[–]▶ No.1075890[Last 50 Posts]>>1075893 >>1075908 >>1075921 >>1075996 >>1076855 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
It has all the features modern C and C++ devs try to enforce like const by default, type deduction, package management instead of #include, etc
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▶ No.1075893
>>1075890 (OP)
The userbase isn't full of insufferable hipster faggots like you.
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▶ No.1075895
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▶ No.1075896>>1075897 >>1075907 >>1075955
only niggers think rust will replace C aka you. rust is higher level then C. C is for general low level programming. C is not equivalent to rust and you are a nigger for thinking it is. die you retard. The real comparison is between C++ and rust but thats a whole entire different argument. rust fags that compare C to Rust are one of the worst humans being on this site. worst then the people who shill windows.
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▶ No.1075897>>1075913
>>1075896
>high level
>low level
C is high level though.
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▶ No.1075898>>1075899 >>1075904 >>1075955
why do you think its high level? I define low level as close to the assembly. you can actually see what part of the c code corresponds to part of the assembly you compiled too. whats your niggerlicious defintion. you know in most assembly classes in uni they have you translate C code to assembly at least early on. because its really easy to do. this becomes evident with higher level languages like C++ and rust.
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▶ No.1075899>>1075900
>>1075898
>LARPing
>you can actually see what part of the c code corresponds to part of the assembly you compiled too
Unless of course you forget to terminate your source files with a line feed or you trigger any other of the infinite number of UBs.
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▶ No.1075900>>1075901 >>1075957 >>1075997
>>1075899
Do you know what undefined behavior is? They arent automatically bad right. Its just means what happened isnt defined in the C specification. First off it allows greater optimization. An example would be if i tried to access something out of bounds. This is undefined behaviour. If it wasnt youd have to have some sort of bounds checking to meet c spec slowing it down. Another example would be dividing by zero this is also undefined behaviour. what happens when you divide by zero depends on so much shit. Such as your architecture. Undefined Behaivour isnt the horrible and scary thing you rust fags make it out to be.
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▶ No.1075901>>1075902 >>1076013
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▶ No.1075902>>1075903
>>1075901
>70 percent of all security bugs are memory safety issues
>microsoft
>70 percent of all code is written by subhumans
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▶ No.1075903
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▶ No.1075904
>>1075898
C isn't close to assembly. One statement in C can translate into a dozen statements in assembly.
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▶ No.1075907
>>1075896
i agree that rust is absolute cancer, but i dont think you know what you are talking about
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▶ No.1075908>>1075910
>>1075890 (OP)
Proponents of hand hold-y "safe" languages are soyified man-children, raised by women to behave like women, averse to all risk and accountability.
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▶ No.1075910
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▶ No.1075913>>1075920
>>1075897
It used to be considered high level back when most code which today is written in C or C++ was routinely written in assembly. Nowadays when a huge amount of code is written in languages like Java, C#, Python, or Javascript, and use of assembly is very niche, C is by all means a low-level language.
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▶ No.1075920
>>1075913
>C is by all means a low-level language
But it isn't. It is just lower level than languages like Java, C#, Python, or Javascript.
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▶ No.1075921>>1076699
>>1075890 (OP)
There's no reason, everything should be written in Javascript. God I hate using an OS that isn't made with Javascript, it makes me feel dirty.
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▶ No.1075923>>1075924 >>1075927
C is too hard to write a standard-complicant compiler for. Terry Davis said fuck that shit, HolyC is different and fuck standard C, it's a mess. And he's right, you know. Look at the bloated ass compilers that exist today. Fuck that, my money's on Forth and asm, because I'm going towards low-fi and small, unbloated, unbotnet.
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▶ No.1075924>>1075926
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▶ No.1075926>>1075929
>>1075924
Meh, you're just a pleb with no vision or self-reliance or inspiration. You hate to see people leave the boiling pot that is modern software clownworld. I don't gaf though. I already left x86 for ARM (the ones that don't speculate) and left Linux over 10 years ago for OpenBSD. In another 10 years I'll be somewhere altogether different. TBQH, I fucking hate everything about the modern computer industry, so it's not like I have any incentive to keep doing the same shit as everyone else.
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▶ No.1075927>>1075929
>>1075923
It's just people have this retarded idea that for some reasons languages should be a separate thing from the compilers / interpreters while in reality compiler = language.
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▶ No.1075929>>1075931 >>1075934
>>1075926
>LARPing
>>1075927
>compiler = language
Peak UNIX braindamage.
If a language is properly specified (C/C++ is _not_ properly specified) then having multiple compilers is no problem.
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▶ No.1075931>>1075932 >>1075957
>>1075929
Like there ever was a single case of multiple compilers (or things in general) being a good thing.
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▶ No.1075932>>1075933
>>1075931
>what is JVM
spotted the LARPer
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▶ No.1075933>>1075935
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▶ No.1075934>>1075935
>>1075929
Where's your unbloated C11 compiler, cunt?
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▶ No.1075935>>1075936
>>1075933
>hurr durr you've activeated my trap card
>Java is shit (or so I've heard) so that means I can discard your argument
>>1075934
C/C++ is shit braindamage. Why would I write a compiler for that?
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▶ No.1075936>>1075937
>>1075935
> literally uses the same "trap card"
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▶ No.1075937>>1075938
>>1075936
>he has no counter argument so he resorts to shitposting
keep going
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▶ No.1075938>>1075939
>>1075937
Keeping going is shit braindamage. Why would I keep going?
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▶ No.1075939
>>1075938
hahaha epic bro
another one please
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▶ No.1075955>>1076121
>>1075896
>>1075898
C is not low level enough to address specific ISA instructions and it's not high level for syntactically correct and enforced abstractions. It's a trash language that's only used in legacy code or projects too expensive to rewrite.
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▶ No.1075957
>>1075931
Common Lisp, having independent compilers actually unveiled problems with the spec. In other languages, these remain uncaught (the committee is STILL trying to fix C) or people are just bug-for-bug compatible with the "reference implementation" (an awful term).
>>1075900
Ah yes, getting rid of a negligible performance penalty for the bargain price of introducing the vast majority of security exploits, what a deal. Languages which can disable security features locally when necessary have existed for decades. Rust is just one of many.
>b-b-but in correct software they are unnecessary
If current software is anything to go by, people can't even remotely write correct software yet. Even then defense in depth and security margins are things in engineering for a reason. It's only software \fiftyquotes{engineering} that's the retarded gluehuffing child in the corner.
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▶ No.1075972>>1075985 >>1075990
C and C++ are standards. They will be around forever. They have been around forever. Rust is one meme language competing against thousands of meme languages who all have stupid gimmicks.
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▶ No.1075985
>>1075972
>will be around forever
You can see their industry share drop laughably with the years.
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▶ No.1075990
>>1075972
>muh standard
You might be going Cnile. Please consult with a doctor. I'm worried for (You).
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▶ No.1075996
>>1075890 (OP)
>C and C++
you narrowly avoided writing C/C++, but you committed the error anyway. Rust replacing C++ is reasonable. Rust replacing C is absurd.
C is more than a set of features. It is also a set of non-features, that when you approach a C codebase you can expect to not find.
>features ... devs try to enforce like const by default
it is not just languages without a feature that can require discipline. Languages with lots of features also require discipline -- to use those features sparingly, or well (which might be the same thing). When you approach a Common Lisp codebase you have to hope there's not a lot of complete macro bullshit that's just the author jacking himself off.
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▶ No.1075997>>1076004 >>1076016
>>1075900
>muh undefined behavior for speed
C has undefined behavior because its standard is poorly written. Forth has the same problem but, due to a better standard, people understand that their Forth systems will document the deterministic behavior demanded by a particular architecture. This lack of nasal demons comes at no loss of speed.
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▶ No.1076004>>1076016
>>1075997
Cetards love to make up their own fake history and then pretend it's what actually happened. I have no idea why this group in particular is so prone to it, but it really sets them apart from other groups.
To expand on the C standard part a bit: The C standard is specifically written so that the "obvious" implementation is conforming. This is why the pointer and integer semantics are completely ridiculous from an abstract point of view. If you actually try to implement the language as specified but with safety guarantees and useful features, you will quickly find yourself writing an emulation layer; the language is not designed to support it.
Which makes the current mindset by compiler vendors that people totally write in abstract C and any undefined behavior is a free ticket to lala-land even more ridiculous. C doesn't leave signed overflow behavior undefined so that some dumb microoptimization in loops can happen; it leaves it undefined because on different hardware there are different defaults and that way the implementation can choose whatever is more natural. But try to get this into a cetard's head. He read somewhere that people use undefined overflow for optimization, so clearly, CLEARLY, the great Unix gods in their infinite wisdom anticipated this and left it undefined for precisely that reason! The same people likely also believe that C arrays are zero-indexed for runtime speed, and that /sbin is for superuser binaries.
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▶ No.1076013>>1076016
>>1075901
>https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/download/fastest.svg
most benchmarks i have seen C has been faster.
>bounds checking is slow
bounds checking is slow
https://www.imperial.ac.uk/pls/portallive/docs/1/18619746.PDF
>dividing by zero this is also undefined behaviour
it is you fucking retard. in the literal c stadard it describes divide by zero as "unedefined" you are one of the most brain brain dead nigger monkey person i have ever read a message from
>memory issues are common
okay?
i hate this website
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▶ No.1076016>>1076121
>>1075997
based
>>1076004
based
>>1076013
>most benchmarks i have seen C has been faster.
citation needed
>bounds checking is slow
That's why you don't do it (after having proven that all accesses are in bounds). This won't be a problem for the parts that are performance critical.
Protip: Good abstractions, like Iterators, help you do this.
>it is you fucking retard.
I wasn't claiming otherwise. I only called it braindamaged.
>>memory issues are common
No. They are pervasive. Just like UNIX braindamage.
>i hate this website
see pic
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▶ No.1076121
>>1075955
Isn't C so pervasive because Bell Labs wasn't able to patent it, so it got dumped on the universities?
>>1076016
Can you start referring to them as Cmonkeys? or Ccows? or Canemones?
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▶ No.1076222>>1076261 >>1076365 >>1076553
I think one of the reasons that rust specifically won't beat C is because their developer-base is so totally oblivious to the underlying computer architecture. C was written while it was still common to write assembly by hand, so the language is at its core an easier way of writing assembler instructions. You can mentally map a C program to a vauge understanding of the underlying assembly, and idiomatic C is idiomatic assembler.
Rust, on the other hand, is totally unintuitive when thought of on the assembly level. Things like objects, methods and borrow checking are abstractions that make it hard to understand what's being done where. You now have to mentally add the assembly code for the borrow checker, type safety checks and array bounds checks. Some rust devs may be able to handle that (and those are the people writing speedtests for rust), but most aren't able to map that and will probably write slower code.
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▶ No.1076261>>1076524
>>1076222
You don't - you write algorithmically quick and constructively correct code and the compiler optimises it down to better assembly than anyone can write. In fact, every benchmark where rust beats C/C++ is because people wrongly assumed anything about the computer running the code.
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▶ No.1076365>>1076524 >>1076640
>>1076222
This is a myth. C lacks parallelism, vectoring and all kinds of other hardware features such as automatic overflow checking el oh el. It's primitive, not close to the hardware.
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▶ No.1076428>>1076507
But what about the actual safety critical language used in satellites, rockets, and airplanes?
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▶ No.1076507
>>1076428
Largely replaced by C and a subset of C++ with modern logic analyzers like tla+
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▶ No.1076524>>1076541 >>1076553 >>1076597
>>1076365
Your computer may have bounds checking and shit now, but those aren't standard. Say I'm using a number I know won't go over bounds, and I'm adding to it. If C checked that number anyway, that might be a cheap operation on your machine, but on someone else's it may be an expensive one. I'd rather have my compiler optimize code I did write than add code I didn't.
>>1076261
You need to know about the computer architecture for lots of efficient algorithms and data structures. How would hopscotch hashing work if I didn't know a PC's word size?
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▶ No.1076541>>1076553
>>1076524
>efficient
Hashing functions are not formally considered in computer science as their worst case scenario is collision at every call. Despite this, you can simply use your favourite language's sizeof() instead.
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▶ No.1076553>>1076608 >>1076640
>>1076222
>Things like objects, methods and borrow checking are abstractions that make it hard to understand what's being done where.
Holy shit you're retarded. Rusts "objects" are structs, enums, and unions. C has both structs and unions. Rusts enums are just tagged unions.
If you find that hard to understand you might be going cnile.
>You now have to mentally add the assembly code for the borrow checker, type safety checks and array bounds checks.
?????????????????????????
Holy shit the braindamage.
Borrow checking and type checking happens at compile time. There is no assembly being generated.
>anime image
Of course it's a fucking weeb. Stop LARPing and learn a programming language.
>>1076524
>LARPing
Holy shit, just stop.
>Your computer may have bounds checking and shit now
It doesn't. You use abstractions that help the compiler optimize the bounds checks away.
>>1076541
>Hashing functions are not formally considered in computer science
>simply use your favourite language's sizeof()
Another retard joins the conversation.
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▶ No.1076597
>>1076524
>those aren't standard
Yes they are. There is exactly one joke of a CPU that doesn't have automatic overflow checking and that's RISC-V, which is a bad meme that can go fuck itself with a cactus for all I care. Your CPU already does these checks, your C code just ignores them like a retard.
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▶ No.1076608>>1076610 >>1076680
>>1076553
>Another retard joins the conversation.
If you're writing non-portable code on purpose, you're a bad programmer and need to step away from non-assembly languages.
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▶ No.1076610>>1076680 >>1076693
>>1076608
Protip: There exists no portable C program.
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▶ No.1076640>>1076672 >>1076680
>>1076553
> He's literally unable to stop saying LARP
Why do you do this to yourself and those around you?
> It doesn't. You use abstractions that help the compiler optimize the bounds checks away.
Tell that to >>1076365, who had just said that's untrue and who I was speaking to in the first place.
> Borrow checking and type checking happens at compile time. There is no assembly being generated.
See https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/any/
> anime image
newfag detected
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▶ No.1076672>>1076680
>>1076640
Whether Rust uses hardware features is unrelated to whether they exist, mongoloid. Also stop confusing overflow checking and bounds checking already, Jesus.
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▶ No.1076680>>1076701
>>1076608
>LARPing
>>1076610
based
>>1076640
>See https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/any/
What' your point?
>newfag detected
Just kill yourself already. Nobody likes weebs.
>>1076672
based
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▶ No.1076693>>1076697 >>1076721
>>1076610
None of yours, of course. If your code follows the standard and the compiler supports the platform, your program will run perfeclty.
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▶ No.1076697>>1076698
>>1076693
>If your code follows the standard
Easier said than done when you need a law degree to understand the standard.
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▶ No.1076698>>1076700 >>1076721
>>1076697
You don't see electrical engineers whining about chinese PCB quality or scientists - about the laws of thermodynamics. They just sit down and do a good job.
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▶ No.1076699
>>1075921
>pic
Wtf is that even supposed to be?!
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▶ No.1076700>>1076701
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▶ No.1076701>>1076702
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▶ No.1076702>>1076703
>>1076701
If you show me a strictly conforming C program you've written I'll show you my CV.
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▶ No.1076703>>1076705
>>1076702
No I'm just a larper, I want to learn from you. Show me your github as well.
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▶ No.1076705>>1076707
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▶ No.1076707>>1076708
>>1076705
Not that bullshit, I want to see yours. Man up or give up.
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▶ No.1076708>>1076709
>>1076707
>show me a strictly conforming C program you've written
Man up or give up.
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▶ No.1076709>>1076711
>>1076708
You first, retard. Put your money where your big mouth is.
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▶ No.1076711>>1076712
>>1076709
But I asked you first?
Here is my CV btw:
Anonymous
Education:
Technical University of [redacted]
Master of Science, Computer Science 2016-2018
Bachelor of Science, Major in Computer Science, Minor in Computational linguistics 2013-2016
Experience:
[redacted]
Now show me your strictly conforming C program.
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▶ No.1076712>>1076713
>>1076711
Pffft. I knew you'd back off and give up. Stupid larper. Then it's settled - let this be a lesson to you, kid - never mouth off to strangers online.
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▶ No.1076713>>1076714
>>1076712
>he still has not produced a strictly conforming C program
LARPer
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▶ No.1076714>>1076721
>>1076713
Okay, in your style:
int main(void){return 0;}
I love owning spergs like you online.
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▶ No.1076721>>1076722 >>1081422
>>1076693
Nice LARP, but you never wrote anything like that.
>>1076698
>the C standard is on the same level as a physical law
"People" with that much unix braindamage should just be put out of their misery.
>>1076714
At last I see the light, C is truly the best language for writing NOP programs. How will C's bright future look like? Maybe in five years we will have a conforming hello world? Maybe in ten years we will have, though this is dreaming at this point, a conforming fizzbuzz? I can't wait! I can't wait!
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▶ No.1076722
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▶ No.1076855>>1076912
>>1075890 (OP)
don't come back until it runs on non-pozzed platforms
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▶ No.1076912
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▶ No.1081422
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