/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>845501

Nobody wanted to answer this but I'll give it a try.

Supernatural means "above nature" as in "God is supernatural" so yes the supernatural is real. But the supernatural is not paranormal in the /x/ files sense.

The best way to understand this is that even though the supernatural and paranormal are synonyms in common parlance, there is a difference between religion and magic. Magic is paranormal, and involves using paranormal means to satisfy normal desires for material goods. Religion however, is about knowing God not as a matter of abstract metaphysics, but in the same way that you know a friend.

So yes, there are paranormal and supernatural things. Mankind is more aware of both than some like to pretend, but the real question before us is the following choice; magic, or religion? With magic, you may be able to accrue some earthly benefits some people swear by it but we are told by religion that magic is a manifestation of the sin of pride, ultimately, and it will lead the soul towards hell as a result. What's more, whatever benefit you get from magic, will be of no avail beyond the grave, because you can't take anything with you when you die. Religion on the other hand asks us to be patient with the miseries of living on earth and to love God, knowing that eternal life is the reward for these things.

>>845501

Doesn't matter. Most of the stuff they talk about on 4chan /x/ has nothing to do with spirituality. A Buddhist monk said this when asked about that kind of stuff, seeing the future etc, he said Buddhism has nothing to say about that kind of stuff, Buddhism deals with how to end suffering, period.

Every "scientist", and most are atheist (((Scientist))) when confronted with the Big Bang hit the wall of the supernatural. It is literally non-science to form a hypothesis about what created the universe.

Then you have the "String theorist" and others like Einstein's Hidden variable theory that try and make the universe mechanical and reject quantum mechanics.

God's finger guides his creations every move thought quantum events; Again the supernatural wall.

>>845501

It's all real, doubly so if someone says it isn't. You can't honestly expect me to trust a species so adamantly opposed to God's will.

I grew up Christian and fell out of the faith because my primary religious authority (locally and in the household) was my father. I didn't come to hate Christianity or anything, but eventually my doubt and inquiry surpassed his patience for doing apologetics and I simply stopped believing. At the time, he wasn't nearly as well-versed in things as he is now.

One of my best friends from high school, who I rarely see around from time to time now, is still a practicing Christian, and he's spoken to me on the topic at length (I invited him to do so). I've always envied his faith. Something in me simply tells me this is all there is, the actual gaps in explanation from pure materialism be damned, and I hate that, but all the conversation and reading in the world simply has never allowed me to make that leap of faith, however comforting it would be considered.

What am I missing? Why do I constantly deal with this dread (which apparently isn't a constant with others) and fail to be able to honestly consider Christianity in favor of the more pessimistic "truth"?

I was making my own thread for this, but the board admin doesn't allow TOR users to make new threads.

>>845589

In what way?

Pic related in your post is God in the setting.

>>845553

I know what you mean, I was there about 3 years ago, when I was burned out by politics. I was a total pessimist.

But here's the truth; you have said to yourself "to have hope is illegitimate I must be hopeless." You have made a value-judgement about hope that isn't supported by the facts. True, we will never know for certain in this life if we are right to be Christians. Faith is not certain knowledge.

But I can tell, right now you are torn, because you see the good of hope, but are hesitant to embrace it.

>It would be comforting

Faith is not comforting, there has been nothing less comforting that has ever happened to me, but I can't turn my back on it. Some days it seems like I could comfortably become secular again, but that world is forbidden to me because I now have eyes to see that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. It's not comfortable, but He is the true way, and I have always pursued truth, and nothing else will do as a substitute.

>>845672

A supreme being playing firm but fair seems like more comfort than existence being an Indian gift from an uncaring void

>>845698

>A supreme being playing firm but fair seems like more comfort than existence being an Indian gift from an uncaring void

If an atheist conceived of God, he would make this God much more comforting than any Christian would make God, since this God would never require any moral effort, never demand belief in any doctrine, and this atheist concept of God would generally be a God who pretends to not exist. He would allow everything, forgive everything, and give all people eternal sleep when they died.

This God that any atheist could come up with, is extremely comforting but deeply unsatisfactory.

I think you might begin to see the hole in your reasoning when you consider that people don't believe in God to get comfort, but to get that which God alone can give. In other words and to use Aristotle's terminology, belief in God is about catharsis, but never about comfort. I'm not reassured by the existence of God, God is not a narcotic drug, an opium as Marx derided faith, God is a stimulant, an exhortation, "the voice of one calling in the wilderness, make straight the way of the Lord" (Matthew 3:3).

This is the reason hope is not illegitimate, because hope doesn't put you to sleep, hope awakens you to the truth that there is a God in whom one can find satisfaction.

>>845750

I think you have the wrong conception of God as I imagine it: I refer to the Christian god that I find comforting, not an impersonal one.

>>845876

Oh, well, I personally find God neither too comforting nor too uncomfortable. Sometimes he lets me be in peace, other times the Christian life is filled with strife for me.

But my belief is neither personal nor impersonal, but leans impersonal. Jesus Christ is almost like first contact with alien life to me. What comforts me is that this Intelligence is of good will towards us. I don't mean that Christianity is like Erich Von Daniken "Chariots of the Gods" kind of stuff, God is not an alien species, but if you extend first contact with aliens to mean with any intelligence not from this earth, then God does fit the bill.

As I said, I find comfort in the idea that this God is of good will, but I'm not sure I would describe this good will as firm but fair. I am not so blind to suffering in the world to call it fair, but God says that his understanding is greater than mine. In other words I am obedient to God, but I don't base that obedience on a belief that God is playing by human standards of fairness. I see good reasons to reject human standards altogether; the Bible says that the heart of man is evil, I happen to agree because I've seen enough in myself and in others to agree.

So I don't have this necessary connection between morality and God. God commands moral behaviour, love your enemies, do not kill, etc. but God is not moral behaviour, and God even says he will take vengeance and do things he forbids us to do, such as killing every firstborn in Egypt. I shrug these things off because God is God, he deserves my unconditional love and respect, just like my natural father deserves my love and respect. Of course, both God and my father were instrumental in why I exist, so I strive to honour both in the measure due to each. Really I don't see how it would be right to do otherwise.

>>845501

It's so obviously real that rejection of it is delusional. Compare US to Rome. Every civilization is more perverse than the last. Sumer and their obsession with the supernatural was probably the closest to the real Truth humanity ever got. And don't cite computers to me as evidence we're better. I have a comsci degree and binary was invented all the way back in Jesus' day and the likeness of Boolean Logic was understood by the Greeks long before then. But also don't take it too far the other way. I'm saying Sumer probably got a lot right not the Hollywood depictions of the supernatural.