507029 No.14429518
Polygon: The ESRB’s new warning seems to hide loot boxes in plain sight
https://archive.fo/wVxAg
>Patricia Vance at first sounded a little confused by the pushback. Another reporter on the call Tuesday pointed out to Vance, the president of the Entertainment Software Rating Board, just how expansive the board’s new labeling of in-game purchases really was. Practically anything you see touted at E3 2017, The Game Awards, PlayStation Experience, it’s all carrying some kind of in-app purchase.
>Vance suggested that there are post-release expansions that are not offered for sale from within a game. I know I scratched my head trying to think of one; it sounded like the others on the line were, too. I tried to repeat the question in a different way, pointing out that a current game — South Park: The Fractured But Whole — has chapter extensions and a season pass, literally available from within the game (a bus stop serves as the marketplace for that). None of that was objectionable before loot crates hit the scene last fall. And there are no loot crates in the South Park game.
>Vance stuck to the message. A season pass and DLC offered from within the game gets the in-game purchases label, and the ESRB encourages all parents to set spending controls using tools on the platforms available.
>“The new In-Game Purchases label will be applied to games with in-game offers to purchase digital goods or premiums with real world currency,” the ESRB said in a statement, “including but not limited to bonus levels, skins, surprise items (such as item packs, loot boxes, mystery awards), music, virtual coins and other forms of in-game currency, subscriptions, season passes and upgrades (eg. to disable ads).”
>To me, it has the effect of obscuring, or normalizing (there’s a trendy word) the phenomenon of loot crates. If they’re just another in-game purchase, and gamers have tolerated them for years, what’s the BFD about this one, right? I’m not the only one who feels this way.
>A ‘Missed Opportunity’ to educate consumers
>”I think that’s absolutely the case,” said Rep. Chris Lee of Oahu, Hawaii, the state legislator behind a series of bills being considered by Hawaii’s assembly. They had hearings two weeks ago and the state’s House of Representatives and Senate are now considering each other’s proposals for a full vote in their chambers. “Nearly every major title has some form of in-game purchase. This label hides whether those purchases are a large downloadable piece of content or an endless loot box mechanic. So people have no idea, no way to find out until after they have purchased the game.”
>Lee is right. Go through our Top 10 Games of 2017. All but one (Everything) contain some kind of in-game purchase that conforms to this new labeling standard. No one is accusing Nier: Automata, Persona 5 or The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild of the kind of obnoxious behavior seen in Star Wars: Battlefront 2, or what caused Call of Duty: WWII to alter its rollout of real-money purchases.
>In sports, my area of expertise, the last game I could find that had no in-game transactions was Rory McIlroy PGA Tour, which launched in mid-2015. The Golf Club 2, an unlicensed challenger, has some benign premium DLC to boost a player’s career. NBA Playgrounds, which I didn’t care for but which was at least praised for having, at launch, an old-school progression of unlocking the roster, has some extra characters for sale. Sure, EA Sports Ultimate Team has been around for nine years across now five titles, but MLB The Show, Pro Evolution Soccer and, especially, NBA 2K all have variants. And the “training points” for MLB The Show’s Road to the Show career mode, which I’ve likened to virtual PEDs, predate all of that.
>Lee overreached a bit, in my view, when he invoked FIFA 18 as a game “built around loot box gambling, that continues to be rated for all ages, with zero meaningful disclosure that they contain in-game gambling.” Ultimate Team is contained to a single mode of play, many don’t prefer it, and you can easily get $60 worth of play out of all the other modes it offers.
507029 No.14429522
>But I do respect Lee’s consistency of message, that there’s at least a class of microtransactions that deserve more attention. I still think he and his colleagues face a steep challenge, because it can still be argued they’re seeking to regulate content, and video game publishers won big against that effort in 2011 when the Supreme Court threw out a California law and found video games to be protected works of free expression.
>For its part, the ESRB seems unwilling to call out loot boxes as any kind of special or distinctive transaction. It was pointed out to Vance that the ESRB has content descriptors for gambling (and “simulated gambling”). Not that I expected the ESRB — a creation of the Entertainment Software Association — to regulate them as such. The ESA has been clear since the Battlefront 2 controversy broke that it does not consider loot boxes to be gambling, as Lee and other regulators and lawmakers allege.
>”I’m sure you’re all asking why we did not do something more specific to loot boxes,” Vance said. And, yeah, we were. She pointed to focus-group research that suggested parents weren’t familiar with the concept, and even those who were, weren’t actually informed about what a loot crate involves.
>A more specific warning is needed
>To my mind, that would suggest the necessity of a warning more specific than the ESRB is offering, rather than a blanket label that equates story extension DLC with a spin at the wheel for virtual items. The ESRB’s thrust is clear: Drive the focus toward parental controls that are available on consoles and other systems, which we’ve called a problem already solved. This isn’t surprising, and this approach was suggested to me by others within the industry a couple of weeks ago after the Hawaii legislation was introduced.
>A public service campaign calling attention to the parental support a console provides — and has provided for years — is fine. What’s bothering everyone is this is an industry trend, and the only way that can effectively be regulated is if no one’s buying it. Good luck with that, especially on something as popular as The Lord of the Rings, Star Wars or Call of Duty.
>The ESRB may not be in a position where it can tell publishers what it can and can’t do — its purpose is to describe, not regulate. But it’s supposed to provide meaningful advisories to video game consumers, and this in-game purchases label really isn’t one. The reminder to use sub-accounts and set spending controls — and the fact such controls are available — is useful.
>But the ESRB’s muddled approach seems to be preserving the option of loot crate systems in video games in hopes the popular opposition to them dies off soon.
>”It’s a missed opportunity and perhaps even a step backward for the ESRB and the ESA,” Lee said. “They could have taken meaningful and proactive steps, but this seems to be doubling down on loot boxes and simulated gambling mechanics."
d0f86f No.14429526
058d5d No.14429530
>>14429522
>simulated gambling mechanics
>simulated
>use real money
>don't even win real prizes
I wish the world ended immediately and 99% of humanity was wiped out.
30d2f8 No.14429538
>>14429526
>Loot boxes enhances the games you play
>It's censorship to a developer's creativity if you regulate it!
>Introducing "In-Game Purchases"!
>This includes all types of downloadable content, both loot boxes and expansion packs are the same under this blanket term!
>Better pony up the cash, support your developer to also support the ESRB!
The ESRB is doing jack shit for consumer protection.
919f49 No.14429550
>>14429526
A bunch of accusational stuff towards the ESRB for not taking more action against loot boxes. Which is all fine and dandy, the call on the ESRB's was passive at best and probably finacially supported by publishers at worst. Putting a seperate rating on it doesnt matter. Kids can buy whatever game they want from the comfort of their own home, like hell putting a rating on it is going to change anything.
196865 No.14429554
I wish I wasn't retarded or I'd set up some anonymous tipping service and developer wiki wherein we can just line money directly to the people who actually deserve compensation while fucking pirating everything in the meantime. Seeing all this shit is like watching a dog limp around with a tick the size of it's eyes dangling from its ears.
59c39b No.14429573
The ESRB is bought and paid for by publishers, and this is no change. It's disappointing they aren't even willing to argue there's a difference between actual extra content (I know we shit on Witcher 3 a lot, but they did pretty solid stuff with Blood and Wine), and buying a box or key that has a minuscule chance of getting you something you want.
>put money in to get a golden key
>key unlocks a lootbox
>only 1% chance of getting something decent
>don't get it
>reroll and spend more money
Or
>get it
>reroll anyway because you've been bitten by the "one more go" bug
It's literally gambling. And no matter what you do, the house always wins. Always pirate, folks.
90caf4 No.14429576
>>14429554
But anon, if they deserve your money, there's no need for pirating that game.
e253e5 No.14429582
>>14429554
Just make a site called something like "honest gaming". There, have a table with categories like "has microtransactions", "is pay to win", "has been censored", "is always online", etc. And each game gets a marked at that category. So a person looking to buy a game could just look at the table and see "ok, this game is always online and has microtransactions, I don't wanna play it".
Actually I could make that site, you'd just have to tell me what games have what. Then I'd just add them in (not very interested in new games).
30d2f8 No.14429588
>>14429573
The Chink Commie Government actually did something by forcing devs like Blizzard to be upfront at the chances of getting shit in their lootboxes, but here we don't, it's artistic censorship if we remove lootboxes, if you people don't buy them, they won't know what's inside!
90caf4 No.14429596
>>14429582
>Just make a site called something like "honest gaming"
Isn't it easier to list the games that DON'T have paid DLC, DRM, censorship, etc? In fact, honestgaming.net should simply consist of text deriding the user for thinking such a thing could possibly exist, along with links to popular piracy websites.
b5315a No.14429605
Who has the video of that one gaming representative getting his ass handed to him by those Hawaii politicians?
ebc3ed No.14429617
>>14429538
>ESRB
>for consumer protection
>laughing_ESA.jpg
They have only ever existed to protect corporate interests. They were created to stop government intervention. Hilarious that their staunch defence of of the bottom line, refusing to take action on labelling lootboxes, could be what triggered government intervention after all.
367dfb No.14429621
>>14429538
It's funded and controlled by the corporations it's supposed to regulate, of course it's a joke. They just created it to prevent being regulated by the state
9b258d No.14429626
>>14429538
They do have a point here though:
>”I’m sure you’re all asking why we did not do something more specific to loot boxes,” Vance said. And, yeah, we were. She pointed to focus-group research that suggested parents weren’t familiar with the concept, and even those who were, weren’t actually informed about what a loot crate involves.
Having specific warnings about different types of extra purchases aren't useful if the parents who are supposed to be controlling the spending don't know the differences between them. And if you did know the distinctions between all the different types of dlc/microtransactions then you would likely have already looked into if that shit is in the game before buying it. That isn't a good enough excuse to just have everything fall under a general label like they are doing, but it does show the larger problem of consumer ignorance and the multi-layer shitfest that is the modern game industry. The ESRB is obviously going soft on the issue, but the issue is also much larger than just better labeling can solve.
>>14429573
It's worse than gambling in some ways since you have no chance of coming out ahead. You're always going to lose money, unless you get some type of outside business going that can monetize things. It's just throwing extra money away after already buying a game.
c28082 No.14429632
>>14429573
Feels good to be a yarr harr.
919f49 No.14429633
>>14429596
>>14429582
Even better. Open it up to a rating system. On a scale of best, to optimal, iffy, bad, and fucking appauling. It'd need to be watched incase of bots but it would work wonders. Maybe also like >>14429582 said, spot light games that make compromises or make the smart choice and avoid microtransactions.
367dfb No.14429634
>>14429582
Add DRM, there already is a steam curator for denuvo games.
90caf4 No.14429641
>>14429634
>a steam curator for denuvo games
Textbook definition of the phrase "the inmates are running the asylum."
30d2f8 No.14429647
>>14429617
>>14429621
Everyone who's not an idiot knows that but for some reason like those redditors who bought Nu-Battlefront 2 thought the ESRB would do something, they won't, it's between two buttfucking by a greedy corporations protected by their lobbyist or government regulation that means more power to them and what is acceptable or not by a bunch of boomers or commiefornia cucks who wanted to ban violent videogames.
>>14429626
Those parents who were with the hawaiian politicians argued that this bulshit lootbox scam still prays on the vulnerable regardless of age, and there's little to no regulation because they even pointed out that these same companies are raking in the dough with this type of scams, microtransactions were a majority of where their profits were earned, good job on the research soccer moms.
10a1b3 No.14429655
What? This is a good thing.
YOU SHOULDN'T BE PLAYING OR BUYING AN UNFINISHED GAME TO BEGIN WITH NO GOOD GAME HAS HAD IN APP PURCHASES
6869b0 No.14429684
>>14429626
It's predictable that they are playing the game of willful ignorance. But after every argument I've had with a drone/fanboy/shill about how shit DLC can get with their same response being "It's just a little cash. Who cares, It's just one piece of DLC. It's everywhere so It doesn't matter", I can't be totally mad ESRB for taking the same ignorant stance the masses that eat up the shit use anyway. I'm was glad about the Battlefront 2 reaction but it looks like any idiot who bought that game and wanted government intervention has to lie in the bed they've been making since horse armor.
>>14429633
All the rating systems would be fucked in favor of the Larger companies. Wouldn't work
>>14429655
It's the fact that this doesn't solve the problem (which is ignorant consumers but) and the same people will still be buying stuff with microtransactions without any discern if it is DLC, pre-orders,currency, lootbox, etc.
3e26a2 No.14429696
>>14429655
>producers should be allowed to have vague and contradictory markings on their goods and price tags
e253e5 No.14429757
>>14429754
I made up the marks for DX:MD by the way, I know nothing about the game.
90caf4 No.14429768
>>14429754
Games either have paid DLC or they don't. They either have DRM or they don't. They're either censored or they're not. Making a sliding scale only serves to make excuses for these things.
507b1c No.14429775
So whats the next step? How do we keep raising hell about this?
6869b0 No.14429778
>>14429775
Actually have ESRB recognize the different forms of monetization game companies are using
e253e5 No.14429779
>>14429768
I can make it just a red or green then. But can't games have, for example, only cosmetic microtransactions (so would be yellow) or be pay to win (which would be red) ?
30d2f8 No.14429783
>>14429775
Get people informed with games with lootboxes or any similar gambling mechanics while having the history of the company's use of this bullshit in full display, maybe like a website like what >>14429754 is doing, but need to polish it and the colors to get normalfag retards or parents to recognize it
e53b27 No.14429786
>>14429757
Surprisingly accurate though:
>no content was changed as a result of pressure or pandering
>DENUVO
>they swiftly backed out of the ridiculous pre-order bonuses, the game has some optional DLC that's pretty garbage, but ultimately irrelevant to the core experience
>the game does not allow you to access DLC it cannot confirm with a phone-call home
9f2c87 No.14429788
>>14429754
Like the others said, sliding scale doesn't mean shit. It could be really subjective.
If you want to go about it the easy way, specify what the DRM is (steam, denuvo, unknown), if there are microtransactions, always online(yes/no for both of these) and if it's censored(if yes, then what versions E.G. german version for wolfensteins).
If you want to really do something, specify what's going on with sources and archives. For example
>Censorship
>Yes
>-character's panties were censored (link|Archive)
>-Black Lives Matter enemies cut out on non-japanese versions(Link|Archive)
That said, just making the site is a big step. Good job anon.
5df283 No.14429791
>>14429550
Why the fuck did anybody ever expect the ESRB to do anything? They're not a consumer watchdog group. They're an industry marketing firm which was designed explicitly to create the illusion of self-policing (note: self policing) so as to keep government regulations at bay. If anything the "Mature" content ratings have only ever served to make games more attractive to children, just as the "explicit lyrics" labels on CDs did, while clueless parents completely ignore the warnings as if they never existed.
As such, they won't take action unless the government threatens to step in, and the lengths they will go to to "self-regulate" depends entirely on the breadth of the threat governmental regulation poses.
8a8bdb No.14429792
>>14429538
Self regulation was a mistake.
90caf4 No.14429793
>>14429779
>But can't games have, for example, only be pay to win (so would be yellow) or have [even worse future industry trend] (which would be red) ?
This is what your post sounds like to me. This is what the next generation of gamers will say, and you will be stuck dealing with.
9f2c87 No.14429805
>>14429754
>>14429788
And don't forget the game prices.
There are free games, paid games, subscription games and even the fucking paid then pay the subscription games. People may think of them differently (e.g. accepting microtransactions in free games, instantly rejecting a game for having a subscription despite the initial 60 dollar cost).
Actual price is not necessarily needed, just a "paid or not" should suffice.
507b1c No.14429834
>>14429754
>>14429783
Color coding is too subjective, it should be categorically analyzed My proposal
Censorship Criteria:
>Version Differences
>>Changed in X Local
>>>Altered Text
>>>>Type of text including things like Drug References, Sexual Content, Characterization and diolouge (all version of fallout 3 had morphine removed for the Austrian release IIRC), religious references, references to death, references to historic events (fallout 3 Japanese version had the fatman changed)
>>>>>Examples with and without spoilers warnings
>>>Removed/Changed Feature
>>>>Example Feature categories: Character Outfit, music (fire temple in OoT for example), character creator, specific characters, weapons/items
>>>>>What was removed and was it replaced with something or flat out cut
30d2f8 No.14429847
>>14429834
Just don't make it too garish, that's good too, might be also good to add in the developer/publishers track record of screwing people.
e253e5 No.14429852
Something like this better?
507b1c No.14429853
>>14429834
>>14429783
>>14429754
Further to argue for specific categories, here is an example of the ESRBs flawed subjectivity. http://archive.is/5Dspr The DOA: Paradise and "Creepy Voyeurism" incident
507b1c No.14429869
>>14429852
No, the point of such a system should be to allow the consumer to make a fair judgment based on facts.
IMO a good format to copy would be the layout of pages on the PC gaming wiki
It has simple tables based on overall categories with a check, X as well as some other things, but also features notes for each check and relevant info later on in the page.
https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Deus_Ex:_Mankind_Divided
9f2c87 No.14429880
>>14429847
I think a separate linked page for developers might work better.
Maybe have a "has the developer fucked up in the past?" yes/no thing might be good.
>>14429852
Better. I think you should keep it simple in there though, have the comments tab be an explanation tab and mostly yes/no things, then have each game have an page where you expand upon the stuff.
For example, pic related as the short version of DeusEx, long version would be like
-Microtransactions
>User can buy augmentations points
>augmentation points can also be earned by progressing in the game (source|Archive)
>Paid skins
>skins are only available on the game store for real money and can't be earned otherwise (source|Archive)
>Paid
>One-time purchase
>8 pounds (current price as of 03/04/18) (source|archive)
9f2c87 No.14429885
>>14429880
Also, sorry for the literal paint editing, didn't feel like opening GIMP just for that.
85e4fd No.14429891
>>14429880
>developer background
I like this idea. Just recently are we remembering how shit Ubisoft now that they're banning "hate speech" on Siege. Anyone who was familiar with Ubishit's MO would have known the signs and not bought the game.
Keep working on that idea, man. It's good and will help break barriers.
30d2f8 No.14429893
>>14429880
Developer background, yeah that will do, add in the difference between developer and publisher fuck-ups.
9b258d No.14429896
>>14429852
Prices vary over time and platform, so I'm not sure that category is very useful. Maybe "Free on release" would be better?
e253e5 No.14429922
>>14429896
Yeah I don't like the category either. I might just bundle the price up with microtransactions. Like put (F2P) in the comments.
Anyway, I want you guys to give me an example game (with true information) so I can put the website up.
919f49 No.14429935
>>14429880
Personally, I'd debate that there is some grey area with paid content being bad or good. So yes or no might fail in maybe a rare case in which a game releases an expansion with sizable updates to their content.
e253e5 No.14429942
>>14429935
Yeah I originally wanted a sliding scale but some anons didn't like it. I still haven't decided. But yes or no might be more suitable for normalfags.
df7928 No.14429949
>>14429626
Simple solution: Label as 'Gambling with real currency' instead of 'Loot boxes'. This argument is entirely semantic and gets blown apart effortlessly.
9f2c87 No.14429950
>>14429935
That's why you have the detailed explanation in the game's page.
Trying to cram shit in there is going to make it hard to understand. It's better to keep it simple with a mostly "yes or no" then explain what you mean by yes.
10a1b3 No.14429954
>>14429779
What about people with red/green color blindness? That's not very inclusive.
>>14429696
>what is the free capitalist market that exists without government intervention
Next you'll tell me that capitalism and communism are two sides of the same coin
919f49 No.14429963
>>14429950
Keep it concise and professional, good.
>>14429954
Maybe make the graphic say pass or fail in side the green or red box.
9f2c87 No.14430018
>>14429963
>Maybe make the graphic say pass or fail in side the green or red box.
He's probably shitposting, but if you want to do it then just put black text inside the colored box. It's better not to occupy much space with needless stuff.
df7928 No.14430021
>>14429852
>>14429880
I did a really quick, lazy edit to show how I think the information could be most easily conveyed. Show people what all the possible options are for each category and highlight the ones that apply to the game.
b5ea3b No.14430046
>>14430021
Hmm. Yeah that's probably better.
So you guys got an example game?
7c2fc4 No.14430062
>>14429942
I think that a grey area for special cases is actually necessary, like DRM, steam has it's own DRM, so every game on steam will be red? and if the game has a GOG version that do away with it? a orange level for those exceptions are a good idea.
Also it would be good if there was a short version of the category comments and a dropdown tab from it with the long and detailed version for people that want to know what is up, like warframe having a gigantic cash shop but you can easily earn cash by selling shit to other players and the fact that the community made items can't be bought by cash and have to be paid directly with real money.
If you do make this database i would join in filling for the games i have played and know enough about it.
d55134 No.14430066
remember when the base gameand expansions costed $60 total
9f2c87 No.14430133
>>14430021
That's good. Better than the color thing since it shows what other options are there.
Only thing I'd say it to put censorship as yes/no, since it's pretty subjective, put a DRM (yes/no/optional) line and a paid(free/paid/subscription/paid and subscription) line.
>>14430062
>steam has it's own DRM, so every game on steam will be red?
Information like this is why I think a game page for each game is needed. Steam is DRM, so yes, you put "yes" on DRM, but then you explain what the DRM is in the detailed game description.
There are various DRMs, besides many games use more than one. I think it'd be better to simplify first, then detail it on the detailed game page.
>and if the game has a GOG version that do away with it?
That's what the "optional" is for.
You can buy a steam or gog version? "Optional".
You can buy a steam or gog version, but all versions have denuvo for some reason? "Yes".
Then you explain what you mean.
000000 No.14430154
Reminder that by allowing the game industry to conflate lootbox regulation with censorship, you're opening the door for the government to censor games in the process of outlawing lootboxes.
49c6ee No.14430156
>The new In-Game Purchases label will be applied to games with in-game offers to purchase digital goods or premiums with real world currency
>real world currency
Hope you're ready for the return of "points" on XBL, PSN, and probably their implementation on Steam as well. That's a giant, gaping loophole everyone will use to avoid the stigma of an extra warning label.
df7928 No.14430158
>>14430133
The DRM line could still cover the big ones, though. Like:
DRM: Steam uPlay Origin Denuvo Other
df7928 No.14430172
>>14430158
Also, a 'None' line.
045959 No.14430177
>>14429754
Excellent start, please continue, this could get huge if done right.
9f2c87 No.14430181
>>14430158
>>14430172
I guess that could work.
How about an "unknown"option, or would it be better to mark it as "other" then have the description explain that it's unknown?
There are some games like, I believe, Okami , whose EULA only talks about "a third party DRM".
49c6ee No.14430190
>>14430154
I've said it before, you shouldn't be inviting the government to regulate games at all. It never stops with just the things you want them to do. Government offices get the minimal funding to accomplish their work, so the only way to get more in their budget is to create more work. The best case for games is that they will "only" waste a shitload of taxpayer money trying to ban things covered by the first amendment, but it's a lose-lose proposition if you're one of those taxpayers, and eventually they will find technicalities and loopholes to use to that end anyway.
9f2c87 No.14430223
>>14419750 just gave me a laugh, so how about a "cracked" line?
Just a simple "Cracked| Yes No " line, maybe with some casual banter in the description like "-Cracked 4 days prior to game release despite denuvo" or "-cracked despite three layers of DRM"?
000000 No.14430227
>>14430190
There needs to be much more emphasis on this side of the discussion. A lot of the people demanding action against lootboxes are Stalinist /r/socialism faggots who will use this to clamp down on games. I've already seen them spewing their "free speech doesn't apply when my feelings are hurt" shit on other sites in reference to lootboxes. Don't let them co-opt this. Lootboxes are not art. There are ways to deal with lootboxes without the government.
08e09d No.14430228
>>14429754
>save locked dlc microtransactions
>only a small issue
Square Enix doesn't get nearly enough credit for their jewery. Say what you will about loot boxes, but at least you keep the shit you get from them.
Mankind Divided is the most jewed up shit there is.
df7928 No.14430236
>>14430181
Better to put it in the description, since some things under 'Other' won't be unknown. It's just that not everything about it is understood, correct?
7eed30 No.14430241
>>14429793
Wow, I didn’t know you could see into the future!
Honestly, you are right to a degree. Persona 5 only had costume DLC and I finished that game without paying a single cent. But then again I have self-control, we’re talking about whales here.
3bd4e3 No.14430271
>>14429518
Please stop using Mr. Belt's visage for shit threads about stupid people.
4f7d94 No.14430281
>>14429573
>Always pirate, folks
Damn straight. At this point it's the only way to fix this system.
>Pirate everything
>Mock those who don't
>Buy only what you truly enjoy after pirating
>Don't even bother with AAA
This industry has bled a little, but obviously not enough. If a game pushes any form of lootboxes, it simply shouldn't sell.
b3ee02 No.14430319
OK, I think this layout will be final unless some anons still have issues with it (of course new categories can always be added). Now I will need an example game so I can actually put the website up. Maybe you >>14430062 can provide one?
629c59 No.14430334
>>14430319
I'd also like if we could see whether the game has been made by known Marxists. If the whole point is to know what games to avoid, then that is also an important factor.
b3ee02 No.14430337
>>14430334
"Previous developer fuckups" can be a category, but you guys will have to provide the descriptions.
f07b4f No.14430360
>>14430281
>buy
why would I want to buy anything? To have these devs cuck out on me later? I don't support that shit, I hope they die in agony.
41a0d9 No.14430389
>>14430360
>Being this jaded and bitter
Who hurt you, Anon?
9f2c87 No.14430402
>>14430319
Looks good, the coloring is shit, but that can be changed later.
Here's what I'd change
>Put a "no" option on always online, so it won't look like it's incomplete. The others have "none" options after all.
>Censorship as a yes/no option, since it's pretty subjective
Also, two other categories I think would be good to add
>Paid: Free | Paid | Subscription | Paid with subscription
Again, people may react differently, depending on the type of payment needed, if at all.
>Previous fuck ups: Developer | Publisher | Individual | none
If there has been any incident with the devs, publishers, or some individual strongly involved in the making of the game.
I'm not good with naming though, so you should probably find a title for both of those, if you'll use them.
>>14430360
Haha, why would you buy anything? Just let normalfags dictate what games get made.
If there's no reason to not support a developer, you like the game and you have money, there's no reason not to support them. In most cases there's a clear red flag that they are going to cuck out later, and in that case there is a reason not to support the dev.
b569ac No.14430413
The obvious solution here, if the ESRB weren't just a puppet of the big publishers, would be to create a second rating for monetization, displayed just as prominently as the content rating. Four levels: no monetization beyond the purchase price (or subscription fee, if it's an MMO–from what I understand that's already required to be on the packaging), purchases of a finite number of specific items, repeatable purchases of consumable items, purchases of a chance at obtaining a random item.
>It was pointed out to Vance that the ESRB has content descriptors for gambling (and “simulated gambling”).
What this ignores is that these are for gambling minigames using in-game currency obtained by playing the game. A game that involves actual gambling, with real money, needs to be distinguished from those. ESRB does that in theory, but if they're not going to apply the "Real Gambling" content label to games with lootbox mechanics there's no point. As far as I can tell from searching their site the "Real Gambling" label has only been used once and means an automatic AO.
f8acf8 No.14430416
>>14429518
Are they trying to memory hole DLC being hated cancer?
This is some serious bullshit.
f8acf8 No.14430422
>>14430416
That's not the image I meant to post and I also failed to get dubs so it's a lose-lose on all sides.
c6d532 No.14430449
>>14430319
Why the fuck is /v/ full on marxists when it comes to the economy of gaming and libertarian nationalists everywhere else? Free market has spoken. The minute you ban gambling (Which is close to being ruled unconstitutional in general with no plans to challenge the Bradley Act) and let the government in, then the government has an in to ban lewds. Let the idiots spend their money on lootboxes.
>"B-B-Buh I don't want lootboxes!"
Tough shit commiefag. Back to /leftypol/
>>14430334
This thread is advocating Marxism and restricting the flow of capitalism. Don't be a retard
6d865d No.14430463
It is even simpler: if it has ANY ESRB seal, it is a scam. Don't buy it.
196865 No.14430466
>>14430402
> Just let normalfags dictate what games get made.
That happens regardless.
f07b4f No.14430475
>>14430402
Yeah, anon. I am sure that if I support a game it will get made with me in mind. Not that inclusiveness garbage all devs do for more sales. Remember Rimworld? Yeah, that turned out very well. How about yandere simulator? Spore? I don't give a shit about some faggot who will cuck himself out the moment he gets a chance. I have better things to spend my money on, though personally I'd prefer to charitably buy MLP figures for autists than buy another game.
b569ac No.14430487
>>14430449
>then the government has an in to ban lewds
Government already has an in to ban lewds. You put porn in a video game, and it's subject to all the laws porn normally is. That's how things already work. You put gambling using real money in a video game, it should be subject to all the laws gambling normally is. Right now the trick companies are using to get around this is that you can't get real money back out of lootboxes. This makes it worse, not better.
b3ee02 No.14430506
>>14430402
How about this?
It's your turn now guys. Pick a game, fill the table with information and I will put it up.
fb2894 No.14430510
>>14430487
>arguing with strawman lolberts
he is probably a leftypol faggot himself trying to false flag.
b569ac No.14430512
>>14430506
>>14430319
The MT section needs to distinguish between systems that let you buy the item you want directly and those that make you roll for it with a lootbox.
629c59 No.14430513
>>14430506
Mankind Divided is full of pozz itself, from faggots to "muh religion of peace". Also, ugly niggers instead of cute tomboy pilots.
b3ee02 No.14430515
>>14430512
That can be a category, but I don't know what to call it.
>>14430513
So "lootboxes" as an additional option? Or "Pay to win - direct" and "Pay to win - lootboxes" ?
b3ee02 No.14430517
>>14430515
Reversed the quotes.
629c59 No.14430522
>>14430515
>That can be a category, but I don't know what to call it.
Pushing political agenda? Yes / No.
9f2c87 No.14430525
>>14430466
>>14430475
For now. Even normalfags are getting increasingly tired of the bullshit of current year games.
Remember all the recent flops? That's normalfags not buying games.
>Rimworld
What's wrong with that? I only heard the game was fun a couple years ago, but never looked into it
>yandere sim
Mr. pay me before my game is complete, create a cult of personality around me man? Yeah, totally not a giant redflag.
>Spore
They completely fucked the concept and released a shit game. So? You don't buy it, don't support their shit, simple.
>I don't give a shit about some faggot who will cuck himself out the moment he gets a chance.
Again, in most cases it's obvious the devs are going to cuck.
I bought Factorio early access, but I'm already happy with the current game and Ruiner. I have fun with both. Neither dev seems to be going to cuck in the future and I'm supporting them, showing there's market for that kidn of product.
>>14430506
I missed the microtransction thing, put "none" option in that as well.
Also, get a better name for previous fuckups. Fucking normalfags will completely disregard anything the moment someone uses a bad word.
If no one else picks a game I can look something up.
9f2c87 No.14430553
>>14430515
>So "lootboxes" as an additional option? Or "Pay to win - direct" and "Pay to win - lootboxes" ?
How about
>Pay to win | Cosmetics | Pay to win (lootboxes) | Cosmetics (Lootboxes)
for brevity purposes?
>>14430522
>pushing political agenda
Wasn't it supposed to be a site to get normalfags to stop supporting bad shit then defending it because of consumer bias? If so, I'd recommend against that. All goldberg needs to do is to tell normalfags not to trust that ebil nazee site that pushes for" white power and nazism and holocoaster" and it'll be enough to discredit us. If we're going for a non-politically affiliated purely informational site, it'll hopefully inform some normalfags.
That said, there's no problem with puttintg that stuff in if it's going to be a by us for us type of site, but that seems kind of pointless since most of us search for that kind of stuff before buying anyway.
ab7bdd No.14430556
>>14430506
I can start with a game I like.
Cortex Command
Category: TPS/RTS
Micromanage units and shoot shit. Entire terrain is destructible and features novel engine.
Censorship: None
DRM: Steam/DRM free options available
Microtransactions: None
Online req. No
Payment system: Single pay
Previous fuckups: Developer
Developer released updates once every two years and never updated the engine to be less shitty and unoptimized after ~10 years, added new update recently to shill his new, shittier game.
A game I dislike-
Retail WoW
Category: MMORPG
Censorship: Moderate
Moderators in-game significantly more active than before, lots of changing of character models to be more PC despite lore still being 1980's kitsch
DRM: Other (battle.net)
Microtransactions: Pay to win+cosmetic
Can buy level boosts, experience boosts gained from inviting others to play (and pay), can buy in-game currency via WoW tokens, can buy racial changes allowing for new character abilities if your preferred race isn't meta anymore. Mounts purchasable. Other cosmetics purchasable.
Online requirement: Yes
Payment system: Sub+pay
Previous fuckups: Developer, Publisher, Individual
Can't be fucked to write a dissertation on everything Actiblizz has done over the past decade.
The microtransaction tab needs work. There are degrees of pay to win. EDF 4.1's first mission pack DLC introduces a level that's insanely easy to farm for gear and armor, more so than any other level in the base game. Is this pay to win? I think so, but it's not a heinous as, say, "level 110 boost" or some other bullshit.
Should still be labeled as pay to win, no sugarcoating bullshit, but a slider/ranks would be good.
Online requirements needs a "multiplayer only" tab too. Demon's souls would be in that category.
A "forced updates" option would be good too, since people should be allowed to play previous versions of their games. Cortex Command has a lot of mods that got broken from updates, but the previous versions are still available for download.
0406af No.14430564
>>14430319
That format is going to be a pain in the ass to include any comments of real worth or to expand if things like new DRMs become popular. The information also may not be clear enough on its own and you'll end up with different subjective opinions. Instead it would be clearer to only have the field value, a description of what that field means which is consistent across games and then an optional source/comment field. Like pic related.
de0db1 No.14430568
>>14430422
Dubs agree with that sentiment.
f07b4f No.14430591
>>14430525
It wasn't obvious Chris Avellone was going to be an SJW too and yet here we are.
9f2c87 No.14430627
>>14430556
>In-game censorship
I hadn't thought about that. How about this for censorship
>Censorship: content | chat | none
Content would be censored content, either in certain versions or all versions, includes only content that was released on a public build(including alphas and other early releases) and then removed from following versions/other releases, e.g. that one game that literally changed indians to cowboys for the western release.
>Chat
That would be censored chat. Either that the game has a chat that is censored in any way, or you can get banned for saying stuff in either chat or voice chat.
>None
The game has no censorship whatsoever.
>>14430564
That's why I'm shilling my idea of having two pages.
One being a general overview with optional search modes, that only shows the thing.
The other being a detailed page for each game that explains in detail what each thing means for this game in particular, citing sources as well as having an archive because we all know it'll get deleted in due time.
e7832e No.14430628
>>14430506
Maybe
>rename 'previous fuckups' to 'previous practices', for normalfags.
>highlight 'None' along with Steam in the DRM category if the game is also available on GOG
>DLC section
>add a small description at the end for other stuff (ex. unfinished, pre-order exclusives, platform exclusives…)
That should finish it.
9f2c87 No.14430650
>>14430591
Wasn't Divinity good though?
I didn't actually play it, but I heard good things about it.
>>14430628
>>rename 'previous fuckups' to 'previous practices', for normalfags.
This.
>>DLC section
How about this
DLC: Expansion | cut content | cosmetics | Entities | other | none
Expansion being a good sized DLC that can be called an expansion.
Cut content being content that was obviously meant to be in the game, including day ones.
Cosmetics being purely cosmetic DLCs.
Entities being a temporary name for general new items/NPCs because I'm bad at naming stuff.
And other being DLCs that don't fit into any of these for brevity purposes.
>>add a small description at the end for other stuff (ex. unfinished, pre-order exclusives, platform exclusives…)
How about a
Game status: Early access | platform exclusive | timed exclusive | unfinished | other
Pre order stuff goes into DLC description .
Most of these being self explanatory and unfinished being blantantly unfinished stuff, as in the dev literally promised something and didn't put it in the game/sold it as DLC, the first example that came to mind being Numan's Sky's multiplayer feature.
196865 No.14430683
>>14430556
I can't agree with giving WoW only a moderate rating on the censorship scale. They can and will ban you from all their games even if enough people flag you and you're shit out of luck unless you're some famous streamer.
b0842f No.14430695
>>14430389
>who hurt you
Fuck you reddit normalfaggot piece of shit.
64c078 No.14430733
>>14430506
Just popping in to remind you, not that you'll listen, that localizing a game (usually by softening the overt sexuality of characters) with the intent to sell more copies (to people who are frightened of the bare female form) is not censorship and that every single time you call it censorship you soften the term. Soon it'l be so meaningless no one at all will care when you use it. I know I certainly don't think of anything at all when I see you folk using the term, except to remind you that you are wrong. Perhaps this is the goal.
(USER WAS "LOCALIZED" FOR THIS POST) 9f2c87 No.14430760
>>14430733
>The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.
Source: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/censorship
That is literally censorship. You are censoring the clothing of a certain character because you deem it to obscene for the audience of a certain country.
Besides, most times it is an useless effort. People who are offended by the content of the game usually won't even buy the game after it caves into their demands, it'll only alienate the actual userbase and make them not buy future games. Normalfags will still buy anything, however, unlike the actual userbase, they'll stop buying the game, regardless of content, once it stops being the new fad.
64d66d No.14430762
>>14430733
>localizing a game…by softening the overt sexuality of characters… is not censorship
How is it not, and if it isn't then what is it, exactly?
0e787a No.14430812
The site is up! https://honestgaming.neocities.org/
Possible changes:
- Additional sections, like DLC or some others.
- Style change.
- Separate page for every game.
Tell me what you think so far. I'm going to sleep and will read the thread tomorrow (or maybe this should get a new one?).
571937 No.14430834
>>14430812
Guess you could make a new thread centered around it, yeah.
6c4516 No.14430847
>>14430834
Hope it won't be considered "shilling", heh.
fd29c7 No.14430848
>>14430812
Maybe make a new thread tomorrow when you're fresh, then you can get feedback while you're awake without having to scour through a bunch of unrelated posts later.
b569ac No.14430853
>>14430733
Yes it is. This isn't ambiguous at all. Even if you're the "only government action counts as censorship" sort of retard, granting a monopoly on distribution of a work via copyright (and so preventing the distribution of an intact translated version of the work) is a government action.
e1989f No.14430869
>>14430733
Just popping into this thread to say this, fuck you with a rake, you fucking censorship apologist.
873d69 No.14431013
>>14429518
There should be a warning that when the servers shut down, the game may not be playable. Or just ban multiplayer only games from hard copy.
9f2c87 No.14431031
>>14430812
Nice.
I still have some suggestion, but I agree that it's best to leave it for another day.
When you wake up start a thread explaining the site and linking it.
51d6c2 No.14431040
>>14429538
>The ESRB is doing jack shit for consumer protection.
no surprises here, it's been that way since they were established. It must be the cushiest job on earth though because you don't even have to play the games, developers send you footage iirc for you to judge what sticker to slap on it.
11a7ab No.14431041
ccca5c No.14431056
>>14430733
here i localized your post
571937 No.14431061
>>14431006
Who is this faggot?
51d6c2 No.14431078
>>14431068
>when learning another language something that can take years to be fluent in depending on your study rate seems easier obtained than removing some one from their job for doing their job wrong
571937 No.14431079
>>14431068
He is that fat bastard that makes cringey LOL-thread tier comic strips, right?
196865 No.14431084
>>14430812
>tfw your black bean fueled brainfart of a post actually inspired action
b48b92 No.14431144
>>14429588
>it's artistic censorship
This must be the funniest defense if dodgy corporate actions I've ever seen.
>it's artistic censorship to prevent companies from using lead to fill out food
>it's artistic censorship to prevent companies from using tax havens because not paying taxes is how you truly contribute to your nation
>it's artistic censorship to call Rey a mary sue because you're hurting the feelings of a fictional woman
571937 No.14431152
>>14431144
tbh this kind of sofist scum should get jailed
629c59 No.14431182
>>14431068
I hate liberals and leftists to a degree I didn't think I could hate a group of humans a few years back. I'm basically at a point where I am willing to condone any level of depravity, violence and abuse of rights and freedoms so long as it gets them and their Jewish masters exterminated, and the normalfags beaten and brutalized into compliance.
7611e1 No.14431195
>>14431152
>sofist
It's sophist.
bce4ac No.14431243
for what reason do you link polygon when numerous other outlets who aren't as completely fucked have covered the lootbox jewry and their apologists as well
5df283 No.14431360
>>14430389
So is Vanguard Princess any good? The art style has kind of caught my eye, but I know pretty much nothing about it except for it has a moderately warm reception on Steam.
fae226 No.14431451
>>14430627
May I suggest adding a line on whether or not a game has Dual Audio?
Using Senran Kagura as an example. Not only allows users to change the language spoken by characters, but can also change the subtitles.
50f5ae No.14431464
>>14431360
it's a wonderful little kusoge that's worth playing at least once. don't buy the steam port though, netplay only works with the freeware version.
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vanguard_Princess/Netplay
305ae5 No.14431465
629c59 No.14431490
>>14431484
In any other industry they'd get their ass fired for that kind of unprofessional behavior.
196865 No.14431494
>>14431490
I don't know man. Movies, TV and comics are almost as bad.
5df283 No.14431510
>>14431464
Well, I don't do a lot of online gaming, so Netplay isn't a big deal for me. So long as it has local competitive mode and solid mechanics, I'm down for it.
I'd probably avoid the Steam version anyhow just because Steam.
77fb62 No.14431513
>>14429518
>Loot crates, microtransactions, character skins and expansion packs are all the same!
<Polygon sucking corporate cock by saying that there's no downside to this change
<hurr it's just another in-app purchase!
<hurr what's the difference between lootboxes and expansion packs?!
I don't even know what to say about this. This just makes it more difficult for consumers to discern between titles that have microtransactions and lootboxes and those that have substantive additional content. Yet another example of how modern gaming has gone to shit. What else is new? How much lower can they get?
fae226 No.14431521
>>14431451
>no English audio
Oops. Regardless, I believe there should be a language line added, would help if certain companies like NISA popped up on the fuckups.
e137ee No.14431736
>>14431513
tbh at this point the industry has gotten so scummy that if a game has DLC ready to go at launch (which will get you that tag) it deserves to be shoved into the same boat of "don't buy this fucking game you jackass"
ab7bdd No.14431759
>>14430683
My criteria was more along the lines of content censoring+chat censoring. Overwatch would get severe for cutting content plus banning you for misgendering streamers.
196865 No.14431854
>>14431759
Is banning you for doing the /violin emote after killing a guy being an obnoxious idiot not considered chat censoring?
13f337 No.14431917
>>14431068
>Have you started learning Japanese yet?
Yes, it's fun.
ab7bdd No.14431918
>>14431854
It's chat censoring. Dunno where you're going with this.
I'm under the impression that this website also wants to cover games which have been heavily localized and maybe having two different categories for censorship (content removal and suppression of player agency?) might help.
e8baa1 No.14432038
>>14429768
There is a difference between having $60 of launch DLC and digitally releasing an expansion pack two years into the game's life cycle. There is a difference between using an unlimited CD key and Denuvo. You may disagree, as I am sure there are people who will refuse to seperate them into different categories. The average person, however, does not consider them the same.
>>14429754
When you display a list of games (before clicking on one to gather more details) it would be beneficial to have an icon or table entry next to each game to display the rating of the worst score the game qualifies for. People will skim the list and want to see at a glance how bad something is, and this will make it more user friendly to gather base information quickly.
>>14429852
Removing the severity of each category makes the information useless.
b52d0a No.14432043
>>14431079
Are you talking about Dobson, Ronnie or every male cartoonist ever?
df7928 No.14432165
>>14432043
You watch your mouth about Bill Watterson and Dilbert guy.
ab5562 No.14432428
>>14430733
>(USER WAS "LOCALIZED" FOR THIS POST)
0342a9 No.14432520
>>14430733
It's moments like this that make me love our mods.
>>14431006
And moments like this that make me want the Western industry to die off entirely
>>14431013
Or just stop making multiplayer at all.
>>14431078
If it was just one single person, that'd be one thing, but there is no such thing as a good (((localization))). You also don't need to be fluent, just good enough to play video games, which isn't that hard.
ec6afb No.14432541
>>14430733
>(USER WAS "LOCALIZED" FOR THIS POST)
Fucking majestic.
b03fb0 No.14432725
>>14432383
There are Scott Adams image macros? Oh baby, I remember reading his blog.
e73281 No.14432820
950cb5 No.14432970
>>14430416
>Are they trying to memory hole DLC being hated cancer?
If Nintendo gets involved, DLC will stay.
6d865d No.14433351
>>14430733
All localization are censorship and they must end.
97689a No.14433904
The best way to combat lootboxes is to appeal to parents by claiming they introduce children to addictive gambling. It has worked in the past.
6bdc1e No.14435493
>>14433904
>use "muh children" argument to our advantage
Good idea.
8bc7a4 No.14435576
>>14429626
>but the issue is also much larger than just better labeling can solve.
Uh, no it's not. Everyone understands the concept of gambling. You and the ESRB are making this much harder (or making parents seem much stupider) than it really is.
3dae2e No.14436973
Are these new labels going to be obnoxiously huge like those labels Nintendo puts on switch games that require internet connections to play? Are games in north America gonna start looking like the shit in Europe (the uk mostly), where basically every box art cover is ruined by like four huge rating labels?