/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

I cringed

>>849529

I think that the main argument for the everlasting torment of hell comes from Revelation 14:11, which says "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.", but technically that only refers to people who take the mark of the beast.

>>849529

And here is where we prove that whoever is spreading this nonsense is relying on you not knowing the first thing about Scriptures.

Matthew 25:46

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mark 9:47-48

47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 16:22-24

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

>>849529

>The Bible encompasses the entirety of Christian teaching

Cringe

The Biblical Truth About Hell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvkgRy2KIdg

The History of Hell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s25-6Fq7PM8

Hell is NOT Eternal According to the Bible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLa0t8Lwwbs

The wages of sin is death (not eternal torment)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2DGKqZX7vs

Why is Hell disappearing from the Bible? What is Gehenna?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o6CCeOhKYk

The Koine greek manuscripts of the new testament, the oldest versions of the NT that are in existence, do not contain the concept of "hell".

There is Tartarus, the prison abyss where Lucifer and his fallen angels are sent until their final destruction.

There is sheol/Hades, the grave or holding place until judgment.

The lake of fire describes the final destruction of the Earth, the Universe, the Abyss, the fallen angels & lucifer, and the wicked or unrighteous who are not saved. This is the second death, the permanent destruction of everything that is not saved by God.

Am I correct or incorrect in this understanding?

>>849563

>Am I correct or incorrect in this understanding?

Still incorrect, see >>849545

>>849545

>And here is where we prove that whoever is spreading this nonsense is relying on you not knowing the first thing about Scriptures.

>

>Matthew 25:46

>

>46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

>

>Mark 9:47-48

>

>47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

>

>48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

>

>Luke 16:22-24

>

>22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

>

>23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

>

>24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

The problem is that those verses are in English and don't have the same meaning as the original verses in Koine Greek. These translations into English don't do a very good job explaining the full meaning of what is meant in some of the verses.

>>849581

What alternative translation correctly captures the meaning and why?

The Christian religion is continually revealed throughout the Bible until the end when all is fully revealed. Sheol was all the Hebrews knew about the nature of the afterlife although they did have knowledge of a burning place of punishment as well that's referenced in places in the old testament.

After reading the entire Bible it becomes clear that Sheol / Hades / Abraham's Bosom / Paradise / Gehenna / Hell are all the same place that's divided by a great chasm where followers of God are kept on one side in comfort and unbelievers and the rebellious are kept on the other in flames. Sheol and Hades are probably names for the entirety of this place while the other more specific names refer to the different sides.

When Christ died and rose again he opened up Heaven and those in Abraham's Bosom / Paradise were taken there, and all future believers go straight to Heaven when they die. Abraham's Bosom / Paradise is currently empty while Gehenna / Hell is still being filled.

The word Tartarus is only used once but the bottomless pit is used a lot. They are probably referring to the same place. Some fallen angels / demons are already there but will be released onto earth during the tribulations. The Beast and Anti Christ are currently imprisoned there. Satan will be imprisoned there for 1,000 years during the millenial reign before being let loose for a "little while." At the beginning of the millenial reign the Beast and Anti Christ will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and be its first inhabitants.

After everything in Revelation occurs there will be a final judgment of everyone in Heaven, Hell, and those who were alive on earth at the end before the white throne of God and then Satan, all fallen angels / demons, and everyone who was in Hell will be placed in the Lake of Fire while everyone who was in Heaven and the righteous who were still alive on earth will be moved to the new earth.

It's confusing since so many different names are used but the nature of these places and what the names refer to is all self contained within the entirety of the text.

Imagine living in this world and thinking that hell can't exist.

>>849642

>When Christ died and rose again he opened up Heaven and those in Abraham's Bosom / Paradise were taken there, and all future believers go straight to Heaven when they die. Abraham's Bosom / Paradise is currently empty while Gehenna / Hell is still being filled.

That does not explain 2 Corinthians 12:4, Revelation 2:7, nor does it explain John 8:56 and all the references to the dead being silent and not knowing God, Psalm 6:5 for instance. According to John 8:56 Abraham clearly was not dead. See Mark 12:27, Luke 20:38.

Other than reading a little too much into 1 Peter 3:19 though and identifying heaven as a part of hell for some reason this seems accurate. That is kind of a big deal though.

>>849644

>Imagine living in this world and thinking that hell can't exist.

Imagine thinking that a frozen underworld ruled over by a pagan Goddess actually exists! The name "Hell" is borrowed directly from the pagan Goddess Hel.

"Hades" and "Tartarus", two words from ancient Greek New Testament manuscripts that were translated into English bible versions as "Hell" – both are derived from Greek pagan mythology.

Why would the concept of the Christian underworld be borrowed from pagan mythology? Were the pagans correct?

>>849826

The concept wasn't borrowed, the words were just used but in reference to the Hebrew conception. This is like Arab Christians using the Arabic word "Allah" for our God, even though Allah is typically associated with the god of Islam.

>>849827

>The concept wasn't borrowed

In greek mythology: The Titans and those who sinned against the Olympian gods are imprisoned in the dungeon abyss of Tartarus.

In new testament: The fallen angels are imprisoned in the dungeon abyss of Tartarus.

Tartarus in the NT is directly borrowed from greek mythology.

>>849828

>In new testament: The fallen angels are imprisoned in the dungeon abyss of Tartarus.

That's older than the New Testament. It goes as far back as Genesis, about the angels who slept with women and created the Nephillim. Do you think God didn't punish them? It's also elaborated on later (still before the New Testament) in the books of Jubilees and Enoch.

Go away. You're like some busybodying granny who sticks their nose in places where they don't belong. You don't know the half of it.

Speaking of which, this idea of Greek mythology being older is stupid even on a secular basis. Greeks got their gods and myths from the Hittites. Hittites, in turn, got it from Sumer. Sumer is the cradle of civilization. Everything streams from there.

As for Jewish/Christian thought, Jews were a breakaway caste of Sumerians, via Abraham and his father Terah. They run parallel to it. Not derivative. They ARE Sumerian. Just the good ones, who weren't deceived by these fallen angels and myths.

As for the New Testament using Greek - it was the lingua franca of the day. It doesn't mean anymore than that. No different than if a foreigner used English. It doesn't mean everything that a person says and believe is enculturated with English or American beliefs. I shouldn't even have to say this, because this line of reasoning is beyond retarded.

>>849833

>Sumer is the cradle of civilization. Everything streams from there.

So it's all basically derived from Sumerian myths, the flood story, story of Moses, story of creation, and early concepts of God/Satan and the underworld? Unless you assume that they're factual or partly factual stories?

>>849845

All falsehoods (war, divination, astrology, etc) and false gods derived from Sumer. Jews were the breakaway civilization whom God chose to reveal himself to. Moses came later, and was a Jew.

>>849846

I'm not sure why you're quoting me. This isn't mere disagreement. These are angels who gave birth to abominations (the Nephilim) and pretended to be gods. As if the fall of Adam wasn't bad enough on it's own. They are the source of every twisted and sick idea that ravages the earth to this day.

>>849852

>retard cope

lol holy s— your an embarrassment

Hell has to exist because God is perfect and therefor just, and justice isn't served in this world.

Besides, where would all the Protestants go?

Here is the definition from the original 1828 Webster's:

1. The place or state of punishment for the wicked after death. Matt. x. Luke xii.

-Sin is hell begun, as religion is heaven anticipated. – J. Lalhrop

2. The place of the dead, or of souls after death ; the lower regions, or the grave; called in Hebrew, sheol, and by the Greeks hades. Ps. xvi. Jon. ii.

3. The pains of hell, temporal death, or agonies that dying persons feel, or which bring to the brink of the grave. Ps. xviii.

____

So there you go. Hell in the English language is clearly defined as the words used in Matthew 10, Luke 12 and those places in the Old Testament. Clearly, since these passages are clearly Biblical, we can see that the English word "hell" refers to the Biblical usage, and concept, of hell in the Christian sense as defined in the Bible.

The dictionary itself says the definition of the word comes from those Biblical references.

>Why would the concept of the Christian underworld be borrowed from pagan mythology?

I am not sure where you get this idea from. The Biblical concept of hell goes back to the beginning when people started dying. This predates pagan mythology which devolved later, created by, as Psalm 9 says, "the nations that forget God" and Paul also warned that those who deny God are without excuse for doing so in Romans 1:20. As we learn from Scripture, the original descendants of Adam knew about God, but later some sinfully departed from this. To gain the most accurate information about the place referred to by those words then, you would need to study the Old and New Testament. In contrast, pagan mythology are all simply ideas that developed later when some of the descendants of Adam willfully fell away from the truth. The words hell and so forth refer, originally, to the true, existing place which is accurate to the Biblical concept.

>>849928

Meant to link >>849826