Manichean influence on original sin and double predestination in the west.

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Manichean influence on original sin and double predestination in the west. † 12/08/20 (Tue) 19:24:27 78a0b7 No.850648

Western Christianity is an extension of Augustinianism, concepts like original guilt and double predestination are Augustinian in origin and directly come from Manicheanism.

>"In Manichaeism, Primeval Man (the first human) used free will to abandon his position in the realm of light and went down into matter and darkness. Escape then became impossible…. Mani invented Manichaeism to be a syncretistic (a combined) religion for all persons worldwide by combining Judaism and Buddhism, then adding Christianity…Mani also borrowed the concept of humanity's total inability to respond to God from the ancient Indo-Mesopotamian Maitrāyana Upanishad IV. This work describes humans as robbed of freedom, imprisoned, drugged by delusion, and in deepest darkness. "He awakens Adam from the sleep of death, shakes him, opens his eyes, raises him up, exorcises demons to free him of demon possession, shows him all of imprisoned [physical] matter and suffering light soul. The Redeemer commands (an awakening from drunken slumber) and then gives what he commanded by granting grace (in order to gaze upon deity): "The Redeemer, the just Zoroaster, spake thus with his soul: 'Deep is the drunkenness in which thou slumberest, awake and gaze upon me! Grace upon thee from the world of peace whence for thy sake I am sent.'" (M.7.82–118, Mir. M. III, p.27).

>Foundations of Augustinian Calvinism, pg 24

>Fortunatus the Manichaean also cited John 14:6 to prove unilateral determinism, "No one can come to the Father except through me," since "He chose souls worthy of himself for his own holy will … and were imbued with a faith" (Against Fortunatus the Manichaean 3). Augustine defended the Christian view by mocking the Manichaean god: "corrupted and worn out I have lost my free choice. You know the necessity that has pressed me down. Why do you blame me for the wounds I received?" (cf., Sermons 12.5, 100.3). Augustine does not cite these verses until after 412 CE when he uses the Manichaean interpretations to prove his new total inability/incapacity for human faith (Grace and Fee Will 10, Against the Two Letters of the Pelagians 4.13–16, ep.186.38).

>Foundations of Augustinian Calvinism, pg 56

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† 12/08/20 (Tue) 20:18:38 41101f No.850650

Finally, thank you. Someone agrees.

I heard an interview of the author on Leighton Flowers' podcast a year ago. Did you find the book compelling?

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† 12/08/20 (Tue) 20:51:54 68321b No.850654

I agree with Manicheanism, but I disagree Augustine is the main source.

I'd point to Catharism instead and how crypto-cathars of knightly romance infiltrated the Roman Catholics via Francis of Assisi and other figures.

>As a youth Francis was greatly enamored by the French troubadour poets and their love songs about courtly women and great knights. He was known to sing troubadour songs in French and to aspire to knighthood and "courtly love," especially as depicted in Arthurian legends.

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† 12/09/20 (Wed) 03:33:54 363152 No.850659

File: 7e4337b3ee20f44⋯.png (694.58 KB, 662x583, 662:583, 7d7dac958.png)

>>850648

If you look at the later ideas of Judaism, Kabbalah etc. you will notice that it is based on Manichaeism. For instance, the babylonian Talmud draws on gnostic literature like the Book of Giants, written by Mani. This then filtered down into the so-called "Christian kabbalah" that was studied and proffered by Roman Catholic churchmen like Marsilio Ficino, Giovanni pico della Mirandola, Johannes Reuchlin, and Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa. These men wrote a large amount of "occult" literature, including copies of the Talmud itself as well as other apocrypha, during the same time in which the Holy Bible was banned from being printed, its translators being in some cases betrayed and executed as martyrs.

Nowadays, we see more and more that Judaism, institutional Catholicism and other satellite groups are promoting the same ways of thinking. As early as in 1987, The pope "praised Jews as ‘Our Elder Brothers in the Faith’ " Although as I've detailed, the commixture goes back much further. Another false concept that both hold in common is the teaching of "purgatory," a concept popularized by Mani during the days of widespread Manichaeism. Which he in turn drew from ancient Persian false religion, namely Zoroaster in particular.

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† 12/09/20 (Wed) 04:27:39 a274b8 No.850662

>>850648

So are you going to openly admit to being Pelagian heretics now? You're openly attacking St. Augustine. It's not like you can get much explicitly less Christian.

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† 12/09/20 (Wed) 16:19:54 833bed No.850701

>>850662

>implying roman catholics aren't pelagians

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† 12/09/20 (Wed) 18:22:38 9892ea No.850707

>>850648

Catholicism doesn't believe in inherited guilt if that's what you're aiming at nor double predestination, even if Augustine believes those things it's irrelevant.

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† 01/12/21 (Tue) 22:53:14 925e58 No.851982

>>850648

>dude, reading the Bible is Manichaeism and stuff

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† 01/13/21 (Wed) 07:37:14 a83753 No.851999

File: 891520da1ef9696⋯.jpg (12.79 KB, 208x243, 208:243, 1574596254523.jpg)

what is it with 5 point Calvinists and accusing everyone else of being Pelagian.

That we don't believe God predestines people to the lake of fire doesn't mean we don't believe it is solely God's grace and movement that saves. The key is in the nuances.

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† 01/13/21 (Wed) 07:37:59 a83753 No.852000

>>851999

forgot flair sorry.

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† 01/13/21 (Wed) 15:20:35 9cc656 No.852007

>>852000

>flair

Leave

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† 01/13/21 (Wed) 22:12:21 8eca43 No.852012

>/christian/

>Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>just Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants calling each other either pagans or Jews

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† 01/15/21 (Fri) 12:45:16 d5879d No.852103

>>850662

>if you don't believe every word of a 5th century Algerian that was a former Manichaeist who is only relevant to papists, you're not Christian

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