b0112d No.844684[Last 50 Posts]
Is it okay for Christians to take up arms and help fight during the coming second American civil war? Especially if Christian symbols are being vandalized like they currently are? I'm seriously ready for war because they are destroying statues and burning Churches.
____________________________
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
5b244c No.844687
>>844684
There is no civil war. Its sectarian violence at best.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
5bffe5 No.844688
<1 John 3:16-18
>Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
>But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
>My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
9dda94 No.844703
>>844688
The martyrs died for spreading the gospel. Not anything like this. And during that whole time of the early church when that Gospel was written, there was a parallel of Jews who were freedom fighters against the Romans (who ultimately were destroyed in AD 70). By your reasoning, these rebels were the actual servants of Jesus, while his Church was useless for not fighting with them.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
5b244c No.844704
>>844688
How do any of those verses justify violence against anyone?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
84ed5b No.844705
thou shall not kill. says it all ono one ever had permission to kill in name of religion or for God.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
927781 No.844721
>>844703
Saying the cause for a just war requires spreading the Gospel is setting the bar too high. In a just war, you defend your faith, family church and home from death and destruction.
Comparing Jews who believed they should rule the world and were fighting against the Romans who allowed them to have their own religion and pretty much rule themselves to Christians defending their churches and lives is also a bad comparison.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
9dda94 No.844735
>>844721
I only use the Jewish example because it's a direct parallel to the Church and was brewing right when Jesus was speaking these words. And while the context was first century Palestine, the principles apply to all humanity. Just about everything that the Jews did in the first century provides the greatest contrast to the Gospel. A good rule of thumb is: Whatever they did, don't do it! Don't free Barabbas. Don't wish for a warrior Messiah. Don't try to enact the kingdom of God with your own hands. Don't barricade yourself in Masada and fight bloody rebellions. These are all paths of death.
I've tried to read Augustine on just war. I think there might be room for it, but the examples of things meeting the requirements are slim. I think Augustine himself would have been appalled and in grief at the things justified in his name. Maybe the First Crusade was a mission purely for the defense the churches and Christian population, but it all went downhill afterwards. And as bad as those were, they still had a better case than this current one you're talking about. This isn't even about the Church, but America. And most of the fault is self-inflicted. God already gave these people the blessing to have the right to vote, and they all squandered it anyways and brought tyranny on their own heads. You can't save people like this. They have to learn the hard way.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f700d7 No.844740
The Bible says that a man who doesn't provide for his family is worse than a pagan. Wouldn't providing for your family entail providing safety? Why wouldn't you use violence to ensure the safety of your family?
You not only have the right to use violence against anyone who threatens your family, but God demands it of you.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
9dda94 No.844743
>>844740
That's not about war. It's just provision in general. Do you need to start murdering people for bread? What kind of hellscape do you live in where you can't just a get a job and provide for loved ones?
The whole context of that verse is about widows specifically too. Paul is saying that it shouldn't fall on the churches first to provide for a widow, but that their family needs to step in:
"Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. But if a widow has children or grandchildren, these should learn first of all to put their religion into practice by caring for their own family and so repaying their parents and grandparents, for this is pleasing to God. The widow who is really in need and left all alone puts her hope in God and continues night and day to pray and to ask God for help. But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives. Give the people these instructions, so that no one may be open to blame. Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." - 1 Timothy 5:3-8
The larger context is Paul is writing to Timothy, who is a younger Bishop, and giving him instructions on how to supervise his congregation and prioritizing who's in most need of service. It's not about you, and some isolated proverb on how Rambo Jesus tells you to kill people. Get a grip.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f700d7 No.844745
>>844743
Okay, so when the communists come to kill your family, you're going to sit and watch because you don't like violence. Good to know.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
f700d7 No.844749
>>844743
So what you're saying is that you can give bread to widows, but you can't protect them from getting murdered.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
9dda94 No.844765
>>844745
I already live in the middle of Texas. This is God's country. Or as close as America comes at least. It isn't happening anytime soon. We already prepared ourselves far beforehand and created a way of life for ourselves so we don't have to entertain last minute panic ridden thoughts about communists.
>>844749
Protection doesn't require murder.
You guys are thinking no better than the Jews who cried for a warrior Messiah. You're no better than Muslims either. Perhaps these are better fits for you? Because contrary to popular belief, Muslims believe in Jesus. They just hate the real one. Is that how you feel? They can not tolerate the idea of the cross or loving one's enemies. They worship themselves and the idea of masculinity instead. They created a new "warlord Jesus" to replace the scriptures and deny that he even sacrificed himself on the cross. That it was all somehow a trick:
"That they said in boast, 'We killed the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah'; but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no certain knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not." - Surah 4 v. 157
ISIS believed in Jesus so much that they thought he was going to come and rescue them, pat them on their backs for their atrocities, and usher in the apocalypse. When it comes down to it, they're no different than the "Deus Vult" types.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
8f8291 No.844766
Violence over symbols, statues and even churches is not justified. Christian morality in violence is governed by the non aggression principle.
>>844765
>I already live in the middle of Texas. This is God's country. Or as close as America comes at least.
Texas is one of the worst places to be strategically if you're talking about a conflict. We are way past the demographic tipping point, especially if you look at under 4s.
If surviveability is the primary objective get out now and move to Idaho, that's what I did.
If you're envisioning a doomsday subsistence lifestyle you can of course do that most anywhere provided you're far enough from any population centers and can defend your own.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
7b864b No.844767
>>844765
The jews wanted the messiah to use force to make the gentiles racemix into an identityless mass they could enslave. Jesus tricking them is the narrative the muslims need to cope with the fact that without a resurrection Jesus doesn't "win" against them. Yes Jesus told Peter to sheathe his sword but He's the one who told Peter to carry a sword in the first place. Obviously, He intended it for Peter to be safe not Himself. Not all of us live in a conservative sanctuary. God doesn't want His people to just die off because of where they're located.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
777354 No.844773
>>844767
>The jews wanted the messiah to use force to make the gentiles racemix
With whom, you sodding mouth-breather?
This is what the ancients believed the world map looks like.
I swear, you jew-obsessed, race-obsessed morons are so autistic about your stormfaggotry, you try to time-travel your neuroses about blacks and jews into everything.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
2017b3 No.844777
>>844684
between them or my family getting the rope, it's an easy choice.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
9dda94 No.844783
>>844766
>We are way past the demographic tipping point
I don't know what you mean by that. Are you referring to race? If so, there's always been a lot of Mexicans here. And I'm not even fully white myself. I'm better off here than with some people on this board, who think I'm an abomination for being mixed race. Hah. Or part of some Jewish conspiracy, according to this anon >>844767. And either way, many Mexicans here are family oriented or Catholic anyways. Religion is the only demographic I care about and Texas is still strong in that, be it Protestant or Catholic.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
ad46d3 No.844793
If anyone desires he can go to America and try help the Christians not be subject to the violence of the scourge of marxism and even come out on top of it.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
8dc1f2 No.844800
>>844765
Defending yourself is not murder. The law is DO NOT MURDER, not do not kill.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
777354 No.844803
>>844800
I have a small hunch your definition of "defence" goes a tiiiiiny bit into preemptive war terf.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
8f8291 No.844812
>>844803
Are you from a peace church?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
777354 No.844813
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
8f8291 No.844814
>>844813
What?
>>844783
Yes I am referring to racial demographics, but not only Mexicans. Texas is a huge destination for foreign migration.
Mexican immigrants are not religiously observant and do not maintain traditional texas liberty mindedness. They apostasize when they make the journey, especially the second generation, and radically alter the legal and political situation of the state. No conspiracy needed, just the data.
Texas is the next california. It is not there now of course.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
777354 No.844817
>>844814
>What?
What does "defence" mean in your context?
You seem to have been quite triggered when people brought up following the rules of Just War, or how they think you sound a bit like the Jewish Sicarii or the Islamic Ghazi, so i have a hunch your idea of defence is a bit more…proactive.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
8f8291 No.844819
>>844817
Wrong ID. I'm on your side.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
7b864b No.844821
>>844783
It's not so much a jewish conspiracy theory. It's moreso a jewish plan in action when the data says it's currently happening. Jesus didn't want to help the jews do their dirty work so now they're doing it themselves.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
6b14ae No.844833
>>844803
I have a feeling you're from reddit
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
777354 No.844844
>>844833
I have a feeling you dont any counterargument outside of buzzwords.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
5c5dd9 No.845167
>>844766
>Christian morality in violence is governed by the non aggression principle.
Just out of pure curiosity, which book of the Bible is the NAP in?
>>844765
>people who want to protect themselves and their loved ones are no different than jews and muslims
Your argument refutes itself.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
84319a No.845196
>>844844
Looks like you are indeed from Reddit and buttblasted.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
59461b No.845269
I can't believe that Christ would want BLM or Antifia monsters to murder me, destroy my culture, my histoty, and my people and that I do nothing to stop it. I cant imagine that a pacifist is anyone who has children or people they love on a personal level.
If someone blasphemes Christ, do you just submit to someone telling lies becasue you're committed to not resisting evil?
If you can resist false words by true words, why can you not resist unlawful violence aimed against you with defensive violence?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
89bd12 No.845277
>>845269
Again, i have very high doubts on your definition of "defensive".
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
ad46d3 No.845292
>>845269
>I can't believe that Christ would want BLM or Antifia monsters to murder me
Then look how Christians were treated in the first few centuries
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
a0f2fa No.845293
This Christian will take up arms. i cannot believe how ignorant the American church is. Do they not realize that if the Christians had not taken up arms in the Revolution, they wouldn't even have the right to worship Christ?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
59461b No.845311
>>845292
So Christians were killed until they had the power and ability to resist being killed. Constantine converted from being victorious in battle. Your own church spread by violently destroying countless pagan kingdoms. If self defense is wrong why does your pope have the Seiss guard?
>>845277
If you don't know what defense is you shouldn't be trying to lecture people on morality. All I know is is that, for instance, when a Christian man marries, he makes a covenant with God to protect his wife. Allowing your wife to be raped because you don't want to commit violence is selfish and evil. Allowing yourself to be killed and your society to be destroyed and replaced with explicitly anti-Chritian social systems is evil. Commitiment to Pacificism at all times is tantamount to "sinning so that grace may abound" in that your oversimplyifing and over emphasizing one aspect of Christianity, to the determination of yourself and those around you.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bac00e No.845316
>>844684
>Is it okay for Christians to take up arms and help fight during the coming second American civil war?
yes. However, force of arms will never bring us salvation. The reality of war is that the people dying in it usually have no understanding of why that war is really being fought.
That's one reason why Christ wasn't a partisan and why he never advocated violence.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bac00e No.845318
>>844705
>>844705
>no one ever had permission to kill in name of religion or for God.
Then why did David kill Goliath? Why did Joshua kill the Canaanites.
Some people need to remember that the old testament is still the bible.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
bac00e No.845323
>>845311
that's not true at all. America was founded as a freemasonic experiment to eliminate God and the king from government. A Classic Liberal republic is a Godless nation and anyone with even the slightest understanding of classic liberalism realizes this. In Europe before the US, every nation was ruled by a king that believed he was given the power to rule by the grace of God. Whether the king was good or bad, every nation acknowledged the rule of God over their nation. With classic liberalism that changed. Instead of the grace of God being the basis of all rule, the consent of the governed became the foundation of government.
The classic liberal republic was created by merchants that wanted to get rid of the church and the king so that the merchant class could rule.
You've just provided a great example why Jesus never advocated war- because if he did then his follows would just spend their days dying for reasons that don't benefit Christ at all, they would just die over lies they were told.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
59461b No.845324
>>845323
I think you're replying to the wrong post
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
ad46d3 No.845341
>>845311
>So Christians were killed until they had the power and ability to resist being killed.
yes.
and as you can see we are mostly in that situation again.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
ad46d3 No.845342
>>845311
my point is not that self-defence is bad
I am just saying that unbelievers hate us and want to violently eradicate us if possible
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
18b4e4 No.845387
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
777354 No.845407
>>845311
>If you don't know what defense is you shouldn't be trying to lecture people on morality.
No, i have serious doubts you know what self-defence is.
So, quit the hysterical ranting, and tell me, what measures do you count as self-defence should civil strife befall your local area?
Or do you prefer to go on the initiative, and do preemptive war?
Answer this simple thing.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
777354 No.845408
>>845318
>Then why did David kill Goliath? Why did Joshua kill the Canaanites.
One fell under just war with the philistines, and also signified that David was chosen to rule Israel, and the other was commanded by God.
Tell me, have you gotten any visions from God to wage war, Joan of Arc style(which, btw, never lifted a sword herself in war, and was disgusted by all the killing, even when it was needed), recently?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
5b244c No.845414
>>844684
Uh, maybe that blatant Catholic pedo statue SHOULD come down. How can these idiots think racism is a bigger issue than a naked child in being loomed over by a Catholic "saint"?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
59461b No.845415
>>845407
Self defense is neutralizing any aggressive violence that threatens the life of oneself, or one's kin. And America is under existential strife not civil strife. Again wanting to be passive in all circumstances is not a virtue it is the sin of cowardice.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
777354 No.845416
>>845415
>Self defense is neutralizing any aggressive violence that threatens the life of oneself, or one's kin.
And in this situation, neutralizing aggressive violence means in practical terms…?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
ad46d3 No.845423
I sincerely hope that the Mexican Reconquista gets realised.
Americans have no business being present in Spanish California and tearing down statues originating in a superiour culture.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
59461b No.845440
>>845423
>Taking the side of Aztec pagans
If you think Mexicans are good catholics boy are you one ignorant felllw
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
59461b No.845442
>>845416
I really dont understand what you're problem is. All I've understood from your responses is that you are arguing in favor of never doing anything to protect yourself or others. If you really think that you should be a monk in your monestary away from the cares of the world, but I think you're just trying to bait someone into advocating aggressive actions.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
89bd12 No.845454
>>845442
Can you answer a simple f*cking question?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
4d3dbe No.845456
>>845423
>gee I hope the canaanites conquer the babylonians
Setting high standards I see.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
b69dc8 No.845649
>>845423
Based Spain poster?
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.
927781 No.845653
>>845423
The whole Reconquista effort for the "bronze race" is a sin according to papal decrees.
Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.