/v/ - JACK FROST DIED FOR THIS

>>15792748

Proper tension, for one. It's important to have some moments of rest, but otherwise, your players need to feel in danger even if they're not. Players need to have shit to do in the meanwhile that they're not in danger, like puzzles.

It also depends on what type of SH you're going for, whether more psychological, more action-oriented or whatever.

>>15792748

It needs some kind of loop. Amnesia's developers figured this out the hard way when they made SOMA and figured it was more gamey because it had more kinds of environmental interaction, but many were one-off things the player never did again. This lack of reoccurring gameplay elements (aside from the occasional monster) makes any planning pointless so the player is reduced to wandering from one area to the next to see where the story goes.

Even if you don't particularly like Amnesia, I highly recommend the articles below. Frictional Games distinguishes themselves from their imitators through their willingness to experiment and admit when they've made mistakes.

>http://frictionalgames.blogspot.ca/2017/04/mental-models.html >http://frictionalgames.blogspot.ca/2017/05/story-what-is-it-good-for.html >http://frictionalgames.blogspot.ca/2017/05/the-ssm-framework-of-game-design.html

>http://frictionalgames.blogspot.ca/2017/05/planning-core-reason-why-gameplay-feels.html

>http://frictionalgames.blogspot.ca/2017/06/gaps-of-imagination.html

>http://frictionalgames.blogspot.ca/2017/07/the-illusion-of-analog-world.html

>>15792748

Actual combat and enemies that interact in unique ways. Many walking sims only have a couple "enemy types," which are usually reskins of a basic enemy. The pretentious term is "orthogonally unique," which is just a fancy way of saying your enemies need to differentiate themselves from one another.

>>15793008

Enemies that are not allied to each other could be very interesting, lets say there is a smile enemy that drops from the ceiling and you can force another creature to walk under it the smile could kill it for you

Or have a blind enemy that attacks anything it hears and a moaning zombie that attacks anything it can see and get them to meet

>>15793011

Enemy interaction can certainly add to the feeling of enemy depth and believability, but I'd only account for it if the game needed that kind of interaction.

>>15792748

A few things every good horror game needs to do:

>Combat is perfectly okay, so long as you require resource management.

>Genuinely unsettling and creepy enemies. Use the good old uncanny valley to your advantage here.

>Separate difficulties for action and puzzles.

>Little moments of peace for the player, when they can just chill out for a little while in a hub area or safe room.

>For psychological games, use everything you need to, from insanity, mental illness and hallucinations, to the smallest details changing, like the positioning of items and props, room layouts changing, and so on.

>If you have non-hostile NPCs roaming around, make them strange. Not a little offbeat or weird, but strange. Nonsensical, even.

>>15793011

That's basically what Doom does, so that's an oldie, but definitely a goodie.

>>15793059

if i were to make a horror game i would try to make every NPC likeable, but make it so you can get in very hard situations and you are supposed to sacrifice them to escape or get what you need to progress, you only get the true ending if you manage to keep them all alive

Every one you sacrifice leaves a nasty message for you or appear as a ghost for a few seconds, but not as enemies

>>15793082

You make a good point, but I guess I've been influenced by Pathologic and my own life experiences. What is more terrifying than being around people who are completely and utterly foreign to you, and no matter how much you try, you can't understand them, you can't think like them (and you could never even begin to understand their thought processes), and may even be, at least in our eyes, completely insane? That to me is true terror.

>>15793107

They can be insane AND likable :^)

>>15793107

That sounds like regular life when in the presence of neurotypicals.

>>15792358

Can you teach me, senpai?

>>15792748

Try to come up with things that are both "survival" and "horror" rather than just one of them or separately. I.E. remember that weapons should make sense depending on the context and background you're letting the player character in, so seeing a Magnum in an abandoned innawoods shelter or a police station is plausible, seeing one in an elementary school not so much, UNLESS you give subtle implications via the background or random notes in the area of something coming up that justifies its existence, but not in a real direct way, more of a nuanced thing i.e. going back to the elementary school thing, you could say that such a high caliber weapon was used by someone to kill themselves by leaving the gun nearby a rather massive splatter on the wall behind it with no body in sight.

For the horror part, remember to always imply more than outright tell what's going on, what will be happening one room down the line, what has just happened in a room (vid related) and screw with the player as much as possible i.e. the moment they move from a room to another, there's a sudden loud noise, but going back in the previous room reveals something that changed in a non threatening way. In fact I really suggest you watch the Eternal Darkness sanity effects for inspiration, you can inflict a shitton of misery on the player if you make him think that the horror of the game world is spilling in the real world, i.e. pretending that his controls stopped working when he's about to be hit by a wave of enemies, have the game pretend to crash and upon restoring it the player is greeted by a much more grim or outright disturbing menu title, have some subroutine that randomly boots up the game when he's not playing with a more personal intro screen etc.

>>15793130

What exactly? Modeling, texturing or making the bouncy hair?

>>15793135

>Modeling, texturing or making the bouncy hair?

Yes thank you very much ♥

>>15793263

Shit man, it is not something you learn in a day, how much do you know right now?

>>15793263

Well assuming you are starting from zero, first you need to learn basic modeling

>>15793374

Are those rendered 3d meshes? If they are just make them rotate slowly

I've been trying to make a game with Brightscript. With about 800 objects that do nothing (each with an image), the game slows to a crawl. At least, I think it does, because it might also be an issue with the tv "remote" which has a 300 ms delay sometimes.

>>15793387

No, those are images.

>>15793413

Then you would need to add particles or make them animated icons of some sort, looks like too much work

>>15793364

Yeah I was just wondering what sources you used to start learning your thing

>>15793492

Nice

>>15793121

>Goofy shit in a horror game

Well hell, why not?

>>15793123

>my own life experiences

But yeah, that's basically what it is.

>>15793123

>neurotypicals

are you describing people who aren't mentally retarded?

>>15793576

>80 seconds to fill in a small grid

is that normal for farming sims?

>>15793635

In most, you usually upgrade your tools so you can do shit faster.

>Found an example of how to program a structure process that receives a sequence/combination of player inputs to evaluate whether or not the player can perform/execute a complex action/move to that of a combo in a fighting game

My respect for fighting game devs just rose.

>>15793584

>are you describing people who aren't mentally retarded?

I'm describing people that don't have autism. People that feel comfortable with society in general. Autism as a difference, not a mental disorder.

>>15793707

>Autism as a difference, not a mental disorder

So not actual retardation, just people who aren't normalfags. Stop using kike psychoanalytic tumblr terminology like "neurotypical".

>haven't worked on anything since demo day

feels bad

>>15793717

The words vary but the concept is the same. "Neurotypical" is an antonym to "autistic" which is why I like using it. It makes explicit that there's a difference in cognitive function, not just behavior.

>>15793762

Which game are you doing?

>>15793826

>"Neurotypical" is an antonym to "autistic"

Sure, if you're not from around here.

>>15793820

forgot to post the transform after

FireCharging.transform.position = Vector3.MoveTowards(transform.position, Arm.transform.position, 5);

>>15793838

I've only been lurking for 11 years. Too new for you?

>>15793875

how many years in did you learn the word "neurotypical"?

>>15793679

There's no character to walk. You control petals in a gust of wind (with the PS3's motion controls) and fly around a prairie collecting other petals and restoring nature to dead places. It's a humble game, though pretty comfy. The grass is pretty impressive though. As the game progresses things get more surreal with patches of grass of impossible colors.

>>15793642

>Will neighboring farm field tiles merge in the future?

I will try to make some neat stuff for dirt/stone roads, I might be able to let you use those to fuse unaligned grids. But you won't be able to plant anything on the junctions

>>15793960

"Normalfag" was from the beginning. "Neurotypical" is relatively new. Can't tell which year.

>>15794071

I'm guessing 2007, the year tumblr was created

>>15794092

I once saw a movie about autists who used the term. It definitely predates normalfag. It's not new.

This thread got me thinking about old 4chan. There was no Captcha at first. When Jewt added it, he said it was temporary. Memes weren't yet conceptualized. There were a lot of them, they just weren't called "memes". /pol/ didn't exist. It started as /new/, was deleted, then came back as /pol/.

>>15794092

It was later than that.

>>15794111

Words need to be adopted after they're invented. Their meaning can also change when they're adopted. The word "meme" comes from a book written in 1976 but it wasn't used the way it is now until recently.

>>15794282

>This thread got me thinking about old 4chan.

Those were the days. There was a quaintness to things like noko in email field.

>>15794295

I heard Blue microphones are pretty decent for the price but admittedly I don't know much about audio recording.

>>15793820

Set simulation space to world it's in the ps' settings

>>15794295

>>15792748

Constant sense of danger and alertness >>>>>>> spooky atmosphere

I noticed I actually felt more scared playing non-horror games sometimes than I did playing horror games. You, know those fights where you're low on ammo and all you can do is fucking run while the AI chases you down a bunch of corridors. I feel pressure squeezing on my temples and my chest sinks a little. Because I'm actually helpless and in danger.

That's much scarrier than being in a spooky room with a spooky face looking at you.

>>15794314

doesn't quite fix it, wouldn't the difference between local and world be based on what acts upon it? because it is in fact a gameobject so why does it not follow gameobject rules?

>>15794321

This is quite helpful, thank you friend. I suppose it's worth recording some attempts without going through the trouble of buying a good mic first though. Assess whether I'm actually any good.

I may return.

>>15794598

do it

>>15794598

I await your return.

Instead of working on my game for the last week, I've been hating work and playing with Super Metroid romhacking

>>15794527

The particle system itself still follows the GO conventions.

The particles on the other hand have customized behaviors/settings; which you set in the various modules.

For making the ps GO follow the arm u either need to parent the transform to the arm bone, or set its position every frame to the arm bone's position with a monobehaviour.

>>15794778

To be honest I think the goat loli has a more attractive face than those ones.

>>15795022

thanks that worked

>>15793826

neurotypical is an antonym to neuroatypical, not to autistic. And neuroatypical simply means anyone with any form of mental disorder, which can be autism, depression, retardation, or literally anything else described in the DSM-IV including fucking dyslexia.

As such, just about everyone is neuroatypical, neurotypicals are incredibly rare, and it's a shit term to use.

>>15796058

Oh and btw what script are you using for cloth physics? We also have problems similar to yours in some cloth pieces, i have been solving these by lowering the amount of bones affecting the clothes

>>15793820

I'm assuming when you mention "rigidbodies and such", you mean components, whereas your FireBallChargingObj is a Prefab.

If you want it to "follow" the Arm, you can simply make it a child of the Arm transform, something you can do with SetParent, or better yet, when you instantiate it:

GameObject FireCharging = Instantiate(FireBallChargingObj, Arm.transform);

This will spawn your FireBallChargingObj on the same position and rotation as the arm and automatically set it as Child of the arm, moving it when it also moves.

>>15794361

Thief evokes this feeling very well. >>15796878

Out loud, talk about the problem as if you were explaining it to a child.

>>15796878

I think those things while lying on my bed

Works fine enough

>>15796878

I stop and break down the problem into smaller tasks. I don't even need to break it into every single task (since that's also a problem in it's own), only thing I need is to come up with a small task I can do now that helps to solve the bigger problem, and then I do that.

If you overthink things, you won't even begin solving them. But if you take one step at a time, you'll eventually do the whole thing.

Learned that by playing Elona, where at any time there's a lot of different things to do. Tending your farm, butchering your livestock for meat, completing errands for PP, dungeon delving, training skills, cooking food for you and your party, paying taxes, completing quests, crafting equipment, etc.

At one point, the game stopped being fun when I was trying to come up with the right order of doing all this in the most efficient way possible.

Once I said "fuck it, let's practice Fishing today" and stuck to small goals like that, switching them around when I think I'm done for now, the game became a lot of fun again.

You can also get the same lesson from Rune Factory or Harvest Moon. The days are limited in how much time you have to do anything, so there's a tendency at first to rush things around to do the most you can in a single day, making for a very stressfull experience in what's actually supposed to be top comfy.

You eventually learn to manage your farm so the tasks you have to complete are done in 2-3 hours and then you set a goal for the rest of the day that you'll stick with, like gathering wood or buying and planting a new batch of seeds or exploring a dungeon.

Once you start worrying so much about making every second usefull, the game becomes really, really comfy.

>>15796878

I start thinking about complicated shit the moment I lie down to sleep. It's like some unused part of my mind wakes up when I get ready to sleep.

>>15796981

That's pretty good advice. I suffer pretty bad from what you explained. Playing Elona just became overwhelming at some point and I just didn't want to bother anymore.

>>15797060

I see you never actually worked for these kinds of projects

It's not meant to be fun, it's meant to waste tax payer money

Just do whatever the fuck fits all criteria, regardless of quality, and everyone is happy with it

>>15797067

I think it would be physically impossible to have:

>a game that full fills the criteria in an interesting way

>for it to be playable in browser

>and for it to be completed in the span of 4 months

Even an experienced professional development team would have trouble coming up and delivering a finished product considering these restrictions

>>15797084

Just use phaser, godot, unity, love2d or something else that supports web compilation.

>>15797095

Is Unity still discontinuing web support?

I remember them saying they didn't want to use it anymore and it was going to be removed eventually

>>15797084

Being finished wasnt one of the requirements.

It could have zero gameplay but if you put something about climate change or diversity in there nobody will care that its not a game.

>>15797060

>>15797084

You're actually wrong. Unity lets you export things in a format that lets you play your game directly from a browser, so that's the best tool you can use to get the best result out of this and handles a lot of the work you'd have to do anyway.

Failing that, you can always go for the standard browser games that are merely reading data from a spreadsheet and telling you your sitatuion based on it, every location simply being a different kind of page. Kingdom of Loathing is a good example.

>>15797067

But this Anon is correct. What's happening is that the museum got a truckload of cash to develop "culture" and specifically about videogames, so they put out an activity like this in order to entice someone to show up.

The theory behind this is that you have the state (or whoever gave out all the cash) supporting the arts and a new media, the museum gets to showcase it afterwards and keeps some of the funds and the artist gets paid.

In reality, the state gets to pretend it's investing in culture no matter how terrible and irrelevant the final result is, the museumm will easily pocket 50k from this and whoever shows up will pump out some crappy "game" and leech off 10k easy.

>>15797104

I think it's still active, but Godot would probably be a better option.

>>15797084

>in an interesting way

They didn't say it had to be interesting :^). To be honest those kind of projects always felt artificial as fuck and hardly capture what they set out to deliver.

What do they even mean by "explores the idea of role playing and character development"? Isn't that just a drawn out way of saying "make a role playing game"?

>>15797114

No, they say it has to be done or at least ready for beta testing

>>15797132

Well they are looking for proposals, then they look through them and only choose one to be developed.

So I'm going to suppose it has to be at least a little bit interesting.

I dunno man I really want to try this out but so far it looks absolutely impossible to do

I'll submit something either way, no harm in that. If I get the money I'll just skip town

>>15796878

I always tell myself "I'll just add this little/incomplicated thing" which i know will only take 5 minutes. Sometimes i do stop again afterwards, but most of i keep going adding more small things and before i realized it i spend 8 hours working on it and all the small incomplicated things turned into a bigger complicated thing. Starting is always the hardest, so make sure you start off the easiest and incomplicated way possible and more often then not you will keep going after passing the hurdle of starting.

>>15797152

Just do a double-layered RPG.

You play as a character that roleplays a role in a group.

Then have the story be about the differences between the character and what he roleplays as.

Simple idea here:

MC is a kid in school. You can pick different atributes that change how good he is at different activities like sports, each class, socializing, etc.

Every other character is also a student in that school that have their own atributes and stories.

Every character, MC included, plays an MMO whenever they go back home and you can find the students there to play with, but it's not immidiatly obvious who each one has.

You can find out that the big bully that harasses everyone plays a rogue because he doesn't trust anyone and that's why he bullies everyone else.

The quiet silent girl plays a magician and is actually really good, she just doesn't have anything to talk about IRL with anyone else.

An introvert kid is actually the leader of a guild and he has a commanding presence online but falls under pressure IRL.

You can make a decent sales pitch just out of this concept, exploring the differences in character when online, where you roleplay a roleplayer.

You can make the stories modular so you get to know a character both IRL and Online and you need to progress in both sides to really get to know him\her.

Then you can make this kind of a visual novel, where progressing with a character long enough locks you in their route, where the story centers around him and every other character is a support role.

Afterwards, you can just make story after story and weave previous characters as support for whatever new story you add in.

>>15796878

Taking a page from Jordan Peterson, imagine you actually worked diligently and picture where you'd be in 4 years. That'll give you a nice picture to push towards. Then imagine where you'd be in 4 years if you gave in to all your worst aspects and apathy. That'll give you something to pull away from. The idea is to motivate you positively towards your goal and terrify you away from your personal hell.

>>15797060

Speaking from experience, >>15797067 is right. This year I made an android game app for kids to be played on tablets at a local aquarium. Made it in flash actionscript 3 exported to adobe air for android (doesn't get shittier than that). Expectations are low for these things. It's government money.

>>15797060

Just copy some other game idea, make it in something like, dunno, Flash, put some negress in it and ride into the sunset 10k dollars richer.

>>15796058

>Shinobu can now kill you with a cattail

Hell yes.

>>15797060

Just make a flash version of Myst that uses the museam and its exhibits as the clues/puzzles. Throw in some "characters," and there you go.

>>15797401

What kind of game are you making anon?

>>15797450

It's a space game. The basic setup I have in mind is that you have to re-balance the ecosystem of several planets in a galaxy besieged by a hostile alien life form. There'll be shooting, parkour, grappling hook, and unusual gravity mechanics.

>>15797463

Sounds fun, but quite ambitious

>>15793584

>>neurotypicals

>are you describing people who aren't mentally retarded?

you haven't been on the internet long enough if you think "neurotypicals" aren't mentally retarded.

>>15797909

Point is retards use the word "neurotypical" to refer to anyone who isn't as retarded as them.

>>15798541

ah fuck. That defeats the point of a node gui. Easier to just code at that point.

>>15798541

Never used Unreal but that looks like my nightmares come to life.

>>15798541

I refuse to believe that someone made this for real. This has to be satire.

>>15797084

You're wrong on this one. It is possible. The key is to not approach something like that like a regular game with a regular game development cycle. Yeah, 4 months are going to be a problem there.

Approach it like a gamejam. Scope-wise it should be something that you could realistically finish within a month or less.

4 months aren't enough for even a mid-sized game. But they sure are enough to polish a 1-month game to a mirror shine.

Basically aim for something gamejam-worthy, minus the jankiness, lack of polish and a bit (only a bit) less corner-cutting.

As long as you don't feature creep it up, you should be fine.

One day I'll finish my game ò3ó

>>15797067

>>15797084

>>15797060

Anon, don't feel bad. I participated in a week long "game dev camp" for Unreal Engine 4 one time. Didn't particularly want to go, but my parents thought I'd be interested + I was homeschooled at the time so they wanted me to hang out with some more people

We had to made a game within a week. I made a half-assed "isometric" RPG with Fallout 1 style combat and 2 enemy types.

If I can make that within 6 days, you most certainly can make that project within 4 months as long as you don't try polishing it up too much.

>Spend 1 week on the design phase - don't look back afterwards, your design is written in stone

>Spend 1 week programming your entire game. Your game design has to be simple enough to program within a maximum time span of 1.5 weeks

>literally spend the rest of your time making content and shit

Hell, you could probably make it in 2 months. Don't give up hope, anon. Make those $10,000.

>>15799015

Yup. Didn't really learn anything there that I didn't already know. I kinda felt bad about it, but my parents spent money on it because they thought it might help me, so I didn't want to complain too much.

At best, at least I managed to finish a game for once + I finally learned how to use UE4 because my ADD ass couldn't pay attention to shitty YouTube tutorials explaining the interface.

>>15799048

Not sure what you want from me, anon.

>>15793374

GUI looks very nice. Did you just draw all of the elements and do the event checking yourself?

>>15799048

There's really nothing wrong with learning in general. I don't decry people here for using Blender instead of the industry standard Zbrush/Maya/3DSMax workflows.

90% of my dev time for the past few months has been spent animating. This is ridiculous.

I understand now why AAA abuses mocap as much as they do.

>>15799109

Don`t remind me, i will need to animate my girl`s wings, ears, tails, tentacles, spider legs.etc..

It will be a lot of work.

>>15799071

He means only retards try to learn from youtube. Learn to read.

>>15799332

It would be a top down game, and would be driven by talking to characters and finding items. I haven't decided on the mystery and story. It would have to be something short enough to fit in a small environment like a town or ship, but I'd still like it to feel genuinely mysterious.

>>15799548

I usually find it to be a good starting point for the basics. Most times, video tutorials explain it in more detail than written guides, or are just all around simpler to understand due to being retard-proof. From there, though, simply looking up what you need to do usually works well.

>>15799628

>Most times, video tutorials explain it in more detail than written guides

No they don't.

>simpler to understand due to being retard-proof

They're for retards, written by retards. It's the blind leading the blind.

>>15799652

>No they don't.

They do in my experience. Example, a UI in some program has three hundred fucking buttons. A written guide will tell you to click it. A video guide will tell you which of the twenty sub sections of the twenty drop down menus it is in.

>They're for retards, written by retards

And that's perfect for basics, when you have absolutely no fucking clue of how, where and why to do anything at all.

>>15799760

7/10

>>15800506

What is it missing

>>15800648

Not enough non-white people

>Aethyr dev got a few shekels from our retards

>got thousands of them from redditers

>also got infinite asspats

>hasn't shown up since

hmm

>>15802092

He didn`t post too frequently, i don`t think he is scamming

>>15802092

Anyone have a list of /agdg/fags with shekel-making tools? Aethyr dev did the kikestarter, I know Shinobu-dev has a patreon. Anyone else?

Also, why must I be cursed with a strong enough sense of morals to not nickel and dime Redditors for all they're worth? I'm too fucking nice.

>>15802115

Anon, they like to be parted with their money. It makes them happy.

>>15802115

You're smart. If you take reddit money you become reddit

>>15802115

We do have a patreon, sitting at zero right now, i don`t feel like shilling it since we don`t have enough to show yet

If you think we are evil for wanting to have this be our job and make a living doing what we love then so be it.

>>15802154

Making money is fine - for a finished product.

Charging money either for an unfinished product like Kickstarter, or for just your existence like Patreon, is what I disagree with. Just a personal perspective.

>>15802115

Similar topic, but I'm curious what /agdg/'s thoughts are on things like kickstarters and patreons. I don't have either, and even if I did, I wouldn't be shilling it here, but I'd be lying if I said the thought of trying to earn some shekels for doing what I'd be doing anyways hasn't crossed my mind.

>>15802154

Not evil, just stupid and egotistical. You're like an artist who insists that he be able to make a living playing, even though art and music have always just been something the rich did in their spare time or very occasionally paid a single jackass (our of thousands of desperate jackasses) to do for them. It's the same, and the subject has just changed with time; You want to do a rich man's hobby, and no actual work. More than that, you think people should be so happy to see you do it that they support you with THEIR real work, so you can play hobby.

>>15802212

I think kickstarter and patreon has shown that 95% of all developers need the incentive of making money over their heads or their product will fail.

>>15802221

Which is also a fallacy because have you seen how many kickstarters walk away without giving you jack shit? Or how about Patreon? How much is Yandev making, again?

>>15802230

>Which is also a fallacy

That's not a fallacy. It looks like you agree with him and you're just illiterate.

>>15802212

I think the whole problem comes from lack of transparency, this is why i make a progress report every week, the more silent a dev is the more suspicious it becomes and for a good reason.

>>15792748

A sprinkle of randomness. High randomness is just shit. But if you have enemy placement that is mostly well-tested presets and just a couple spots where a rando can appear (or the other way around: you do a random deletion of one in a group), that's good. Some strange random noises that are super rare, and when they happen, it's fifty-fifty whether it's a random additional enemy or absolutely nothing. Enemy corpses that don't vanish and there's a chance of 1/1000 that they get up again.

Something that is not a problem specific to horror games, but it's extra bad in that genre, is that seeing the same scripted sequences several times really pulls you out of the experience, it shows the strings on the puppets, so to speak. So, for any sort of dialogue, I'd like to have multiple recordings of equivalent, but not exactly identical text, and have very subtly randomized pitch, speed, loudness, random coughs, on top of that, and a little bit of random camera jitter in cut scenes, and a few random eye movements. So it would not feel like a recording.

>>15799105

Thank you. I drew the little corner ornaments, the rest of the interface consists of differently colored rectangles that I generate on the fly. The event system is written from scratch, yes.

>>15802212

Paying to have a game developed is more ethical than paying for one that already exists. If it's done, it doesn't cost anything to distribute because it's digital. Development takes effort, distribution doesn't. It's fine to pay for a physical copy but only to offset the cost of making it.

>>15802404

>paying for something that exists is less ethical than paying for something that will probably never exist

Imagine being on this many levels of libtard.

>>15802154

You're an idiot for quitting your jobs and not having any kind of funding or even marketing because you are so far up your ass thinking your game will make you millions when it comes out. Fact of the matter is that its been a year and you are still a penniless no gameplay indiedev scrub. Another year is gonna fly faster and you wont have any more bux saved up to live off of. Take the "moralfag 8chan aggydagger" stick out of your ass and start patreoning/marketing/gathering a fanbase. Your game is literally your job now and you make $0/hr.

>>15802436

The good news is that being jobless has given him plenty of time to defend his game online and spam us with non-existent progress.

>>15802443

Most annoying part is he believes he has nothing to show yet he has demos and a giant blog post thread on /agdg/. He's willfully ignorant because he is lazy and doesnt want to deal with marketing. Already ate away a year off his life.

>>15802491

It is not enough yet, by the next demoday we might have something.

>>15802443

I have to take some of the time off, my hand hurts after modeling for hours nonstop

>>15802541

Stop making bs excuses.

>>15802212

>trying to earn some shekels for doing what I'd be doing anyways hasn't crossed my mind.

Well, yeah, that's how capitalism works.

Make something people will like, and people will trade you money for the thing you've made.

It can be the same thing with "future development", if people want to help fund you so you can focus full time on development, and see it as a valuable trade; then that's fine too.

The dwarf fortress devs are a good example of this, and yandrefaggot is a bad example of this.

It can obviously be done correctly, and it can be done incorrectly; as one is a trade with a person who loves working on their game, and one is a trade with a developer who is milking their audience (not developing the game, bad programmer, bad person, etc).

>>15802404

I see where you're coming from… though you should frame it better.

In terms of a game that will be released with a price for access, then it makes more sense to pay for a game already finished, because you're paying for future development and you're paying for an already playable product.

If the game will never be released with a price, and is in constant development; then it makes more sense to fund development, and to get a playable product with that.

The latter is more ethical, but the former is acceptable too.

As, anyone with a shred of intelligence doesn't work for free (even open source devs and so on aren't doing it for free, it helps their developer reputation, their ability to find higher paying work, and so on), and furthermore nothing is free in this existence.

>>15802541

Don't pay attention, they're baiting nodevs

>>15802642

>baiting nodevs

Is someone a dev if they go homeless before they release anything? Asking for the farming sim autist.

>>15802404

>it's more ethical to pay for the promise and idea of something than for something that actually exists

I'm convinced that the only people who push this idea have no confidence in their end product. It's like Early Access - you give them the vague taste of something that could be good, and promise that any features one would want to see will be included later. Look at Fallout 76 and realize how many thousands of Redditors legitimately defended the game's Beta because "it's just a beta lol, they'll fix it", despite the beta being less than a month from launch.

No, it's not more ethical to pay for a project in development. There are only two acceptable answers. One, paying for a finished product. You pay for it, you have it. Two, paying to make a product. You pay for a product, they make it for you and you have it. You could vaguely argue that Patreon and Kickstarter are like that, but the difference is that in the real world, if you pay for a product's development and are given shit, you can sue the kikes for every shekel they have. Can't do that with Kickstarter and Patreon, no liability.

>>15802642

>anyone with a shred of intelligence doesn't work for free

To clarify, "working for free" means they're just doing it bcs of emotions (e.x. "I'm such a good person for doing this", etc) without being self-aware of why they're doing it.

That is, without looking at its real value to them, and determining if it's a worthwhile investment.

Basically, being self-aware of the value gained from something is really important.

Obviously, you can guide this with your principles/morales/values, and so on; though again, self-awareness is necessary here.

>>15802649

You do have good points on the necessity of marketing, and having a plan to sustain themselves.

Though, you're wording it poorly, and seem angsty/angry so I'm doubtful you could engage in a meaningful conversion.

Not worth investing my time to engage in a conversion with such a low-tier person, basically.

>>15802759

>Not worth investing my time to engage in a conversion with such a low-tier person, basically.

You must spend a lot of time watching adult cartoons to have a vocabulary like that.

>>15802841

Silent protagonist m8.

>>15802404

It's more ethical in the same sense that giving your money to niggers in africa is more ethical; it causes more harm than than good but makes you feel better about yourself.

>>15802841

Play some text based games, like a visual novel or maybe read a book

>>15802841

Read books with a lot of dialog, watch dialog heavy movies, get out of your house and talk with people. After you read and watch the content, analyze it and try to figure out how the author and screenwriter does what they do.

>>15802412

The conventional business model is obviously not working with how horrible modern studio games are. Crowdfunding is an answer to that. It gives creators freedom to make a good game because they don't have to worry about losing money in the end.

>>15802642

>anyone with a shred of intelligence doesn't work for free

Depends on your definition of "free". Using that logic, altruism can't exist.

>>15802669

>You could vaguely argue that Patreon and Kickstarter are like that, but the difference is that in the real world, if you pay for a product's development and are given shit, you can sue the kikes for every shekel they have.

If you've worked in software, you'd know this is wrong. It's common when outsourcing something to get a product that's intentionally poor. You'd give them detailed instructions on what to make, they don't deliver. They include bugs and when you ask them to fix them, they say that you're asking for additional features and charge you. They come back and say that the project is "too hard" or that they don't know how to do it. Of course, they won't give you a refund. They'll say you're hallucinating about having a feature included that you both agreed on. When you point to the contract, they speak an alternative form of English. They'll refuse phone calls or just close the company and start another one. They're often in foreign countries. Think you can fix it yourself? They'll give you spaghetti so that you depend on them. They'll hold your own source code hostage. You have to pry it out of them and often times you'll never get it, just a binary copy.

How often do you take someone to court? Lawyers are expensive. It's unlikely that what you gain is going to offset any legal fees. People often threaten to sue each other when the feel entitled but they can't really back it up. In the real world, people lose out and have to cut their losses. Not everyone gets what they're entitled to. This goes for every industry. If you do someone's plumbing and they don't pay you, you're screwed. You can't get your money back by force, you'll end up in jail. There's nothing you can do, it's a part of living in this kind of economic system. That's why reviews exist, they'll warn you if you're getting ripped off.

>>15802841

Make all your characters as socially untrained as you are.

>>15802669

The problem is as you described, that selling "potential" and "promise" gets the funder bux rolling in, rather than an effective and well laid our planned project with hard milestones detailing what is to be accomplished on schedule along with scrupulous accounting for every step of the process.

While less hype generating as the current models, I've long thought that a funding platform that worked like this in steps, where projects are rewarded funding incrementally in exchange for hitting incremental development goals.

The one thing crowdfunding doesn't address that private funding does is ownership. If you privately fund a videogame project, no you can't sue if the people you pay fail to deliver, but you have ownership over everything they've produced and possibly the IP itself. Funding the creation of intellectual properties without gaining any percentage of ownership is probably the biggest scam of crowdfunding.

>>15803263

>Using that logic, altruism can't exist.

With that original logic altruism can exist in some capacity.

However, the intelligence and "goodness" for such as act is questionable.

As, intelligence in an act always considers the self, i.e. having self-awareness about the consequences and impacts of such an act, and for a bigger decision it considers a wider context (family, friends, in-group, nation, etc); which are all selfish considerations as those all impact you.

Thus, any intelligent act (self-aware act) is always selfish in some regard; as you consider yourself.

Thus, an act that's absolutely altruistic cannot be intelligent, as it lacks self-awareness.

However, that doesn't mean an act done out of sheer habit, and done through a conformance to one's own subconscious principles can't be good; it just means it's not self-aware/intelligent in this context.

From this logic, an absolutely altruistic act is the only occurrence of true altruism without other motivations, but is also an act that lacks self-awareness.

Such an act is a result of how you've programmed your subconscious, and speaks volumes on the content and quality of your character; at it's deepest levels.

Although, an absolutely altruistic act can be morally good and it can also be morally bad. That depends on the content of your character, and the context of the decision.

For example, this is why charitable acts can be seen as a narcissistic act of self-praise, as people subconsciously want to feel better about themselves, and are not doing it for the right reasons.

The same can be said about virtue signaling, and other such acts; where their real intentions (social manipulation) are masked behind a false sense of altruism.

I clarify here >>15802759 in terms of my definition of free.

As my original post was contradictory if taken for face value (i.e. working for free & "nothing is free").

Also, my thought process in that post isn't applying to a generic context, but in the context of long-term time investments such as software development and game development.

In terms of a long-term time investment like game/software development there are always reasons for why one acts.

Not acknowledging those reasons, and not investigating why you do it; is unintelligent, and can lead to more self-aware people exploiting you.

I.e. a lack of self-awareness for why one acts in a long-term context, is unintelligent.

The reason being, is there's always some utility you're looking to maximize, or some value you get out of it.

In essence, you should look to maximize the value you get out of it, or the utility while doing it.

Or, at least formalize it in your mind, and apply it during your long-term time investment; which will also be reflected in your subconscious acts as stated above.

Project Aeyther's artist is a shitskin who shills on reddit, after receiving his shekels he disappeared forever

>Personally I don't care for any race or culture, I feel that ethnonationalism will fade away with globalism and eventually (several hundered years) we won't be thinking of things in terms of race.

>Genes don't work that simply though, if you want to get rid of "bad genes" you need full scale sterilisation of carriers, and in doing so would probably lose plenty of useful genes along the way. Eugenics doesn't work.

>Well if Europe does devolve into nationalism we can just get another historic reminder of how shitty an ideology it is.

>There are no such thing as white countries, no european country obstructs citizenship on the basis of race.

>There are 19million muslims in Europe, many have lived there for generations. European nations are neither white nor christian nations.

>Culture and Race are not inherently linked. To say so is racist. If a black person is born in England they are just as English as anyone else.

>Your culture doesn't actually run through your blood as magical as that sounds. At the end of the day culture doesn't matter and it is just another thing holding us back from a post racial society.

>There is no reason to have ethnic pride unless you are racist.

>I'm Indian, (go ahead and try to search through my post history), and am strongly against the idea of "cultural appropriation", culture should be shared and eventually homogenised.

<I'm Indian

>It's a shitskin who wants to abolish race

thanks jews

>>15803642

I did make a patreon, but i got shadowbanned on twitter and don`t have any other social media to advertise it on, my Gab and Minds accounts are tiny.

>>15803656

>I'm not going to advertise my game because I don't have an audience

goy, I…

>>15803687

Not what i meant, right now i don`t have any reach, i put my weekly reports on gab and minds, but they are platforms for politics, also my plan to build a community using the faerie demo i put on Steam failed

If you have any suggestions other than reddit I am open.

>>15803656

Make a new account then dumbass. You always start out tiny. Add some autism.

>>15803627

I'm very skeptical of D&C(1) posters who make claims about "[insert x eceleb] as a sekrit Mossad agent" without archives. Even then, it's unreasonable to attack the dev for being cooperative with a team member who opposes your views. Might as well complain about everyone who does game development.

Don't let your imagine run wild to hinder others, use it to improve yourself.

>>15803656

Send your game to youtubers or streamers who are dry on content.

>>15803694

Make condensed videos of your development process like Yandere-dev did

Set aside some money to pay some (((journalists))) to generate attention

Get your game to a playable state, kill someone famous, use the next 20 years of free rent to save money from your now-famous game don't do that

Go put some posters up at colleges or talk to random people

If you're doing nothing, you're guaranteeing your failure

>>15803656

What got you shadowbanned?

>>15803698

Ok i promise right now, i will send the next demo to all youtubers i can find.that are not too cringy

>>15803701

No idea, i have been a good boy!

I was a very active Gamergate shitposter

>>15803699

I would prefer shitting on journos and have them paint me as public enemy #1 than bend to them

>Get your game to a playable state

This is why i want to dev a bit more before shilling it

We are working every day on the game, but most stuff takes more time than we expect at first

>>15803627

This, honestly.

>>15803656

Then that's your fault for being a dummy with your gamedev twitter account. Again with excuses though. Make another account and start from scratch. Nobody starts with any followers. I still have only 23 followers on twitter but it slowly grows. You want advice? Make an account on itch.io and throw your game on it. You'll get decent exposure as a new game for a few days. Do the same on indiedb. Even shill on reddit. If you want your game to grow, you are gonna have to bite the bullet and realize that you will gather people from sites you don't like (like reddit), even if you shill only on sites you like. Make a thread on /r/patreon and /r/gamedev. I don't browse reddit but I've learned that some communities are supremely more cancerous than others. I got called out a pedo on a couple and my thread did kinda poorly. On some others it did very well and I got several new patrons. Just throw yourself out there. Don't wait for "progress".

>>15803642

>We're trying to pull his head out of his ass.

As said in my previous post, I agree with the sentiment, but not how it was stated.

>>15803937

>As said in my previous post, I agree with the sentiment, but not how it was stated.

That makes you a bitch then, bitch.

>>15804000 (checked)

Lmao, nice

>>15792976

not enough anime girls, what are you making?

>>15805087

They paid money to go to a school where they force your artstyle to fit Korean animation guidelines.

>>15805087

As somebody who's learning to draw and struggling just to make basic stickman shit, this hurts me. Literally throwing talent away.

>>15805087

is that the moon over june artist?

>>15805073

>>15805087

If you look carefully

The first image is the improved one

Based on clues found in the text about removing tutorial text, timers etc

God dammit anon get your shit together

>>15805073

>>15805087

Y-you guys do realize that the left one is the better one according to the guy, right?

>UNet deprecated

is there a starting point to networking in C#?

>>15805161

>UNet deprecated

That festering pile of shit was deprecated the moment it came out. Nothing good came of it besides unity jewing virtually everyone gullible enough to think it might be usable.

>>15805233

>who puts their before and after like that?

Retards, I suppose.

>the guy also shills for some LGBTQP game on his twitter for the past year

Not surprised tbh.

>>15805258

You're looking at it from the perspective of a small dev. Try looking at it from the perspective of a big dev/publisher. Thing is, those are potential future competitors. A company that makes < $10.000.000 with their game(s), won't be building their own digital distribution network. They literally can't afford it.

If you're a big player that's handling big franchises, you're not only tempted, but also in the position to, build your own platform (as some are already doing).

What I think Valve did is reduce their income from those devs by 33%, in order to make it less attractive for them to build their own platforms. They reduced the amount of extra profits a competitor could make when switching to their own platform by 10% and made it riskier, because they're now harder to undercut.>who puts their before and after like that?

>>15805155

more incentive to go for quality work rather than spamming submissions or staying small. I'm all for it.

>>15805155

as a soon to be dev with a game on steam i really wish they had competition 30% is far to much,

these new ratios are clearly their to entice AAA companies to stop making their own shitty programs

>>15805371

Nigger why is the final boss a rabbit?

>>15805372

No, it's more incentive to create more bland, mass marketed dogshit. What do you think it is that sells these days? Also, "staying small" is the best possible thing that a developer could do these days, because all AAA titles are these days is bloated budgets and propaganda. The moment anything that isn't a walking sim and leftist propaganda gets big enough to catch the eye of "journalists" there will be a torrent of articles where the harpies screech about how it's x-ist and that it's a terrible game that you shouldn't buy. Why the fuck would you ever want any small or medium sized developer to go big these days? If they start hiring, all they will find are trannies and SJWs looking to subvert their work.

>>15805387

>The moment anything that isn't a walking sim and leftist propaganda gets big enough to catch the eye of "journalists" there will be a torrent of articles where the harpies screech about how it's x-ist and that it's a terrible game that you shouldn't buy.

Yeah, and what happens after that, Anon? One of two things.

You either cave and disappoint your consumer base, create an outrage and become example #738401 of "Get woke, go broke." Or you stand y our ground, create an outrage and get propelled to sales numbers you couldn't even have dreamed of before.

I've paid close attention over the last few years and this held true reliably. The fact of the matter is that the journos and the clique(s) are a minority of unimaginably insufferable faggots. No one likes them. Fuck, with how often they eat their own, it's clear they don't even like each other all that much.

In the past it worked, but nowadays it seems that them crying about a game doesn't hurt its sales any more, than them praising one of their fuckbuddies' ones helps its. It seems they overplayed their hand and now a sufficient number of people don't care about them.

Could you recommend me some 2D graphic libraries for Java?

>>15805371

make it a bone"dragon"

>>15805608

I liked libGDX, but it's a whole vidya framework. I think it uses LWJGL for 2d drawing.

>>15806013

Jews, man.

>>15806028

i don't doubt it but can you elaborate please?

So I'm thinking about dipping my toes in the asset creation pool and I'm looking at learning blender. Is anyone using the 2.8 beta over 2.7? The learning material is a couple years old, so obviously in 2.7, but 2.8 seems to change things in some significant ways and I'm left wondering if I should just dive in with it since I'm new.

>>15806921

Would you rather learn one UI only to learn a new UI later (2.7 before 2.8) or learn using tutorials that don't match up with the UI (2.8 first)?

>>15806921

>blender

all you need to know are the CTRL+ button and SHIFT+button commands

if you want to learn the basics just watch a cup tutorial, anything else like cutting holes can be easily searched too,everything works the same in each version so something in 2.7 or below should work in 2.8

from what i can see in 2.8 the layout and features seem mostly the same with improvements here and there but you would probably need to wait a bit for tutorials on the new features implemented in 2.8

this tutorial will go over all the basics you need to start

>>15806836

If you plan on supporting other types of input controllers/modes (xbox controller, ps controller, kb+mouse, etc) then you're going to want to make input querying more generic.

There's a few approaches you could take, but the basis of it is: make the input function/property generic, or in otherwords the same even if you're using a kb+mouse or if you're using an xbox controller.

If it's a singleplayer game you can have a singleton. If there's multiple characters controller by input then you need to use a component.

So, you could have a property accessed from a singleton, like: hasFireKeyHold = InputSingleton.GetFireKeyHold;

This would query input from the connected controllers (xbox controller, kb/mouse), and would be generic enough to make it easy to expand for different controllers and re-use across different components that need input.

>>15805073

>>15805892

>"a good mechanic doesn't require a tutorial, the player will figure it out"

People parrot this all the time because it's an ideal, but don't understand that ideal's limitations. They most likely watched Egoraptor's video about it and felt smart, and then never bothered to think about it any further. While that video was mostly correct, it doesn't take more complex games like MMOs or RTSs into account. It's possible that you COULD teach all of the mechanics of those genres through intuitive interface and level design, but even if you did, it would take far, far longer than just explaining it.

As he himself acknowledged, the goal is to avoid wasting the player's time and mental energy. If it would take a comparatively exhausting amount of time to teach a mechanic through design, then it makes sense to explain it. Just because teaching through design feels good and is usually the correct answer, it doesn't mean that it always will be. When it isn't the answer, it doesn't mean that the mechanic is bad. It would be more accurate to say "If a mechanic can be more effectively or enjoyably taught through design than dialogue, do it," which would be analogous to cinema's "Show, don't tell." It's a reminder to keep the focus on the primary draw of the medium. It's almost always a good ideal to follow, but if movies were literally never supposed to tell, then none of them would have any dialogue.

I JUST LEARNED THAT IN C# YOU CAN USE REF IN A CONSTRUCTOR

>>15806836

Use events instead.

>public event EventHandler<TEventArgs> MouseDown { get; set; }

>>15806013

Is that egoraptor?

If you let a player retry a battle, should you restore all of their resources, stats, and prior experience? Or make them suffer more for their failure to win on the first try.

>>15809145

No. That guy has a chin.

>>15809698

So does Egoraptor, like 5 of them even.

>>15809785

Egoraptor has neck folds. That guy has an actual chin.

>>15809665

If the player needs to retry, they weren't capable of beating it with those resources the first time. I would restore everything to the state it was before the battle began.

Is it worth to learn to work with Godot?

It seems very confusing.

>>15809883

It's not worth it to me because godot is shit, but it might be worth it to you

>>15809930

Any alternative?

>>15809933

Use whatever engine you want. If you're a beginner, it's not going to make or break whatever it is you're trying to do.

>>15802841

That may work to your advantage, anon. They could all be strangely abstract characters like with Twin Peaks.

>>15810316

Just take some stock sound effects and mix and match them in audacity with some midi files and ambient noise samples

>>15810316

Making sound effects usually just involves layering sound effects to get what you want. Audacity is fine for this.

freesound.org has lots of sounds with varying license option (filter for Creative Commons to get free stuff).

>>15810716

http://wiki.polycount.com/wiki/BaseMesh

>>15802217

you are legitimizing Patreon and don't even know. If the rich faggots wants to pay the jackasses who make Patreons, that's exactly what you described art to be

>>15802443

>>15802649

>>15802813

>bitterjelly nodev that can't even make tv apps attempts to give life advice

>>15810316

>>15810742

>Not taking a laptop innawoods and making your own foley effects

Took a little break from my game to work on Super Metroid romhacking. I've been playing around with it for the last week or two and learning a lot. I wrote a C# thing to convert between PC hex addresses and SNES rom banks, as well as being able to poke at whatever bytes I want to.

There's a ton of resources available, and my next little project is a GUI that lets me tweak the game's physics

>>15811335

>If the rich faggots wants to pay the jackasses who make Patreons, that's exactly what you described art to be

I didn't say paying one pathetic bastard was a good thing, but it has been around a while in some form. Now it's just a bunch of middle class retards paying a pathetic bastard to produce whatever he feels like.

>>15811335

holy fuck the issue had died already and you had to start this shit again

>Backed at a buck. Will gladly back at more if there's a switch version I can back in the campaign.

>Hi! Looks awesome, i backed at a dollar and will back more if you commit to switch.

>Just backed $1. Fantastic game, and I’ll immediately up my pledge for the Switch if it becomes available.

>+1 for switch. throwing in a dollar for now in hopes of a console update.

Are people redditers actually pledging a dollar to beg for a switch port?

>>15814188

Yes. If you haven't noticed yet, redditors are suckers. Genuine losers.

>>15814207

>preorder something

>preorder something that doesn't exist

>preorder something that doesn't exist that you won't even own because you didn't pledge enough

>preorder something that doesn't exist that you won't even own because you didn't pledge enough but it's okay because you only use a phone and console and don't have a PC anyway

goddamn

>>15814188

Common redditard behavior

From what I've seen they're generally idealistic to point of naivety.

Also, in the same vein, "a fool and their money will be soon parted" holds true for a lot of em.

they're the faggots who fell for no GOY's sky enmasse, what do u expect?

>>15814353

I don't think there's any guarantee that a client's unique ID is assigned in a incremental order.

https://docs.godotengine.org/en/latest/tutorials/networking/high_level_multiplayer.html#mid-level-abstraction

>The above signals are called on every peer connected to the server (including on the server) when a new peer connects or disconnects. Clients will connect with a unique ID greater than 1, while network peer ID 1 is always the server. Anything below 1 should be handled as invalid. You can retrieve the ID for the local system via SceneTree.get_network_unique_id(). These IDs will be useful mostly for lobby management and should generally be stored as they identify connected peers and thus players. You can also use IDs to send messages only to certain peers.

>>15814353

Dude, prime numbers :^)

>>15814399

Oh, fuck me, no wonder. I misunderstood the sentence that you highlighted when I read through that page myself, partly because of my expectations coming from GameMaker. Thanks, Anon.

>>15806836

>wants avoid poo-in-loo tier coding

You've failed already.

>>15806836

>dyed hair

>comb over

>spiked up

>problem glassses

>handlebar mustache

>side of head shaved

do you think this happened gradually, or he was hit by a commie bus?

>>15815398

If memory serves right, that creature is from San Francisco, so he was probably born into the poz.

>>15816256

you'd very quickly realize that it's not a fun genre and give up

>>15816256

A lot of people don't know how to do it, so they discourage others since it feels large. A lot of mmos were done with small teams back then. If it's your first game though, then you have to

>>15809883

It's pretty simple to use, but I don't like the lack of 3d support for it. In summary, you use scenes to create and control your assets.

I don't use Godot since none of my rigged models properly import. The dev works very hard on it though and I admire him for it.

>>15815398

>>15815421

He's not a game dev, it's just a NSA promo of employees who worked during the Obama administration.

>>15816256

Good luck, this is the last thing I would try my hand at.

If you don't know what you are doing from the get go, the networking and synchronization will be absolute hell.

I bet they knew exactly where they were getting into. Also, take notice how absolute shit the graphics are, I sure hope you are not expecting to make the next AAA MMO, you should probably even go with 2D graphics, not even think about isometric

>>15816527

I think the key would be to make the world player driven. Give them the tools to do almost anything from the content you provide. Think Minecraft, but more structured.

For example imagine every server has an open field north of the starting town. Maybe someone made a druid grove of trees and flowers here. Perhaps a group of fighters made an inn, or maybe its an open quarry on yet another server

>>15816299

I have already accepted that this will probably happen.

>>15816428

>If it's your first game though, then you have to

Then I have to what?

>>15816455

I've done basic multiplayer networking, but I'm sure I'll be in over my head. I'm not expecting to achieve anything close to AAA, of course. If I thought I could do that, I would have used WoW as the example, not RuneScape Classic.

>>15816527

>you should give people a reason you play your MMO over some generic fantasy/sci fi grindfest

A single person making a traditional MMO is a losing strategy, no doubt. The only way I can see it working financially or logistically is if it's a game that facilitates players making their own fun, like VR Chat (which isn't a game, but I digress), or just straight up pandering to YouTubers and streamers.

>>15816579

>Then I have to what?

I fucked up. I meant that you have to start with the basics of networking and game dev.

>>15816256

>>15816579

Consider the way Runescape works. It's technically not real time, rather it's based on a slow tick that causes everything to be synchronized. That probably makes the server code a lot easier since you don't have to worry about adjusting timings or synchronizing players or anything, just send all the things that happened during the tick to every relevant player.

Be careful about muh user generated content meme. It's the same as Minetest, you need to actually give players a good game or you won't get enough players to generate user content. Most of the players will always be players rather than creators, and most creators aren't motivated if there isn't anyone to use their content.

>>15816569

that could actually work

>>15816579

Whatever you do, don't use any ready-made networking tool unless you know 110% how it works under the hood

If you are going to make your own instead of studying ready made solutions:

**My favorite way to handle this is having classes being messages (you one way or another tie the class to a short, usually reflection).

The class will have a serialize and deserialize method, and a sanity check method. Possibly even a process method (that makes the message do the thing it was sent to do, like activate a skill)**

This avoids the insane switch case that some people do, and also keeps everything related to a message in the same place

The sanity check is for shit like this:

The company I once worked for, had a bug in one of it's MMO that let people make infinite troops while getting infinite resources. It happened because most troops would cost 10-1000x resource, so if you order 214748365 troops to be made, the resource cost overflows, you then make that many troops for the cost of negative resources

The sanity check also helps with the fact that faggots can send messages that the client usually couldn't. either with cheat engine or directly sending the message through the router or something like that, so you shouldn't trust the client for sanity checks

>>15816709

I don't get why it didn't spoil properly, but I couldn't care enough to delete and repost.

>>15816750

Wasn't that mocap or something? I know the stunt team that did it. The telltale games are mocapped as well.

However, you're right. What makes animations look lively is how a character acts within their environment. It needs to follow the 12 principles. Frame rate for non-games doesn't matter if it's under 60 (pixar and dreamworks films are 30fps), the timing and acting does.

>>15816797

I think its the same guy who made the RWBY game. The problems from that game carries over to his new one. If these people just read one fucking loomis book, their visuals will improve ten folds in an instant.

>>15816797

>What was the point of spoilering it at all?

good question

it's a strange habit of mine

>>15816873

i think he should keep the animation, it will do good in a way, people will find the animation either bad or funny then end up sharing it around to show the animation off giving free advertising out on social medias

>>15816872

Go back to cuckchannel.

>>15817071

Just ignore it and post progress.

>>15816797

>Isn't that technically true of every online game regardless of how long or short that tick is?

I meant how you can't see even your own actions until the server sends it back to you. The game doesn't have to care whether the server is responding or fix the character's position or anything if there was a discrepancy, because you won't move until the server says you did.

Hey guys,

I’ve been making music for short films / online videos / TV trailers for a few years. I have all of my work online on my SoundCloud. I have just decided to make all of my existing tracks free to use. So go ahead and use them in any projects you want. :)

It could be used for your actual game, or for your trailers / ads.

In terms of licensing, I would prefer not to do Creative Commons at this point, but if you just message me I’d be happy to send you a sync license free of charge.

Here’s my SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/fluxseeds

Most of the tracks should have the Download button enabled. If not, then let me know.

>>15792748

concentrate on what the player actually does in your game

>>15816256

You have to be an EXPERT at databases, to the point where you can and probably are making 6 digits doing only that for a career. They have to be perfectly designed and implemented or bad things will happen, and often. Apart from that once you can manage all the data you have to model all the complex interactions between the data for any of it to be useful. You could look up the source for even text based muds like smaug or MOO or I think even hellMOO lets you look at their code. Even that you'll probably find overwhelming, and large.

>>15816256

Nothing, really.

Making an MMO is just really disrecommended for all the obvious reasons:

>requires skills that most devs don't have, especially for things like security/anticheat

>everyone who wants to play an MMO already is, and they're invested in it (even if only socially)

>MMO's are quite restricted in what kind of gameplay they can offer due to aforementioned anticheat

>people who want to make MMO's are often doing their first gamedev projects, and MMO's are certainly not what you want to do when you're new at gamedev

And as another anon mentioned, the skill and/or money invested could be used to just fund your life instead.

On top of that, the time is not right to enter the MMO market. Classic WoW is gonna be pushed out next year, and Old School Runescape is doing quite well too.

With those two, what place do you hope to claim for yourself? Even if you only want to make a good game, an MMO needs players to work.

>>15818921

>>15818855

Here's an open sources mmo.

https://sourceforge.net/p/planeshift/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/src/

>>15821139

this is your eighth (8th) progress post on this same model

maybe you should think a little bit harder about what counts as progress

>>15818759

This looks like an excellent resource. Thank you.

>>15821246

>This is your 19th post and there was no progress on any of it

I don't feel the need to spam people with meaningless updates

>uhuh look I added the basic requirements zone transitions

>uhuh now you can go back and forth

>uhuh now the data is persistently saved

>uhuh I slightly updated the UI size

>>15821139

Maybe I'm blind but I can barely see the difference between her face and hair because it's so bright.

>>15821444

>(50)

This isn't my job. You might want to start making plans with the local homeless shelter, by the way.

Keep the dream alive you glorious bastards.

Any engine or framework worth a shit that works with JS or python? The godot's arrogance to stick with gdshit and the slave fiasco makes me want to move. Also constantly importing stuff is a pain.

>>15821865

Also it would help if it work with 3D rendering and models.

>>15821929

>>clearly outline why they went with gdscript over python in their docs

And its a retarded reason. There is a whole other set of personal reasons and logical ones why I don't want to pick godot as well, but those are the ones that are off the top of my head.

Why is it obligatory for a farming sim to have a (shitty) combat system? Aside from the hyper-realistic autism simulators. It'd be like if every other stop in Eurotrucks forced you into a barfight.

>>15822052

I'm trying to think of a fun way to fill the time and gather unique resources without any combat. Ideally something more interesting than fishing. Mines usually have monsters to make it more hazardous (and slightly less boring) but that means combat, again.

>>15821246

I've made 0 progress.

>>15821865

You should never want to make a game on python, it's too slow.

>>15822352

There's a thousand issues with python, but in >current year speed isn't one of them.

>>15822362

Speed is always an issue. Hell, I'd hazard to say it's issue number fucking one, because even the most fun game is unplayable if it's choking on its' own dick. It's this type of attitude that lets lazy devs get away with unacceptably poor optimizations.

>>15822372

>Speed is always an issue.

I was obviously talking about the programming language's implementation, not the framerate. A python game running at 60 FPS is better than an assembly game running at 5. They're related, but different concepts.

>>15822033

since the mapfiles are loaded off of the disk and not embedded into the binary blob i think storing pointer offsets in them wouldn't be the best idea, plus i'd still have to load inventory fieds and other NPC parameters from the disk, so ID's seem the least hassle. on a game with less and more 'static' enemies the pointer idea is pretty damn good, but i'm imagining having more chat NPCs and hardcoding them would be a PITA.

the current idea is to make a shitty JRPG clone, thought it would be a nice easy first game(engine) to actually complete instead of just finishing a part of it and getting tired

somehow im still going, been writing it for 4 days with a few parts rewritten twice because i didn't think things through

**wrote a really funky ass tilepicker that you could zoom and it calculates the amount of tiles to show you on each page, but then i loaded actual tiles instead of debug tiles into it and realized that its almost unusable and i should've just taken the easy way out and written it like the map editor, so the tilesheet order remains instead of getting mangled up*

>>15822625

Have you tried Panda3d?

>>15822924

I remember playing toontown just fine on my family's shit PC 14 or 15 years ago

>>15818855

>>15818921

>omg omg don't do it you dumb goys MMOs are for big boy developers only! you'll fail! it's impossible! don't even try, in fact don't even think about it, just forget it!

>>15823019

Can you name an MMO made by a few goys that wasn't complete dogshit, made exclusively for RPing, or runescape classic?

>>15823163

Couldn't you use something classier, like the swasticagdg?

>>15823163

>we editordev now

I know that feel

>Gotta make the farming system

>Oh well, I need a inventory

>Gotta start that UI

>Got a window working, where are the items?

>Gotta start working on that XML parsing and moddable shit

>Gotta make that attribute so that I can tell what classes parse what XML tags

It fucking never ends

>>15824673

>>15824637

Building UI's is one of the worst time sinks. Worst of all is you never know how versatile you'll end up wanting it to be, so there's a real risk of premature over engineering. No wonder distros' UIs have traditionally sucked. Who wants to do a comprehensive one?

>>15818921

>>requires skills that most devs don't have, especially for things like security/anticheat

where can one learn about mmo security/anticheats?

>>15823132

Can you name any MMO that isn't complete dogshit? No, you can't

>>15824922

>where can one learn about mmo security/anticheats?

There is only one thing you have to do.

THE SERVER IS THE ONLY AUTHORITY

If you make sure to NEVER LET THE CLIENT DECIDE ANYTHING, you will never have to worry about cheating. At best, there will be glitches (like the infinite resource/troops here >>15816709), but those are 100% your fault

This of course, make the game VERY lag-averse, limiting the types of MMOs you can comfortably do

>>15824637

>XML

Use JSON nigga, JSON!

>>15824937

What about stuff like auto-miners and other bot-based activity?

>>15824952

That's not strictly cheating

Although I understand why it's something bad

>>15824937

The Runescape method subverts both of those problems. Basically you can't do anything in Runescape, you can only request the server to do something. If the server agrees, it'll then send it back to you which causes that thing to happen. It's also not lag-prone because it's not controlled in realtime; rather than receiving a constant stream of instructions when people move and having to validate whether they're within realistic limits, every movement is a single instruction; "move to X destination". If you're in combat you're probably not sending any instructions at all because combat is automatic.

>>15824952

Even the best MMOs can't counter those properly, so it's best not to even try. Any simple solution can be bypassed so trivially that you'd just be wasting time and computing power.

>>15824952

>>15824973

To expand on the subject

The way to stop auto-miners and bots is to not make a shit game

For instance. I was the autist making the Wurm bot, why? Because the game is a bunch of loading bars for faggots. It's too much of a advantage to not do so. Everyone non-casual would have some sort of automation, even if it was just some autohotkey macros. It got to the point that I would rather make my own fucking game than keep making a more and more elaborate bot

If you want to make such a fucking autism simulator of a game, make automation a part of the game. When you go offline, you can set your bot to do the stuff, officially. Maybe even code the bot in javascript or some other easy language

That way, the only bots and autominers will be those that outperform yours, because you programmed a shit bot

>>15824984

>The Runescape method subverts both of those problems

Not really, it does exactly what I said you should do, but sets every action on a timer, so that EVERYONE have the same 1 second lag, or whatever is the timer in runescape.

it sets the bar so fucking low, that nobody will "suffer" from lag, because everyone have 1000ms latency

>>15824995

>Maybe even code the bot in javascript or some other easy language

By that I mean, let the player code their own bot. Most people would just copy paste some super optimal one, but I am sure some autists would have their own super bots

>>15824952

You can get rid of these with pattern recognition. Auto-miners/farmers are easy to counter, just have a program start "profiling" people who are too long in one area and log their movement. If a movement is repeating vector perfectly you can assume they're botting as no human player can possibly move to or clicks the exact same spot over and over again.

Also Try to look for very linear A* like movement, as bots don't move as spontaneously as humans.

And finally to identify quest-botting with a program there needs to be more than one player using the same bot, start profiling if there is a large amount of players doing the same quests in the same row. If many players are doing the same quests in the same row in the same time with the same movements, it's probably a quest-bot. To make sure, just write a message to a player if your program starts seeing patterns in said player and ask something a bot couldn't possibly answer.

>>15824952

Store input and parse it for bot based activity. Make the gameplay so that it doesn't reward using a bot. Tell tale signs of a bot are that they don't communicate, that they're splinter skilled, and that they don't take breaks. Gameplay things you can do are to have complex interaction with the environment and make resources guarded by high level enemies.

>>15824995

What?

The server has to validate everything anyway or else you'll immediately have people flying at light speed and killing everyone in 5 mile radius. You basically HAVE to do it whether you want to or not. This doesn't have any effect on "lag" though since it happens on server-side. The only thing that affects latency is how much data is being transferred, unless you get to the point where processing the instruction is causing latency, at which point your entire server is going to escalate into a complete freeze.

>it sets the bar so fucking low

We're talking about an indie dev making an MMO. The reason indies don't make MMOs is because nobody can imagine an MMO if it isn't on the scale and complexity of fucking WoW, which is the same reason that all MMOs in the market are exactly like WoW. Stop thinking about WoW, in fact whatever fucking MMO you're thinking of, forget it. The only MMO you're allowed to think about is Realm of The Mad God.

>>15825027

>>15825041

Believing you can detect all bots is like believing you can stop piracy.

Make so that there is no need to bot or making bots part of the game are the only two ways to "stop" bots

>>15824995

>but sets every action on a timer, so that EVERYONE have the same 1 second lag

but considering then the security benefit of having everything done server side was there a better alternative to "deal" with the lag?

>>15825044

Re-read my posts

I agree that making the server the only authority will make the game uncheatable

I state that, things like 'where you aimed a shot', will be more lag averse if done server-side only, which is why some games let the client decide if a shot hit or not and where.

>>15825053

>was there a better alternative to "deal" with the lag?

having 16ms intervals, for instance?

Your argument was that Runescape don't have lag because everyone is on the same timer is a dumb argument, everyone have tons of lag. It's like stating that no senrans have big tits because they all do

>>15825072

I actually don't know where I got the idea that Runescape runs in 1 second intervals. This might be creating a discussion on a wrong premise

>>15825048

Wrong. You can very easily detect the vast majority of bots if you wanted to. I wrote WoW bots myself and i know for a fact most people who write bots want them to be as efficient as possible to make the most profit, which in return makes them stick out like a sore thumb simply by comparing data to real players since bot players are too perfect in everything where human players make a variety of mistakes and irrational decisions. It's just that most developers just don't give a fuck because botters barely make a difference in the game world, they're tolerated as they don't completely break the game like cheaters do so it's not worth the effort to fight them off.

>>15825072

I think I get it, but anyone who's even thinking of having hitscanning or realtime "action" combat in the vein of TERA in their indie MMO is not smart enough to make videogames let alone an MMO.

Also I don't consider it lag in the traditional sense because I see it as the entire game being synchronized, rather than something "lagging" behind.