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/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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530760  No.835526

https://www.invidious.ggc-project.de/watch?v=0h5ZxVLDjZY

I'm watching Mark Passio about this subject. I'm not done but I have a few qualms which I have to save until the end of this talk.

____________________________
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6cef14  No.835530

>>835526

>esoteric christianity

<Mark Passio, former Satanic priest, gave a clear and on point, explanation of the ideology of the church of Satan. His knowledge comes from his experience as a former priest in the church of Satan, a branch of the Dark Occult.

kindly winnie the pooh off from this board

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530760  No.835536

>>835530

I don't get it, you haven't even heard what he said, how could you criticize his ideas? I didn't say believe him or he's correct.

>because he was a former Satanic priest

And Paul persecuted Christians before he was an Apostle.

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530760  No.835538

>>835530

>Mark Passio, former Satanic priest, gave a clear and on point, explanation of the ideology of the church of Satan. His knowledge comes from his experience as a former priest in the church of Satan, a branch of the Dark Occult.

Continue the quote, friend

>Now Passio has changed his personal ideology 180 degrees and helps to expose the insidious precepts of Satanism

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312a9e  No.835542

>>835526

Finish watching the video, then summarize your thoughts before asking what we think.

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530760  No.835543

>>835542

Yes, Just want to know if anyone has seen this. And maybe we can discuss his ideas

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530760  No.835547

File: 9b6c8569029b051⋯.jpg (187.22 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0058.jpg)

File: 74a40e541784365⋯.jpg (190.55 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0059.jpg)

File: 9add44100336eab⋯.jpg (202.67 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0060.jpg)

>>835526

Posting interesting slides as I go on

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530760  No.835553

File: e5790b4b2cce23d⋯.jpg (211.76 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0066.jpg)

File: 8cde9a9625f5d82⋯.jpg (209.98 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0067.jpg)

File: 613374f37ba634e⋯.jpg (184.99 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0064.jpg)

File: 81308befc62c8e1⋯.jpg (198.1 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0063.jpg)

File: 6f11cfe2e89308b⋯.jpg (189.89 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0062.jpg)

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530760  No.835557

File: 6393c4580a7d31f⋯.jpg (160.1 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0079.jpg)

File: 3c81d36f2c88ce5⋯.jpg (191.66 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0078.jpg)

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File: 4c20b8abb813a91⋯.jpg (183.45 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0074.jpg)

File: 610ac206c883baf⋯.jpg (183.68 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0072.jpg)

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530760  No.835559

File: 1ef2929b15de9b1⋯.jpg (159.1 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0080.jpg)

File: b33a1bdbc49282d⋯.jpg (171.13 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0081.jpg)

File: 06b9b023edfba25⋯.jpg (181.38 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0082.jpg)

File: 9536081dd0d25a8⋯.jpg (181.53 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0083.jpg)

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530760  No.835560

File: 7a28eef9bf94d44⋯.jpg (146.49 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0086.jpg)

File: 0ceff7c95b6c9d0⋯.jpg (192.83 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0085.jpg)

File: 14f26578cca04c2⋯.jpg (176.51 KB, 1886x1080, 943:540, mpv_shot0084.jpg)

Part 1 finished

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530760  No.835587

File: 8fb4f6e61770108⋯.png (2.2 MB, 2058x1068, 343:178, Annotation_2020_05_29_1721….png)

File: 8a0373e072c52aa⋯.png (2.06 MB, 2061x1032, 687:344, Annotation_2020_05_29_1722….png)

File: b943b5898f77c9b⋯.png (2.05 MB, 2042x1031, 2042:1031, Annotation_2020_05_29_1722….png)

File: 847b95a98de461f⋯.png (2.15 MB, 2062x1033, 2062:1033, Annotation_2020_05_29_1722….png)

File: 62592caa16676b5⋯.png (2.1 MB, 2075x1032, 2075:1032, Annotation_2020_05_29_1723….png)

Finishing Part 2

Some notes on the fly so far

- It's really boiling down to dogma-less

- Christianity,

- Gnosticism,

- The rejection of man-made, man institiuted additions of the Word

- The rejection of the Vatican and Papal authority

- He does bring up some wierd things like Natural Law (which he also calls God Law)

- The rejection of all earthly Authority

- He thinks True Christians, and Christ himself, was an Anarchist

- Does not adhere to Faith Alone,

- Adheres to Saved by works

more to come

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ab2673  No.835598

I tried to watch Passio. Couldn't get into him. The blog Gornahoor is pretty good, and has a very good backlog of stuff. I'm reading Boris Mouravieff's Gnosis, which has so far been very good as well, and has changed my worldview in a few ways.

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6c8842  No.835611

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

This is very interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Here's an embed that should work, there's been trouble with the invidious instances.

He's definitely from a radical skeptic/redpill perspective. With that you almost always see overcorrections, viewing all or most established perspectives as unenlightened. For instance at 16:40 he argues that religion and atheism are both wrong, and he's neither. He also argues that he follows "science" not a belief system.

In both of these he's just negatively associating "religion" and "belief" when the terms are innocuous and mean exactly what he's doing. Belief doesn't necessarily mean irrational, blind faith and religion doesn't necessarily mean accepting some series of doctrines which are told to you by religious authorities.

>To me the historicity of the man Jesus is meaningless (20:00)

This is an untenable approach to religious philosohpy. He says "ultimately it is the ideas which are transformative".. ok and how do you conclude that? Did you just read the ideas yourself and conclude that they were good, or look at the history of philosophy? The source material (scripture) rests it's authority on the historical claims of events in scripture. We know Jesus is God because of the historical record, especially thanks to the eyewitness testimony.

>Christianity is coopted. Esoteric Christianity is the solution because it removes the mind control element of gatekeepers.

A valid objective with a false solution. Adding esotericism obviously only inhibits Christian theology, and Biblical churches already do not have any such gatekeepers. Pastors of good churches already preach expository sermons where you only follow the preacher as far as he proves it from the Bible.

>The main purpose of all false religions (presumably including all Christian churches) is to control people by distracting them from an accurate understanding of natural law

Except historic Christian theology is the primary resource for natural law, synonymous with natural theology. He's using "natural law" as a gateway to import his philosophical ideas, just like the "esoteric fascists" on these godforsaken imageboards invent their cults following David Lane.

>Anarchism

This is the good stuff. He's right about a lot, but you don't have to leave Christian orthodoxy. It's called Christian Libertarianism.

>Constantine caused the inevention of a new Christian religion (1:50:00)

Sort of, but not really. Constantine caused a fundamental paradigm shift regarding Christianity's relationship to culture. A better way to think about this is Neibuhr's "Christ and culture" models

Here's a good summary https://frederiksbergimu.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/christ-and-culture.pdf

Criticism of sacralism is also good, but delving into theories about subversive agents corrupting Christianity via Nicaea is silly. Looking back 1700 years we have every opportunity to evaluate the claims of Nicaea and evaluate them on their own merit (spoiler: they were right)

>Romans 13 is bulls— (2:01:00)

This whole meme about Paul starting a new religion from Christ's should have died 100 years ago when Machen wrote The Origin of Paul's Religion. This again brings the problem of the authority of scripture, being arbitrary like this does not form a cohesive worldview.

He's conceding to the argument that Romans 13 is some kind of authoritarian statist admonition when it isn't, properly interpreted in context.

>Proof of the coopting of Christianity is found in the secret meaning of popular Christian symbolism (2:10:00 ->)

Essentially let me tell you what you believe" x 1bil

This also can't account for the entire reformed tradition which throws out everything in the context of worship

>(2:34:00)

typo "exoteric" hehe

>Don't trust the priest class(2:43:51)

Obviously. We've been saying that for centuries now in Protestantism. I can only assume he's completely insulated himself against the dominant view in his own country, common to these cultists.

>Vatican did and does a lot of bad things (end)

Yes. Don't be catholic. It necessarily entails your support of the vatican, which is undeiably an evil force.

<Summary pt 1

This guy has a few valid criticisms but proposes the wrong solution and doesn't really make much of an argument why. There's no engagement with any Christian movements which recognize the same problems, especially the state and symbolism. There's no argument as to why esotericism.

Anyone who follows Passio really just wants to be edgy as far as I can tell.

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530760  No.835614

>>835598

Thank for these launching points.

I wasn't aware of Gnostic Christnianity and that Christianity had such mystical roots.

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6c8842  No.835617

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

pt 2 embed

I don't care to watch the whole but I see the primary problem

>>835587

>salvationist "Christianity"

>Salvationist Christians believe that you can only "be saved" through FAITH alone, by merely accepting Jesus as your personal savior who "died for our sins"

total strawman

further reading

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordship_salvation_controversy

The bigger problem than his redefinition of faith alone is his redefinition of salvation. In Christian theology (esp. penal substitutionary atonement) salvation is eternal life, not being under God's judgment and residing in Hell. To Passio, salvation is some kind of modernist social idea of living with correct philosophy, as far as I can tell. "Not being enslaved".

>All true Christians must necessarily be anarchists (1:22:30)

I affirm that anarchism is the most consistent political philosophy from a Christian worldview but the necessary criterium for being a true Christian is being born again. It's kind of like eschatology, reasonable disagreement. This is kind of a purity spiral.

I'd like to point out that he's contradicting himself by referring to "True Christian" while at the first rejecting religion and labels.

>Pacifism bad (~2:00:00)

Mostly a fair argument but as usual he's not engaging with the best in Christian pacifist arguments from his own nonviolent camp

>Conclusion (2:20:00)

Just assertions with philosophical buzzwords. Typical of gnostics, I'm not sure if he calls himself one.

No admision of orthodox Christianity's role in the worldwide abolitionist movement or liberty movement.

I would keep anyone impressionable under the age of 22 far away from this guy.

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5c2b9c  No.835618

>>835530

There is no rule 2 anymore, interesting esoteric topics can exist.

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530760  No.835623

>>835611

>>>To me the historicity of the man Jesus is meaningless (20:00)

This is one of the ideas I had trouble with.

Yes I know he emphasize knowledge over faith, but unless he was there to emprically confirm Jesus' existence, a degree of faith has to be employed.

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6c8842  No.835637

>>835623

Is that an issue to you or are you just empathizing that it's complicated and we weren't there

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530760  No.835642

>>835637

The faith aspect of it?

Not an issue to me

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31039a  No.835644

File: 3b3ab1133f22b9a⋯.jpg (893.66 KB, 781x966, 781:966, ROBIN_AT_3_BARNSsmall_crop….jpg)

>>835598

If you like Mouravieff's Gnosis trilogy then read Robin Amis's works after especially A Different Christianity. Robin was one of the best lecturers on Mouravieff and edited his English texts. His study group may still be active. They were one of the influences that pushed me toward Orthodoxy. It was called the Praxis Research Institute.

http://orthochristian.com/72090.html

https://www.praxisresearch.net/

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ce421b  No.835712

>>835526

Is this the type of thing they were talking about in Zeitgeist? Astrotheology?

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530760  No.835718

>>835712

It talks about how the exoteric Christianity also known as "Catholicism" promotes just another variation of pagan Astrotheology.

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9224f1  No.837990

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>835644

Updating this with some recent video made about Robin Amis that I think are rather good.

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9224f1  No.837991

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>837990

Somewhat of a part 2. Gurdjieff, Robin Amis and the Collapse of Civilization.

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