23bfc8 No.850723
Why do you believe humans are exempt from determinism?
Why do you believe you can work up the strength on your own to resist sin?
Why are you Pelagians?
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b718bd No.850726
>Why do you believe God can create paradoxes?
I don't, God is supremely logical
>Why do you believe humans are exempt from determinism?
Because scripture indicates man has free will
>Why do you believe you can work up the strength on your own to resist sin?
Because scripture supposes resisting sin is an act of will, though coupled with divine grace which enables putting away sin
>Why are you Pelagians?
Im not. Practically nobody is
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23bfc8 No.850727
>>850726
>Because scripture supposes resisting sin is an act of will, though coupled with divine grace which enables putting away sin
That's fine, as long as you don't believe you can do it without God's grace.
>Im not. Practically nobody is
You are. If you believe an indeterministic interpretation of free will you're a pelagian. If free will truly were arbitrary then you wouldn't need God's grace, hence it is pelagianism.
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b718bd No.850728
>>850727
Considering determinism and free will are incompatible you've made everyone besides hypercalvinists into pelagians, and that's not even what pelagianiam means. Pelagianism is an error of misunderstanding original sin such that all have not necessarily sinned and so fall short of the glory of God
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83a0a7 No.850729
>>850723
>Why do you believe humans are exempt from determinism?
Because the Catholic Church says they are.
Besides, Quantum Mechanics killed the idea of a deterministic universe, now that I think about it. It's all probabilities and those probabilities are manipulated by the hand of God and our own free will.
>Why do you believe you can work up the strength on your own to resist sin?
I don't because the Catholic Church says I can't on my own and must pray for grace.
>Why are you Pelagians?
Ah! You must be baiting the Protestant bros.
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23bfc8 No.850733
>>850728
>Considering determinism and free will are incompatible
That's a bold lie. St. Augustine and St. Thomas knew better. Perhaps you should read them.
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23bfc8 No.850734
>>850729
You're fine, except you misunderstand QM. The universe is deterministic. The randomness comes from our measurements not the universe. Also that "QM is indeterministic" meme comes from new age heresy. I suggest you remove yourself from that danger and forget all the lies they told you.
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b718bd No.850735
>>850733
CS Lewis knew better. Perhaps you should evaluate any argument on it's own merit not appeal to authority.
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23bfc8 No.850737
>>850735
Lewis just misunderstood the definition of free will. It was historically accepted as the ability to choose to listen to logic and reason over base instincts, not arbitrary freedom from the consequences of cause and effect.
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b0f849 No.850742
>>850723
Depends on what you mean by determinism.
I don't.
I'm not.
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97cbbd No.850747
>why do you believe God can create paradoxes?
When God commands, the order of nature follows. He spoke the logoi.
Here is a paradox for you: how many times did God have to make the Sun rise over the horizon for fallen Adam call it natural, logical, necessary, and determined? How many times must God do something for man to say he is not master of fate it but that all is determined?
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83a0a7 No.850751
>>850734
>except you misunderstand QM. The universe is deterministic.
QM is by it's nature probabilistic and the misnamed "wave function" isn't a wave at all, but a probability distribution of finding the particle if a measurement is made.
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d0e100 No.850996
>>850723
God is not held by any force or law, not even the laws of logic. God can create paradoxes, he simply tends not to because he is a God of order not confusion.
>>850723
>Why do you believe you can work up the strength on your own to resist sin?
Because God commands me to do so and God does not expect more from me than I can handle.
>>850723
>Why are you Pelagians?
Because you have redefined the word pelagian to mean something it doesn't.
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495655 No.851024
>>850747
>How many times must God do something for man to say he is not master of fate it but that all is determined?
That's a silly question since it's God Himself who predetermined the path the universe will take.
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495655 No.851025
>>850751
That's because of our instruments. You can either perfectly read velocity or location, but not both at the same time. If you try to do that there's probability involved because our instruments can't measure both perfectly at the same time. The timeline is completely and permanently static forever and that is God's will.
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495655 No.851026
>>850996
>he simply tends not to
He doesn't "tend" not to. He outright refuses to because He considers it unjust.
>Because God commands me to do so
You cannot resist sin on your own. You NEED God's grace or else you are destined to fail.
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d0e100 No.851044
>>851026
>You cannot resist sin on your own. You NEED God's grace or else you are destined to fail.
Oh well, I guess there's no point in following God's commands. Thanks for clearing that up, gonna go do something degenerate now.
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21881e No.851149
God is omnipotent bruh he can do things without being necessarily bounded by the things he create.
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bd38ce No.851150
>>851044
This is a deliberate misread of what he said
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2a11a9 No.851152
>>850723
>God can do whatever he wants
>as long as I can fit it in my puny brain
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2a11a9 No.851153
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>850733
Augustine is like one of the first guys you can point to him and say, his theology is an island to itself. Nobody came to the same conclusions independently and he went against the concordance of the early church. Post-Nicene 'fathers' are trash.
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05e40a No.851222
>>850735
>CS Lewis knew better than Augustine
bait
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97cbbd No.851225
>>851024
If there were a philosopher who said God commanded only once and vanished from Being, how would your faith differ from it?
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8a7cb7 No.851229
>>851225
More Jesus and antisemitism. Also free God food on Sundays.
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