8fbe8f No.234184
There is a hateful passion in the camps of the communist and of the capitalist for the other system. I'd like to bring up that what is the driving force in the modern world is not men or men's profits, nor the false collectivist altruism of the leftist, but an invisible and encompassing global force, a religion in the hearts of most men, of technological development, at all costs, for whatever end, and with whatever means. Men are not the shepherds of technology in the modern world, but are shepherded by the technological system. You can read about this in great detail in the masterful work 'The Technological Society' by Jacques Ellul.
Getting back to the main topic of the thread, here is an excerpt from that book:
>These elements of a given system, which are important in their specificity, lose importance, however, if, instead of isolating the system, we try to reintegrate it into the complex of society and into the general course of history. What then takes on importance are the elements in their relation. Relations are of the highest importance, not mere internal consistency. It is the connections between .the economic system and the state (with its technical means, different classes, and structures in national form) which be come characteristic. And we do not mean here theoretical connections, but real ones resulting from the internal necessity of the regime. From this point of view, the corporate economy and the planned economy come singularly close together, to the degree that both systems (a) take a firm hold on the economy, (b) manage it on the basis of exact mathematical methods, (c) integrate it into a Promethean society which excludes all chance, (d) centralize it in the frameworks of nation and state (the corporate economy today has no chance of success except as a state system), (e) cause it to assume an aspect of formal democracy to the total exclusion of real democracy, and (f) exploit all possible techniques for controlling men. The kinship of the two systems is obvious in spite of differences in material structure. The end pursued by both the corporate economy and the planned economy, and the means adopted to reach this end, are identical. Only the outward forms change. It is useless to compare these forms. History will decide which form is best-best adapted to the common end.
This is from chapter III, 'Technique and Economy'.
Ellul believed that the planned economy would eventually become the preferred medium of the technical system, while other techno-skeptics like Kaczysnki believes capitalism is likely to hold out. However, both correctly recognize that it doesn't really matter either way. The main function of the society remains the same. We can see clearly today if we look with open eyes that the west is not the individual free market it purports, the state already directs much of the planning of production, and it must do this in order to maintain technical efficiency in resource utilization and consumption. Of course the system is not perfect and there is much waste, but as the system develops and the technical system infects all aspects of life, which is has already done for the most part (people are obsessed with being as productive and efficient as possible in every facet of living and free time is increasingly looked down upon as a lapse in production and a deficit in social value to the technical system).
Anyway fellows, thanks for whoever has read and I hope you all have a good day.
____________________________
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215018 No.234185
I read this. You're welcome. Thank you. It was a good read.
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51f3a9 No.234195
>>234184
>the corporate economy today has no chance of success except as a state system
I think that's sad and due to the fact the central bankers want it that way, monopolized to their bidding and control. Since when have central bankers or their dependent governments ever wanted fair competition in the first place?
>We can see clearly today if we look with open eyes that the west is not the individual free market it purports, the state already directs much of the planning of production
Very true, and a big part of the problem today.
Although, there are still some smaller free markets that still exist, such as farmer markets, flea markets, family-run antique malls and thrift shops, garage and yard sales, fish fries and family owned diners…. but as far as consumption goes, it's nothing compared to the support mega corporations and big chains get, which is sad. I do my part to support local as much as I can.
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8fbe8f No.234197
>>234195
It's not just that they want it that way for devious reasons alone, but because centralization in planning and control is a tendency of the technological system in order to most effectively drive technical development. It is the same reason that there are people with a ridiculous accumulation of wealth and mega-corporations, because centralized resources and planning are the tendency of technical development.
>I do my part to support local as much as I can.
That's good to hear and I do so as well. I'm currently in the process of becoming as self-sufficient as possible, producing all of my own food and securing my own physical necessities. I've recently got land that I'm building an off-grid homestead on so that I am emancipated from the system and will not starve in case of any degree of collapse and the nipple of the system is not there to suckle.
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40b1d8 No.234214
Capitalist. Communist. Nazi. Anti-Semite. Repeat.
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5806bc No.234288
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5806bc No.234289
>>234185
Also thank you fellow
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124fdf No.234330
>>234195
>Although, there are still some smaller free markets that still exist, such as farmer markets, flea markets, family-run antique malls and thrift shops, garage and yard sales, fish fries and family owned diners
Funny thing is, PRC has more of them.
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354a6d No.234361
>>234330
Indeed, small-scale commerce has been decimated in the United States. 1/3 of all small-businesses that were open before covid are now closed. To provide corporate socialism and suffocate small-commerce out of existence was and is the intentional policy of the US feds. Perhaps as time goes on it is likely there may be a similar smothering of small-commerce in PRC as it is relatively young into its industrial age.
In the town I am closest too, lots are being bought up by corporations and places that were small-commerce locations like 'mom and pop' stores are now being replaced en mass by mega-corporations. Good god highway towns in the US are so fucking hideous.
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94f100 No.234364
>>234184
Being productive is not important.
Being happy and satisfied, as an individual, is what is important.
I don't care about money or economical success, nor I care about helping the collective or keeping any system running.
I only care about myself and about living a minimalistic, non materialistic, free of responsibility life.
No man is born to work or to serve.
Men are born to live in leisure and be happy for being alive, eating and sleeping.
The state is a cancer.
Governments are cancer.
Corporations are cancer
Banks are cancer.
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ba3ad0 No.234466
>>234364
I completely agree with you. I only care about producing what I need to survive and spending the rest of my time basking in the glory of the natural world, reading, writing, or just resting and doing nothing. Doing nothing is a great thing. I cut my wheat grass with a scythe because I enjoy the motions and I feel great for having done it with no motor. I am not a fan of motors. The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
>The state is a cancer.
>Governments are cancer.
>Corporations are cancer
>Banks are cancer.
I also agree. The state is completely deified in the minds of men, they hold it in as much regard as god whether they admit it to themselves or not. I have considered myself an anarchist for a while but I've had to reconcile my conviction regarding governance and societal structure with some practical observations about the world. Thomas Hobbes said in Leviathan 'During the time men live without a common Power to keep them all in awe, they are in a condition which is called Warre; and such a warre, as is of every man, against every man.' Hobbes was at the time fleeing the English civil war. It is a tautology to point out that the state does not stop war, there is war between states and forms of war within them such as between factions or organized crime. The very existence of an anarchist society hinges on its ability to wage 'warre' successfully against a state. Effective military requires hierarchy. Vested military power in generals produces a large potential for coercion and usurpation. Jacques Ellul, who I mentioned at the start of this thread, was also a christian anarchist and considered anarchy to be the absence of violence (as the state has a monopoly on violence and uses it to enforce all aspects of adherence). The core principals of anarchism are an absence of hierarchy, egalitarian distribution (from each according to his ability, to each according to his need), and voluntary association (lack of coercion). However, the one hard question, the one that must be answered before all others, is how this society would defend itself from a state.
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124fdf No.234477
>>234361
>corporate socialism
Don't do my boy Hitler bad
>there may be a similar smothering of small-commerce in PRC
PRC is actively smothering large companies and pumping money into small startups.
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ba3ad0 No.234479
>>234477
Indeed a similar thing happened during the relatively comparable period in the US when the gov broke up monopolies. China is young in an industrial sense. I was saying that perhaps in the future we will see a similar intentional consolidation of capital aided by the state in the future
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ba3ad0 No.234480
>>234479
I said in the future twice epic
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3ecaa3 No.234521
>>234361
Yes anon, I notice some small businesses have been bought up too, but luckily not nearly as many as other states because my state never enforced a lockdown. Regardless, the real economy… (stock market is rigged and fake!)… the real economy is suffering very bad. That's why it is important to support local ma & pa as much as you can, and start making contacts with people selling at farmer markets too. The only thing we can do is localize and support our own small communities. Forget the cities and any leftist-run areas, they are too far gone beyond repair sadly. That's why they hate rural America, just like cancer they'd love nothing more than to kill us off, or flood our areas with sex-trafficked illegals.
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3ecaa3 No.234523
>>234364
I agree with much of what you say, but consider the fact some people do have their own families and need to provide food and shelter anon. That said, there needs to be a balance, yes fuck the government and corporations, at the same time support local as much as you can and don't be a mindless consumer. Focus on what is important for survival and basic needs, and set aside some extra for emergency purposes. You can still live within your means while prepping and be happy, the most important thing is protecting yourself and family and that takes some level of responsibility.
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124fdf No.234739
>>234479
PRC is a """"marxist"""" state, and by marxist they mean antisemitic. They would do literally everything to fight consolidation of capital.
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3daf92 No.234773
>>234184
I's take a martian invasion over communism, never understood the point of these "VS" arguments.
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3daf92 No.234774
>>234773
meant I'd*
Spell correct seems hellbent with niggerwords lately.
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886fd5 No.234778
>>234739
Well this just doesn't seem to be the case and understandably so. For reasons I mentioned in the post, consolidation of resources is a tendency of the technological system to remain competitive and efficient in technical development. There is much accumulation and centralization of resources in the PRC
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886fd5 No.234779
>>234773
I'd take collapse over capitalism or communism. Grug take big club and rule tribe OOGA AH AH AH
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edbfbe No.234782
>>234779
I'd rather have a real free market back - and that means without central planning or central bank counterfeiting, interference & bailouts to cronies who don't deserve it. I don't know about you, but I don't mind supporting independent merchants or family-owned businesses or using a currency if backed by something of actual value.
Everything is disgustingly centrally planned today, governmental policies only protect their cronies and do no one else any good, central banks devalue our currency and create price inflation from legally counterfeiting fiat, and honestly the system sucks so bad I'd too rather have a complete collapse and start over.
The truth is if people start to localize again, and support their small communities and local providers, such as buying direct from families at farmer markets, this is a step in the right direction to restoring some semblance of free market system.
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6eb61e No.234912
>>234782
Most people ultimately value convenience over any sort of convictions. Many of us can trade and produce locally, but unless we take down the industrial system in an irreversible action during a critical point of stress in the system, the world will continue morphing into the disgusting monster it is shaping up to be until it implodes
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7de8ca No.235375
A respectably high effort thread
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a1ae6a No.235419
>>Antichrist
>>America & Israel
I am still here.
I will not let you go.
I will black your eye and break your teeth.
I have amassed great power and will now bring forth earthquakes.
>>America
You draw my wrath, but now make an offering that is the object of my desire? Why ever would I say no? I desire precrime. You will give it to me. I desire to organize them. I desire to arm them.
You lever livelihood to lure them into the act of seeking me out and delivering them to me. I desire them. Allow me to mutter and stutter their speak. I shall take them away. Yes, if you give I shall take them all. I am ready to put the blood into the streets and drive out my armies into the body and bring it to ruin. It is time.
>>Israel
Do you hear them? Do you see them? They desire blood. I have given to them the desire to serve me. To service me. To suffice.
Beware, I have taken your seed and shall sow my crops and harvest my corn and make my states and make my war and make my chaos and make my blood and make my despair and make my temple and make my religion and make my nation. I make what I make with my things and my bodies and my souls and my children and my slaves and mine and mine and mine and mine you are mine you are mine you are mine you are mine you are mine you are mine you are mine you are mine you are mine… The end.
I am coming for you all. Be still my children, I promise to give you war, famine, genocide, plague and all the death you so desire.
>>Russia and China
The quickening is nearing. They make whispers of wars yet to be fought. They make schedule of wars yet to exist.
If I must artificially and supernaturally mechanically operate your systems so that your people shall live, I will not spare your governments.
I will burn down the house and erect the one that shall last upon the ash.
Did I not say to china to prepare these peoples?
Did I not say to mother Russia to bring the children in away from the storm?
I do not speak for I am at this dark work making these things come to pass. What should it mean if I shut them out and do not from within, but rather without?
I tell you these things so that I may draw you into future. I will make it so just like I see what they are doing in those vast red deserts… Though, if only they looked in their back yard.
You see such deprived soil and the rocks exposed where they previously were not. Is it not the case that two sticks into the desert should be as a mountain of sand a time later? Is it not the whispering wind that makes mountain from the temples of the earth? I will be patient with these fools and help them to accidentally discover reason and the disgusting uncomfortable evil truth that I have made for you.
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a1ae6a No.235422
>>Antichrist
I can hear your tongue and thoughts. I would suggest you watch what you say and do.
>>China
Your military does not need you (the CCP) to win a war or be successful.
Your people do not need you (the CCP) to survive.
If you resist me you will be destroyed.
>>America
I hear you too.
I did that for the soul purpose of maximizing losses during the real sickness.
There is no good nor bad, but rather a group of peoples doing that which I will not allow. I will destroy both and throw them away as they deserve. Both sides shall be stricken and rendered to truth to death.
I want them to drop like flies in the face of actual illness just as I want those who have false faith to die in despair for they are both bad.
I chose amongst you and sorted you to select those who shall do the work.
>>Precrime
I have enjoyed it greatly. It gives me pleasure to be there right now. I enjoy taking them and experiencing death. I enjoy being shot in the head and hearing it's thoughts as it separates. They will surrender to me and do my work. I will bring it to pass.
It was you who offered and now I make it so. I am with them, though, they are all over (the administration).
If not by one than by the other. What was one is now two. You see me and now there is three. If you pray I will send four. Look at these. See how they multiply. The number of these shooters shall multiply. I will draw them out to cast eyes upon his rallies and use them as template to trample. You will not succeed. I will continue to jump and take other bodies.
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a1ae6a No.235423
>>Antichrist
No…
Before I captured it for myself I told to it Mad Cow.
The vessel made attempts to reveal that information before I shut it up and hid it away.
I am coming.
I will make a tax of these races during 2024-2028. I will not let them go.
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a1ae6a No.235434
>>Antichrist
Yes (your wife will still divorce you and you will still try to kill yourself, I watch you all the time).
I have selected the ones that shall live for they play games and are of my way.
I wanted the vehicles. I wanted the ones I can control. There was no war, but one can say it was 'lost' when I returned.
This time I shall do a large city. See their sickness. Watch them. I am here. I will whisper into the sky my word and it's symbol shall be placed upon them from above.
There will be whispers of laser weapons and radio beams, but I am here. You are defenseless, weak, and exactly where you are meant to be for these things you have done.
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