/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>849776

Technically, you're right. Although I wouldn't say Luther and Calvin were all that different. I put them under the category of Continental Reformation. Anabaptists were the Radical Reformation, and even Luther had a hard time with them. Then there's the English Reformation. This is the one that is most misunderstood and falsely associated with Calvin or Luther, I think. It didn't start with King Henry. You could rewind it further back than any other Reformed movement, all the way to Wycliffe in the 1300s. Technically, his group were still Catholic, but the notion of emphasizing scripture and stripping excess rituals started with them. You could also say that the Catholic Humanists (like Erasmus) had an impact on all of Europe too. These were Catholics who also emphasized scripture over the excess ritual at the time. Unfortunately, they didn't have much of an impact on Catholicism itself.

Because the doctrines of grace are a fundamental part of the Reformed tradition.

>Also, aren't the Anabaptists and Arminians also technically Reformed non-Calvinists?

No

>>849776

>Why is Reformed Christianity always equated with Calvinism?

Because the new calvinist movement tries to retcon "reformed" as meaning "calvinist"

>Didn't the Reformed tradition start before Calvin with Zwingli?

Yes. In a historical context we refer Lutherans as reformed. Luther was a reformer after all.

Here's an example of that use of "reformed"

https://www.5minutesinchurchhistory.com/the-icelandic-reformation/

>Also, aren't the Anabaptists and Arminians also technically Reformed non-Calvinists?

Anabaptists are typically classified as part of the radical Reformation

Armenians are reformed full stop. The remonstrant brotherhood of Holland was a charter member of the world alliance of reformed churches.

>>849798

Good example of calvinist retconning

>>849799

Arminians*

>>849799

Wrong.

>>849803

Prove it

>>849799

I always just thought of the Reformed as that Protestantism that developed separately from Lutheranism and Anglicanism, although the English Church did become Reformed as we see in the 39 articles of faith, though there is still a large Anglo-Catholic tradition within the English Church. Luther did seek a reformation, but Zwingli developed his theology independently of Luther and out of his movement came the break away Swiss Brethren (the first Anabaptists) and Calvin was more stepped in the tradition of Zwingli rather than that of Luther, and likewise Jacobus Arminius came directly out of the Reformed and was a key challenger of Calvinism.

>>849778

>Wycliffe in the 1300s. Technically, his group were still Catholic,

How do you figure that? You surely realize John Wycliffe wrote the following sentence:

>Since heretical falsehood about the consecrated host is the most important point in individual heresies, I therefore declare to modern heretics, in order that this falsehood may be eradicated from the church, that they cannot explain or understand an accident without a subject. And therefore all these heretical sects belong to the number of those who ignore the fourth chapter of John: We worship what we know.

Recorded in Council of Constance, records for July 6, 1415.

He also wrote the following:

John Wycliffe, De veritate sacrae scripturae, p. 108.

>We have a perfect knowledge of all things necessary to salvation, from the faith of Scripture.

Wycliffe, De veritate sacrae scripturae, pp. 552-553.

>The merit of Christ is of itself sufficient to redeem every man from hell: it is to be understood of a sufficiency of itself, without any other concurring cause.

I could go further back before him, like to the synod of Arras which actually contains one direct quote or the council of Oxford 1160, or even better yet Reinerius' description of the "Leonists" written in the mid-13th century. I can think of several other sources that corroborate these things that I have found. Yet people who deny history are always nervous to ask. They would rather keep their simplistic preconceptions about how everyone thought the same way for over 1000 years.

>>849807

>I always just thought of the Reformed as that Protestantism that developed separately from Lutheranism and Anglicanism, although the English Church did become Reformed as we see in the 39 articles of faith, though there is still a large Anglo-Catholic tradition within the English Church.

The 39 Articles are the doctrinal side. The Elizabethan Settlement is what gave the Anglican church it's final expression (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabethan_Religious_Settlement). So that's why it maintained some of the Catholic appearance. They insisted on a "Middle Way" that kept much of the Catholic expression and offices, but sided with Calvinists in the abstract.

That said, it never was good enough for "true Calvinists" (the Puritans), despite the 39 Articles being agreeable to them. Even King James who was raised a Calvinist couldn't abide them. By the time he set out to commission his famous translation, Puritans played a diminished role and he insisted on much of the High Church and ecclesiastical language that was unlike the Geneva bible. Then later, Puritans decided to kill his son at that. That pretty much ended any happy affair with Calvinists within Anglicanism.

>>849825

I'm not clicking some random link. Sorry, you will have to make your argument here.

>>849873

It's just a bot and not even related to the board.

Zwingli was a pussy and a faggot

Calvin was alpha A.F.

The reformed tradition is based on ideas Calvin developed and tossed out Zwingli’s heretical (and horribly inconsistent) view of the Lord’s Supper. Calvin’s Institutes are the prime foundation of Reformed theology

Calvin worked to spread and dictate the reformed faith, was a diplomat, made peace with Melanchton and the Lutherans while Zwingli was rotting in a ditch after trying and failing to fight AnaBaptists on the battlefield

>>850047

>Zwingli was rotting in a ditch after trying and failing to fight AnaBaptists on the battlefield

They weren't called anabaptists until after the Munster rebellion. Zwingli died years before this. The Munster rebellion was said to have been their origin and used to portray them all as rebels and revolutionaries, leading to many peaceful Christians who did not believe that being burned at the stake.

>>850047

Calvin is spinning in his grave