/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>832918

Who eases suffering? A lot of Christians do, and I don't think it's fair at all to pick any side. I'm not Catholic and disagree with much on their theology, but they deserve plenty of credit here. Their ministries are vast. Yes, they have bad seeds, but they have good seeds too. On the other hand, as much as I like the Orthodox on a liturgical and theological level, they're not going to inspire much when it comes to good deeds in this country at least. Maybe they're like the Catholics or the Methodists in their own countries, but here, they don't have a strong presence. You can count on one hand the number of schools or hospitals or charities they've opened, for example. Although I do know of one Orthodox woman who does prison ministries. God bless her.

Catholic here.

I think you know the answer.

Tough thing, giving up sin. That's why you pray for faith in God, Grace to resist sin, to repent and pray the act of contrition, and get to Confession for the sacrament of penance to obtain Life and Sanctifying Grace.

Why do we take it as an act of love to accept a person despite its inherent flaws but do not do the same to nations, ideas and groups?

>>832918

>The Pope and the Vatican, the supposed leaders of faith, what have they done to ease the suffering of the poor? What have they done to extend and live the practices of Jesus?

God gave us his Word which we are to follow as the final authority of faith and practice. Men have accomplished nothing. Any suffering that has been eased in this world it is God who has eased it. We are not to take credit for ourselves or to establish ourselves as earthly authorities on matters that only God can answer. That is why anything that deviates from the inspired word of God will only yield bad fruits, evidences of their deviation from the truth. As in the case of protecting and employing child predators in the case you mentioned.

>Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

>Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

>Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

>A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Grab a Bible, read it and obey it. Talk to God and he'll guide you to the right church. You'll be fine.

Ive decided to read the Bible and after much research I've settled on the LXX (http://ecmarsh.com/lxx/)

with the Apocyrpha.

Starting with OT today.

I realized as I asked this thread, I still pined for the authority of man. I just want the pure words of God and I want my intuition and reason to guide me.

I do have a few questions, just to hear your opinion.

As a christian, we follow Jesus.

Did Jesus keep the Sabbath on Sunday or Saturday?

Language and history points to Saturday (sabatizzo, sabado) as the Sabbatth. What does rest mean in the context of the Sabbath.

>>832918

Absolutely horrendous choice of picture. This style of """art""" style bothers me so f. much.

You write like a fag. "Reddit spacing", "As we all are" in a single, separate sentence, and so on. Stop writing like a fag, write like a man; that would be a good step towards following Christ.

Also stop being retarded; stop associating child abuse with Catholics or the Catholic faith because some tiny minority of wicked men exist who do it and call themselves Catholic. Is child abuse limited to Catholic clergymen?

Another sign of retardation is considering contemporary-era Popes and the Vatican leaders of faith.

>>833500

Says the guy who uses semicolons too much, and abbreviates profanities.

But anyway, I think the moral crisis lies beyond the fact some sodomites have infiltrated those churches, and is compounded by the fact that the leadership willingly allows them to stay as officials and just hushes everyone and moves them to another location to pretend the problem will go away. They obviously aren't that concerned about the sin if they are sweeping it under the rug and downplaying it. It's just a worldly organization.

>>832918

See Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB)

First, if you're not saved then get saved

https://invidio.us/WDEBz25lGdY

Recommend watching these

Being Baptist Documentary

https://invidio.us/VAM_POZEeO8

Why we are Baptist sermon

https://invidio.us/OTAz7XIUy_0

Where to find an IFB Church

http://militarygetsaved.tripod.com/findchurch.html

also just googling "baptist church" on Google maps also generally works well.

>>833130

bad idea, use the KJV

There are differences between the septuagint and the masoretic texts about the age of Methuselah at the time of the flood. The LXX makes it appear as if Methuselah survived the Great Flood which is not possible:

LXX: Methuselah lived to be 969 years old (Genesis 5:27)

MAS: Methuselah lived to be 969 years old (Genesis 5:27)

LXX: Meth. 167 years old when Lamech born (Gen 5:25)

MAS: Meth. 187 years old when Lamech born (Gen 5:25)

LXX: Lamech 188 years old when Noah born (Gen 5:28)

MAS: Lamech 182 years old when Noah born (Gen 5:28)

LXX: Noah 600 years old when flood began (Gen 7:6)

MAS: Noah 600 years old when flood began (Gen 7:6)

LXX: 167+188+600=955 years old when flood began

MAS: 187+182+600=969 years old when flood began

http://ecmarsh.com/lxx-kjv/genesis/gen_005.htm

Thus, according to the LXX, Methuselah lived another 14 years after the flood began.

Yes, but fellowship with other Christians is mandatory. You can't seclude yourself.

>>833500

Calm down anon.

There are no doubt good people in the Catholic church. But they have been led astray with superfluous and really questionable practices tacked on by man. This is what worries me. We can quote the Crusades, the force conversions. I dont think the Son of Man conquered the world with a literal Sword. Thats Muslim.

I believe the word of God trumps any tradition rhat man created and instituted.

>>833539

>>833539

I'm studying the Bible. When I finish ill see what's available rhat fits closest to God's word. I dont shun away people. If you love Jesus then we are friends. Even if you don't we are friends. I'm against religion not the Holy Spirit.

>>833527

So he lived for 14 years. Whats the implication of that?

>>833546

I was speaking from experience. I also was like you for around 8 years. You're not going to find a perfect church. You can find a denomination that has autonomous churches, though. Southern Baptist is an example. The leadership of the convention is cucked and infiltrated, same as Catholicism, but Southern Baptist churches have autonomy away from the convention.

The church I go to is not perfect. They do not speak on women and against feminism to the degree I would like. They do not stress the unacceptable nature of divorce and the necessity of headship of the husband like I would want. The preacher is a typical Boomer. All that being said, it is better than a lot of churches and strong in other ways. I have to take what I can get in my locale.

Fellowship with Christians. Don't delay. It won't stint your growth with studying the Bible unless you are not headstrong and easily influenced.

God bless.

>>833547

The flood killed everyone that wasn't on the ark

Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Genesis 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

1 Peter 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The LXX has Methuselah survive the flood by 14 years which is impossible because anything not in the ark died, and he wasn't in the ark

>>833551

The Southern Baptist Convention uses the CSB translation now. It removes key verses and sentences throughout Scripture.

>>833584

There is not an SBC translation because like he just said churches have autonomy.

The csb and other eclectic text translations are also not removing scripture, but any time there is a discrepancy it's also included in the margins or in italics.

KJV and ESV are more common in SBC churches, followed by CSB or HCSB in my experience. Old small churches might also still be using the 1984 NIV because replacement pew bibles cost money.

Even if the pew Bible is different there's not a single Baptist church that would discourage you from bringing and reading out of your KJV.

>>833586

>The csb and other eclectic text translations are also not removing scripture, but any time there is a discrepancy it's also included in the margins or in italics.

Ok lets deal with this first. So you think that by removing part of a verse from the text but adding it in the footnotes and saying the "best" manuscripts do not include this means that it was not removed?? Do you think anyone reading that translation of the verse is going to take the removed verse seriously after you just moved it to the footnotes? No they are not, it is being removed from Scripture. Some translations try to cunningly create a cover for themselves by keeping it in the footnotes as long as they can place doubt on it then they've gotten away with their task. Their task is of intentionally discrediting Scripture and saying "no that doesn't belong there."

Even the simplest person reading it would come to that conclusion.

And this is their goal, to discredit part of Scripture and by extension all of it.

Now if you want to argue that the eclectic text is right and the KJV is wrong, that's a separate discussion. What you are saying is not that. But rather than multiple versions of God's word exist concurrently at the same time, which is even more of a clown house position than either accepting or rejecting the received Scripture. These people are basically saying that God gave multiple versions of his word and they disagree in places but nobody should even be concerned about this. I see why they're doing it. It's tempting for them. The simple fact is it's much easier to get everyone to agree if they each choose their own disagreeing versions of the Bible. Because this fact then discredits the whole idea of the Bible being consistent and accurate altogether. People can just do whatever they want, nobody knows what the Bible actually says according to "multiple version only" philosophy, hence modernism. Thus we see the moral decline began when people stopped taking the word of God seriously with the modern eclectic versions. Anyone who uses them by extension is inherently part of the multiple version only crowd. They stop caring about all things related to godliness. And you know it's true what I'm telling you. They've corrupted the truth, now all that remains is apathy.

>churches have autonomy.

The fact a church chooses to associate with and go along with people who use that translation officially just sends a clear signal that they are not dealing with the problem addressed above. Joining such a convention is no different than marking yourself out as a safe space like they do on college campuses with toys and coloring books where you won't be judged.

I wouldn't willingly be in communion with people who have compromised and chosen to corrupt the truth or to allow it to occur. And fortunately I am now part of a local independent Baptist church that teaches against this very same modernism.

See 2 Corinthians 2:17 (KJV). We are not as many which corrupt the word of God.

>>833599

Calling it "removing verses" is an oversimplified strawman no different from catholics saying protestants "remove books". I haven't indicated to you which way I fall on the issue of manuscripts and I don't intend to. The point is that there are reasonable differences in opinion on nuanced issues that tend towards some manuscripts over the other, none of which differences properly exegeted changes any doctrine whatsoever.

Just chill out with the talking points.

>But rather than multiple versions of God's word exist concurrently at the same time,

>These people are basically saying that God gave multiple versions of his word

more strawman

>The simple fact is it's much easier to get everyone to agree if they each choose their own disagreeing versions of the Bible

Conspiracy nonsense. Reading contradictory intent into translators.

>discredits the whole idea of the Bible being consistent and accurate altogether.

does not follow

>just sends a clear signal that they are not dealing with the problem addressed above

Not purity spiraling like this is why the SBC is the single greatest missionary force in world history. These are not compromising issues. You really can share a church with people who need easier phrasing.

>>833606

>Calling it "removing verses" is an oversimplified strawman no different from catholics saying protestants "remove books".

So logically you are implying that those verses were never there.

Alright. I see, so you think the Bible that people were using before A.D. 1859 and Tischendorf had flaws in it. You think, for instance, that everyone in the world before 1859 was wrong about what Mark 10:24 really said. According to what you're logically saying, Jesus didn't actually speak the statement "how difficult is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!" but actually he said "how difficult is it to enter into the kingdom of God!" and simply no one in the entire world knew about it until 1859 because every Bible had that verse wrong according to you.

>I haven't indicated to you which way I fall on the issue of manuscripts and I don't intend to.

No… you've made yourself pretty clear with that first sentence.

See it's funny because the first time people are very welcoming for you to bring your Bible but then as soon as you try to explain that it's accurate they suddenly switch hands and start promoting the eclectic text over it. Why do they do this? Because accepting that God did not preserve his word is the actual true core belief of the multiple version onlyists. If you use the eclectic text, you have to believe that, so logically they have to side with that if it becomes indefensible to continue the mere charade that they're the same. The charade that they're the same is the survival mechanism of the MVOist because it fools many people into thinking their version is actually the same without even checking for themselves. It's abusing a position of trust because if people knew the differences they wouldn't fall for the charade.

>there are reasonable differences in opinion on nuanced issues

Empty fluff words. Exactly what I'd expect at this phase.

>Just chill out with the talking points.

I sincerely believe the points I've made here that's why I spent the time making them. Why else would I, honestly? What advantage is there to gain from it other than successfully defending the truth from creeping error. It certainly doesn't give me the freedom to decide what I want the words of Scripture to say and hence to sin like the other side does.

>more strawman

Friend, you said it yourself in your post just now. You said "there are reasonable differences" etc. What you're saying is these versions that remove thousands of phrases, dozens of whole sentences and verses and the last twelve verses of Mark are all equal. Did you know Mark 16 contains the statement to preach the gospel to every creature and people using modern versions argue that isn't a command? Did you know Revelation 1:11 links Jesus with being the Alpha and the Omega and people using modern versions argue he isn't? Unitarians are going around using the argument that because supposedly certain verses were changed that means their position is somehow proven. The problem with their argument is that the received text still exists, Thank God. God's word hasn't changed.

>Conspiracy nonsense. Reading contradictory intent into translators.

Where there is a demand for something there will be an immoral supplier. In this case watered down corrupted versions that are useful for drawing in large audiences and affirming their behavior, and generally promoting a lax attitude toward not knowing for sure what Scripture actually says, always casting some small doubt whether something might be legitimate or maybe a future discovery will prove some other part of scripture will be proven false (such as a passage dealing with some sin). They can always think, well maybe that doesn't apply, maybe it wasn't really there they can't know because they and the people around them think God failed to preserve his word accurately. Some future discovery could show that some verse they don't like wasn't actually there, as you said maybe it was never there to begin with or maybe one of the words was changed, they could never know. They could never know!

>>833527

>Thus, according to the LXX, Methuselah lived another 14 years after the flood began.

Not really. The Orthodox Study Bible does not have this issue because it is from the Codex Alexandrinus source.

https://www.invidio.us/post/UgxPkCklPRZdkyp0Qp14AaABCQ

>>832918

>My question: how does one affiliate with z Jesus without the Catholic faith and dogma?

well

you don't

>>836424

You don't need a church to follow Christ

>The Pope and the Vatican, the supposed leaders of faith, what have they done

ITs the biggest charity in the world, what have you done though? Check the beam in your eye.

>Why do Catholic clergymen abuse

Its in a lower rate in chatholic priests than in any other religion/profession. Other religions/professions arent mentioned by the media on this topic because its satanic media persecution agaisnt the one true church.

> They are men and full of sin. As we all are.

We are fallen, did Peter not sin, did Paul not sin. Are you betting your soul in such a sorry argument? Also again check the beam in your eye.

>who only reads the Bible?

The bible the catholic church concocted? they are sinners, you are better off reading the thousands of books pertaining to God's story and making up your own canon.

You accept the bible so you already accept the authority of the church that made it.

1 Timothy 3:15

… God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

>become an independent Christian

Without the pillar of truth you are lost, a stray sheep who is easy picking for the devil.

>>836404

Still removes the prophecy about the Son in Psalm 2:12. Why would you want to remove that clear messianic prophecy from Psalms? See the true version in the KJV. It says: "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry," and not "Embrace discipline." The modern Jewish versions also follow the OSB in removing the prophecy of the Son from Psalm 2:12.

And the only difference in the OSB is that Genesis 5:25 is changed back, it still uses all of the other numbers from the Septuagint. It still removes the second half of Jeremiah chapter 33 (contains many messianic prophecies), and other large parts of the book, etc. You can see this in the OSB, at the end of what it calls chapter 40 skips right over the passage which is labelled Jeremiah 33:14-26 in most Bibles. The new chapter division points in the OSB attempts to hide these removals (divergence begins after Jeremiah 25:13).

>>836441

That graphic was debunked a long time ago.

>>836463

>The bible the catholic church concocted?

No, that's the one where they added a bunch of things to it. We're talking about the original pre-Vulgate Bible without the changes to John 3:5 and such, and without the apocrypha. It's Represented in English in the KJV.

>>836485

Short answer: If I got together some scholars and translated a brand new Greek Old Testament, and I took 90 quotes directly from the New Testament and pasted them into my translation of the Old by modifying those places, would that prove that the apostles quoted from my translation?

Even shorter: Origen (c. 180-253 AD) is the editor responsible for the extant version of the Septuagint.

>>836463

>ITs the biggest charity in the world, what have you done though?

The Vatican has Trillions yet there is still World Hunger.

What have I done? I'm not in a position to help to a great extent, but I am walking in the Light of Christ. Following his actions. When I am in a position to help, believe me my generosity will be unquestioned.

>Ye Shall Know Them By their Fruits

The Catholic church has done attrocities that is so against the Word of God. It's anything but Christ-like. It would required a separate thread to discuss this.

You can't deny the paganism and the extraneous "cathechisms" that the Catholic Church adopted over the centuries.

Catholicism is the Roman Empire's final branch to world domination. A bastardization of The Word.

The only council I accept were the one and only council by the Apostles themselves.

>Without the pillar of truth you are lost, a stray sheep who is easy picking for the devil.

No, I have the Holy Spirit, Christ, and the All-Mighty Father.

I walk in the Light and Follow Christ. Everything else is extraneous.