7be247 No.15395
I'm starting to make progress on my spy sim. The short description is its a 'snoop-em-up' where you can hack into peoples computers, follow them around, search their houses when they're not home, examine their credit card charges, etc. All for perfectly valid security reasons of course :^)
This is really a reimagining of an old Sid Meier game called Covert Action. You played a CIA agent going around wiretapping drug cartels and raiding locations, trying to uncover a plot before it was too late. There were two levels of gameplay to it, first being the minigames you performed to tap a phone or search a location (the latter being a topdown shooter that could get pretty intense). But the other layer of gameplay, that I think had more potential, was the metagame of deciding who to investigate and how to allocate your resources. Its this second mechanic that Im trying to focus on with my game. So there won't be a clear 'go here, now go here, now do this' linear procession, it'll be a very organic mix of what do you know, how much time do you have, and what resources are available.
Player resources take the form of cash, earned through successful missions and periodic milestones, as well as freelance work on the side. Another resource is prestige, so you can't simply go around kidnapping people off the streets to interrogate. If you aren't prestigious enough as a private security firm to convince an ISP to hand over a customers records, you can always simply hack your way in, although this will harm your prestige even more, forcing you to spend money on media consultants to protect your brands good name (or take matters into your own hands if a particular journalist is being too persistent).
In the previous example, unmasking a user via their IP, the 'right' way to do it is to build up enough evidence against the suspect to get a subpoena to force the ISP to hand over the records. There will be a lot of weight given to legal-but-cumbersome versus questionable-but-direct methods. I'm not sure if I want to address 'enhanced interrogation' directly, but the questions it raised are definitely a theme of the game.
____________________________
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7be247 No.15396
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7be247 No.15397
Technical stuff, I'm using Unity. I'm hoping to have something playable for the halfchan AGDG demo day in early May, although it'll be less of a demo and more of a proof-of-concept.
The architecture of the game is a simulated world, on top of which sits a rigid AI mission scripting. I say rigid because its not designed to tolerate disruption. So in other words, once you start arresting people, you'd better go after everyone at once, because once a suspect doesn't show up to the drop point, the entire crew is going to go underground. This is less a design decision and more about my limitations as a coder. So the player doesn't have any agency in the world. Its purely a surveillance role, which lets me design cooler systems without worrying about how they'd react to the player mucking about inside them. This can hopefully be mitigated somewhat by giving the player side missions to retrieve data from the world, for example copying a database or looking up someones license plate number to sell to a third party, but in the end there won't be an ability to directly change the in-game world the way you could in for example Uplink by running the Revelation virus.
Speaking of Uplink, my inspirations/favorite games who I'll be basing the feel/attitude off of are Uplink, Deus Ex, DEFCON, and Hacker Evolution. So definitely more on the cyber grimdark side than tongue-in-cheek like Evil Genius, hopefully without getting into 'edgy' territory.
A couple recent progress webms, nothing is final obviously, still playing with how I want to present information. Im aiming to get the engine/game done, THEN find an artist and let them make assets while I work on mission content.
>>15396NO U
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7be247 No.15402
>>15397Whoops, looks like I spoke too soon. You actually made some decent progress, too.
My only suggestion so far is to change the drop-down, bouncing menu on the right side to slide in from the right instead.
Will the AI have routines other than meeting politicians? I could imagine accidentally wasting a turn watching a suspect go to McDonalds or something, but if you watch their schedule you can know when to snoop through their files when they're away from home, or have them arrested a few turns before they're supposed to meet up for a drop point so you have time to interrogate them for more information and know who to arrest next.
Or even have some unstable contacts. If one character thinks another character is a snitch (which you'd find out from reading their emails), you could arrest him and cause the other to panic and go underground unless you hack their computer and send him an email saying he had some business on the other side of town or something in the turn before they're supposed to meet up. That way you'd have a couple more turns to find the other one and arrest him too, but there's a chance he won't buy into it and might go underground anyway.
It's an interesting concept. Hacker Evolution bored me to tears, but I'm interested to see how this goes.
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7be247 No.17625
There are more systems in place, but they still feel disjointed separate. I should take a few days to collect up what already exists and make something playable, rather than tacking on new things that just spread the idea out further.
>>15402
> I could imagine accidentally wasting a turn watching a suspect go to McDonalds or something, but if you watch their schedule you can know when to snoop through their files when they're away from home, or have them arrested a few turns before they're supposed to meet up for a drop point so you have time to interrogate them for more information and know who to arrest next.
Thats actually exactly what I want the decisionmaking experience to be about. If you see some intelligence where they say they'll meet at the docks at midnight, you better follow him there or have surveillance set up, or use the window to break into his house. But its probably not worth following him to and from work every day, or pulling security tapes of him buying gas (unless you want his license plate). Frankly I'm not sure how much detail I want to put in, for example if you follow him to McDonalds, his credit card better have a McDonalds charge on it. But if you are going through his finances, how would a player know that the McDonalds receipt was just clutter, but the gas station receipt was some kind of vital clue? I don't want to cut out all the clues other than those that matter, because that'd be the equivalent of a glowing mission marker. But on the other hand, I dont want the player to be overwhelmed with red herrings.
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7be247 No.17642
You should read Mitnicks biography, "Ghost in the wires" and Kingpin if you want some inspiration
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7be247 No.17770
>>15395
Looks great OP, I've seen some of the videos in various other threads too.
My only gripes are with the UI, the edge glow on everything looks cheap. I'd say go with more flat colours and save the neon glow for important things (Like highlighting a suspect on the move)
Also maybe drop the icons out of the submenu for each asset, if you're picking surveillance or wiretapping or whatever, you dont need a big picture of a phone or binoculars to show the user.
Other than that, fucking amazing looking game, what are you coding it in?
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7be247 No.18230
>>17625
Anon from the other /agdg/ general thread here, I threw this UI together based on a classic command prompt theme.
If I'm going to be playing a hacking game, I want it to look like I'm *hacking*, not chatting with my friends on MSN messenger.
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7be247 No.18248
>>18230
Its missing a few things, but a pretty close match I think
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7be247 No.18383
>>17770
Yeah for sure the UI assets are junk, they're actually just the default/demonstration assets that came with a GUI library I bought. My overall strategy is to get the game working from a programming perspective, then use the prototype as a way to lure in an artist to do the UI. And a sound designer. And a level designer. And ...
You also have a point about using a menu for the abilities rather than giant icons. On one hand this stuff needs to look better, but on the other hand I'd rather leave it up to whoever does the GUI art.
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7be247 No.18388
>>18383
Hey, that reminds me. Do you have someone making music for you yet? Someone asked me if I wanted music for my game; it was good (mainly synthwave, might be a good match for a spy hacker sim game), but I already had music so I was going to refer him if I knew someone who needed music.
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7be247 No.18653
>>18388
Actually a musician is the one thing I DO have. Although I may have frightened them off when I sperged out over how much I liked what they'd made so far. Synthwave does seem like it'd be a good fit too, but the musician I have is currently going in a chiptune direction and it blowing it out of the water, so I don't want to mess with success
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7be247 No.19517
Made some progress, now web store merchants wait until they receive a payment with the correct amount/order number before they send you the product. Its a small thing, but it lets gameplay start to happen. For example browsing the Microsoft app store for free utilities, and then going over to the dark side to buy exploits and stolen credentials.
Also I participated in demo day 3 on halfchan's agdg, got like 50 views which was cool, not much feedback or comments though. I'm also trying to get /cyber/ to ideaguy for me but theres not much interest (/blogpost)
A musicbro made some awesome tracks for it, but I haven't implemented a proper music controller yet, its just a functional dropdown.
Most things are still missing, but theres a minigame for craking the wifi at Starbucks which I think is simple but fun. The console side of the game is probably unplayable for now until I get a proper tutorial made.
http://vestigial.itch.io/spy-sim
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7be247 No.19519
>>18383
what GUI library are you using
also
>buying software
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7be247 No.19524
>>19519
>what GUI library are you using
DFGUI, Daikon Forge GUI
It has some nice features like a radial menu, tweens, and a scrollable panel, and some nice reflection utilities. It was about $90, but a few months after I bought it they made it open source. A lot of people were extremely butt rustled about it but I figured its a solid product that works. Plus I like supporting bedroom programmers, which Daikon Forge seemed like.
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7be247 No.19562
This is relevant to my interests. You got a blog or something for this so we can monitor progress?
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7be247 No.19565
Does fullchan have a Recap Monday? With our post speed its more like recap equinox, amirite?
game:spy sim
dev:vestigial
tools:Unity
website:vestigial.itch.io
progress:
>Made bank accounts and a store/ordering system
>Made a proper music player for the tracks from Strawfield on Soundcloud
>failed to recruit ideaguys on /cyber/
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7be247 No.19593
>>19562
8chan probably has the most consolidated view, theres a blog at vestigialdev.tumblr.com but theres not much there. Any progress I post usually also gets posted here.
What aspect of it are you interested in more? The hacking sim side or the setting?
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7be247 No.20113
Making progress on coming up with the first scenario, after feeling bummed for a few weeks after demo day 3.
The storyline is theres a female game developer who is getting harassing comments on their blog. They ask the player to find out who is behind it and get them to stop if possible.
So hopefully the players first instinct will be to examine the logs of the gamedevs webserver. However, they didn't install it right, and the webserver has no config file, so it defaults to very minimal logging, not even recording the IP of who accesses which files. This can be found out by reading the startup log of the webserver. The next step is to upload a config file, somehow received by the player, then restart the webserver. The player can either restart the webserver machine, or kill the webserver process and start it manually. Now when it starts, it sees the config.conf file, and sets up appropriate logging. Now the next time a harassing comment is posted, the persons IP is captured. Using some kind of reverse lookup, the player will resolve the IP to a public wifi spot, and put surveillance on it to see who enters/leaves around the time the comments are usually posted.
The offending NPC thats doing it always does it on their way home from work each day, so they stop at Starbucks and order a coffee and use their wifi to post the comment. So the player can either notice them show up around the right time (via the surveillance) and send an agent to Talk to them, and go through a dialogue tree. Or the player can get into the starbucks system and examine the credit card receipts to find out the persons name. Or the player can follow the suspect home, wait until they're gone, and search their house. This will generate some kind of incriminating item you can use against them during the dialogue tree. I suppose if you can't convince them to stop their harassment, you can kill them by hacking the brakes on their car so they crash.
Thats a pretty short mission, and I'm worried that even though there are multiple paths to finding out who they are (maybe the comments were signed with a pseudonym you could track separately), the actions for one specific pathway won't be obvious enough. Maybe instead of uploading a new config.conf the player can send commands like "setLoggingPreference logIP true" to flip it on the fly, or kill the process and restart it with a -logIP flag. Are these "solutions" even remotely realistic for a player to figure out?
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7be247 No.22071
I added a new layer to the game, so now locations aren't just perimeter/exterior/interior, there are areas within each location. So the airport has a ticketing area, baggage area, etc. This gives a little more flexibility for making locations, so while you might not be able to simply walk past the front desk of an office, you might be able to get in the back if you have a key or successfully execute the lockpicking minigame. This video has some old dialogue, in the updated version the only way you can get past the TSA checkpoint is to have a valid boarding pass, which unlocks a new dialogue choice.
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7be247 No.22147
Faking up SQL went pretty well, you can add tables, add/drop columns, insert/update/delete records, and select based on a columns value.
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7be247 No.22327
Mission contracts are kinda there, you can accept missions and complete them. Really need to work on some other digital communication types other than email. Uplink had a cool live chat with whoever you were doing a contact for, so I at least need to have that much, since missions should be capable of branching based on your responses, but so far emails in my game are one way as far as the player is concerned. A nice chat window would give more of a sense of 'live' ness to the game I think
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7be247 No.22455
>>22327
Looks cool, quite promising.
Gotta say, though, I'm a little baffled as to why you would get (what I presume is) a DOS shell (or WinX shell) when connecting. It displays text at a slow rate (maybe somewhere between 4800 and 9600 baud, from memory? Definitely slower than 14.4, except sometimes it's instant) so it appears to be over an old modem connection. But in that case you'd probably be connecting to Linux, a VAX system, or some sort of telnet interface. I dunno. Been awhile.
I would opt for what most people do with hacking games and have all the OSs without attributable command prompts. So people with some tech knowledge don't have to suspend their disbelief too far.
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7be247 No.22486
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7be247 No.22567
>>22455
Yeah, this post touches on a core issue I've been having with designing the game. I'm a windows scrub, so I dont want to try and mimic /g/-tier stuff because I'll be busted in a second as not knowing what I'm doing, but at the same time "make it more like linux" is the main criticism I hear.
>I would opt for what most people do with hacking games and have all the OSs without attributable command prompts
This is a tough line to walk because I want to reward players that become power users (ex, starting off having to use GUIs but later being able to do stuff on the command line), but at the same time I implemented things in a cargo-cult way without understanding how computers actually connected to eachother for example.
But anyway I added SSH to it, so it should be a little less triggering to the neckbear autist crowd. Connections were some of the first things that got implemented so there was a lot of refactoring to do, and its still missing a feature in that autocomplete doesn't work on the system you're connected to.
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7be247 No.22574
I actually had an idea similar to this not too long ago. Except it was more puzzle-like and had a story. It would have been easy using C++.
Best of luck, OP.
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7be247 No.22595
>>22486
Thanks anon, if you like it the musician is named Stawfield on SoundCloud, they only put one of their tracks up though, there are like four
Some progress, made webpages retrieve data from sql servers.
>>22574
>It would have been easy [...]
kek, famous last words. What was your idea though?
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7be247 No.22670
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7be247 No.22756
>>22071
>>22595
https://clyp.it/ha0ap3la
Did in 5 min I am assuming this is what your music guy was going for. If you want more buy me a prostitute.
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7be247 No.22767
>>22567
>This is a tough line to walk because I want to reward players that become power users (ex, starting off having to use GUIs but later being able to do stuff on the command line), but at the same time I implemented things in a cargo-cult way without understanding how computers actually connected to eachother for example.
I totally agree with all of that -- having a scaling element that eventually lets you get more and more involved, and providing a lot of different ways to get around problems is a great idea.
But if you have C:\> and you're connecting remotely via command line, many people will be triggered hard and will not give your game the chance it seems to deserve (IMO). The issue is, you're just not gonna connect to a remote system and get a DOS command prompt. If you connect to a Windows system remotely, it might be via Remote Desktop (graphical, then). You CAN log in via an SSH connection to a Windows server, but a secured remote desktop is just way more common and useful.
Note that there are a LOT of command prompt types/systems in the world. So if you come up with literally any other text for your prompt, including just using > (strongly recommend, displaying directories like dir1\subdir>) or *> or something like that... people will not be triggered. You might consider changing cd to something like ld ... a combo between *nix's ls and Win's cd. Note that ls and cd work almost identically, and almost everything you're used to doing on a Win cmd prompt works the same as on a Linux-based system. There's nothing you really have to learn. But you NEED to change that command prompt, heh. You don't have to mimic anything else, /g/ or anything, but you can't convince everyone that every system you connect to is running Windows, which is what the prompt implies.
.exe extensions work fine, .txt is pretty standard. Linux files don't need to have a specific extension but it helps. You set an execute flag instead. So an exe can just be named "poopfart" but if it has the executable flag, you can run it. Same with scripts, which are usually marked as .sh (think .bat).
Definitely interested in the game, could be cool. Good luck!
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7be247 No.22768
>>22767
Not OP, but liking what you did with that.
One suggestion would be a less frequent use of the snare. It punctuates too much with its constant syncopation. Overall the beat might be too busy and at the forefront to contrast with the busy melody.
Also might consider some stronger (simple) bass tones, though I'm playing through my monitor so I'm a bad judge. Sounds good though, yeah. Nice one.
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7be247 No.22769
ffs,
>>22768
meant to reply to
>>22756
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7be247 No.22770
>>22767
> You CAN log in via an SSH connection to a Windows server
Not really anywhere can you do that, really. There are packages for it, but nobody uses them. If you're using Windows in production, you put them behind a VPN and a heavy firewall, and if you need actual security, you run your shit in a *nix (usually Linux, unless you need retarded dinosaur programs that require AIX or something).
> You might consider changing cd to something like ld ... a combo between *nix's ls and Win's cd. Note that ls and cd work almost identically
No. Windows cd and POSIX cd work nearly identically, disregarding options. cd means "change directory" in both.
You're thinking Windows dir vs POSIX ls.
There is also that ld is the *nix linker.
One fun option is to embed a liberally licensed POSIX shell with an in-memory virtual filesystem.
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7be247 No.22776
>>22770
Wow, had no idea how I could run that far with that and not realize ... no excuse, wasn't drunk, middle of the day. Heh. Oh well.
ld would still work, at least. Absent the context of a specific operating system, it means nothing other than what you tell it to mean. It's all fantastical. If I were OP I would refrain from referencing any specific protocol or OS (so not referencing SSH, even if you can run a lot of stuff over SSH). At some point it's just not gonna ring true and people are going to be annoyed. Keep in mind that while hacking games might attract people who just like the idea, it will also attract plenty of tech-minded people, too.
>One fun option is to embed a liberally licensed POSIX shell with an in-memory virtual filesystem.
That would be really cool. OP won't do it for this game but it might be something to try.
>Not really anywhere can you do that, really. There are packages for it, but nobody uses them. If you're using Windows in production, you put them behind a VPN and a heavy firewall, and if you need actual security, you run your shit in a *nix (usually Linux, unless you need retarded dinosaur programs that require AIX or something).
Yeah, I modified that sentence after looking it up, surprised that some people actually have set it up. You might run a Win server on your intranet, but it'd be surprising to see anything outward-facing with the MS brand. It's just unlikely.
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7be247 No.22817
>>22670
>mv OP /dev/null
Can't rustle me today, too enthused with progress. Besides, Im a scrub who cannot into linux
>>22756
>https://clyp.it/ha0ap3la
aww yee this is fucking excellent. I want more of what you can do. Please email me.
>>22767
>scaling element
Im happy with this part; depending on the program you can
>1 use a GUI to run commands (babby tier)
>2 run a command on the CLI that asks you step by step for each input it needs (setcredentials... "please enter your account number" .... "please enter the authentication server"...)
>3 run a command with all commands it needs at once, ie setCredentials 12345 auth.bank.com
and I think a nice reward layer will be to give the player the command line versions of programs, so its something they earned, in addition to knowing how to use. Also I think less skilled players might be more tempted to try using commands if its presented as a reward.
I appreciate the feedback about the prompt. I think Ill go with the idea of making it its own brand so it can't technically be wrong. Specifically I'd like to be able to make the prompt more dynamic and context dependent, so if the input is currently being captured by a program waiting for input it'd read
Enter account number >
since I've noticed that switching between looking at the input field and the scroll of text is kind of cumbersome. A lot of messages just blend together and get lost.
About the windows vs linux prevalence, Im not sure right now. I'll need a "special" class of computers that are unhackable, so the player can't jack up systems necessary for missions/NPC behaviour. I might make mission-critical systems Linux, but leave the procedurally generated, unimportant stuff as vulnerable Windows.
The execution flags sounds intuitive, and anon mentioned something about pipes before. I'll probably end up being a linuxfriend after all this. I also heard you can make ramdisks without having to buy special software.
>>22776
>At some point it's just not gonna ring true and people are going to be annoyed
Yeah, this is the fear. I guess the balance will be, functionally the same, up to a point, but named differently.
Some long boring setup in this webm but it actually shows some organic hacking. tl;dr is, changing GET parameters in the browser to access someone elses account.
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7be247 No.23042
Some more progress, a full mission cycle of going to the mission server, accepting a contract, getting an intro email, completing the contract (via a hack, no less) and replying, to complete the mission, and getting paid.
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7be247 No.23898
How about dumpster diving?
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7be247 No.23977
>>23898
>How about dumpster diving?
Sure, I already generate Receipt objects when NPCs make purchases (sometimes) so whenever they come back home I could have them "empty out their pockets". And big companies could periodically dump out user lists, or you could hear that they're upgrading their servers and are going to bin their old hard disks.
- - PROGRESS - -
Progress from the last few days, made a GUIProgram class that can either spawn a front end with shitty programmer graphics, or run from the command line. If you run it from the command line it handholds you through walking through entering which variables it needs, or if you're super elite you can run it all in one go. Also added are environment path variables, so when you boot up your vulnerability scanner will tell the OS to point "scan" to the vulnerability scanner exe.
The vulnscan works with .vul modules, so during the game you can buy (or find) new modules that let you scan for new ways to attack a target. Or if you get really ambitious you can try and hack into the security researchers emails and get access to their vulnerability detection modules that they're developing but aren't ready for distribution yet.
The idea behind the GUI though is to give novice players an easy thing to do, but as they get more advanced (using the command line) they unlock more features. For example using the command line you can specify which vuln you want to scan for, whereas with the front end you might have to wait through 2-3 before you get to the scan you're interested in (no use scanning for brute force susceptibility if the server has no user authentication, for example).
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7be247 No.25364
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7be247 No.25951
>>25364
moar progress, now its a little demo, three puzzles, maybe 10 minutes long.
The first two puzzles are really just "can you follow the instructions" but I think the third one could be kind of fun
https://itch.io/jam/agdg-demo-day-7/rate/57019
Also in news, I bought ad vouchers for 8chan! I 1) really support the idea of what the site represents and 2) think it could give me some good value for feedback/attention. If anyone is interested Ill post some stats. I was only going to buy one ad at first, but you have to buy four at a minimum. I suspect it won't be that great because everyone here probably uses adblock, but we'll see.
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7be247 No.26706
>>23042
>protect my privacy from tsa porno scanners
oh wow, my sides are gone.
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7be247 No.27127
Looks great so far.
You say "spy game". Does that mean the game won't be limited to a scope of pure hacking? Like, for example, being able to leverage "professional" contacts for instances where you need that sweet physical access?
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5a222b No.29155
>>27127
Its changed quite a bit in the last year, its gone more haX0r and less about espionage. As far as physical access, there's no mechanic right now for physical pen testing, actually the mechanic of moving agents around the city was completely removed.
However theres a stronger scripted story presence, where some characters will go to places and do things, but its not really different to the player from a mechanics standpoint, sorry.
Webm related, its got real SQL in it now
And the characters look fucking awesome
If anyone wants keys just let me know, its up on Steam as HACK the FBI, but not into Early Access yet.
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ea7fe9 No.29188
>>29155
you're the anon from /v/ that time ago, aren't you? dude i remember that thread i was so hype for this!
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