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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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c9da9d No.545470

Is it a sin to buy bootleg toys?

63c521 No.545485

>>545470

possibly but if you can afford something yet you're still pirating it that's a sin


19d3d1 No.545486

File: 9d2d9cfd047d410⋯.gif (3.85 MB, 300x245, 60:49, pegando a foda fora madrug….gif)

>>545485

>>545485

>pirating is a sin


63c521 No.545488

>>545486

yes it is anon


0f0e6a No.545489

>>545486

Romans 13


19d3d1 No.545494

>>545488

It is not.

>>545489

>pay tributes

>don't make riots

>follow the Lord's commandments

I do all that. I still won't fully submit to a godless state.


aaed5c No.545495

>>545489

Wait so you can pirate if you're in a country that doesn't say anything about it?


0f0e6a No.545509

>>545494

Was Roman Empire in Paul's times a godly state?

And even to such an ungodly state you have to follow its laws, that's what the Church has always taught.


0f0e6a No.545510

>>545495

Maybe yes, maybe not. There is, if I remember correctly, no consensus among theologians. You definitely can't where it's prohibited though.


c2a734 No.545606

>>545510

>You definitely can't where it's prohibited though.

What if the prohibition is stupid? Like in abandonware, a software (e.g. game) is not being produced any longer, but it is still technically under copyright. I think depriving society of a cultural good is a bigger crime than distributing something for free that no one is selling anymore. It doesn't even have to be a video game, it could also be a book.


9fb0e2 No.545619

>>545485

What about pirating something with bad DRM( such as Denuvo which wrecks SSDs) or pirating from a company with foul business practices like EA?

Pirating is often a form of protest, and those who can afford the product often pirate because they want the company to change their ways, be more ethical towards customers, and offer more value instead of nickel-and-diming on DLC and creating broken malware-infested locks in the form of DRM.


19d3d1 No.545632

File: 3e7539413405edb⋯.jpg (7.96 KB, 190x190, 1:1, 1466875543469.jpg)

>>545509

>And even to such an ungodly state you have to follow its laws

>Christianity is forbbiden

>Paul is Christian

>you have to bow down to the Emperor

>christians refuse

>And even to such an ungodly state you have to follow its laws


92a1e6 No.545670

Pirating, piracy, bootlegging, etc. are all literally synonyms for theft.

Thou shalt not steal.

'Nuff said.

Defense of piracy/bootlegging as not being a sin is nothing more than rationalization.


ecb976 No.545698

>>545470

That doesn't make it theft. Reassigning words with new meanings like that is what They do.

Intellectual property doesn't exist because ideas are not scarce resources that can be monopolised the same way real objects can.


aaed5c No.545700

>>545632

You can only reject the country when it goes against god, and even then ONLY when its going against god.


1b842d No.545701

>>545670

Do you think I should delete all my video game ROMs? I had been wondering… On one hand, it's illegal, but on another hand, I can't afford to buy video games or consoles, and certainly not old ones (besides, European video games were in 50hz, meaning they were slowed down).


e1dbda No.545711

>>545700

>You can only reject the country when it goes against god

Abortion

Homosexuality.

Disintegration of identity.

There are few to none Western countries in which God's word is law.


8eb9ff No.545742

>>545701

It's a sin, pal. Sorry.


0f0e6a No.545766

>>545619

>>545701

A good end doesn't make the means good too. In this case, the means are evil and can't be used. For an example of this, saving a mother's life is a good end; but one can't abort her child for this end, because abortion is evil and, as I said above, a good end doesn't excuse evil means.

>>545632

Such unjust laws aren't morally binding - how could any earthly ruler have competence to create laws against God's law, if they are themselves subjects to God's authority? Ungodly laws are null. But the rulers who creates such laws are still God-instituted authorities; by making unjust laws they step outside their competence, not forfeit it. Again, were the pagan Roman emperors godly, good and just rulers? And yet St. Paul told Christians to obey them. Consider also all the theologians (vast majority, if not all, of the Catholic, including pre-schism, ones - I don't know of any - who ever argued against this at least) who since the Apostolic times have constantly been confirming the duty of obeying even an evil king.


4bd7be No.545783

Piracy is not theft. Piracy is piracy. The question is whether piracy is a sin or not. Not theft.

The first thing to note is that supposing piracy were a sin, it would be less serious than theft. Theft takes away something from someone who owns it to give it to someone who doesn't have a right to it. Piracy merely gives to someone who hasn't purchased a "right" to it. There's no taking away involved.

Second, note that even "theft" is justified in cases of necessity. The classic example is that a starving man can morally "steal" food. This is because he has a moral right to the food. (In which case it is not technically theft any more, but that's a whole different autistic tangent.)

Lesser degrees of necessity than literal imminent starvation can also justify "theft." Namely, any instance in which a good's "owner" would be unreasonable if he refused to give that good to a given person if asked for it, is an instance in which that given person could justifiably "steal" it.

Piracy involves no property, in the strict sense. There is no "taking away". Only an addition. So piracy and theft can by no means be equated.

It is true that the collective effect of many instances of piracy might have negative effects on the production of "intellectual goods" as a whole. This does not however affect the moral meaning of piracy, since morality concerns individual choices, not trends as a whole and obscure economic consequences.

This is also telling against the argument that "the workman deserves his pay". No one denies it, but who exactly should pay? I can work as hard as I please writing great novels or making beautiful music, but no one will pay me for that. What they will (sometimes) pay for is the ability to access these goods. Which is not, you will note, the work itself. Is this system unjust? No money paid for the work, but plenty of money paid for the marketing and convenience? Some would say it's just a stupid system.

However, the potential for negative macroeconomic effects of piracy is what justifies governments in creating laws concerning the fiction of "intellectual property". These laws are prudent when they actually, in real life, serve their intended end, and imprudent when they do not. In no case that I can imagine would such laws be immoral.

The degree of fidelity a Christian owes to the laws of a government is not absolute. The government's laws are subordinate to the true common good. If in a given instance, following the law would harm the common good, breaking that law in a way that serves the common good is justified, because it would be serving the same end which the law exists to serve. This is assuming that the given law in this instance is not itself contrary to the natural law.

Making the prudential decision as to whether breaking a law in a given case is justified is generally out of the "moral jurisdiction," so to speak, of individual citizens. No one should take it upon himself to decide if breaking the law in a given case is a good thing, because the presumption leans so heavily against it. The only exception to this rule is cases where only that person himself and people under his authority would be involved. One might for instance settle a family problem internally without recourse to the police, even if we suppose there were a mandatory reporting law in such cases.

That is about the extent of my personal analysis of the issue. Corrections gratefully accepted.


92a1e6 No.546462

>>545701

>Do you think I should delete all my video game ROMs? I had been wondering… On one hand, it's illegal, but on another hand, I can't afford to buy video games or consoles, and certainly not old ones

Yes, because I too bought into the "ethical pirate" rationalization.

"Oh I'll just keep these around until I get enough money to buy them." I told myself.

Literally years later, when I first came back to Christ, I started going through and clearing my computer and room of all pirated material. During this process, I realized just how many opportunities I came into to acquire these things legally, but passed them up for other things due to the subconscious realization that I "already owned them." As soon as I cleared out all of the pirated material, I started becoming motivated to acquire the material legally.

Don't fall for the "ethical pirate" trap.


536270 No.546568

>>546462

tbh i feel like itd be okay to pirate things that are impossible to get legally anyways. where the fuck am i going to get a fire emblem snes cart in english? americans cant even buy it to give the developers money


ad715e No.546607

Piracy is not theft, Piracy is just file sharing. You make a copy of a movie or game to share on the internet. There is no loss of property, no physical goods were removed, no theft took place. Now, if you feel guilty for piracy that's your own business, but there is no nothing inherently wrong in the slightest for sharing a file.


f607e3 No.546608

>>546607

I pirated things only when there's some morally objectionable content, those developers don't deserve money for making anti-Christian stuff.


bd0776 No.546614

File: 2bc5b701fbc568e⋯.jpg (16 KB, 450x343, 450:343, serveimage.jpg)

Piracy and theft are different things. If you use a 3d printer to make a copy of a lego brick, than you've pirated the lego, no theft was involved.

This is not rationalization of sin, it's simply not the same as stealing. Even if you tried to buy old Nintendo games at the flea market or swap meet, you wouldn't buy them from the original supplier, and they don't even own the rights to most of the old games..


ee7cd7 No.546617

>>546607

Is sneaking into a movie theater without paying okay then? Assuming it's a mostly empty theater that would have had a ton of empty seats anyway, you're not technically taking anything away and the theater doesn't lose anything.


f607e3 No.546619

>>546617

private property exists, you know.


7eb876 No.546620

>>546614

Tis sort of "technically not sinful" is the sort of reason why the jews aren't the chosen people anymore.


657433 No.546646

>>546620

Accusatory browbeating isn't an argument.

>Tis sort of "technically not sinful"

You're lumping one topic with who knows how many other ones. Not to mention the loaded part at the end.


0b3c91 No.546662

>>546614

It's best to not try to find loopholes in God's commandments.


657433 No.546700

>>546662

Thanks for listening.


95ea18 No.547080

>>546662

>>546620

You're buying into ((corporate lies)), Piracy actually helps products, they want you to think it's the same as stealing because they want something to blame their lack of quality/sales on.

This article shows how piracy helps products https://archive.fo/wpKiZ




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