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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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File: ddd41763cf9204e⋯.jpg (179.73 KB, 1200x975, 16:13, Ceg1knxW8AAb261.jpg)

d0eb2a  No.845459[Last 50 Posts]

How can you believe in the Gospels knowing they were written more than half a century after Jesus' death meaning they are the result of decades of illiterate and uneducated 1st century death cultists continuously sharing stories by word of mouth until a few were selected and written down? There is surely no way stories were made up and/or modified during those decades of chinese whispers…

____________________________
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74c2bb  No.845465

None of these are necessarily contradictions

The gospels were firsthand accounts

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c1af81  No.845466

1. If one account says X went, and another says X and Y went, that isn't a contradiction. Reason: because the first account didn't specifically say that Y did not go. Same answer for 3, 4 and 6.

2. If one account says it was "very early in the morning" and the other account says it was "still dark," that isn't a contradiction.

3. See 1.

4. See 1.

5. The appearance in Matthew 28 was to the other women that were telling the other disciples and it happened after the first appearance in Mark 16:9. That isn't a contradiction because one happened before the other. Also, you forgot to include that this first appearance is also in John 20:14-18 which lines up with Mark 16, but you marked N/A for John.

6. See 1.

7. The part where they go into Galilee is not immediate, there is the account of the lies that the chief priests told the soldiers before Matthew 28:16. So it's false and misleading to state that they quickly went to Galilee, and that is the only reason you can make it appear to contradict because they did eventually go to Galilee in all accounts.

8. Mark 16 is talking about the same two on the road to Emmaus as Luke 24. So the accounts of Mark and Luke are in agreement. The other appearances are after that and you can't show where they were all separately claimed to be the first. They were later appearances unless otherwise specified, so no contradiction.

9. The part about staying in Jerusalem is a quote of Jesus. Matthew 28:7 is a quote of the angel saying the Lord is going before them to Galilee. It's different people speaking. Matthew 28:7 is nothing other than what was also said back in Matthew 26:32. They aren't actually told to go there in the quote itself (hence your chart is literally inaccurate), but it says they shall see him there. Later, they do go there. This is also the same as what Mark 16:7 says, but you marked it N/A. No contradiction because one is a prediction of where they will meet him, the other is he himself commanding them to tarry for now in Jerusalem.

10. Mark only says "So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God", and the passage does not specify a location. It can't be contradicting what Luke said if it doesn't specify a location. Luke meanwhile wrote the book of Acts and he didn't contradict himself because Bethany is on the slopes of the Mount of Olivet. This mountain is to the east of Jerusalem according to Zechariah 14, and Bethany is also "nigh unto Jerusalem" according to John 11.

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d0eb2a  No.845467

>>845466

What did the women see at the tomb?

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74c2bb  No.845468

File: 4bd7103ea3a2889⋯.jpg (802.46 KB, 1079x2231, 1079:2231, 1599535112685.jpg)

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d0eb2a  No.845469

>>845468

>if there were two angels in the tomb, then there was at least one.

Do you even read what you post? Christian apologetics are embarrassingly and laughably pathetic. All four Gospels clearly contradict each other, this is clear even to someone with down syndrome. Zero credibility.

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74c2bb  No.845470

>>845469

>this is clear even to someone with down syndrome.

Speaking from experience?

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efe922  No.845471

Witnesses giving the exact same version of a story would not be considered credible in court as each person would see an event from a slightly different point of view. Explanation of this in, "The Case for Christ," book.

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d0eb2a  No.845472

File: fb051287954facd⋯.jpg (78.77 KB, 720x768, 15:16, noah_and_penguins.jpg)

>>845470

You're wasting your life believing in a primitive death cult from the 1st century.

The creator, if there is one, of the Universe, the billions of galaxies and solar systems never asked the jews to cut off their foreskins, he never impregnated a young girl with himself to sacrifice himself to himself, Joseph was a cuckold, Mary an adulteress. The Flood never happened, the Exodus never happened, King Solomon never authored the proverbs, Joshua never made the sun stand still for an entire day, heliocentrism is real, there will be no apocalypse with Jesus coming down from the sky on a flying white horse, the "new Jerusalem" is a farce, eternal torture is psychopathic and monstrous, Hell isn't real, Heaven is as real as Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. Science is real, evolution is real, humans are not "created in God's image", we're just intelligent primates who share common ancestry with chimps and DNA with all other animals on Earth.

Stop crying crocodile tears about aborted fetuses you don't sincerely care about while defending your war god's order to slaughter children and babies in 1 Samuel 15:3 among other atrocities. Religion is dying in developed countries with high standards of living and education, the younger generations are becoming more and more secular, there is simply no future for abrahamic cults, when you preach your faith to non-believers you sound like a clueless imbecile who needs urgent mental treatment. Sexual desire is a healthy human psychological feeling, considering virginity "sacred" is silly and primitive, no sky daddy is judging you for touching yourself, no one is hearing your useless prayers, you can listen to all the little chants and hymns you want on YouTube and LARP as Mr. Traditional all you want but Jesus is dead, decomposed and never coming back.

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74c2bb  No.845473

File: 6292e31fa8b058b⋯.png (742.17 KB, 529x768, 529:768, 1594179408774.png)

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d0eb2a  No.845474

>>845473

Cope. You will never go to Heaven, never.

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d3f7cb  No.845475

>>845459

We need better moderation, this isn't r/Debatechristianity, this is a place where Christians come to talk specifically to other Christians.

>>845472

With each passing year, you atheists and leftist cohorts get more and more shrill. I can't help but wonder at you; the more victorious you are in public life, the angrier and angrier you get. God only knows what's wrong with you all.

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d0eb2a  No.845476

>>845475

Read Genesis 5 out loud in front of the mirror and try not to smile.

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7cfd6d  No.845477

>>845459

The kikes who wrote the talmud unironically say they want Christians to obey matthew.

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d3f7cb  No.845479

>>845476

Reading the Bible always makes me smile. You poor thing; you rage and rage, because we have faith that you've denied to yourself. You may secretly even blame it on science, but in reality it is only your choice to not have faith.

There are a number of things you hate about Christians, you especially hate that we can have the courage to believe what you call laughable. Meanwhile, you're so spineless that if you had an opinion that someone laughed at, you would immediately have another opinion. I know how cowardly you are; it explains why you're here. Do you get in the face of Christians irl? No, because that would probably require leaving the basement.

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d0eb2a  No.845481

>>845479

>you rage and rage

You project and project.

>it is only your choice to not have faith

It's not a question of choice, it's a question of examinating the silly claims.

>we can have the courage to believe what you call laughable

No, not the courage, the stupidity.

>if you had an opinion that someone laughed at, you would immediately have another opinion

Uh, no, I am a free-thinker, unlike death cultists like you.

>Do you get in the face of Christians irl?

Absolutely and I realise everytime that most actually know very little about their own religion.

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d3f7cb  No.845482

>>845481

How do you know that we are a death cult? Are those words a result of sincere reflection or dishonest rhetoric?

Perhaps you might have read, if you had read the Bible, that God is a God of life, not of death.

>Absolutely I get in the face of Christians

You're just a coward, if you get in anyone's face it's with 20 of your friends behind you.

>Not the courage, the stupidity

What is so terribly stupid in your mind? You can't have based this belief in how the resurrection accounts differ, since you are probably dishonest enough that if you saw the words of the gospel exactly match, you would say it was collusion among witnesses.

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d0eb2a  No.845484

>>845482

>How do you know that we are a death cult?

Christianity has always been centered around death. Human sacrifice, voluntary martyrdom, romanticisation of suffering and death, rejecting earthly life and healthy living, enduring guilt and psychological anguish, severe repression, etc. etc. there is nothing lively about Christianity, it is very harmful for the spirit. As a Christian you are not free, you are the slave of a delusional rogue rabbi and his promises whom you believe to be divine, awaiting his return and the end of the world that has been "imminent" for 2000 years, hoping you will be "saved". The reality is that none of his claims were true, he never rose from the dead, the end is not nigh, you don't need to be saved from anything and you don't deserve to be tortured for all of eternity for being "born a sinner", you are not cursed and have the possibility to free yourself from the shackles of this death cult that has poisoned your mind.

>God is a God of life, not of death

If you had read the Bible you would know how much of a bloodthirsty killing-machine your war god Yahweh is.

>What is so terribly stupid in your mind?

The entire theology.

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7cfd6d  No.845485

I used to be worried that some people might find atheist stupidity persuasive and leave Christianity. Now I'm worried atheists might find Christian intelligence persuasive and bring their stupidity here.

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d0eb2a  No.845486

>>845485

>atheists stupid, christians smart xD

Why are you afraid to address my OP's question? Show me that "Christian intelligence".

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d0eb2a  No.845490

File: 4ef9084f5f1250c⋯.jpg (12.58 KB, 250x247, 250:247, 516ab088c132ee99e8143981e5….jpg)

>>845489

Despite all this speculation, chinese whispers still lasted decades.

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d70788  No.845491

>>845459 (OP)

Not half a century. Within 30 years. Probably much earlier. Do the math here. I'll help.

Luke isn't the first Gospel, and possibly the third (after Mark and Matthew), and yet he also wrote the Acts of the Apostles afterwards, which ends on a cliffhanger, with Paul heading to Rome. Acts mentions nothing about Paul's execution or about the destruction of Jerusalem. Why? The Siege of Jerusalem was a monumental event that even writers outside the bible wrote about. It was important enough for the Emperor Vespasian to commemorate in coins. It was the largest slaughter of Jews in history before the Holocaust (although I'm aware I'm at a place where anons don't believe the Holocaust numbers. kek). In short, it was the "talk of the town" in the 1st century. Why would Luke pass this up, when Jerusalem was already so central to his Gospel and to the book of Acts? He just suddenly decided to leave it all out?

Later sources also say that Peter and Paul died in Rome after Nero's infamous fire and later persecution of Christians. This puts Paul and Peter's deaths at 64 AD at the earliest and 68 AD at the latest, when Nero himself died. There's a two year period here that Luke just skips over and would have been the most important of his work, if he had included it? Why would he do that?

Occam's Razor would say that Luke didn't write about these things - because they didn't happen yet. So if Jesus died in AD 30, and Luke wrote his Acts of the Apostles before 64 AD (before those events I mentioned) - then that also means his Gospel was written even earlier. He opens the book of Acts addressing his audience and mentions his Gospel. He already had a "bestseller", so to speak. It would have taken him awhile to write the Gospel, then had it distributed, then work on yet another work with Acts. All before 64 AD. Additionally, Luke himself tells you that "many have undertaken" the writing of the Gospels before him, and he was a latebloomer, so to speak. It would follow that the Gospels in general were already being written down before the 60s AD. Enough that both Luke and his audience already knew of them. That's within 30 years, as I said. More than likely, before that.

Luke was acquainted with Mark's Gospel enough for one to assume that Mark's Gospel already had time to incubate and be copied by hand multiple times and distributed on foot across the Roman empire. Jerusalem up to, say, Turkey, is already near 1800 km or something. For something like Mark to have already spread across the empire, it would have taken awhile. Years. I think it's likely that he finished his own work in 50s.

Matthew on the other hand has a much more Jewish centric character and is more concerned with matters of Torah, prophecy fulfillment of interest to Jews, and land issues of interest to Jews - so it's natural to assume his Gospel was earlier than Luke's and came at a time when the target audience was still largely Jews and Jews in Palestine. It makes more sense that it has a very early 60s date at the latest. Not just for reflecting a strong Jewish centric flavor than Luke, but the window for that to even have happened would have ended by the 70s. The rift between Jews and Christians was already brewing after the 70s. Romans had already begun exiling Jewish survivors out of Palestine. And what little enclaves of Jewish communities existed, there was a growing rift with Christians. Christians were kicked out of the Jewish community, and no longer held synagogue services with them. They were finally becoming separate entities. So it makes little sense that Matthew just popped up in the middle of all of that at a late period and started addressing the Jewish community as "reachable" or even were worth the effort.

>>845490

Sorry, you must've been quoting me. I edited for typos. But if that's the only reply you have, God help you. You're not even trying to be inquisitive.

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d0eb2a  No.845492

>>845491

>You're not even trying to be inquisitive.

You're missing the point.

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c1af81  No.845500

>>845484

Know what's ironic though? Your presence is a fulfillment of prophecy. Because it was said in the later days people like this would come, therefore it was required for the fulfillment of the prophecy that they must necessarily come.

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6f4c32  No.845509

>>845459

>To anyone who demands every verse, please read your bible. It's all in there!

Imagine waking up everyday being this pretentious. What's the difficulty of making a proper infograph?

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25ddb5  No.845512

>>845509

>What's the difficulty of making a proper infograph?

This.

Christian and jewish scriptures have had chapter and verse divisions for a thousand years by now.

It's not difficult.

And saw the fb page in the infographic, too.

It's just as pretentious and fedora-ish as you'd imagine.

Fortunately, given the New Atheism movement collapsed a decade ago, most of it's posts get like 4-5 reactions, and if it's something big, 30ish.

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d3f7cb  No.845523

>>845484

I was worried for a second, but now I realize that, true to my prediction, you don't really have an argument anymore than Richard Dawkins. If I found his thoughts petty, yours are even more so.

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d0eb2a  No.845530

>>845500

Very low IQ post. It's been the "last days" for 2000 years and people have been criticising your death cult for those same 2000 years.

>>845509

>>845512

>i-it's pretentious!

Not an argument, the contradictions remain. Your scriptures have no credibility and Jesus is still dead.

>the New Atheism movement collapsed a decade ago

Is this how you cope? Who cares about that movement? Your religion is still dying. Enjoy eating the flesh and blood of your death cult leader with octogenarians I guess.

>>845523

My points are valid and you know it, you haven't defended your position. Why are you such a dishonest coward?

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d0eb2a  No.845531

1 Samuel 15:3

Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.

>Christians defend this and cry crocodile tears about fetuses

>Christians whine about "the devil" yet want everyone to be a slave to this bloodthirsty monster

>Christians think this abomination of a god is a source of morality, love and will give them eternal life

Talk about being lost and deceived! LMAO

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410039  No.845535

File: 6a8b489936dc375⋯.jpg (42.77 KB, 558x614, 279:307, Jon_Galvin.jpg)

>>845459

>Christianity is a death cult

For the Calvinists, it would seem yes. The rest of us know atonement is of no effect without the resurrection.

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d0eb2a  No.845536

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45d8b2  No.845537

You know it would be nice to list all your problems so we could answer them unstead of ranting like a dumbass. Or are you just here to troll?

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d0eb2a  No.845538

>>845537

How about you start by addressing my very first post? Are you confused or stupid?

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6f4c32  No.845540

>>845530

I didn't try to make an argument.

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d0eb2a  No.845544

>>845540

Why are you not addressing the contradictions?

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1dcc96  No.845551

>>845472

>death cult

Strange accusation considering nations guided by Atheist philosophies have the highest kill counts

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8be11d  No.845552

File: cc725f0790f5a37⋯.jpeg (32.12 KB, 425x326, 425:326, DonCorleoni.jpeg)

>>845530

True, I haven't defended my position, but I don't stand in need of justifying myself to you. You won't be convinced by anything anyway, so I won't bother argue.

I was merely happy to see you abandon the argument that the gospel narratives all conflict. If you had kept up with it, and proven why the differences in the narratives of the four gospels present a serious impediment to belief in God, then of course, I would have been shocked, and probably repented of believing at all, but you ignored this, demonstrating the truth that witnesses must differ in some particulars or their witness is not credible. Fortunately you are also as much of an ignoramus as every other atheist, so I will continue to believe.

In short, you have come to my board, and showed me no respect. You've lost my vote, and that's the end of it.

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d0eb2a  No.845558

File: aa930e6f1ae9b68⋯.jpg (178.69 KB, 800x566, 400:283, 42381.jpg)

>>845551

>whataboutism

Christianity remains a death cult for the reasons I've mentioned and those "kill counts" you speak of are not caused in the name of a faith in particular, unlike:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Wars_of_Religion

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War

and that's just three examples. Study history.

>>845552

>You won't be convinced by anything anyway, so I won't bother argue.

You're just copping out.

>see you abandon the argument that the gospel narratives all conflict.

How did I abandon that argument? They do all conflict with each other.

>why the differences in the narratives of the four gospels present a serious impediment to belief in God

You don't see the issue with the most important alleged event of Christianity, the resurrection of Yeshu, being detailed in contradicting ways?

>the truth that witnesses must differ in some particulars or their witness is not credible

If Laura says that you raped her in your room while your buddy held her down then later in court says that you raped her in the shower when you were both alone, is her accusation credible?

>showed me no respect

You threaten the "infidels" with eternal torture if they don't become slaves to your death cult leader, don't play the victim.

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6f4c32  No.845560

>>845544

I just found that remark more interesting.

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6f4c32  No.845561

>>845552

based donposter

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8be11d  No.845563

>>845558

>If Laura says that you raped her in your room while your buddy held her down then later in court says that you raped her in the shower when you were both alone, is her accusation credible?

Once again, you show me no respect by calling me a rapist. But once again, the situation is not equivalent. Christ's resurrection is more like if I rob a house, and one witness says I went in through a broken window, and another says I went in through a door. Well, the two are evidently reconcilable; perhaps I broke in through the window, only to later unlock and open the door? One witness can arrive at 10:33 and see me break through the door, and another can see me at 11:05, opening up a door I had already unlocked in order to help myself to more stuff!

>You threaten with eternal torture

Not everyone sees the merit of God's ways, but since you are an atheist, you should be more circumspect, since eternal torture is nothing other than an imaginary evil according to you. You can't be indignant about words, you know the proverb; sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Unless you're a pussy that is…

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d0eb2a  No.845564

File: 41a717725b9f1ac⋯.jpg (48.86 KB, 488x351, 488:351, smug_face_picture_id510413….jpg)

>>845563

>evidently reconcilable

What did the women see at the tomb?

>Not everyone sees the merit of God's ways

Empty phrase. Eternal torture is irrational, psychopathic and monstrous anyway.

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8be11d  No.845568

>>845564

>What did the women see?

The women at the tomb saw that the tomb was empty, in this their witness does not differ at all.

>Eternal torture is monstrous

But it is an empty phrase, since as you say, God does not exist, and therefore, neither does eternal torture. The reason why you find empty phrases to be monstrous is either because (i) you know that they are not empty words deep down, or (ii) you are a sissy who can't stand the idea that someone doesn't think well of you and your choices. I'm very willing to believe it's the latter, and you are a very cowardly and weak individual.

I mean, Islamists say I'm going to hell for shirk, and I still don't give a f*ck, nor do I call their assertions "monstrous." I don't find the assertions of Islam monstrous; they are what they are, and they don't mean a thing to me.

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74c2bb  No.845569

Stop bumping bait threads

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d0eb2a  No.845572

File: b8db62387b77aba⋯.jpg (44.79 KB, 600x848, 75:106, 4f9.jpg)

>>845568

>The women at the tomb saw that the tomb was empty

Absolutely no one was inside the tomb? What did they see exactly?

>in this their witness does not differ at all

In this? So where does it differ?

>But it is an empty phrase, since as you say, God does not exist, and therefore, neither does eternal torture

It is not an empty phrase, I am describing the concept of hell, whether it is real or not (spoiler: it's not).

>you find empty phrases to be monstrous

Your reading comprehension is awful. I'm still not seeing that "Christian intelligence" some anon mentioned.

>(i) you know that they are not empty words deep down, or (ii) you are a sissy who can't stand the idea that someone doesn't think well of you and your choices

(III) Torturing people for all of eternity for "crimes" such as touching themselves is monstrous.

>you are a very cowardly and weak individual

Says the mental midget who worships a dead rogue rabbi because he's afraid of death and wants to believe in heaven like a child.

>nor do I call their assertions "monstrous."

Because you have a lot in common with your abrahamic brothers.

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8be11d  No.845574

>>845572

>What did they see exactly?

If today a gravedigger were standing in a grave, we would still call the grave "empty" since the only thing that can logically make a grave "full" is a corpse. The same rule of speech applies to tombs. I wouldn't want you as a lawyer, everyone can see through such petty equivocation.

Your arguments get more laughable by the post. I thought this one was a gem of stupidity though:

>Torturing people for all of eternity for "crimes" such as touching themselves is monstrous.

Top kek, maybe you actually have to read the Bible, wherein masturbation is not once mentioned I might add. What is really funny is even though you criticize me for not immediately understanding the ambiguities of your sentences, but you render that point moot by calling eternal torture for masturbation "monstrous." Demonstrating that you are hurt by mere words.

But, in spite of your best efforts to prove that you love me, and are trying to save me from stupidity as a friend, you demonstrate that you hate me as much as the Islamists do. My beliefs are "monstrous" so I should be killed. Well, if you think like that I give as much of a f*ck about what you have to say as I give a f*ck about what the Islamists have to say. You are the same to me.

>I don't hate Islamists because I have much in common with other abrahamists

No, I am told to love them with the same impartial love with which God loves all mankind. Therefore I do not hate them, nor do I wish to hate people who are misguided, just because they are misguided, and I don't hate you either. If God loves a sinner like myself, then I do not see how I can justly hate anyone else.

If you want Bible verses that confirm my truthfulness, consider the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant (Matthew 18, from verse 21).

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d0eb2a  No.845623

File: 511f49b80105766⋯.jpg (131.42 KB, 660x880, 3:4, qqaibflj3tv11.jpg)

>>845574

>If today a gravedigger were standing in a grave, we would still call the grave "empty"

Stop being obtuse. Who did the women see at the tomb?

>Your arguments get more laughable by the post.

They are so "funny" that you are unable to refute them, truly funny, haha (not fooling me).

>you actually have to read the Bible

I am probably more familiar with it than you, as I used to be very serious about Christian apologetics.

>masturbation is not once mentioned

Masturbation has always been considered a "sexually immoral" act by Christian theologians, your view is unorthodox and heretical.

>you render that point moot by calling eternal torture for masturbation "monstrous."

No, the point still stands as masturbation being sinful or not does not change the fact that your "loving" god is willing to torture people for all of eternity for doing things that upset him, which is indescribably psychopathic and irrational.

>you are hurt by mere words

???

>in spite of your best efforts to prove that you love me

I don't love you as I don't know you and see no reason to love you. You see, I'm not a Christian with that fake "love" for everyone, while being fine with them being tortured for all of eternity if they don't become slaves to your rabbi.

>you hate me as much as the Islamists do

I hate your death cult, not you as an individual.

>My beliefs are "monstrous" so I should be killed.

When did I ever imply this? Congratulations for demonstrating that you are a death cultist, obsessed with death, martyrdom and persecution.

>You are the same to me.

We both know very well that you have much more in common with islamists than atheists do, you are being disingenuous.

>the same impartial love with which God loves all mankind

This is nonsense. If you are willing to torture a person for all of eternity, you clearly don't love them. Would you shackle your beloved daughter in your basement and torture her to death if she made you angry?

>consider the Parable of the Unforgiving Servant

Consider 1 Corinthians 15:14,19.

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432ba9  No.849240

>>845465

they are passage copied whole sale from gospel to gospel, they clearly weren't first hand witness. Nobody even claimed they were until long after the author were dead

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e2704d  No.849264

>>845623

>If you are willing to torture a person for all of eternity, you clearly don't love them

Don't worry, that's why the Christian religion exists. There is still a way out of the inevitable that is going to happen to you without it.

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683518  No.850003

File: 9bf8b49981f1b6f⋯.jpg (34.43 KB, 500x499, 500:499, come_on_now.jpg)

>>845459

>To anyone who demoands every verse; please read your BIble. It's all in there!

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fec2a3  No.850004

>>845459

I simply don't care. Atheoids spend 24/7 thinking about the validity of things while never considering the value of things beyond "reality". God bless you bro.

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d70788  No.850012

>>845459

Did I already reply to this? They're earlier than half a century. That's indicative just by internal evidence alone. The book of Acts ends on a cliffhanger, when Paul or Peter aren't even in Rome yet. They were arrested at least by 68 AD, when Nero was still alive. Luke also doesn't mention AD 70, when Jerusalem was finally destroyed. The negation of these events means the book of Acts was written before AD 68 at the very least. Then the fact that Acts itself is just a sequel to Luke places Luke before AD 68. On top of that, Luke himself was a later compiler of existing traditions. He used Mark and other eyewitnesses. So if Luke is already before AD 68, then Mark and Matthew definitely are. Mark was compiled by Mark hearing the words of Peter. This is considered the oldest tradition of a collection of Peter's storytelling. Matthew was addressed to Jews, and which is also a red flag that it's placed before AD 70. He's still speaking of a Jewish population, and even a Jewish Christian population thriving in Judaea. Both of these would be 50s-early 60s at the latest. That's already half off your false estimate of "half of a century". More like a quarter of a century.

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9bf1a8  No.850015

>>850004

THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

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c1af81  No.850019

>>850012

>Mark was compiled by Mark hearing the words of Peter.

I am pretty sure you mean it was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Were you there or something, to contradict what Paul says in 2 Timothy that all scripture is given by inspiration of God? And I would ask that question to whoever told you that myth as well. They don't know the first thing about what they're talking about, they are ignorant of the Bible.

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d70788  No.850026

>>850019

>I am pretty sure you mean it was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

That goes without saying, but no one knows the exact mechanism of divine inspiration. Not you. Not me. Just like we don't know the exact nature of the Trinity or where the human will ends and Predestination begins. These are all examples of divine mystery and aren't worth arguing about. It is enough to acknowledge them and move forward to other matters. Arguing about them leads to needless debate, since we're all in the dark here on earth on how all of these work. We are required to only have faith in them. Not understand them and pick them apart.

In this case, it's a mystery how the Holy Spirit interacts with preacher, prophet, or Apostle. It's enough to assert that he does. But he uses human means in many cases. Peter relayed his witness and Mark wrote it down. This is the witness of Papias, and in fact, why we even call it the "Gospel of Mark" with any authority. Papias was a disciple of the Apostle John himself. He knew John, and Phillip's family personally, and relayed a lot of important information on matters like this. It was John who told him that Mark was dictated by Peter, by his assistant Mark:

"The Elder used to say: Mark, in his capacity as Peter’s interpreter, wrote down accurately as many things as he recalled from memory—though not in an ordered form—of the things either said or done by the Lord. For he neither heard the Lord nor accompanied him, but later, as I said, Peter, who used to give his teachings in the form of chreiai (brief lessons), but had no intention of providing an ordered arrangement of the logia of the Lord."

Papias wrote that circa 100 AD. Just the nature of it's origins is enough to call it inspired by the Holy Spirit too. It is already of divine origin by virtue of Peter relaying his experience with the Son of God, that he saw with his own eyes and heard with his own ears. Just as John said it of himself too: "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us." - 1 John 1:3

Christians are not Muslims. Muslims have a rigorous view of inspiration, that holds that Muhammad literally was dictated words in the Quran. But that is never how the Church taught inspiration.

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c1af81  No.850034

>>850026

>This is considered the oldest tradition of a collection of Peter's storytelling.

This is what you formerly wrote. Nothing about inspiration in there, so I will go with the inspired 2 Timothy description of events, over it being described as a collection of storytelling which might be seen as giving it a more human origin than it has. As if it were just some other invention.

>In this case, it's a mystery how the Holy Spirit interacts with preacher, prophet, or Apostle.

Well it says specifically that all scripture is given by inspiration of God in one place. In another place, that holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

We have enough specificity to know that God inspired the words of the Gospel of Mark, we say they are inspired by reference to the specific scripture passages saying that they are. That is a better, more biblical way to go about things, and less likely to cause confusion with other non-inspired things.

>Just the nature of it's origins is enough to call it inspired by the Holy Spirit too.

According to the word of Christ in John 8:47, the case is simply that, he that is of God hears God's words. That is how people came to believe God manifest in the flesh during his earthly ministry. They heard those words and believed. It goes hand in hand with numerous passages, just to cite one Paul wrote in Romans x. 17 that "faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Or also Acts iv. 4. "Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed; and the number of the men was about five thousand."

Or also what about John viii. 30 "As he spake these words, many believed on him."

>It is already of divine origin by virtue of Peter relaying his experience with the Son of God

If you read John xvii. 8, you see that Jesus infallibly states that he has given them his word specifically. This is more specific than what you might call an "experience" because it involves something concrete and set in stone. Words can be inscribed in stone and never change, you can guarantee it. It is these words then which the writer of Hebrews states in Heb. i. 2 that God has, "in these last days spoken unto us by his Son" just as he spoke in the past before this through prophets. We have apostles and prophets, specific people to whom a specific word was revealed, supernaturally by God as it says, as mentioned in 2 Peter i. 21. Peter himself says that no prophecy of the scripture is of private interpretation, for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Peter, the apostle in Scripture, says clearly that it was not man's will by which the prophecy came, but rather that holy men of God were moved by the Holy Ghost.

We also know from 1 Peter i. 23-25 that the word of God is incorruptible and never fades away as well, unlike man's sayings. We can confidently know that through the providence of the Creator, it was recorded and continues to be used today in its pure, unaltered state. This generation has it today, in what is called the received text, just as each generation before had. We have had it handed down unchanged, or have "received" it. It is received by us now just as it was received unto those that carried it through time to us, and will be received perfectly intact by any later generations that may be coming. It is sort of like a heritage that never changes. Jude referred in vs. 3 to the faith which was once delivered to the saints.

>"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us." - 1 John 1:3

Yes, and in (1 John i. 1) that which all of them have heard and seen with their eyes, is also called the Word of life.

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