cc8c26 No.846103[Last 50 Posts]
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2c1b9b No.846104
Ah yes, the pagan emperor who worshiped the false god Sol Invictus and started the Roman Catholic Church in the 4th century. He is in hell.
Sage.
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002789 No.846105
>>846104
The constantine event is a convenient myth for sure but the Roman church dates to the new testament. It would be better to say that constantine's actions helped bring a corrupt political view into Christianity, centered in Rome, christian sacralism.
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2e987a No.846110
>>846104
>He is in hell.
Constantine was sympathetic to Arius actually. Not orthodox teachings. Don't believe your Baptist revisionist history and don't believe Orthodox and Catholics either. Read the documents and history for yourself. You're a free man.
He repented later in life of his violence though. So I'm not sure whether he's in hell or not. Only God knows.
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304d7b No.846111
>>846110
>Constantine was sympathetic to Arius actually.
Exactly what this guy said. Exactly right, and we should bear that in mind for future discussion.
>Read the documents and history for yourself.
And it turns out the baptists were right based both on the preponderance of evidence and based on what Scripture teaches. Council of Arles in 314 was just as unorthodox as the council of Ariminum which happened not long afterward by the same crowd. It was by the same Romanists, that is.
Ex: They taught that people should use political violence to imprison their enemies. Yet we never find in scripture where any church persecuted or sent anyone to prison. If you'd like to know why as an independent baptist I would gladly explain using historical documents such as the New Testament and Old Testament to prove this and well as other histories to demonstrate the wicked acts of later false churches in contradiction to this.
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002789 No.846112
>>846111
Are you in favor of the abolition of prisons but more frequent use of capital punishment?
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304d7b No.846149
>>846112
The state and church are two separate things. The state shall not create thought crimes wherein the freedom of conscience is violated. And this is in the Bible, see 1 Corinthians chapter 5, 2 Corinthians 6, 1 Timothy 6:1-5 (KJV). You see nowhere where the church ever lords over the state (Romans 13) or vice versa. It is an abomination.
There have always been conscientious objectors against this corrupt practice. Gradually it was shown to be false and corrupt and is no longer practiced now. Except maybe in Russia or something.
This is pretty much what John Clarke (baptist minister and co-founder of Rhode Island colony, 1609 – 1676) successfully argued which eventually prevailed over the more hypocritical puritan uniformitarianism that was trying to spread of that time. Later this truth (because it's true) made it into the constitutions of pretty much everywhere in the free world.
The Soviet style repression that was once practiced everywhere in the world is abolished, except where the enemies of the truth, relying on their propagandists, ever secretly scheme to bring it back again.
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6169e8 No.846319
>>846104
He's a Saint you monkey.
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749598 No.846323
>>846105
Christ never rebuked the Roman Empire.
Further, I doubt this author can truly read minds and is not just another low IQ projecting buffoon.
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304d7b No.846359
>>846323
The Lord Jesus Christ did rebuke the scribes and pharisees and their "oral tradition" ways.
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8baf81 No.846365
>>846359
He did consider them legitimate(until the Ressurection), but corrupt.
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749598 No.846375
>>846359
And? I wasn't talking about them, I was talking about the government of the Roman Empire and how mind reading historical figures is laughable.
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304d7b No.846479
>>846375
The Roman Empire went with the whole oral traditions thing when it set up catholicism under Constantine though.
>>846365
You have to ask yourself, exactly what are we talking about here? Do you mean that the Herodian/Sanhedrin government was the government of the kingdom of Judah at the time, and that God's people should be law-abiding citizens of their local government?
Or else do you mean to suggest the Lord Jesus taught that their doctrines actually were "correct" and people should convert to Pharisaism? Because if you think the latter, see Mark 7:7-13 where the Lord verbally rebukes such a concept entirely. He rebuked the false "oral traditions" concept (also the fraudulent religious authorities) which people of that day used to get around following the written Scriptures.
He said the Law and the Scriptures are the word of God, not the teachings of the Pharisees. He said that was the tradition that "they had delivered" (Mark 7:13). It was not God's law, despite them claiming it was an oral tradition that was. I'm saying things haven't changed much, with more people now even still promoting oral traditions, just as the Pharisees did (now they are calling it the "oral traditions of the Church") to subvert both the Old Testament and the New Testament today. They continually undermine the Scriptures by their 'teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.' And since this is what the Lord Jesus Christ is addressing in Mark 7:7-13 it is then appropriate to bring it up here.
We should no longer have any other law, than to follow Jesus Christ, to do his will, and to keep firmly what he commanded. Not following after vain philosophies, nor carried about with every wind of doctrine. Not heeding manmade traditions that pass themselves off as truth, which ungodly men are inclined to forge and invent for themselves. Yes, even if they put on big hats and act proud and presumptuous. Big lies may be more deceptive to the masses, but they are still just that, lies. As the Apostle John said, If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater – 1 John 5:9. As the Apostle Paul stated, continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them – 2 Timothy 3:14. And all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
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5e0d08 No.846483
>>846479
>Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Then He starts listing how hypocritical they are.
So again, legit religious authorities, but morally bankrupt.
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749598 No.846490
>>846479
Roman Catholic inventions like purgatory and the immaculate conception aren't from his time.
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4e1de0 No.846496
>>846490
“Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their portion at the proper time? 43Blessed is that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 44Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.
45But suppose that servant says in his heart, ‘My master will be a long time in coming, and he begins to beat the menservants and maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk. 46The master of that servant will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not anticipate. Then he will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.
47 That servant who knows his master’s will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who unknowingly does things worthy of punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and from him who has been entrusted with much, even more will be demanded.
Heaven, hell, harsh purgatory, light purgatory.
The only way to evade that purification is reaching sainthood on earth.
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304d7b No.846534
>>846483
Do you mean that the Herodian/Sanhedrin government was the government of the kingdom of Judah at the time, and that God's people should be law-abiding citizens of their local government?
Or else do you mean to suggest the Lord Jesus taught that their doctrines actually were "correct" and people should convert to Pharisaism? Because if you think the latter, see Mark 7:7-13 where the Lord verbally rebukes such a concept entirely. He rebuked the false "oral traditions" concept (also the fraudulent religious authorities) which people of that day used to get around following the written Scriptures.
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380b89 No.846535
>>846534
Look man, i get you are trying to frame into your well-worn sola fide and non-state churches memes, which is why you 404'd and just repeated your copy-pasta, but please, try to have an honest argument.
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749598 No.846549
>>846496
We're in "purgatory" right now. This life is a state of half-being for the repentance of sins.
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304d7b No.846562
>>846535
No it's more like he didn't even read my post or something. I'm trying to do the most intellectually honest and least insulting thing by repeating the relevant part of my post as there is a possibility he had a browser error and didn't see it.
Is there a response to the above? He is clearly telling us in multiple passages of Scripture, that we should follow the laws of the government. The most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.
That isn't saying their doctrine is correct. Whole other story in fact. The passage you alluded to and this guy quoted has nothing to do with endorsing any of the doctrines of the pharisees or saying that they are correct. Merely saying to follow the herodian/sanhedrin government is not the same as advocating or endorsing their doctrine or saying they are legitimate teachers or anything of that matter. We are to follow whoever sits in the seat of government as far as legal matters go.
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ccbe37 No.846564
>>846562
>We are to follow whoever sits in the seat of government as far as legal matters go.
<By choosing a king Israel has rejected me their God
Ah yes, God loves government.
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304d7b No.846565
>>846496
>The only way to evade that purification is reaching sainthood on earth.
Obviously every saved person is a saint.
As far as purgatory goes, that is an invention of antichrist, forged contrary to Biblical truth. All people go two ways from this world, either to destruction or salvation everlasting. You wouldn't want to evade purification anyway. As St. Paul who is saved said (infallibly by inspiration of the Holy Spirit),
Romans 8:
> 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
> 30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
So we see that every justified person in His blood will be glorified and conformed to the image of his Son. It's just a given. It's not something to be avoided.
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304d7b No.846566
>>846564
John 19:
> 10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
> 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
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380b89 No.846585
>>846562
Because again, you are completely ignoring what i said and try to railroad it into an sola/anti-state church meme you parrot, because everything outside of that makes your brain explode.
It wasnt some vague obey the gov(btw, your "sanhedrin government" formulation was a painful, clunky attempt to frame it as such) thing, it was they "sit in Moses’ seat"(read up on the term), which makes their religious authority legitimate, not correct.
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d36ed4 No.846589
>>846566
From above obviously means whoever's in charge of Pilate. Jesus is blaming who gave Him to Pilate, Herod. The fact you turn Herod into God to justify government servility disturbs me.
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988cdd No.846592
>>846589
He also doesn't realize but his view would imply God has the greater sin. They don't even need to omit it to twist it in their pre-conceived boomer notions of justice.
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304d7b No.846607
>>846585
Yes, it is taught that we should follow the laws of the government, see Romans 13. That's written by the Apostle Paul not long after the scripture we've already discussed was written. That's what we're talking about here.
>>846589
>>846592
>justify government servility
Ok so you want to have anarchy and any kind of following laws is no good for you. Well, just consider the statements the Lord made and I will pray for you.
>The fact you turn Herod into God
I utterly disagree with this. First of all, the reference is to God. As the quote from Daniel indicated.
Daniel 2:
> 20 Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his:
> 21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
> 22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him.
Now as far as what Jesus our Lord himself taught.
Mark 12:
> 14 Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?
> 15 Shall we give, or shall we not give? But he, knowing their hypocrisy, said unto them, Why tempt ye me? bring me a penny, that I may see it.
> 16 And they brought it. And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? And they said unto him, Caesar's.
> 17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's. And they marvelled at him.
And that's it. No need to deal with your accusations against me.
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304d7b No.846609
>>846585
I'm honestly surprised how much you want to compare yourself to the Pharisees anon.
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47fe1d No.846610
>>846479
Execpt the Catholic Church has been proven to exist BEFORE Constantine. St Ignatius of Antioch talked about the Catholic Church in his letter to the Smyrnees in 105-6 AD. He recognized the Primacy of Rome. All Constantine did was LEGALIZE Christianity and the Church. He did not found it. A cursory search of early Church history shows how foolish such a claim is.
>>846609
He is being hypocritical when he does this. I love him, but this is foolish
>846609
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47fe1d No.846611
>>846607
>> So you want anarchy….
We want Caesar to have what is Caesar's and for God to have what belongs to God. As Father Ripperger best said it, THE problem with Caesar today, is that he wants that which DOES
NOT…belong to Caesar. If it belongs to Caesar, it should go to Caesar. NUT if it does NOT…it DOES not. We re to follow Caesar INSOFAR, as it does NOT involve committing sinful. By your logic, the Christians in pagan Rome were wrong in not obeying Caesar, when he said to turn away from Christ and sacrifice to the idols. WEA RE NOT BOUND TO FOLLOW GOVERNMENT WHEN IT INVOLVES COMMITING SIN. If the government says that I pay a fee to support a new park…sure. But if the fee is for an abortion clinic…NO.
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ad7ee3 No.846612
>>846607
Government is always bad because it gives few people most of the power and it's evil people who are attracted to that power. God told the Israelites electing a king is going against Him and guess what their kings did, they killed a man to steal his wife and imported foreign tribes and religions. The founding fathers as good Christians knew the dangers of government so they implemented checks and balances which evil people are trying to erode. If you so much as like government you deny God and open yourself up to evil.
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304d7b No.846613
>>846610
That's the problem is you can't prove any such existence before the Majorian/Caecilian election. Certainly not from scripture, and any other evidence is too weak to overturn it.
Did heretics exist before? Yes, of course. Paul even talks of them in his letters. There have always been the seeds of the heresy hiding in places even in Paul and John's day. As the apostle John wrote in 1 John, there are many antichrists.
1 John 4:3
>And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
St. Paul wrote in the present tense to the Thessalonians that the "Mystery of Iniquity doth already work." (2 Thess. 2:7)
Just face it, there is no inspired scripture to support such innovations as baptismal regeneration and infant baptism. This and other inventions later on like sprinkling, purgatory, worshipping images and idols, are all a tool of the antichrist invented whole cloth and based on manmade authorities. These are not the traditions as received from the apostles which we have, inspired and preserved in their untouched purity. Nor did the seeds of heresy ever succeed to choke out the truth, as we still have the true version of Scripture today which they don't like, as guarded by the holy church.
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304d7b No.846614
>>846611
>By your logic, the Christians in pagan Rome were wrong in not obeying Caesar, when he said to turn away from Christ and sacrifice to the idols.
Not true, as Peter said in the book of Acts.
Acts 5:29
>Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
The problem here is you still aren't truly grasping the extent of Scripture. And if you think it is contradicting, read more, pray more.
We don't promote anarchy through Scripture. Neither do we use the mandates of the government to attack Christian truths and values contained in the Holy Bible. Hence, separation of church and state follows. See >>846149
>>846612
If you object to scripture just say so. That's all I've been quoting and I am endeavoring in everything I do not to deny any precept of the inspired word.
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47fe1d No.846615
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47fe1d No.846616
>>846615
it is annoying when Protestants tell the same old lies over and over. It is what made me Catholic in a way, the Church has withstood my skepticism, while my beliefs in Protestantism fell apart. Sorry anon, I tried to be Protestant. I cannot. Not anymore. The Church has stomped it, in my opinion
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607e31 No.846617
>>846614
Scripture literally says government is idolatry, deserting God to serve other gods.
>6 Samuel was displeased when they said, “Give us a king to rule us.” But he prayed to the Lord. 7 The Lord said: Listen to whatever the people say. You are not the one they are rejecting. They are rejecting me as their king. 8 They are acting toward you just as they have acted from the day I brought them up from Egypt to this very day, deserting me to serve other gods. 9 Now listen to them; but at the same time, give them a solemn warning and inform them of the rights of the king who will rule them.
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304d7b No.846621
>>846615
>>846616
Read the rest of my post first then respond. As my earlier post which you responded to already addresses this. But if you aren't even going to respond to my posts however except taking a couple words out of context, there's not a point in continuing this here. You are not responding or interacting to the content of my post and you know it.
I'd be glad to actually discuss these things if you thought could hold your side of the discussion.
>>846617
Real question, are you an anarchist because of your conclusion?
None of the passages of scripture anyone have cited contradict each other. The apostles speak against those who love rioting in the streets and anarchy just as much as those who are legalist and anti-God.
They wrote the New Testament, God inspired those words and I believe them. And the scripture passage you cited I am well aware of as well. I agree we should keep government out of the church. Anyone who holds a position in government (such as ruling over a territory or some public office) should not be simultaneously holding office as a church congregation leader, that is the bishops and pastors which the New Testament speaks about. This I fully support, as it is found in the witness of Scripture.
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304d7b No.846622
>>846621
I should also add that the United States itself prevents any kind of test for public office such that a religious and state position were merged together. And Mystery Babylon is the merger of church and state, as depicted by the whore sitting on the beast. Whereas the pure church meanwhile is pure and chaste before the Lord and has not committed adultery with the kings of the earth.
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47fe1d No.846623
>>846613
There is no scripture that points to infnt baptism
What is OT circumcision for 500 Alex?
Circumcision is symbolic of infant baptism
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47fe1d No.846624
*infant
Also if what you said was true, and since infants have no faith, then there would be NO way for babies to be saved.
The faith of the parents sufficed when it came to circumcising a child. Do we not see that principle in the New Testament as well? Jesus saw the faith of the friends of the paralytic and healed the paralytic in Matt. 9:2. When people cannot have faith, the faith of family or friends suffices. So it is with infants. The faith of the parents sanctifies the children as St. Paul says in I Cor. 7:14. This is just as much a New Testament concept as it is an Old Testament concept.
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304d7b No.846627
>>846615
So let's draw a conclusion from this. I said you can't prove that the religion wasn't set up with Constantine, which was at the point when he enforced unity with his hand picked leaders. Those churches who didn't accept his choices were persecuted from 313 to 321, and then later persecuted again by Constans from 346-348. You can't deny their existence. Before Constantinue, there isn't a merging of government, as I have been talking about for most of this thread since the early posts, so then you can't prove such a system truly existed before him, except as a fantasy of some power hungry individuals. All it was was a fantasy which Constantine made happen.
But the problem is that he didn't have the legitimate authority to reign over the true church.
His choices were not legitimate and in fact, it was antichrist, as a matter of fact. You can't prove that his system pre-existed him, and that the true churches (which all excommunicated the Emperor) weren't the true predecessors from before the year 313.
The rest of what you do have is just a jumble of non-scripture references. So like I said, >>846613
You certainly cannot prove anything which has been claimed for your side using actual Scripture. And nothing else is strong enough to overturn Scripture. QED
>while my beliefs in Protestantism fell apart.
So what? I am not arguing for infant baptism, which is what Protestant teaches. Both of your choices you mentioned are descended from Constantine. So how is this relevant right now? They are still a pedobaptist regardless and do not have scriptural baptism. Reasons below are specified.
>>846624
>Also if what you said was true, and since infants have no faith, then there would be NO way for babies to be saved.
Jumping to conclusions.
>Jesus saw the faith of the friends of the paralytic and healed the paralytic in Matt. 9:2.
Ok, I'm glad to hear you finally referring to Scripture. That is a major development. Now, all you need to do is show where baptism is mentioned in this context without a bunch of hand waving. This is because ultimately, your justification for such a practice is not rooted in Scripture, one could not get it from there.
But I can show you where it is required for profession of faith as follows:
Acts 8:
> 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
> 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
> 38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Acts 2:
> 41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
I have taken note in this second place how only those who gladly received the word were baptized. The Scripture here doesn't say all were baptized, it specifically limits it to the number that gladly received the word. Furthermore in verse 42 the word of God also says:
> 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
And in Matthew 28:
> 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
> 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
We see how the Lord Jesus commanded them to first teach and then baptize and finally teach them to observe all things. This is a specific ordering. Also it's the same exact thing in Mark 16:
>He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Notice that according to the words of Scripture that believing is not the same thing as baptizing, not to say that both things aren't good but that one always comes after the other in every case. Again if there's an actual problem with anything in this post then it will be required to prove it using valid sources. I'm not expecting that to ever happen because Scripture is so clear when it comes to these matters. People try hard to contradict it, but they can only get away with that in a context of ignorance and not knowing Scripture.
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47fe1d No.846630
>>846627
I just proved it, anon. You can keep denying, it, but the Church existed before hand as I have CLEARLY shown.
>jumping to conclusions.
If faith is a prerequisite for salvation, than babies, being unable to believe, CANNOT be saved. I am shocked I have to make this bite sized for you to understand.
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47fe1d No.846631
Quotes from St Ignatius of antioch proving the existence of the Church
>not evidence
This is why I left Protestantism, it is like a paper dragon. If quotes from those alive today are not evidence, than your idea of evidence and mine are likely different.
Answer me this: Does the bible interpret itself?
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beb717 No.846632
>>846607
>Yes, it is taught that we should follow the laws of the government, see Romans 13.
Ok, so your continous, desperate attempt to make the seat of Moses about the state is for me your declaration of defeat.
GG, and see you later.
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47fe1d No.846633
>>846632
Agree. His defense is your brain on Protestantism. We may not always agree, brother. But if there was a Catholic state, I WOULD allow you, because you are the closest to us in terms of being close to the truth. You are even if were at the very least. Apostolic. Maybe someday, we can get together again. : )
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47fe1d No.846634
>>846632
Also. You guys are far more likely to hate pic related, than many protestants.
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47fe1d No.846635
>>846634
If I am not mistaken?
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304d7b No.846637
>>846630
Only for those who come to the age of accountability.
2 Samuel 12:
> 19 But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.
> 20 Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the LORD, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.
> 21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.
> 22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?
> 23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
Job 3:
> 12 Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
> 13 For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
> 14 With kings and counsellers of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves;
> 15 Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
> 16 Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
> 17 There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
> 18 There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
> 19 The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.
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304d7b No.846638
>>846631
>Quotes from St Ignatius of antioch proving the existence of the Church
There is a number of things wrong with this statement. For example, you haven't proven that these quotes are infallible, you haven't proven they weren't corrupted (as they are non-scripture and falsifiable), you haven't proven the quote uses the same definition of church that I was referring to earlier, and since, most of all, since all scripture is given by inspiration of God, you haven't shown where the equivalent doctrine is actually found in Scripture. These are a limited number of the reasons why you producing a quote and claiming it is both infallible, authoritative, accurate and not corrupted by later people means it isn't evidence on par with the word of God which, as prophesied, is perfectly preserved in every word and infallible. There is every possibility that corrupt people have given that quote and it is in contradiction in some way to scripture, no matter who wrote it, the claimed author or some guy fifteen minutes ago who changed a few words in it to make it fit his doctrine.
>your idea of evidence and mine are likely different.
Sure. I repeat from the Bible that we are not to be led astray by every slight wind of doctrine and random interpretation of guys down the street. See Colossians 2:6-8.
> 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
> 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
> 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Even if they happen to be powerful, like say the government of a country, their interpretation might still be wrong. And even in the time of the apostles, there have always been heretics and people making up false doctrine, so age of the quotation alone wouldn't be sufficient proof, if it were theoretically possible to build a time machine or time capsule to prove it wasn't altered. I'm just not such a gullible person as to believe whatever some guy tells me was happening in the early church without any Scriptural evidence. You can produce voluminous quotes all day long, it doesn't mean a thing because of what God said in his word.
>Answer me this: Does the bible interpret itself?
John 16:13
>Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
> 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
1 Corinthians 2:
> 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
> 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
> 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
> 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
> 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
> 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
As the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as the bible, the answer then is no and the reason is because the Holy Spirit, who is the Lord God, is the one who teaches the saved person the truth. I always like writing these answers if it can serve to glorify the Lord our God.
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47fe1d No.846639
>>846637
Then why did the Jews circumcise
Show they have been corrupted.
So is your interpretation of scripture correct?
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304d7b No.846641
>>846639
Genesis 17:10 states that every man child among them shall be circumcised so they obeyed that.
>Show they have been corrupted.
2 Corinthians 2:
> 17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
Acts 20:
> 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
> 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
> 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
> 32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
1 John 5:
> 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater:
<Show me where each one of the 100 quotes I pulled have been corrupted
So if some muslim or mormon comes around am I supposed to go prove every one of their quotations are corrupted? No, it's a fool's errand, because those people just won't accept whatever you give them at the end of it. No, I am supposed to show from Scripture why they are all wrong for relying on non-scripture. In fact, Paul advises this because he says:
Romans 10:17
"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
So to follow Paul's statement of fact, faith is only going to come from bringing the word of God to the discussion to illuminate the true situation.
>So is your interpretation of scripture correct?
Depends on if it's correct or not. The only person who validates the correctness of something is the Holy Spirit. That is how, through God's teaching, I can know what is or is not right from Scripture, eliminating the need to follow any other men, the pope, some guy wearing a hat, Constantine, etc, if that's what you're asking. Because of the presence of God, truth unity and good is possible.
Ephesians 2:
> 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
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304d7b No.846642
>>846641
Oh yes and I forgot to mention the following that was written by the Apostle John in the 1st century A.D.
>But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
- 1 John 2:27
This of course refers again to what we've already discussed.
2 Corinthians 1:
>21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
> 22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
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304d7b No.846643
>>846642
And what does earnest mean? See the definition:
1. a portion of something, given or done in advance as a pledge of the remainder.
Or as Webster originally said in 1828:
1. First fruits; that which is in advance, and gives promise of something to come. Early fruit may be an earnest of fruit to follow. The first success in arms may be an earnest of future success. The christian's peace of mind in this life is an earnest of future peace and happiness. Hence earnest or earnest-money is a first payment or deposit giving promise or assurance of full payment.
Which is also what ἀρραβών, the same word used in Greek means in the original. As seen here:
Ephesians 1:
> 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
> 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Why would we say done in advance? Maybe also because of what the same apostle wrote further on in the same book:
Ephesians 4:30
>And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
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beb717 No.846680
>>846635
>>846633
>>846634
I think Rome and the East have semi-formed solution to mending the schism, given some of the odd behaviours and declarations they have been doing for some time.
As for commies, yeah, we hate them.
Ironically, the russian commie party(and some of the romanian ones) are now trying to buddy up to the OC's, because boomers are the only remaining commie loving demographic, and they tend to be both nostalgic and religious
Shows how ironic history is, and how God truly can make your enemies grovel before you.
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304d7b No.846681
>>846680
You know, it's a shame when someone disdains and hates the word of the Lord so much that they simply ignore it, turn aside to manmade fables instead. Do you really think that the Lord is going to look kindly on those that disdained and took so lightly the things that his Word said? No He is not going to be pleased with that. He is not going to be pleased with that, not at all. You can't just say it's all relative and shrug it off, then turning to manmade sayings and corruptions. And it's not about winning a popularity contest or getting enough people behind you, that's trusting in the flesh. Because without being in God's word actually keeping his commandments, it's all meaningless.
It's really sad that you think getting some commies to switch sides really makes any difference here when there are such bigger problems to address such as actually turning to Christ. If you trust in the flesh though it's simply a fact that it won't serve the needs and is not worthy of the honor you choose to give to it.
Ps. 118
>The Lᴏʀᴅ is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?
>7 The Lᴏʀᴅ taketh my part with them that help me: therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me.
>8 It is better to trust in the Lᴏʀᴅ than to put confidence in man.
>9 It is better to trust in the Lᴏʀᴅ than to put confidence in princes.
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beb717 No.846706
>>846681
Again, once you'll stop responding in clichéd wooden language, we will talk.
Until then, quiet.
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e55bdf No.846725
>>846105
Nationalism before nationalism. It's okay to keep people you don't like out of your country. They can live somewhere else if they don't like it. Kikes instead try to destroy countries and give "freedom to choose." Look what such liberalism has wrought in our countries today.
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847b99 No.851326
He was a pagan Mithraist. He disguised the Luciferian cult (sol invictus) under the guise of Christianity
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