/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>848123

i'm going to visit one of their chapels once corona virus restrictions are loosened in my area, never been to extraordinary form mass before :)

>>848124

If there is an SSPX chapel nearby, that's fine, make sure that it's atually SSPX though because there are other groups using their name but aren't attached.

Also, more importantly, you don't have to go to SSPX to experience the extraordinary mass anymore, there are other groups that do it, a google search should have a group that does the extraordinary mass near you. Just if it's your first time in a latin mass try and buy a mass book or go over it on youtube first because it can be really hard to follow without it coming from the regular Novus Ordo mass

Not that op did anything wrong but I can see a lot of Catholics on this board finally showing their suppressed edginess and it's really scaring other Catholics. I say it's good. Cut the filter and let loose. We're required to be charitable but suppressing truth isn't part of charity. Quoting the holy book instead of church doctors is quite a bit more muslim than Catholic. You're not a confirmed Saint with divine power to discern everything in the Bible so quote the people who are. Zionist and communist infiltrators are certainly in the church and it's better to call them out than let them take over. True love does what's just, not what's trendy or looks good in the eyes of others.

>>848126

Communist infiltrators yes I know about, I haven't heard about Zionists yet but I grant that's possible. I'm more conserned about satanic infiltrators and I've seen a few, like that priest who recently defiled an altar.

We can speak out about such things, but in doing so we should keep to the way LeFebvre did. That his he never doubted or denied papal infallibility or the authority of the pope and the church. This is important.

The pope is guided by the holy spirit in his pronouncements on morals and doctrine when he is speaking officially. This was given specifically by Christ in the bible. As was the power to forgive sins to priests appointed by the pope. That was done by Christ himself. As with the ability to consecrate the host.

In speaking against bad actors in the church we can't start challenging things like papal infallibility or papal authority - and that's some of these people showing their "edginess" miss

>>848128

I think people who freak out about Francis watch too much media. He's said things in support of White natives before and the media loves to twist his words to sound liberal.

>>848126

>You're not a confirmed Saint with divine power to discern everything in the Bible so quote the people who are.

Just like the watchtower society.

I have no idea what you're trying to say OP, or who you're addressing to, but I'm gonna answer anyways because I'm interested in the topic.

>he never doubted or denied papal infallibility or the authority of the pope and the church.

I'd say this is wrong, he never denied, but he DID doubt it a lot. I suggest you read "Ils l'ont découronné" to see it written black and white. And it is the official stance of the FSSPX today: they don't deny the Pope, but they doubt he is legitimate. Yes this is unclear and misleading, but it also shows humility.

>the church does not sound like /pol/ it has never sounded like /pol/

Hel* yes it has. Until 1962, jews were rightly called heretics (until they convert of course) and outside of the communion of saints. Our holy king of France Louis IX had the Talmud trialed and burned in Paris, and forced jews to where a distinctive piece of clothes: the "rouelle".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disputation_of_Paris

The Pope Innocent IV went on to publish a papa bull: "Impia Judaeorum perfidia", or the unholy perfidy of the jews.

If that doesn't sound like /pol/ it don't know what does.

>>848161

> they don't deny the Pope, but they doubt he is legitimate

I haven't seen that anywhere and it explicity conflicts with LeFebvre'scomments where he says

>Far from us be this miserable thought to separate ourselves from Rome

People accuse us of being anti-semitic because we want Jews to convert and believe Judaism, like all other religions is evil. This is not the same as /pol/ who hates Jews (which we do not) for political reasons (which is distinct from our spiritual complaints)

>>848168

>it explicity conflicts

No it doesn't. Do you understand the difference between denying and doubting?

A Fsspx priest preaches it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KSyueKq30o

I know you probably don't speak french but I'm sure you can find the same sermons from the FSSPX in english.

>This is not the same as /pol/ who hates Jews

>/pol/ is one person

You don't know what this sh*thole thinks, nobody does. My point is, you are mistaken if you think the Church has never fought the jews. But I think you already agree with me on this.

>>848179

>No it doesn't. Do you understand the difference between denying and doubting?

let the thought stay far from our minds is not doubting - they doubted John Paul's beautification and sainthood not the authority of the Pope, the later being protestantism

>My point is, you are mistaken if you think the Church has never fought the jews.

You're taking our statements out of context and presenting it the same way the Church's enemies do. In fact everything you say mirrors what the Church's enemies say

Archbishop Lefebvre passed away in 1991. He lived to see many abuses in the Mass, but it's gotten far worse.

Popes have died rather than see a pagan idol dragged before the Alter of God.

>>848218

I don't deny it's bad. But our tradition and scripture tells us that the pope, even bad popes, are guided ex catheda by the holy spirit and thatbthe gates of hell shall not overcome the church. I will not deny our traditions and more importantly I will not deny the words of Jesus christ simply because I don't like the pope.

>>848224

I'm sure many people said that as the emperor set up the arch-heretic Arius over Rome as well.

Little do you realize that the truth isn't with Rome at all. It is found in the word of God, the Holy Bible, and the churches that still keep and safeguard it.

>>848233

>>848233

Jesus founded a church established a papcy and gave the holy spirit. The failings and evils of individual popes cannot undo Jesus's promise and the might of the holy spirit. As abhorrent as the current pope is, he cannot chnge our doctrine

>>848237

You cannot show where in Scripture there is ever a papacy. That's the invention of the emperors and potentates of this world.

Like it says in Scripture, they that are unlearned and unstable wrest the scriptures unto their own destruction. The whole idea of papacy is false and unbiblical.

>The failings and evils of individual popes cannot undo Jesus's promise and the might of the holy spirit.

Yes, because the popes and the dalai lamas have nothing to do with Jesus' promise or the might of the Holy Spirit. It is patently unbiblical. The promise holds true, and this is that the gates of hell shall not prevail over his church. Which has nothing to do with the emperor or anyone of his officials. The Roman Empire fell a long time ago. It has nothing to do with Rome.

You can not find or show where there is such a beast anywhere in the New Testament, nor in the Old Testament. There is nothing about Rome being infallible in there. The only thing that the papacy does resemble is the antichrist, alluring people with carnal temptations and false promises of salvation into following him. He is an antichrist.

>As abhorrent as the current pope is, he cannot chnge our doctrine

Not if you don't let him. He is just a strange man in a funny suit. He will go straight to hell unless he repents and gets right with God. As far as I can tell, no previous pope has ever repented over the cult they have created, so they are all in hell today. They have zero to do with the promises of the Lord Jesus Christ or the Bible, or sacred Scripture. The church exists apart from the dealings of those wicked men. And we in the church have always existed since the founding of Jesus Christ himself. Amen.

1 Timothy 6:3-5

>3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

>4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

>5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

>>848204

>not the authority of the Pope,

I showed you evidence, where is yours?

>In fact everything you say mirrors what the Church's enemies say

Care to elaborate? I feel like you're just mad at me for some reason.

>>848239

Why do you feel so compelled to post in a thread like this? Why are you all like this on this board? If I saw a thread that is clearly about another denomination than mine I wouldn't bother them with my irrelevant opinion.

>>84823>>848239

>You cannot show where in Scripture there is ever a papacy. That's the invention of the emperors and potentates of this world.

"You are peter, upon this rock I build my church" and then later in Acts you see peter making rulings on doctrine and ending debate as with clean and unclean animals.

And all Christians accepted this interpretatioin for all history until the protoestant reformation

Protestantism doesn't make sense iin light of scripture

what did Jesus mean when he said "whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed on heaven" Did he mean all 10 000 protectant denoms with various and sometimes contradictory beliefs have the authority to bind and loosoe on heaven and earth

what about in John when he said "whomever sins you forgive will be forgiven and whomever sins you don't forgive will be retained" How does that work if he's not talking about the confessional? Is he saying protesant pastors have the power to forgive and withhold forgiveness for sins? The whole thing is bonkers if you used a prot interpretation which is why prots are going into bonkers territory by having the charismatics and the prosperity preachers being the top and fastest growing churches

>>848224

We've had anti-Popes in the past. The key is to know the difference.

If you think someone's a Pope and they trash the traditions and dogmas established by past Popes, then he's an anti-Pope.

>>848233

What? We're supposed to notice that a Pope might trash traditions and teach against the Catholic church, so we should go full heretic and become protestants?

I can just become Novus ordo and do that. They have dancing girls.

>>848270

anti-popes were people who were in opposition to the actual pope. There was also a real pope together with an anti-pope. There is no realistic contender to st. peter's seat at the moment other than Francis

>>848272

Pope Benedict XVI is still alive.

>>848332

B&R