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File: 1456514661621.jpg (521.42 KB, 1125x1600, 45:64, 1The3.jpg)

 No.9695

Where does /asatru/ stand on traditional Islam?

I ask because a friend who had introduced me to politics and Asatru is planning on becoming a Muslim. He says it doesn't conflict with his traditionalist views and in fact supports them. Both Paganism and Islam are worldly, in the Nietzschean sense, in contrast to Christianity which is otherworldly. So basically Asatru and Islam share a common enemy in the Christian, although it still might not be possible for pagans to ally with Muslims.

From Nietzsche:

>If Islam despises Christianity, it has a thousandfold right to do so: Islam at least assumes that it is dealing with men.

>Christianity destroyed for us the whole harvest of ancient civilization, and later it also destroyed for us the whole harvest of Mohammedan civilization. The wonderful culture of the Moors in Spain, which was fundamentally nearer to us and appealed more to our senses and tastes than that of Rome and Greece, was trampled down (—I do not say by what sort of feet—) Why? Because it had to thank noble and manly instincts for its origin—because it said yes to life, even to the rare and refined luxuriousness of Moorish life!… The crusaders later made war on something before which it would have been more fitting for them to have grovelled in the dust—a civilization beside which even that of our nineteenth century seems very poor and very “senile.”

'While both Islam and Asatru can be used to cleanse the West of the Christian virus, including its liberal egalitarianism, it's only in Islam that something is actively being done. Pagans may not gain power soon enough, and it's the Muslims who are doing to Christians what the Christians did to pagans of old. At least this means Muslims cannot raze pagan structures and temples, as there is nothing to raze in the first place.'

This is roughly what my friend says, I'm not sure I fully agree with him and will research this subject further.

 No.9700

This is retarded on many levels.

>So basically Asatru and Islam share a common enemy in the Christian

Islam is also our enemy. For all its existence Islam has tried to conquer Europe. Not through conversion like the Christians did, but through replacement of our people. In that way I am happy about Christianity being "otherworldly" since it leaves the "worldliness" to us, in some way coexisting if it weren't for the bible. Islam will not be that generous in that case.

I will always prefer the European to a shitskin.

>At least this means Muslims cannot raze pagan structures and temples, as there is nothing to raze in the first place.

Those structures are still fruits of our European blood, even if our brain was plagued with a parasite. I also hope you realize, that Muslims absolutely despise Pagans, much much more than they could ever despise Christians. In that regard they won't raze our buildings, but simply use them themselves and ultimately replace us Europeans, as we will always gravitate towards paganism.

Considering to ally with Muslims is absolutely disgusting.


 No.9701

This is so fucking stupid, I don't even know where to begin. First off, Christianity is the least of the 3 abrahamic evils, mainly because it is docile at the moment. Islam, however, is the worst of the 3 abrahamic evils because of its numbers and aggressiveness. If Christianity is a virus, Islam is cancer and Judaism is the root of all illness. Islam should be stomped out violently, then we shall worry about Christianity. Also, Nietzsche is a fucking faggot.


 No.9724

File: 1456596783951.jpg (428.01 KB, 682x1024, 341:512, 1449252420548.jpg)

Islam, like folkish heathenry, is pretty much a warrior's religion. That much can be said to be true, since even Himmler recognized this openly. But this is pretty much the only thing they have in common. The closest christian conception of a warrior ethos could be found in the romanian Iron Guard, but they too only achieved this by merging judeo-pisstianity with the european-pagan ethos and a borderline-hegelian crypto-endorsement of pagan rites and metaphors.

Also don't forget that the kabaa in mecca literally used to be a pagan place of worship until mohammed conquered it with his followers, so this might be another explanation for these superficial similarities between folkish european heathenry and some aspects of islam.


 No.9725

>>9695

Nietzsche is pretty retarded when it comes to that quote. But why on earth would you want to worship ONE god??? Why would pagans ever share an alliance with an ABRAHAMIC/SEMITIC religion? Why not just become a fucking Hindu? We would rather share an alliance with them considering it's an indo-european religion.


 No.9726

>>9695

Islam is a hundred times worse than any christian church has ever been.

I will fight together with my European christian brothers to fight the brown islamic hordes, just like we did hundreds of years ago, and any white man that allied itself with islam will be hung as offerings to the gods.


 No.9733

>Where does /asatru/ stand on traditional Islam?

I literally stand on the corpses of its followers.


 No.9738

From Nietzsche:

>What an affirmative Aryan religion, the product of the ruling class, looks like: the law-book of Manu. (The deification of the feeling of power in Brahma: interesting that it arose among the warrior caste and was only transferred to the priests.)

>What an affirmative Semitic religion, the product of the ruling class, looks like: the law-book of Mohammed, the older parts of the Old Testament. (Mohammedanism, as a religion for men, is deeply contemptuous of the sentimentality and mendaciousness of Christianity–which it feels to be a woman's religion.)

>What a negative Semitic religion, the product of an oppressed class, looks like: the New Testament (–in Indian-Aryan terms: a chandala religion).

>What a negative Aryan religion looks like, grown up among the ruling orders: Buddhism.

>It is quite in order that we possess no religion of oppressed Aryan races, for that is a contradiction: a master race is either on top or it is destroyed.


 No.9741

>>9700

It hasn't really been our enemy as much as it's been the enemy of the Christians. Maybe it would have been better had Muslims conquered Europe, as it would have appealed to European tastes more. That's why it doesn't bother me that Europe is becoming Islamic, because in doing so it's also bringing back the life affirmation that Nietzsche talks about

>>9701

The difference is Christianity appeals to weakness and meekness while Islam doesn't, this makes it more deadly to the pacified masses

>>9725

See >>9738


 No.9742

File: 1456726018653.jpg (12.17 KB, 330x282, 55:47, inigo montoya.jpg)

>>9741

>islam

>life affirming

wew lad, just wew.


 No.9746

>>9741

>Europe would have been better off with European men murdered and women raped until no Europeans were left just like in Egypt, Libya, Morocco, Anatolia, etc.

Get the fuck out traitor.


 No.9747

File: 1456767988585.jpg (3.29 MB, 3512x2560, 439:320, Flickr_-_…trialsanderrors_….jpg)

>>9746

Don't put words in my mouth, Christcuck

>"Let us assume that the Turks in whose ranks Europeans were fighting as well, even in high positions, would have conquered Vienna and Europe in 1683 instead of having been forced to withdraw. If the Mohammedans would have gained the victory at the time and Islam would have swept victoriously over Europe, then the Christian churches would have been depoliticized. (…) For the Turks were religiously tolerant, they allowed each religion to continue to exist, provided it was no longer involved in politics – otherwise it was finished." - Himmler


 No.9748

>submission to god

literally the gayest thing ever


 No.9751

>>9742

But it is. Mohammad had what, a dozen wives? The stories say he used to fuck them all in a single night. He even cuckolded his first adopted son (the story is in the Koran, where "Allah" is chiding ol' Mo for not giving the girl the D - http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/quran/verses/033-qmt.php#033.036). And of course there's the fact that he had several concubines. "Life-affirming" neo pagans should love this degenerate.

All throughout the Koran there are verses about how fucking great this world is, and how nature is God's masterpiece. About how enjoyments are godly, even and even especially when gained through conquest. About how "evil" asceticism is, which something Mohammad really liked to stress. Judaism has the same attitude, funnily enough. Kikes, Muslims, Neo pagans. Peas in a pod.


 No.9755

>>9751

How come the ultimate results are so dramatically different when one compares Islam to Paganism and Pagan influenced Christianity?

Great Empires of note roughly divided by the aforementioned beliefs:

Paganism: Mesopotamian Empires (Babylonian, Sumer, Akkadian, and Assyrian); Egypt; Greece; Rome; the first Persian Empires before Islam.

Pagan influenced Christian Europe: Holy Roman Empire; British Empire; American Empire.

Islam: Ottoman Empire………………………………………*sound of crickets chirping*

Yes there were some caliphates here and there classified as "Empires" before the Ottoman Empire, in the aftermath of the Muslim conquest, but can anyone honestly remember them off the top of their heads?

How come the early Pagan empires/civilizations are the cradles and foundations of civilization as we know it today, and the Christians began doing great things after recovering Pagan knowledge during the Enlightenment (the Dark Ages were exaggerated, but the Enlightenment was called the Enlightenment for a reason.); while Islam, did okay for awhile due to riding on the coattails of the Persian Empires that came before them, but then proceeded to drive the Middle East into the ground in a single generation, and is now considered the killer of classical civilization?:

http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/showthread.php?213088-How-Islam-Destroyed-The-Middle-East-In-One-Generation

How come the countries of the Pagan-Christian West are the super powers of the world, while most of the Middle East is a barbaric third world shithole with a scientific output that has declined to almost nothing:

http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/comment/how-the-decline-of-muslim-scientific-thought-still-haunts

http://www.meforum.org/306/why-does-the-muslim-world-lag-in-science

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/why-the-arabic-world-turned-away-from-science

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/30/science/how-islam-won-and-lost-the-lead-in-science.html?pagewanted=all

…and at best, some decadent oil baron cities like Dubai, with degenerate Sheikhs who spend their money, time and effort on Dubai porta-potties:

https://muricaderp.wordpress.com/2015/02/27/dubai-porta-potty/

https://thedirty.com/gossip/celebrities/porta-potty/

As for honest to goodness Jewish Empires (outside of manipulated Western Empires)…. please excuse me while I proceed to go somewhere private and uproariously laugh for 20 straight minutes.

Face it: even the Slave religion (or more accurately, the Schizophrenic fused Master and Slave religion) of a superior race is better than the "Master" religion of a corrupted mud race.

What is Paganism at it's core? The blood and thus the natural expression and tendencies of the White race.


 No.9756

>>9755

(cont'd)

As for Nietzsche and Himmler: from the aforementioned link I provided, detailing how Islam destroyed the Middle East:

>"In the politically correct 21st century, which extols the grandeur of the “Golden Age of Islam in Iberia”, Pirenne’s stock can only decline further. Our degraded culture is not receptive to the idea that it was Islam, rather than the Germanic barbarians, that destroyed the culture and civilization of Rome."

>"We must presume that even in 1948 the American government was fastidious about offending the sensibilities of Muslims, because Dr. Lowdermilk’s report on the destruction of agricultural resources in the Maghreb refers only to invading “nomads”, making no mention of Islam or Arabs."

>"The abundance of archaeology from Visigothic times contrasts sharply with the virtually complete absence of all archaeology from the first two centuries of the Islamic epoch. This is a fact that has only recently come to the attention of the scholarly community, and assuredly constitutes one of the greatest puzzles unearthed by excavation. We have traditionally been told that the first two centuries of the Spanish Emirate, supposedly founded in 756 by Abd’ er Rahman I, constituted a veritable Golden Age of Spanish history. The following description of eighth-tenth century Cordoba, written by English historian H. St. L. B. Moss in 1935, may be regarded as fairly typical of the genre: “In Spain … the foundation of Umayyad power [in 756] ushers in an era of unequalled splendour, which reaches its height in the early part of the tenth century. The great university of Cordova is thronged with students … while the city itself excites the wonder of visitors from Germany and France. The banks of the Guadalquivir are covered with luxurious villas, and born of the ruler’s caprice rises the famous Palace of the Flower, a fantastic city of delights.”

>The picture Moss paints was derived from medieval Arab annalists, who spoke of a city of half a million inhabitants, of three thousand mosques, of one hundred and thirteen thousand houses, and of three hundred public baths — this not even counting the twenty-eight suburbs said to have surrounded the metropolis.

>Yes, this is the scenario we’re all familiar with — the Golden Age of Islam, as exemplified by the splendor, tolerance, and enlightenment of Umayyad Cordoba. This story is still retailed by Muslim Brotherhood talking heads on Western television and pumped into school textbooks — whose curricula are also specified by the Muslim Brotherhood — throughout the West.

>But the archaeology tells a different story:"

>"This distorted and romanticized view of the Mediterranean and its past, which ignored the savagery and fear of the past millennium, was particularly characteristic of those of Anglo-Saxon origin, with whom there was the added problem of religious antagonism. With the reign of Elizabeth I, England became the mortal enemy of Catholic Europe; and the Catholic power of the time was of course Spain. From this point on, English-speaking historians tended to be heavily biased against Catholic Spain and, unsurprisingly, extremely favorable towards Spain’s Muslim enemies, who were romanticized and portrayed as cultured and urbane. It was then that the myth of the “golden age” of the Spanish Caliphate was born — a myth which, as we have seen, still has a very wide circulation."

TL;DR: There was a "Golden Age of Islam" mythos that was widely circulated in the West, even into the mid-20th century, that even Nietzsche and Himmler were influenced by.


 No.9762

>>9755

>>9756

I think you're confusing me with the other guy, I despise Islam. I don't think "life affirmation" is a virtue.

Still, I can argue this: the pagan vikings never built empires. And the "corrupted mud race" can be blamed, instead of Islam itself.


 No.9771

>>9762

>I don't think "life affirmation" is a virtue.

"Life Affirmation" does not mean "Mindless Hedonism." It means acceptance of life and the world as it is.

Christianity, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, and yes, even Islam and Judsiam, at the end of the day are all world-rejecting religions that view physical reality on this earth as either evil, hopelessly flawed, illusion, or a vanity to be endured until they reach a far superior afterlife. (where do you think Muslims being willing to blow themselves up for 42 virgins ultimately derives from?)

Pagan folkways and Nietzsche's "Life Affirmation" concept have to do with viewing the nature of physical reality on this earth, as neither an evil degenerate vanity to be endured until an utopian afterlife, nor as a fluffy magic candy land of dreams and naive optimism, but simply, as is. Warts and all. Even ugly and painful moments in this world can be teachers, or even beautiful in their own right.

>the pagan vikings never built empires.

True. However, the Northern and Western European peoples as a whole adapted quickly to the precepts of Classical Civilization and went on to create their own empires, and are now arguably the dominant cultural force on this earth.

They are like the poor man, who through gumption, hustling, and street smarts, eventually becomes a self-made millionaire.

Islam, on the other hand, was handed the coffer of the cradle of civilization on a silver platter, and utterly ruined it all.

They are like the trust fund baby, who through idleness and recklessness pisses all of their fortune away, and is reduced to being a vagrant on the street giving blow-jobs for smack.


 No.9779

>>9741

>It hasn't really been our enemy

Give it chance, there's plenty of then here now


 No.9782

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>9771

Yes, I refuse to accept the world.

>a vanity to be endured until they reach a far superior afterlife. (where do you think Muslims being willing to blow themselves up for 42

virgins ultimately derives from?)

It is amazing to me how you can make this argument. This is not an argument for traditional European mythology, but for atheism. What is Valhalla? Of course, you don't believe in it…


 No.9784

>>9782

I think the difference is in the attitude. In most Abrahamic religions the world is profane, and only the afterlife is sacred. Paganism generally sees the world as part of the sacred, either as divine in itself or as a means for the divine to be expressed. In Abrahamic religions considering the physical world to be sacred amounts to idolatry.


 No.9790

>>9784

>a means for the divine to be expressed

http://www.parsquran.com/eng/articles/signs.htm

“But seek, through that which Allah has given you, the home of the hereafter; and (yet), do not forget your share of the world.” (Qur’an 28:77)

Seems pretty pagan-tier tbh


 No.9792

>>9782

Actually, this argument is not amazing at all, but simply a statement of Heathen belief. Valhalla, in it's modern conception, is the product of Heathenry syncretising with Christianity.

In the original Heathen worldview, there was no such thing as "seperate spiritual realms far away and distant from the earth." People died and inhabited their gravemounds or "lived" out their afterlife in the land or a nearby mountain with their ancestral line (i.e. the modern ritual of leaving flowers at a gravestone and having conversations with the deceased at that location is descended from the actual original Heathen belief of the spirit and body being one, and of leaving offerings for worship and favors.)

It was not until contact with Semitic belief systems that Valhalla transformed from a metaphor for mass burial grounds in the aftermath of battles, to a separate spiritual realm of ultimate reward.

Descriptions of the afterlife before Christian influence tended to be of a simple continuation of how life was in the physical realm. In other words, no streets paved with gold or an ultimate realm of peace and paradise.

>>9790

Yet even in the quote you provide, the emphasis is squarely on the home of the hereafter; with one's share of the world as being a nice bonus, at best, rather than being on equal footing.

Btw…

>Yes, I refuse to accept the world

Why? Is your life that terrible, or do you just view the world as that terrible?


 No.9793

>>9792

Well, then it would have meshed with their 'racial soul' since they assimilated it after "contact" as you say. Traditions do evolve.

>the actual original Heathen belief of the spirit and body being one

I've heard this before. Do you have a source?

>Why? Is your life that terrible, or do you just view the world as that terrible?

Unfortunately, I am all too comfortable. No, I just think life is irrational and animalistic. I like what I've heard about Buddha's perspective.


 No.9798

>>9793

>Well, then it would have meshed with their 'racial soul' since they assimilated it after "contact" as you say. Traditions do evolve.

I had always felt, and witnessed in others, a cognitive dissonance between Christian belief and Heathen instincts and ways of being. People acting different during the week than they did on Sunday,indicating a separation of religion and everyday being that did not exist back in Heathen times when there was no name for a religion, since it was simply the way things were done.

You can also see this in the way that the West is slowly coming apart at the seams, as the Pagan influences on Christianity, such as tribalism, hierarchy and family values give way to the pathological altruism, equality and hyper individualism of the logical conclusion of the Christian worldview. So I find myself disagreeing with you.

>I've heard this before. Do you have a source?

Check the Mega pdf collection in this thread:

>>9731

Go in the 8chan asatru pdf collection folder.

Go to the "Books by Bil Linzie" folder.

Read the following pdfs:

after_life_bil_linzie.pdf

germanic_spirituality.pdf

reincarnation2.pdf

Also check out the folder "The Road To Hel" and read the pdf in there.

That should cover it if memory serves me correctly. Also read the rest of Linzie's stuff if you can.


 No.9799

>>9798

I'm saying that the ideal afterlife concept must have meshed with their soul, since they syncetrically assimilated it.

I know it's Wikipedia and I can't check the source, but this suggests that they made a distinction between body and spirit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_in_Norse_paganism#The_soul

It seems strange to me that they would instead agree with the hardcore scientism-materialists of today.


 No.9805

>>9799

Adoption does not necessarily mean perfect enmeshment with the soul. I can like Indian headdresses and think they are neat and wear them, but that doesn't make me an Indian. As I implied before, White civilization as a whole essentially adopted a mixture of Semitic and proto-Bolshevist belief. A mere 2,000 or so years later, we still act in ways that demonstrate a cognitive dissonance with this worldview when push comes to shove.

Your link's information on the soul is mostly accurate, particularly in outlying the soul having multiple parts. In retrospect, saying the body and soul are one was a bit overly simplistic on my part. A more accurate way to put it is that the soul is heavily tied to the body and land.

In Christianity and many other religions, when you die, you soul goes off to an entirely separate realm far away from the physical plane.

In Heathenry, your soul is heavily tied to your body and the local land. I previously mentioned gravestone and flower rituals. Oftentimes the familial dead were buried very close to the family home, or even outright under the home in the foundation in order to provide influence, luck and protection.

There is also the story of a king/chieftain who was so beloved, his body was split into multiple pieces to be buried in multiple towns, so that each town could prosper from his luck.

However, when the article begins referring to "the soul's journey to the realm of the dead" is when Christian syncretism starts showing.


 No.9808

>>9805

The syncretism happened naturally and voluntarily, so I don't know what else "enmeshment" could mean. You can argue that there is dissonance with the entire worldview (which was imposed), I'm just talking about the afterlife mythology. As for Christianity's perspective, the resurrection of the body is considered an essential doctrine, though it is said to go to a separate realm.


 No.9810

File: 1457565187211.jpg (60.39 KB, 750x683, 750:683, 1455800623153.jpg)

>Where does /asatru/ stand on traditional Islam?

1) The Magian form of spirituality is inferior.

2) Islam is the final, most nihilistic phase of that particular form of spirituality, and is arguably in an even worse state than our Western one.

I mean, I've yet to meet the Arabian young fellows who go on the internet to discuss the esoteric undercurrents of their civilisation and the ways to revitalise it. The ones who might care go about as far as throwing fags off rooftops and raping white girls.

Islam brings only r-selected mediocrity.


 No.9812

>>9810

Sufism (which is essentially esoteric Islam) is quite popular in the Islamic world. In fact, it's alive and well even in places like America.

What's so nihilistic about Islam? From what I see there is almost no longer any Western spirituality.


 No.9813

>>9808

>The syncretism happened naturally and voluntarily

>Traditions do evolve.

That does not necessarily make it a good thing. Evolution does not inherently imply improvement. Corruption and simplification can happen. Just as a single-celled organism can evolve into a fish, so too can a mighty Tyrannosaurus evolve into the humble chicken you eat at your local KFC.

Overall, Heathenry's syncretism with Christianity has had a degenerative effect on the folkway.

Thanks to the Semitic separate realms concept, where once terms like Midgard, and Utengard conveyed ideas such as the standards and boundaries of a community and it's holiest of holies, now you open a typical mainstream book on the Norse myths, and you have a tree connecting to separate spiritual realms like something out of a fantasy novel.

Thanks to "personal relationship with Christ" baggage, where once there was hierarchy, and a greater sense of getting help from others in your community, and knowledge of local spirits, now, especially in the loony fringes of the fluffbunny crowd, you have Heathens narcisstically going on about how Odin is their best friend evah (or even the likes of Loki and Fenris.)

Hel, degeneration of beliefs can happen within a worldview over time, void of syncretism. Freya and Frigg are practically fairy tale characters compared to what they used to embody:

>>9659

>>9660

>>9807


 No.9817

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>9810

Actually Islam has a strong esoteric dimension if you know where to look. I could turn the tables and say that its Heathenism that lacks esotericism, because all the 'mystics' are either New Age Wicca-types or Chaos Magick occultists. Look up Frithjof Schuon, Titus Burckhardt, and Rene Guenon among others in the Perennialist/Traditionalist Schools, if anything it was their search for the esoteric that led them to Islam.

This is the sort of Islam that I might convert to, and not the Wahhabi shit that is peddled to the world


 No.9821

>>9812

>>9817

Whatever floats your boats.

Personally I'd rather just roll up my sleeves and work on reconstructing the esoteric traditions of my own blood, rather than just throw my hands up and betray the West by joining a tiny quasi-positive subculture of an overall culture that has destroyed the Middle East and Classical Civilization.


 No.9822

>>9821

(con'td)

Also, just to be preemptive:

>B-b-but Asatru is tiny too! A-a-and esoteric Islam doesn't need reconstructing!

Like I said: I'll take my own blood over an alien culture. Period.


 No.9823

>>9822

(cont'd) Oh yeah, I almost forgot; you might try this angle as well too:

>B-b-but Wiccan and New Agers are currently dominating your population right now!

New Age and Wiccan "Heathenry" is so heavily influenced by Semitic belief and Mystery Tradition, that it would be more accurate to collectively call these beliefs: "Mystery-Christianity with Heathen sprinkles." To consider these beliefs to be representative of Heathenry is a joke.

>B-b-but Sunni and Shia does not represent the TRUE Islam like Sufi and esoteric Islam does!

Unlike New Age and Wicca, Sunni and Shia sects of Islam have a history of representing Islam going MUCH further back than the 1950's.

And if I'm wrong, and Sufi truly is the one true Islam that has been hijacked by Sunni's and Shia's. Then good for the Sufis! Let THEM clean up their mess. Not my problem, nor the problem of any Heathen.


 No.9824

>>9821

>>9822

>>9823

You assume too much. I have no immediate plans of becoming Muslim, although I admit the prospect of it is becoming increasingly attractive as my knowledge grows. Whether you agree or not our aim is exactly the same, which is the reconstruction of the Western Tradition. I think many of us doubt if we're even capable of doing it on our own and I think this realization will drive Western man to one of two mentalities: the Dharmic and especially the Islamic. If this is true then the question that arises is 'how would this help in reconstruction?'. To which I say you simply need to look back at how our ancestors before us handled this issue. We forget that the Aryans were not native to much of our homeland and brought to us a foreign religion, and yet we have no doubt now that the faith of Homer and Caesar was European. This isn't because the mists of time have outwitted us, but rather because our traditions always shone through at the end, whatever the exoteric looked like we knew what was ours as a child knows her mother. In other words perhaps we should follow the example of our ancestors once more and use Islam as an enzyme to awaken our own native spirituality. At least my system is a bit more optimistic than say Spengler's, whom this anon referred to >>9810 if you don't know, he's the same fellow who said there's no hope at all for Western man and we can only look forward to irreligiousity until we all die away.

What's turning me off Asatru is it feels like we're wasting our efforts trying to patch together an old torn garment when we have all the material necessary to make a new one.


 No.9827

>>9824

Using Islam as a template to revive the West makes absolutely no sense.

We've already got a good thing going in Asatru, and the current revival has only been around for about 30 to 40ish years. To put that in perspective, it took Christianity about 400 years before it became the state religion of Rome.

Even if new archaeological and historical discoveries dry up on the Germanic/Scandinavian/Saxon front, we've still got Celtic tradition, Slavic tradition, and especially well-preserved traditions like the paganism of the Greeks and Romans to do comparative reconstruction from.

Also, you've said it yourself: Hinduism is pretty much the umbrella faith of the Aryan worldview, and it's pretty well preserved.

And if we absolutely have to draw help from a Semitic worldview, considering how much of European Paganism is embedded in it, Christianity is no contest.

Hel, even some of the occult stuff from /fringe/ and Hermeticism has some European esotericism that can be potentially reverse engineered.

So I ask you: considering all the authentic European and Aryan resources we have to draw from, why the hell do we need Islam to save us? Why bother with a Semitic faith that is literally just a spin-off from another Semitic faith, and one that has no direct ties to Aryan culture whatsoever? A faith that, outside of a tiny esoteric sect, has lead to the cradle of civilization becoming a third world hellhole?

At the most, if there is stuff in esoteric Islam that could corroborate with and compliment the resources outlined earlier, I might be open to that. But outright using Islam as a foundation? Preposterous.

I looked up the three men you mentioned. Some of what they worked on seemed to be beneficial, However, all of them took Islamic names. Perhaps I don't know the whole story, but my gut reaction is one of revulsion and disgust. Why would someone with supposed respect for tradition, want to replace their European name with a Semitic one.

Also, though Spengler did predict ultimate destruction, I do also recall him predicting rebirth in the aftermath.


 No.9828

>>9824

(cont'd)

>What's turning me off Asatru is it feels like we're wasting our efforts trying to patch together an old torn garment when we have all the material necessary to make a new one.

I don't think you're turned off, so much as impatient. You forget, while our heritage is thousands of years old, our actual modern moment is only a few decades old at best.

You see an old torn garment. I see a complicated disassembled palace that is going to take patience and fortitude to properly put back together.

Using Islam as a foundation is like just hijacking the Islamic palace and slapping Western stickers on it. The Wiccans and New Agers did exactly that, (With Mystery-Christianity as the palace, and Heathenry as the stickers) and look how that turned out.


 No.9856

I have very conflicting opinions towards the Arabs in Sweden. While I really hate the insane cult of a religion most of them practice, I admire their disdain for the law.


 No.9858

>>9856

Du låter som en hanrej


 No.9862

File: 1458082020407.jpg (90.94 KB, 330x480, 11:16, cf3ced8fb928c8e0c62b63acc4….jpg)

>>9810

>1) The Magian form of spirituality is inferior.

Let me rephrase that. The Magian world is in a more shitty situation that the West is.

Islam is the end station for that type of spirituality, a form of fatalism that paralyzes a civilization to the point that we are familiar with; people in Bosnia or Pakistan just exist and consume and breed, without any drive to cultivate something bigger.

So yes, traditional islam does tap into perennial streams of religious thinking, just like every other serious religion. But the destiny of its path leads to stagnation.

However, with the final phase of Western culture, materialism or liberalism or whatever you want to call it, there is still the potential for creative destruction. Remember that Faust gets saved because of his incessant action. Islam just festers on dying civilizations like gangrene until the lights go out.

In other worlds, you're not going to rejuvenate the West with the ossified spirituality of a similarly declining culture.


 No.9866

>>9858

Nä, jag hatar bara sossar.




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