/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>844674

Technology is neutral, its how humans use it, how we use it now is less than optimal.

>>844709

Still, while being neutral it can spring from an evil background such as the pursuit of power. The intention to use it for domination preceeds the invention in many cases.

>>845070

>Still, while being neutral it can spring from an evil background such as the pursuit of power.

What do computers have to do with the pursuit of power? They were originally just for calculation. A pursuit of automation or convenience… no different than the wheel or sewing machine.

If there's any "evil" to it, it's in the sense that God cursed mankind to toil. But man is in a constant pursuit to try to alleviate it. I wonder if it amuses God though. Because no matter how much man tries to escape the curse, it never truly ceases. There's always something about work that weighs people down, even with all of our gadgets today.

>>845070

Is the pursuit of power/domination necessarily evil? How do you spread a religion if not by power?

>you spread it by love

No. Imagine a land with only stone age technology. Millions of people speaking hundreds of languages. Do you paddle a canoe up every river, learn the language of every tribe and teach them the religion? If there is technology such as roads, cars, books, radio, helicopters etc the people become interconnected so they probably speak the same language and you are able to reach out to them with the religion. To spread a message is power, to decide which message gets out through the technology and which is deleted is power.

>There is a history of the world of which most people are unaware. It is encapsulated in the phrase, “History is written by the victors.” What about those who lost? Their stories are lost in the tales of the winners. They are notes in the margin. They are “Other”. Often, little is known about them beyond the slanders and libels their successful enemies levelled at them. History doesn’t record their voices. Often, they left no written documents, or at least none that survived the destruction wrought by their enemies.

This lost history doesn’t concern wars between great nations or famous battles involving powerful kings or the most skilled generals. Instead, it is a struggle of the powerless against the powerful, of minorities against majorities, outsiders versus insiders, oppressed against the oppressors, have-nots against haves, those with nothing against those with everything, the margins of society versus the establishment. In the vast majority of cases, the establishment is triumphant. Often, the minorities - the heretics, the rebels, the revolutionaries, the members of the resistance, the freedom fighters, those leading alternative lives, the anti-establishment, those who won’t bow to tyrants - are destroyed and exterminated. They are usually labelled mad, evil and dangerous and their terrible fate is held up as a warning to those who might follow the same path. “Do not be like them or you will suffer the same consequences,” is the message.

>>845087

I think we are using "pursuit of power" in different ways. Of course that joining powers FOR A REASON is reasonable. To have a purpose and goal the definition of reasonable.

I originally meant power as a reason for itself. Scientific innovators don't have many thoughts about the social impacts of their acts and when they do, they have them bad.

>>845089

I'm still not convinced the pursuit of power is necessarily an evil thing, however I'm not sure what evil even means, it's debatable.

>>845093

It's just coincidence that there is a downward slide in culture. That's due to Modernism. Technology is also a product of the modern world, but it's not a product of Modernism in the sense of the cultural/philosophical movement.

>>845097

I'm not talking about social decay. I'm talking about transhumanist abominations on the horizon. We went too far when we took hold of the power of electricity, a power only God should have. The Amish had it exactly right.

>>845101

I never said its an abomination. I said man having control over it will inevitably lead to abominations.

>>845099

Transhumanism is nothing new really. It's just another variant of Gnosticism. The propping up of "mind"/spirit/soul life or what have you, at the expense of flesh and material realities.

There will be no transhumanist abominations. It's just wishful thinking by modern Gnostics.

>>845106

Nice reddit spacing. Because I dismiss Transhumanism I somehow don't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit? How do you even come to such a strange reasoning? And since when were Orthodox so adamant about defending Gnostics? They used to be the first to call them out on their delusions.

In any case, I'm not a cessationist. Far from it. As for Musk, he's overselling, so he can get capital. Like he always does. The white papers around his tech aren't even peer reviewed either. And it's not Transhumanism anyways. There's no "uploading" of the mind elsewhere. It's an interface for our own flesh and blood brain. And they are rudimentary functions so far (basic cursor movement, yes/no, on/off switching). It doesn't last long either. Both the cells of the brain and the electrodes used in this will degrade over time (and in the case of the brain, cells get replaced and change all kinds of intangibles. It's not even known how this effects neural networks). This technology is not a longterm solution, but a last resort, for the most desperate (Lou Gehrigs, paraplegics, and such). The overselling bit is Musk trying to say this will be for everyone. He's there to sell the dream. Not the product. And he's talking about interfacing into areas of the brain that even the most knowledgeable neuroscientists and chemists don't know yet. People can't even figure out how to stop drug addiction, for heaven's sake. Or properly repair chemical imbalances, except through primitive pharmaceuticals (and even those don't work half of the time). If you want to trust some conman to drill crap in your skull, don't be surprised if you acquire even more chemical imbalances.

I think it's just as likely that this is a potential Frankenstein story and not a Transhumanist nightmare. That is, it'll just create madmen who strangle people to death.

>>845111

You talk tough, but you already adjusted with this very reply. Good enough for me. And if you refuse to read more, I'm absolved. I tried. I'm only trying to help you get over this anxiety.

>>845087

>This lost history doesn’t concern wars between great nations or famous battles involving powerful kings or the most skilled generals. Instead, it is a struggle of the powerless against the powerful, of minorities against majorities, outsiders versus insiders, oppressed against the oppressors, have-nots against haves, those with nothing against those with everything, the margins of society versus the establishment. In the vast majority of cases, the establishment is triumphant. Often, the minorities - the heretics, the rebels, the revolutionaries, the members of the resistance, the freedom fighters, those leading alternative lives, the anti-establishment, those who won’t bow to tyrants - are destroyed and exterminated

Cool whig history bro, you almost came close to having a coherent sociology but salvaged being a deluded retard right at the end. As if "freedom fighter" is some term of any real meaning and not just a liberal propaganda term. You yourself articulated the logical necessity of authority for any society earlier in the post, but then equivocated authority with a lack of "freedom" later on, so congratulations you are stupid. Political power isn't in itself evil and wanting to overthrow authority (to be inevitably replaced by an alternate authority since authority is logically necessary for society) isn't inherently righteous, neither is being a deviant or minority.

>>844709

Cop out answer, there are lots of technologies that could only have evil ends, implied within their very nature. The ability to kill and dispose of an unborn baby while leaving the mother unharmed is a very specific medical technology that could only have evil ends. And don't try to argue from fringe cases (like mother and baby will die if baby isn't removed first), because fallen human nature means that pointless slaughter for convenience was always going to outnumber them 100 to 1.

There's always some hopeless dope who thinks anything could have been used for good, the brain chips that shoot porn directly into your frontal lobe might be good, because you could instead use them to run "Billy Graham's Bible Blaster"! Except that no one's interested in any edifying use of these technologies, and there are tons of people (not least the ruling class of the west) that want hyper realistic moral filth streaming into the public psyche at the highest velocity possible. These types of things were only ever going to be evil, they were all extremely predictable.

>>844674

as evil as a sword

https://youtube.com/watch?v=AYC3n2WsoQE

About progress and pantheism,

criticaly music video