God alone.

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4c7149  No.850807

File: d79a6f122d54897⋯.jpg (164.69 KB, 850x720, 85:72, Jesus_and_those_who_cry_ma….jpg)

>>850792

>wears the shoe of the faithless who cry in faith, calls me a hypocrite.

Actually, that there are those who cry faith and don't really have faith is right out of scripture.

Figures a baptist would accuse me of hypocrisy for paraphrasing the Bible.

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1294e0  No.850818

>>850807

>>850782

Are you ignoring my post on purpose?

You literally linked something that disproves your point

Why do you hate protestants so much that you feel the need to tell lies on an anonymous imageboard?

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4c7149  No.850824

>>850818

>Are you ignoring my post on purpose?

Not really ignoring it,Yesterday was friday and perfect for your red herring fallacy.

>You literally linked something that disproves your point

I said I thought it was Calvanist who rejected good works. I learned that from the protestants here. I was amazed that the first link was about Lutherans. I didn't really read it because I don't really care much about protestants; they're not honest in their reading of the bible and act illogically.

>Why do you hate protestants so much that you feel the need to tell lies on an anonymous imageboard?

Kvetch more.

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1294e0  No.850850

>>850824

You and I both know you're the same guy who whines that Protestants simply hate catholics.

Its Calvinists. You've made the error twice.

Calvinists are stereotypically legalists. Think of the puritans.

Luther wrote at length against antinomianism.

Why are you making accusations when you don't know what you're talking about?

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79a167  No.850851

>>850850

I don't know why he does it. Perhaps its like the parrot syndrome, where you keep saying the same lines very robotically and hoping that by doing this one day they will come true? I don't know. It seems we have got a lot of that going on in general lately. I mean that way of thinking, where you just keep on accusing and doubling down and thinking if I accuse enough times, maybe the weight of that alone will do something. Sort of like what the Democrat party is doing. Maybe, he thinks that's how things should be done after all.

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1294e0  No.850853

>>850851

Its very frustrating.

Also isn't kvetch literally a Jewish term?

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4c7149  No.850856

File: bb148a40e9382b6⋯.png (15.82 KB, 737x195, 737:195, Screenshot_2020_12_13_kvet….png)

>>850850

>My fallacy fallacy.

Cling to it.

>>850851

>Gossip.

I forgive you.

>>850853

>kvetch.

Yes, it's Yiddish.

I used it because it fits the petty little complaining that butters the bread of the fallacy fallacy.

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1294e0  No.850857

>>850856

Let's start over. What single protestant can you cite arguing that to do good works is sin?

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3e24c3  No.850861

Maybe it's just be, but this seems like an easy answer. Just read Romans 10, I think it's made most clear there. Also Romans 3, especially verses 21-26

Also if we are not saved by faith, then to what point is works required for salvation? Are we now back under the law where we must sacrifice to cover our sins? I do not disagree that "…you will know them by their fruits…", but works will never be enough for God as "…Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:"

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4c7149  No.850878

>>850857

>Let's start over. What single protestant can you cite arguing that to do good works is sin?

I'll cite Anon 3e24c3 in post >>850861

Hope this helps.

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1294e0  No.850880

>>850878

You're mistaken. That is not what he is saying at all.

You also made the claim before that post, can you cite anyone? Maybe a theologian?

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4c7149  No.850891

>>850880

>No!!! I won't use google!! You must due it for me and tell me about protestantism

https://calvinistinternational.com/2016/02/04/good-works/

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1294e0  No.850893

>>850891

Interesting how you're really reaching for obscure blog posts to make your argument, and trying to insult me for just asking you to support what you said

Yes, anything not done in faith is sin. Whether the good works of unregenerate men is sin is a reasonable debate from this doctrine, but this again is not what you said in the first place.

I won't press it any further. You're obstinate and rude, unwilling to engage in any civil dialogue. If we had more quality posters here I would almost he glad that you would he here acting as such a deterrent to roman catholicism with bitter posts like yours.

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3d1bca  No.850895

>>850786

What good could these proofs do?

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1294e0  No.850900

>>850895

What good are fruits of the spirit? Good works have inherent value, they also edify the brethren and help us see who is spirit filled and who is tares among the wheat.

Do you see an issue? This is just how James and Paul talk about works

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54d551  No.850902

>>850895

>"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:"

- 2 Corinthians 4:3

Read James 2:15-16 sometime. That whole passage (James 2:14-26) is about justification before other men, in order that they might be edified and saved thereby. The good is that others will see the existence of faith and be saved.

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7dd76d  No.850912

File: d213a77ddc5576b⋯.png (34.55 KB, 647x559, 647:559, _Faith_Alone_Verses.png)

>John 5:28-29

I'll admit I'm not sure about this one. But literally four verses before

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

>Romans 2:5-6

Read the next two chapters

https://youtu.be/cYjME-eEBl8

No one follows the law, we all come short

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

>John 1:11

10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

11 Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

Seems to be talking about false prophets

But with you're interpretation of it it seems like you would then be saying that David and Moses haven't seen God because they murdered someone

>We are saved by faith but your actions are proof of your faith.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

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54d551  No.850928

File: 9bee910ba974150⋯.gif (704.8 KB, 200x200, 1:1, 1606424694166.gif)

>>850912

>I'll admit I'm not sure about this one.

There are two responses for this. First is that the righteousness of man is never sufficient for salvation. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. Who then shall be saved? With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

Hence, the first response to this is that Jesus Christ is the mediator for all those that believe, and God will not judge our sin simply because we are justified by faith rather than the law. In place of our imperfection we are given Christ's righteousness.

2 Corinthians 5:

>21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 John 2:

>1 And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

The second response is that through the ordinance of God, anyone who is saved will also end up doing good works. This is because of scripture like the following:

Romans 8:

>29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Philippians 1:

>6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2:

>12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

>13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

And it is good that this happens because doing good works will help other people become saved. As the the Savior Jesus Christ told us here:

Matthew 5:

>16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

1 Peter 2:

>12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

Matthew 7:

>20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

James 2:

>14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

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