/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

it’s great if you can afford to do it. “afford” as in don’t have attachments to society and all that.

>>835003

I could afford, I only hoard my money like a dragon. I wish I had the will to do it, I don't out of love for the world.

>>835003

Nothing, the bible doesn't promote it.

>>835074

Paul clearly expressed that it was ‘his wish’ (his opinion). Not the wish of the father. When Father created Eve, he did so after expressing that its is not good for man to be alone’. Father’s words dominate over any man’s. This scripture has been used to lead the church astray. It is not meant to be used in such a way. It also ends with ‘it is better to be married than inflamed with passion’. All scriptures can be used ‘line upon line’ in order to get people to believe whatever you want them to. Father has final say.

>>835076

Read the whole chapter. It is quite confusing if your gonna take it at face value. He clearly states again at the end that it’s his opinion. And he clearly states that those who want to marry commit no sin. He said what he said because ‘time was short’, they were expecting something. He had a bad habit of wanting for everyone what he wants for himself. And he also mentioned that he didn’t want to burden them or put a noose around their neck. Read the whole thing. Not just the scriptures that made you sacrifice what you didn’t want to. The single life is not ideal. It leads many to resent God. In fact, it’s much more ideal to be married and devote your life, along with your wife, to the preaching of God. If you want to reach many people with Gods word, their better off seeing a spouse by your side. No ones willing to listen to a man talk about how good God is without a woman beside him. I certainly didn’t. A single person battles with loneliness a lot more than he preaches the word of God. In the beginning he might preach with ferocity, but the loneliness inevitably crushes his love for God and he spends more time trying to maintain it than helping others. What Paul said in that entire chapter is false without context. And you will have a hard time understanding that whole chapter. It was Paul’s opinion, he is wrong many places in that chapter. Context is always the key.

>>835076

I’m not saying your not allowed to be single. But it is wrong to think everyone must be single to be holy and devoted to God.

>>835070

No man is as great as John the Baptist.

>>835079

No one says that.

>>835081

Yes they do. That is why I kept coming to this chapter when I hated God. I’ve gone over this chapter more than any other in the new testoment. And I got a few choice words for Paul when I see him one day. You haven’t been on the receiving end of this chapter when it’s been weaponized brother. Consider yourself fortunate.

>>835080

Also taken out of context.

>>835081

God’s opinion trumps any man’s greatness. He said so himself that it is not good for a man to be alone. And Eve, when created, never spent a day alone. We are incomplete without a spouse. We all know that deep inside.

>>835086

I’m happy you see it that way. But Paul’s words are clear, he doesn’t seem to see it that way. He says if your celibate it’s better to not marry. If your a widow, don’t look for a spouse. If your a virgin marry a virgin but it’s better to not marry at all. He’s telling people they’ll have tribulations in the flesh when they marry, he says nothing about tribulations in the mind if they stay single. Paul is clearly leaning toward a person staying single due to his imperfections. If fact he makes it sound like the only reason to marry is for sex, he takes love completely out of the picture. Sex is only a part of the marriage union. Marriage is about much more than just sex. It’s the biggest gift God can give anyone regardless of anything he has set for his children in the future. We will never get a gift greater than marriage, nothing will ever be more valuable than another soul by your side for eternity. He’s clearly telling people to only marry if they can’t abstain from sexual immorality. Reducing the value of marriage down to suppression of carnal desires. His imperfection is evident here. The way he comes at this topic is quite insulting to God. Borderline evil.

Again I’m happy you see it that way. In fact it’s almost identical to the way I see the matter. But no one can doubt Paul is showing disrespect toward the marriage arrangement by saying things the way he is. He was imperfect too. We need to stop treating the apostles like they were perfect and go to Father for clarity.

>>835088

How I see it, the epistle is about how married and unmarried, slave and free, circumcised (it appears to be an euphemism for OT jew) and uncircumcised can follow God. It is not elitist in any way, quite the contrary.

I agree fraternal love is Godly love but perhaps you might be a bit confused regarding that one does not need to be married to be close to someone.

Our culture does not value friendship as did people in the Roman Empire and wrongfully believes marriage alone implies spiritual closeness, perhaps this is why the epistle appears to us to condemn spiritual closeness but it does not. It merely says that a single person has much more free time to devote to the community, prayer, and fasting.

Monks are extremely close to each other, particularly in the orthodox tradition because the average number of monks in a monastery in only 6. Orthodox monasteries in the west usually have more, but it's because they are so few they can't help but consolidate.

>>835093

They’ll never be as close to each other as a husband and wife fully devoted to God. They’ll always have a pain and it’s that pain that creates the closeness. They all have something in common. But only a husband and wife can live life to the fullest and show everyone on earth the way God intended things from the start. Only a husband and wife can show the masterpiece that is the love God shares with his wife the Holy Spirit in heaven (I know many of you believe the Holy Spirit is a ‘he’ but I no longer can). I’ll concede it’s better to be a monk than marry the wrong person. It’s better to be a single virgin than marry a non-virgin. Not everyone’s lives end up as God wants them to, but it is God’s will that we all find love and come to him a complete being. If everything could be perfect, it would be this way. Paul makes it sound like marriage is for imperfect people, and will have no place in heaven. I can feel the sting in his words.

Being a monk is not the best life, neither does the Bible prefer it. It doesn’t condemn it either. It’s very wrong to have it as your first choice to be a monk, it’s actually more of a last resort. A choice you make when all others can not be done perfectly.

I wish I had the time to go into why I know the Holy Spirit is a female, Father’s wife, Jesus’ Mother, (not marry). But I don’t expect you to listen long enough to see. I am happy though that you see these words of Paul the way God wants them to be seen, the details I’ll leave to God.

Monasticism is pagan and unbiblical.

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (KJV)

>>835097

Thanks for this.

>>835094

>They’ll never be as close to each other as a husband and wife fully devoted to God.

I disagree.

>Paul makes it sound like marriage is for imperfect people

This life is imperfect, no matter how one lives it. The manifold manners one can follow God is for imperfect people.

>I wish I had the time to go into why I know the Holy Spirit is a female, Father’s wife, Jesus’ Mother, (not marry).

Christ never said this.

>>835097

How do you see Matthew 9:15?

>>835097

Unfortunately Paul is not addressing monasticism or ascetic labors, he is addressing the Ephesian heresy. It is not the acts that Paul is condemning but the views that the Ephesian heretics had toward these acts.

>>835102

When marriage was created life was in a perfect state. Marriage is not something for imperfect people alone. It’s a union created by God. It doesn’t end when perfection ends. Christ gives everyone a gift when they come into a personal relationship with him, this includes secrets and the revealing of scriptures that have been manipulated. Clearly I wouldn’t expect many here to know that The Holy Spirit is Gods wife. God made everything on earth as it is in Heaven. No one here can be a called a father without a child and you can’t do that without a wife. The evidence is under our noses. As things are in heaven that’s how they’ll be on earth after God’s done. And he originally created the marriage union in perfection as things were in heaven. Clearly I can’t prove this to you. Only point out clues. But that’s how I know he loves me. He gave me something that’s not given to many people, new manna.

>>835104

*It doesn’t end where perfection begins*

>>835104

He gave me something that’s not given to many people, new manna.

Did God tell you this?

>>835106

Is that what your looking for? Ok. Yes God told me this, not in the form of a voice but he has his ways of speaking to me. I’m sharing what I can, banking my talents, so when the Lord arrives I can say I at least tried to share some of that new manna. All that’s required of me is to try and share it. I’m not trying to get followers. I’m covering my behind so I can have a clear conscience. Without accepting the Holy Spirit is God’s wife one can never understand the gifts God has given mankind. Nor can they understand the reason behind Jesus’ sacrifice fully. Yes God told me this. He hated the though of me thinking of him as a pimp, and a man that steals other men’s wives.

>>835107

Do you hold the protestant view of Sola scriptura? Because if God is giving you revelations it violates the sufficiency of scripture. What exactly is your denominational background?

>>835108

I am part of no denomination. Just a Christian in union with God. I used to be in the cult known as Jehovah's witnesses. They would kill me if they could get away with it. Does sola scriptures mean by faith alone? If so I am strongly against it. When Jesus gave us the proper rules for marriage (one wife, cheating breaks the union), he showed us that works are nesessary. Because the marriage union is parrellel to our union with God. If we can lose our spouse because of infidelity, then God can throw us out of salvation because of infidelity to his laws. I believe in the balance of both faith and works. Without works one can’t prove their faith. Without faith one cannot do the works God requires. Balance exists in everything God touches. The confusion in many of us exists because we miscatagorize imperfection and wickedness. Much can be said on the matter.

>>835084

God is the spouse of the monk

>>835110

The true monk holds the Holy Spirit inside of him. The true monk is part of the wife class (lack of a better term). By having that spirit you are considered God’s wife, but not really his wife. God’s wife and God conceived Jesus. God’s had a wife this whole time. What you said is true, but not in the way you think. Although still true.

There are those who are married and still a part of the wife class.

>>835113

I would say all those with the Holy Spirit truly residing in them are part of the wife class. Yes, this is far more accurate if not exact. But how do you tell? That’s the hard part.

>>835113

you were a jeovas witness turned nondenominal, why do you even have an opinion on Cathodox Monastics?

>>835117

Can you explain those last two words. I’m not familiar with much of the terminology.

>>835118

Carhodox = Catholic and Orthodox

Monastics = monks

>>835119

I see. As someone that’s non denominational I have the right to express my opinion about anything to do with Christ. With the spirit inside me I feel what she feels, and she feels what I feel. When I hear something, and it can be from any denomination, if the spirit gets offended I likewise feel the offense and am compelled to comment on the matter. As long as a denomination comes in the name of Christ then it must allow me to express myself. They don’t have to listen, but, since we all worship the same God, the holy spirit’s voice can not be silenced. If it has an opinion, you will hear it. No one can tell me it’s non of my business. You come in the name of Christ, do you not? Same spirit that resides in me resides in some of you. Christ can not be contained in organizations. Christ is free to comment anywhere He wishes, as well as Almightly God, and as well as the Holy Spirit. The celestial family will invite themselves wherever they wish. Who can tell them no?

>>835104

No man is perfect, what are you talking about?

>>835121

you have a false spirit.

>>835123

I’m definitely not perfect. Perfection is not needed to have the Holy Spirit. The perfection God asks of imperfect men is to perfectly abstain from wickedness. Wickedness is what grieves the Holy Spirit and drives it out. We are allowed to be imperfect. We are not allowed to be wicked. God explained to me the wickedness I am to abstain from in order to keep the Holy Spirit. As for the imperfections, some I am to work on, others are simply the thorn in my side that must remain for me to be humble, I don’t know when he’ll remove them. Ultimately he has told me that I may never get mercy for any wickedness I commit, specially now because of the gifts he’s given me. I see it as a great trade. Very agreeable with my personality.

>>835126

Your opinion is welcomed, your caution admired.

I wanted to become a monk and went to a monastery

One of the most dreadful experiences i had. But not because i couldn't let go of the world, on the contrary, it was both the administration of the monastery as well as the monks that let the entire world right in in the most "as a matter of fact" way.

In the end i thought it was time to choose a different monastery but im glad i didn't upon learning from monks of other monasteries that its the same everywhere in Moldova

Not sure about Russia or Ukraine, but in Romania and Moldova at least they're infested with homosexuals and all kinds of degenerates

>>835177

I don't know your story but consider your keen eye for sin as pride. Nothing is as worldly as having expectations of an utopia, obviously.

>>835190

>consider your keen eye for sin as pride

And let me guess, only let God judge human behavior yea?

That's the exact same explanation i've been given by different priests and monks that i've talked to when addressed with concrete examples of how far gone from God are the self-entitled people claiming to speak his word, giving the same old folk excuse.

If you can't abstain from sinning on such a high level, it's time for christian judgement to intervene. Because it's God that we choose to aspire to, but it's teaching from humans that help us reach that objective. If those teachings come from foul humans, they will stray people from their path of salvation through foul and false teachings.

>Nothing is as worldly as having expectations of an utopia

Who said anything about a utopia ? Monasteries were supposedly peaceful places where one can lead a pious life. I wish someone would have told me what i was about to witness there so i could have avoided disappointment. On the other hand it gave me a cold shower and i realized a monk does not exist in monasteries, but a monk can be anyone who is willing to abandon wordly things in pursuit of God, be he a simple man with a family or not.

>>835197

What exactly did you see?

>>835197

It's good God destroyed your idealistic view of others, now let's hope he does the same to the one you have of yourself

There’s a monestary in a foreign country I know that teaches people how to do satanic rituals. They tell naive pregnant women that the ritual calls angels and they can tell them what their children look like and their gender while in the uterus. The true purpose of the ritual is for a demon to heal the genetic code of the fetus by removing it of imperfections and genetic defects (cleaning it’s temple) in order to fuse the fetus’ body with a high class demon. They seem to prefer clean and healthy temples. This woman I know said during the event her mentally ill brother stepped on her hand. This caused her heartbeat to work irregularly and threw the ritual off and canceled it. When that happened the demons began to use profanity at the mentally ill brother of this woman and throw objects around, finally proving they were not angels but demons. This woman is a Christian now and can’t remember how the ritual is done (Praise God for that). Her son is also saved but talks much about the world around him and how misunderstandings happen easily with him. He likens it to the smith program in the movie ‘The Matrix’. He’s had two experiences with death before he was 3 where demons would lead him to a high place and the second time he was saved when his grandmother had a bad feeling and phoned his mother to check on him, when his mother turned around she saw him standing on the rail of their two story balcony and snuck to him and pulled him to safety. He told me that the demons are very pissed that they strengthened and cleaned his vessel only for it to be given to God.

I can tell you from this man’s testimony that not all monasteries are the same. I do like the though of God stealing from the hard work of demons though.

Christ indeed praises "becoming a eunuch" for the kingdom of God's sake. Following an abbot and calling him father? Not so much. Like with many other issues, I think both Cathodox and Protestants are right and wrong on different matters. You can follow a monastic type of life without the extra baggage added by men. In fact, I'd say it was easier to imitate St. Mary of Egypt than living through all of the trappings that later monastics are expected to do. It's formalized to a fault.

>>835228

formalization is good. People don't like it because they are lazy and egoistical, so thing they should be able to things however they want.

>>835230

It's quite the opposite of egotistical or lazy. We are called to pray without ceasing, after all. Always looking upwards to Christ, worshiping in the Spirit and truth rather than ego; communicating our thoughts to God rather than living like the unsaved who only have their own inward voice (the ego). Prayer itself is a killing of ego and turning our eyes to God. But it is also natural communication. One can not sustain unceasing prayer and formality at the same time, without being a complete fraud. We are invited to talk to God and come closer to him as a person, rather than just formal prayers - and that is the only manner to do it unceasingly.

And on what basis is all of the formality good? Christ gave us one formal prayer, but some would heave thousands of others due to a love of their own voices. Not God's. They like the form of appearing holy and saying many holy sounding phrases without ever actually approaching God as a real person. They've never heard his voice. This excessive formality often leads to the very thing Christ himself told us not to do. "And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."

>>835213

Adultery, white magic, drunkeness, small people scheming their own interests while LARPing as being part of something profound. Their entire nature was simply too wretched for me to pretend it doesn't exist so i could go on with my own path, which is why i left.

>>835218

>let's hope he does the same to the one you have of yourself

God gave people the capacity of seeing, smelling and feeling so that man may love with all his heart God's creation. He gave man his mind so he can understand himself better with God's help and the creation of God that surrounds him. If God didn't want man to think, he wouldn't have created him in his image.

You are a hypocrite, for you tell others that pride is sin, but you yourself take the time to sin against God's will by being prideful.

>>835252

I feel the Holy Spirit talking through you so far. I’ll be listening to what you have to say.

>>835218

Why?

>>835252

I know I am prideful, the only one assuming I could not be is you. Though you're the one saying monks are worldly when you are in the internet. A log and a half in your eye!

Further, you justify yourself by your will. Merely because you have the desire and capability to intellectually judge everything it does not make it righteous. Being able does not imply should.

>>835261

I don't want to make this a game of assumptions. If you know you're being prideful then stop it. What i'm expressing in my posts is not pride but a combination of indignity and sadness, although i can understand why it can come off as that. Still, i no longer have a will of my own. Wherever i might be in this world i know i'm in God's hands, internet or not. Whatever simple obvious facts i read upon studying i also know i can be sure of their validity, because God also put them there.

>Being able does not imply should

I disagree. If a man teaches another man false things which will keep him away from his own salvation then that man must be confronted and judged as to know the motives behind his actions. Moreso when such a man claims to be God's representative on earth.

>>835261

>Though you're the one saying monks are worldly when you are in the internet. A log and a half in your eye!

If you think the internet is inherently worldly then why are you on it?

I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteems any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean. - Romans 14:14

Being a monk sounds like a wasted life. Theoretically, let's say you know God correctly, do you then lock yourself away? Do you then cover the light God lit? That's dumb. Go out and be a missionary if you're intent on living a godly life away from the world you know.

>>835330

not all monks live in cloisters

>>835332

It seems to many people like they all do. Some live in a group of cloisters. Some live in gigantic cloisters. People keep thinking this way for a reason.

>>835330

Monks do exactly what they all Christians are going to do in eternity: Glorify God. Do you not think their prayers are heard in Heaven and bare fruits in the earth?

>>835382

Nope. Wrong. God wouldn’t be so selfish. You can glorify God for an eternity with the ability to have a family. You can have countless children over centuries with eternal life and bring much more glory to God, by bringing more life into the world that also glorifies Him. The more you monks speak the more you make God look cruel.

There is a saying that Paul used constantly in his travels and letters, ‘never may that be so’. In other translations of the Bible he says the same thing in effect. He said this everytime he heard something against the spirit and personality of God, everytime Someone tried to spread an ideology not of the spirit and ultimately damaging.

To your post, sir I say, ‘never may that be so’. It makes God look very cruel, and again, reduces marriage to a union only good for suppressing carnal desires. Turning marriage itself into a sin, but one God tolerates for now. I don’t know how you can love God if you think that is the end result. Ultimately I believe the Bible’s manipulated, but you don’t. Even with my belief I don’t believe the enemy has been able to destroy the philosophies in it. Words taken out of context here and there, some chapters completely gone, some books removed. However, the book is still our tutor, and the enemy’s lies are not perfect.

Sir, your never gonna be happier to be wrong once Jesus returns soon. But what you said is of the devil and proves that you see the married as sinners and look down on them. If you plan on being in God’s favor you will change your mind one day. Looks like we’re all gonna have a few choice words for Paul when we see him, but this saying he loved so much reveals a lot about the spirit in him and how it worked.

This mentality of your kind, I look forward to the day God proves it wrong, but I’m grateful he proved it wrong in my personal conversations with Him. Without Him debunking this particular lie about Himself, I would’ve never gone back to Him. This lie of yours is poison, I wonder why you have adopted it for so long.

An eternity of existence with no soul devoted to us by our sides? God must be very selfish. An eternity of existence chanting the same things to God and not understanding what it means to love another? An eternity of existence, not truly knowing the sacrifice God has made for us by giving his Son up for our behalf, because we’ll never have one of our own to know a fraction of what that feels like?Never may it be so!

Glory and praise are empty if you don’t understand the depths of the love He has for us, and we’ll never understand it with words. We’ll understand it when we’re given gifts that put us in His shoes.

God prefers hearing praises to Him for His sacrifice from a man with a son of his own rather than a single man. Although still appreciated that same praise is, It’s ultimately empty compared to the praise a man gives while holding his newborn in his arms. While hearing it’s first words. While watching it take it’s first steps, and so one. You need to feel Gods love to know it. What have you seen in this world better than a Man and a Wife holding there Child? Money? Fancy Churches? Nature? What beauty exists better than the marriage arrangement? A light show in heaven, this is what you look forward to? What you believe, Never may that be so!

>>835382

There will be marriage in heaven. And on earth.

>>835385

I’m waiting for you to mention the example Of the seven brothers who die and each get the older ones wife.

Go ahead, I’m waiting, Luke 20:27-40. The Sadduccees! You hit a nerve. Go for it!

Try Matthew 22:23-33, even better!

>>835330

No such thing as wasting life

>>835003

Man, the current state of monks is winnie the pooh sad. You learn about the Franciscans, paragons among men, full of kindness and holy poverty. Then you learn that they own a bunch of monasteries and universities and s—. They aren't even supposed to have those! Listen to St. Francis dammit!

>>835761

Franciscans are friars, not monks.