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No.264997 [View All]
It's been a while since we last talked about this game.
>So what's Cyberpunk 2020?
Second edition of the Cyberpunk game line by R. Talsorian Games. They also made Mekton (universal system for mecha games, very flexible but a nightmare to develop a character for) and Teenagers From Outer Space (the first universal system for anime-based games). It is a distilled version of the original, Cyberpunk 2013. Cybergeneration does not exist. Cyberpunk V3 does not exist.
>So how is this different from Shadowrun?
No magic, spirits or Native American bullshit. Cyberpunk 2020 is 100% cyberpunk, 0% bullshit. High tech, low lives. If you want a pure, Gibsonean romp of megacorps, antihero protagonists, distopia, more cyberware than you can shake your cyber-dick at (Mr. Studd Sexual Implant: All night, every night, and she'll never know) and a small drop of Mad Max outside of the megacities, then this is the game for you.
>How does it play?
A simple system of Attribute + Skill + 1d10. D6es are used in some occations, so keep those handy as well. The game is not grid-based, but it does use maps. Players have "roles", rough classes with access to a mix of skills. Some include Solos (the street samurai with the biggest guns), Rockerboys (musicians/political agitators), Techies (grease monkeys), Medias (intrepid reporters), Corporates (the guys working for the Megacorps), Fixers (the guys on the street), Nomads (the aforementioned Mad Max expies) and more. Each have a special ability pertaining to their role: Medias get credibility for their stories, Techies can jury rig things, Corporates get access to corporate resources and so on.
Now, the game is not very balanced as is. Upon character creation you get a fuckton of points to spend, with you being able to max out certain stats with ease without gimping your character in other stats. Reflexes are imperative when wanting to be good in a firefight, Body Type allows you to tank quite a bit of damage, Intelligence flat-out gives you more points to start with and Empathy allows for more cybertech to upgrade yourself with without turning into a Cyberpsycho and losing control of your character. This means that if just one or two members of the party are fully optimized the others have to do so as well, lest the threats are either too lethal or no threat, which is not fun. The game does encourage players to minmax and play dirty and for the game master to do the same.
>What's Decking like?
It's called Netrunning, and it suffers the same problem as Shadowrun does: while the Netrunner does their thing the other players can go sit with their thumbs up their asses waiting until they're done.
>What's the Cyberware like?
Ah yes, the meat and potatoes. The stuff is a mix of the regular cyber limbs and weapons, but also upgrade your senses with a base upgrade and all sorts of plugins, get yourself a cyber-dick (or vagina, the game does not discriminate!), upgrade your bones and muscles get bulletproof skin and a subdermal bulletproof layer, get all sorts of weird upgrades (The kill count tattoo! Keep a number of all your kills to impress your friends and intimidate foes!), use all sorts of interesting bio mods for new/more/different organs or just say fuck it and get yourself a chainsaw arm! And don't forget the plugs for your smartgun!
>What's the setting like?
The main setting is Night City, your tradiitional big Cyberpunk city filled with megacorps and its executives living it up while in the lower parts of the city the scum, lowlives and those trying to make an honest living in a dishonest world. Night City is located in California, not too far south from Monterey.
>Which books should I get?
The core rulebook is a fair start, but your collection is not complete without the Chromebooks: four works with varied content but a similar theme: they contain all sorts of weapons from cheap firearms to missile launchers, fancy shotgun rounds and a custom-made 14mm pistol. But the most important parts are the massive amounts of Cyberware in there: from lighter/heavier versions of existing things to all sorts of new, interesting and mostly deady stuff. Maximum Metal is great if you want to focus on the Nomads and their vehicles, and Night City is the go-to supplement if you want to play in the titular city.
That should be everything. Discuss!
____________________________
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No.422271
>>422269
It's not paranoia if it's a recognizable pattern. CDPR seems to be the only AAA gaming platform that isn't gobbling to cock of pride to appease the tumblrinas who will never play their game anyways.
I don't care if people are LGBTQ+BSOD or whatever. I'm just tired of the pattern of
>Normal people have a hobby
>Outsider group demands access
>Outsider group demands change to accommodate them
>Outsider group takes over and ejects original normal people
>Normal people start new hobby
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No.422272
>>422271
that's fair
>>422269
this guy's a faggot
Im cautiously optimistic about CP
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No.422280
>>264997
Is it true that Cyberpunk predicted CURRENT YEAR politics?
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No.422282
>>422280
Yes, but that is because current year politics is really just a cycle of broad strokes that have been tumbling since the roman empire, and the specific topics at hand have been on the rise since the 1970s.
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No.422307
>>422267
It depends on your point of view.
>niggers, fags, fucking around, anarchistic characters,
That's a given at the very least. I don't care, as long as it doesn't try to paint some particular political opinion or worldview as clearly "good/correct".
>You have a tranny NPC contact and "she" helps you in a few mission
Doesn't seem out of place in the setting at all. No problem.
<You have a tranny NPC contact who's perfect at anything and the game will tell you so multiple times. At one point some white dudebro insults her for being a tranny. You get told that this is wrong and you should feel wrong about.
That's the kind of bullshit I wouldn't want to see.
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No.422308
>>422267
>I want a dystopian game without any dystopian elements present in it.
Is Mike Pondsmith's race a sign of poz? (^:
CDPR unlike literally every other relevant game publisher or developer didn't put up a sodomy pride colored icon on their social media.
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No.422313
>>422308
Mike clearly sits a bit further left than the average for fa/tg/uys but he sure as hell ain't pozzed.
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No.422393
>>422307
That picture, and how the devs reacted to the controversy over it, gives me at least a little reason to hope.
>HERP DERP THIS IS EXPLOITATIVE
<Well no shit, Sherlock. In the cyberpunk future the corporations are going to be exploiting and pandering to LGBTs just like they exploit everyone else
<politely refrains from adding that this is already happening IRL with Pride Month: "We support your lifestyle, NOW BUY OUR OVERPRICED SHIT"
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No.422396
>>422307
>flavour
This takes place in Commiefornia, so why are they using Britbong spelling?
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No.422398
>>422396
Because it's Commiefornia. That shit already flies out here.
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No.422401
>>422393
It's kind of astounding how dumb these people are. What part of "Near future sci-fi Dystopia" do they not get? It's not even like that's such a wild idea considering that Pride month is practically the corporate virtue signalling holiday.
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No.422405
>>422396
90% of English taught in Polen is of the 1984 variety.
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No.422443
>>422401
>>>/cyber/ crossposter here. Neither rabbid /pol/acks nor /leftypol/tards seem to understand cyberpunk is supposed to be about a shitty world. It always have to be about me me me, can't enjoy something if it doesn't serve me to further and/or reinforce my agenda, also don't hurt my fee fees with degeneracy or ancapism or else I will cry you a river.
I wish we could rollback the last 20 years.
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No.422461
>>422443
>cyberpunk is supposed to be about a shitty world
Dingdingding! You've got it.
Also the second reason I hate this genre. Though for some odd reason it still attracts me...
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No.422487
>>422443
>>422461
Cyberpunk isn't about the beautiful golden age, perhaps, but you can't expect people to like something that metaphorically "reeks of shit". You also can't expect people with even a minor amount of meme awareness to accept hostile messaging in something they're trying to process. If you gleefully process poisonous content, you're making a terrible mistake.
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No.422489
>>422280
Well I'm still waiting for Festung Europa 2.0, where rapefugee ships are sunk on sight by auto sub drones...
I mean we still have like a year.
>>422396
Europeans use English.
Not Ebonics.
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No.422496
>>422489
>Europeans use English.
>Not Ebonics.
Not-so-random historical fact: America was the first English-speaking country to codify the spelling of words. This was initially done to eliminate confusion on the census. Before this, in both Britain and America, more complex words could have multiple accepted spellings owing to that no one had decided on a correct one.
In the late 1700s and 1800s, the French language became fashionable among the British nobility. This trickled down to the lower classes, resulting in varied amounts of corruption of the English language and ultimately affecting the final codification of the spelling of words in Britain, including the very French letter U in words where it isn't necessary--an interesting flourish, wouldn't you say?
Additionally, the so-called English accent was nearly non-existent before this French lingual invasion.
tl;dr
Americans (at least the white ones) speak better English than the English.
source: I can't be assed to dig it up right now. History class in college.
And why do brits use an R in ass? Actually pronouncing the entirety of "arse" makes you sound de facto drunk.
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No.422500
>>422496
Also note that the current standardized English used in the UK is only about a decade or two older than The Queen.
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No.422503
>>422487
>but you can't expect people to like something that metaphorically "reeks of shit"
But that's exactlt what grimdark is, and people love grimdark. Cyberpunk just so happens to be grimdark set in real life. Something something entertaining a thought without accepting it, as Aristotle said.
Anyway, Cyberpunk 2020 follows a monkey paw design meta: for every cool thing in the future, there is a terrible unforeseen consequence. Implants? They destroy your mind. Massive VR Interwebz and powerful computers? They are all insecure as shit, and yet try to kill you. Cool weapons? Sure, often made by a megalomaniac PMC corporate duopoly. Advanced as hell plastic surgery that can make you look exactly as you would like? You bet your ass people are going to do dumb shit with that. Cloning brains? Yeah, they clone your brain, then they kill you (this last step is completely optional, according to lore). Space travel? Nah, space travel is just plain old cool; nothing bad about it. In a way, Cyberpunk is not as grimdark as other settings, but people seem to understand other grimdark settings are not for them; they are not forced to like cyberpunk, but since it's the cool thing to do nowadays, they have to try to drag it into their territories.
>If you gleefully process poisonous content, you're making a terrible mistake.
Again, Aristotle. Even then, poisonous content may be made inocuous depending on the context it is presented. Posting screencaps of dumb shit SJW say on Twitter in /pol/ is inocuous due to the way it is presented, since it is assumed to be a negative thing. The same applies to cyberpunk, but it requires slightly more brainpower to judge whether what you are seeing is the bad part of Cyberpunk, or the cool part of Cyberpunk. Since it requires thinking the slightest bit and making judgements instead of accepting them, dumb extremists will of course get triggered instead, and attempt to screech the setting into submission. Problem is cyberpunk bows down to no one.
Cyberpunk: only for men of culture.
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No.422504
>>422461
>>422443
>>422487
>>422503
/lit/fag here.
To further deconstruct the topic in question; the application of -punk to any time period (or in some cases, genres) is, when applied correctly, to amplify your presentation, whatever that may be, with an educated awareness of the human condition and by extension, the human problem. A realist perspective, or a cynical perspective, is generally required for this. What this means is that any properly applied -punk generally leads to the description of what is ultimately a dystopian vision.
In short; well done -punk anything has an aggressively critical tone of the nostalgia that frames whatever forward, or backward, looking perspective we have as a society on our future or our history.
It's the sobering backhand that snaps you out of your Star Trek utopian day dreaming to remind you that statistically everyone is in some way an exploitative self-centered asshole.
In the early, and now largely forgotten, cases of steampunk, for example, there was still an awareness of how dreadful the victorian era was - factory labour was always deadly, poisonous, and the mogul who ran the complex could just as easily shrug off a dead worker turned to mush in the gears of his assembly floor as replace that same guy with an 11 year old child. Healthcare back then was... largely experimental, and gory. And that's before we get to the horror show that was early psychology.
I have some academic articles on the subject somewhere but I can't be arsed to dig up that bibliography. Lost it somewhere.
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No.422508
>>422504
Thought "punk" was to denote scrappy, rebellious protagonists, that are fighting the "status quo", whatever that might be.
And was completely shifted as soon as it started being appended to everything to denote more adherence to aesthetics then anything else. About the time "diesel punk" and "atom punk" took off.
But that's because I tend to avoid the academic articles, as they tend to not be worth the electricity or effort needed to access them and fell back to generic anon discussions on the topic.
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No.422522
>>422508
>Thought "punk" was to denote scrappy, rebellious protagonists, that are fighting the "status quo", whatever that might be.
You are correct, yes. But like anything academic, there are deeper levels beyond that. To use military parlance, you can be correct, or you can be -more- correct.
More correct in this case is the fact that the -punk genre is used as a platform to criticize the status quo of the future (or the past in the case of the steampunk stuff that didn't suck, little of it there is) and by extension criticizing the modern practices which both mirror and herald that worst case scenario of the future defined. Those modern day practices which will permit that dystopian vision to come true. Read between the lines in classic cyberpunk lit and you'll see it.
It draws its roots from the punk movement itself, naturally, which defined itself as an entity of defiance - versus government, versus corporations, versus the nuclear family, the 9-5 job, the white and blue collar worker, and normality, whatever that is. Defining the status quo is the first step of the punk, criticizing it is the second, and third, combating it in whatever manner one can. What you wear. How you act. Who you respect vs who you do not, and why. Its about being part of a counter-culture movement, among other things.
I was never a punk myself - though I admit I fell into the goth crowd for a bit. If you told me I'd be doing what I did today for a job back then I would have laughed you out of the room.
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No.422531
>>422496
The U is necessary you burger.
"Flavour" and "Ichor" final "or" don't have the same pronunciation.
One is a soft "o" the other one is a hard "o".
But hey, the next step is just writing flava, because who gives a damn about dem writy thangs.
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No.422534
>>422531
Except it doesn't. The c in Defence, sure. Since it comes from teh word Fence so Defesne is wrong. But the superfluous u has no use outside of Received Pronunciation which is a scratchbult conlang dialect of England made for the express purpose of making Norhterners feel dumb.
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No.422561
>>422534
>Except it doesn't.
Well let's see what the IPA (us version) says:
fleɪvɚ
aɪkɔɹ
Oh what a surprise. It does.
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No.422562
>>422508
>>422522
Punk has lost all it's meaning, not just in literature but in real life.
As we all know, punks aren't fighting the system and the harder I think about it the more I realize they never were. They were always just a diversion or even worse, the very enforcers of the system they claim to oppose.
So of course cyberpunk or any other "-punk" is going to be just about esthetics because that's all it ever was, it has never really been about rebelling.
If it was about rebelling against the "status quo" it would be called cybernazi, cyberfascist or even cyberbolshevik (as much as I hate them at least the commies tried something different).
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No.422564
>>422561
Rules created to justify retarded decisions don't count, and you know it.
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No.422700
>>422564
That's my point.
The rules made up by uneducated colonists shouldn't matter.
What matters is that there is indeed an actual difference in spoken English (even in American) between words ending in -our and words ending in -or therefore there should be a difference in it's written encoding to ensure proper (AKA as lossless as possible) transmission of the information convey through language, which is what writing is about.
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No.423081
Anyone got a link to a .pdf of Home of the Brave? I'm trying to figure out what the base level of education is for folks in America in Cyberpunk 2020, since I see skills like math and general education implying that if you don't buy them your character is illiterate and can't add numbers. Also the guy who said to ignore Cybergeneration and 3.0 was right, if I wanted to play a supers game I'd use a supers system. What a mess, gives me little hope for Cyberpunk Red.
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No.423093
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No.423120
>>422562
>If it was about rebelling against the "status quo" it would be called cybernazi, cyberfascist or even cyberbolshevik
No -punk is perfectly appropriate, a Teenager's idea of rebelling against the system is just him being a punk at most or joining a gang at the worst. Exactly the kind of image the punk theme gives even if the actual -punk part has changed meaning.
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No.423125
>>423120
>Teenager's idea of rebelling
The point was that punk has never been about rebellion at all, it's always been just an esthetic so complaining that punk has changed its meaning is kind of dumb as it has always been just about superficial looks.
Teenagers don't actually rebel, they just LARP as rebels by dressing a certain way.
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No.423148
>>423125
>The point was that punk has never been about rebellion at all
That's basically my point, -punk is perfectly appropriate because a punk isn't actually a real rebel.
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No.423186
>>423148
>>423125
>>423120
I get a feeling that -punk means that absolutely nobody is a normally dressed and well-established person in the world. I wish they'd go for Blade Runner-esque aesthetic that had its weirdness but also wasn't completely devolved into a nightmare that is CP/Shadowrun.
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No.423213
>>423186
That's vanilla 90s punk, you wanna see what that looks like then play quarantine. Pretty much the entire starting block is a ghetto hellhole.
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No.423243
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No.423244
>>422307
>I don't care, as long as it doesn't try to paint some particular political opinion or worldview as clearly "good/correct".
Which happens like 97% of the time.
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No.423263
>>422700
Except, you know, American English is the living language and British English is a conlang created by drunken snobs in the later 1800s.
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No.423279
>>423243
Don't want to double post so see >>422227
>ignore a warning, a dozen of them.
>thing you were warned about happens right on schedule
>woooow, prophetic.
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No.423285
>>423243
Bit ironic to post the picture of those cucks they're hilarious when not virtue signaling though
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No.423333
>>423285
im not well versed on e-drama who are those fucksticks?
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No.423339
>>423333 nice digits
No drama with them, they play games on a YouTube channel, they can be absolutely hilarious but whenever rarely granted they speak about politics they spew the usual leftist SJW bullshit.
I love them but i wish they'd shut the fuck up at times.
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No.423485
So I don't know if this was answered in any of the books since I only have the core rule book but do some poser gangers in tokyo biosculpt themselves to look like anime characters?
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No.423532
>>423485
Yes, this is covered in the Pacific Rim sourcebook. They also have poser gangs that imitate japanese historical figures like samurai and ninjas, which means you could run into a group of seven samurai all surreptitiously cybered up defending a village from a corp strike team trying to drive the villagers off the land.
Still waiting for someone to drop Home of the Brave.
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No.423873
So in night city whats the likely hood of running into someone whos biosculpted themselves to look like fictional character or famous real person but that someone isnt from an actual posergang?
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No.423880
>>423532
>Still waiting for someone to drop Home of the Brave.
halfchan's /tg/ share thread has every cyberpunk book and even more fan made stuff. Just read the OP's pdf and follow the instructions.
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No.423894
>>423873
Considering the levels of insanity and degeneracy of Night City, I'd say very likely, but still something you don't see everyday. Fuck, even nowadays, depending on how big your city is and where you go, you can see people cosplaying on casual days. Considering biosculpting in the future is both very cheap and common, and that people kind of expect to die two weeks from now (average life expectance in Night City was 40 years old, IIRC), I would rule Naruto runners with implanted headbands to be relatively common.
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No.423951
What do you lads think of the martial arts system?
I'm a martial arts fag and half of the styles they have are either useless or too circumstancial, and the other half are missing bonuses, or have bonuses where they shouldn't, or they just don't make sense.
There are only a few martial arts that will actually teach you how to fight, and then usually only one dimension of fighting (striking, grappling).
>boxing
>muay thai
>savate
>brazillian jiujitsu
>wrestling
>sambo
The rest just teach you fancy moves that are only useful when you already know how to fight (throws, holds, wrist-locks, stylish kicks and strikes).
>aikido
>kung fu
>capoeira
>judo
>tae kwon do
>wing chun
>karate
>tai chi
Some of them are complete meme martial arts, which I'm actually okay with because they're made up, so they can be as effective or as ineffective as your setting warrants (Gun-Fu, Arasaka-Te, Panzerfaust). But the rest should at least reflect how they're actually used, and how useful they are. Ninjutsu shouldn't even be there, or should at least be its own skill entirely, since its focus is on espionage techniques, and close-combat is a last resort. Jeet Kune Do, similarly, shouldn't be there as it's more of a fighting philosophy than a concrete style. People who claim to practice it are more akin to traditional Kung Fu practitioners. Sumo doesn't even pretend to be a fighting style so I'm not sure why it's on this list.
Choi Li Fut, Koppo, Te and Thamoc I've never heard of, but I'd wager they are either useless, or go in the "fancy moves that are only useful when you know how to fight" category.
Why does this matter? If you're a fighter, or you watch any fighting, you'd know that any good fighter has a foundation of a striking and grappling martial art, usually boxing/muay thai, and BJJ/wrestling. Many have learned other styles in addition to those that give them an edge, but you would never see a pure tae kwon do fighter or kung fu practitioner enter the ring, and I feel that the cyberpunk system should reflect that, since it strives to replicate authentic combat.
Then there's the basic system itself. I would like to rework it, but I don't know how or where to begin. From a game design and balance perspective, the difficulty of learning a martial art should reflect how useful it is. From a reality perspective, some of the most useful martial arts are really easy to learn, and some of the less useful martial arts are extremely difficult. The cyberpunk martial arts system is neither balanced nor realistic. Any thoughts on how to rectify this?
My first idea was just to rework the bonuses. The problem with this is that the system's techniques are very distilled. For example, Thai Kick Boxing will give you +4 kicks. Now why would you learn Tae Kwon Do when it only gives you +3 kicks? In Cyberpunk there is only one kick, and you're either good at it or you're not. In real life, you would learn tae kwon do to increase the variety of your kicks, in order to surprise or confuse your opponent.
My second idea, the one I'm considering now, is to rework the bonuses, but also give each style some unique moves. We'll see.
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No.423966
>>423951
the first thing you've got to understand about CP2020's martial arts is that they're there to serve the same function as everything else: kick ass and look stylish doing so
so when a given martial art is mired in style over substance in reality, it's serving its function in the game perfectly
the same for meme-tier martial arts
for expanded and reworked rules, consider the Interlock Unlimited martial arts supplement (attached file)
as for the stat discrepancy between two arts of the same IP cost, consider what else an art gives you instead of focusing on just one aspect of it. Tae Kwon Do may give you less kick, but Muay Thai doesn't give you any block or sweep
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No.423971
>>423966
You make a good point. Style over substance. For that reason alone you can justify the existence of each martial art in the game, however I still maintain that the bonuses need a reworking.
I'll focus on Tae Kwon Do and Muay Thai specifically.
My example was bad because looking at it again, TKD is the obvious better choice. Each art gives you punch, kick and block. TKD however gives you sweep and dodge, and the art only costs 3 points. MT gives you grapple but costs 4 points.
In reality, TKD should give you punch (but a low bonus), kick, sweep and dodge. I've seen TKD fights and they rarely block, and never have to worry about low kicks.
MT should give you punch, kick, sweep, block and grapple. It should also allow you to "punch" and "kick" in grabbing range to simulate knees/elbows. It should also take away that grapple bonus if the fight ever goes to the ground.
TKD should also give the higher kick bonus, but be more difficult to learn, and have some unique kicks. E.g. the wheel kick (high damage but leaves you open). Or the stepping back-kick (high damage, can be made from casting range).
MT should give lower bonuses to punching than boxing, and lower bonuses to kick than TKD, but be easier to learn, to reflect the fact that they focus on power.
But this is just my autism talking. Thanks for the book, looks good.
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