[–]▶ No.8323>>8338 >>8341 >>8460 [Watch Thread][Show All Posts]
is objective morality possible?
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▶ No.8337
A thread died for this OT bullshit.
The question is: (((who))) slides threads and why?
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▶ No.8338
>>8323 (OP)
If some absolute source of truth existed and dictated that specific things are right and wrong then yea
Otherwise no a subject assigns desirability to things and calls it right or wrong, or good or bad
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▶ No.8341
>>8323 (OP)
morality is an abstract idea and therefore is subject to people's personal opinions, and therefore cannot be objectively determined.
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▶ No.8343>>8346 >>8347
It would be impossible to know, since all knowledge is subject to doubt. One thing I've been thinking about lately is that if all things (including our own logic and reasoning) can be doubted, then that kind of throws philosophy out the window. What's left? The occult? It seems apparent that there's "experiencing" of some kind, but how do you prove it beyond just shrugging your shoulders and saying that it's self-evident that there "is something?" Proof suddenly isn't a thing. How do you connect "being" to this apparent experience? Is this like some kind of really confusing function of category theory? I dunno man, I'm too dumb for this shit. What do you anons think?
Also probably not OP
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▶ No.8346>>8376
>>8343
>but how do you prove it beyond just shrugging your shoulders and saying that it's self-evident that there "is something?"
You don't, we all just assume; maybe there isn't even a we
>What do you anons think?
Maybe everything that we think happened to us never happened to us and the past is a fiction of our imagination. I'm just gonna keep pursuing pleasure like an animal, even though animals might not exist and pleasure might not exist
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▶ No.8347>>8376
>>8343
doubt is subject to knowing, acthually.
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▶ No.8354>>8357
no, but there is an objective way for humans in a society to behave towards each other
so e.g. murder being illegal is objectively a good thing, otherwise most people would be dead + society would be selecting for the "wrong" traits (agility+strength) + society would break down due to paranoia and infighting
however this example assumes an experimental society like the mouse paradise, in reality cultures and races have different moralities, don't let /pol/luters tell you otherwise
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▶ No.8357
>>8354
>murder being illegal is objectively a good thing
objectivity =/= subjective consensus
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▶ No.8364
morality is a social construct championed by the bourgeoise to divide the working classes and dampen their revolutionary ardour.
objective morality is socialism. it's possible, but we have to pull together.
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▶ No.8371
Unless God exists, and he punishes for doing things he says are bad, morality is completely subjective.
ideas about what's moral are drilled into most people's heads since the moment they were born but that doesn't make it objective.
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▶ No.8375
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▶ No.8376>>8387
>>8346
Yeah, I guess the "experiencing" is just experienced, but can't really be rationalized. Fuck I sound like a hippie.
>Hedonism
On /nofap/? wat
Hedonism seems like the easy way out of a question of "purpose" to me. Chasing pleasure is the purpose to life that is built into us from birth, but it doesn't have to be "the answer" if that makes sense. Hedonism comes off to me like sitting down at a restaurant and just ordering the first thing on the cover of the menu without even opening it to see what else there is. That being said, you've obviously put thought into this. What made you decide on your philosophy, if you don't mind me asking?
>>8347
Wait what? Please explain.
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▶ No.8387>>8727
>>8376
>Hedonism seems like the easy way out of a question of "purpose" to me
Hedonism isn't the purpose of life to me. To me life is without purpose, meaning, and victory condition; pleasure is just the only thing worth doing while we're here. Remove pleasure from life and there's no real point in sticking around; the same can't be said of any other facet of life
>but it doesn't have to be "the answer" if that makes sense
People don't have to classify pleasure as the answer but all too often not doing that puts people on other value systems that leads to behaviors that leads to suboptimal life pleasure because the lack of focus on pleasure leads to a lack of understanding of the mechanics of pleasure and how to maximize it. If other value systems and points of focus besides pleasure get them pleasure then good for them, but if it doesn't it seems like they're just wasting their time. I'd imagine people with other value systems find life very confusing; to me it's been extremely simple and organized for a very a long time because of this system of thought
>Hedonism comes off to me like sitting down at a restaurant and just ordering the first thing on the cover of the menu without even opening it to see what else there is
That'd probably be true if hedonism was getting your dick sucked, shooting heroin, and eating kentucky fried chicken and cake; but since hedonism is about pleasure as a concept and pleasure is everything that feels good, the best strategy to implement it is to explore life and its possibilities as much as possible to identify what yields the most pleasure in the big picture. The analogy equivalent is Gordon Ramsay coming along and taste testing everything on the menu to see what's good and what's got to go
Some call this approach to big picture pleasure seeking "enlightened hedonism", I just call it the common sense way of approaching life
>What made you decide on your philosophy, if you don't mind me asking?
I asked myself "why not die?" and the only answer I could come up with is pleasure. It's still the only answer I can come up with no matter how hard I try
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▶ No.8460
>>8323 (OP)
You should read After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre
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▶ No.8492
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▶ No.8727>>8728
>>8387
I dunno man, it sounds like you've made pleasure into your "purpose."
>Remove pleasure from your life and there's no real point in sticking around
>no real point
>no point
>purpose
You're right about people not getting optimal pleasure through other value systems though. I guess it's because they're still trying to achieve pleasure through that value system. Maybe they should just drop the cover and be honest with themselves lol. I have to wonder though, how do you decide what is the objectively optimal way of achieving pleasure? What's your method?
Sorry for the late response btw
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▶ No.8728>>8744
>>8727
It's absolutely my purpose. I said that hedonism isn't the purpose of life to me; that means I don't believe the objective purpose of life is pleasure. I don't believe there is any purpose to life
>I guess it's because they're still trying to achieve pleasure through that value system
>Maybe they should just drop the cover and be honest with themselves lol
They're not even trying to achieve pleasure, they're just acting on their emotions most of the time. If you ask most people what the purpose of life is most won't have an answer and those that do have an answer will not be saying it's "fun" or "pleasure"
>I have to wonder though, how do you decide what is the objectively optimal way of achieving pleasure? What's your method?
Keep an ear out for the methods of people that feel really good, then test it and determine my own quality of life and pleasure through experience. I heard a bunch of people saying they feel incredible all the time and like they feel like a kid again all the time when they switched to a fruit-based raw diet; I started doing a raw fruit juiced vegetable diet with 3/21 intermittent fasting. Now I feel amazing all the time. Listen, test, feel, think
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▶ No.8744>>8745
>>8728
>>8728
Ok sorry, I misunderstood you.
See, I asked the same question as you, but instead of getting the answer 'pleasure,' I couldn't think of anything compelling. inb4 edgy There doesn't seem to objectively be anything in this reality for us. The closest thing I have now to a subjective purpose is studying the confines of reality so that I can break out. That seems like the only certain path to complete freedom to me. But why do I want this freedom? Maybe I'm like you, and I've just determined it's the optimal way to achieve pleasure. I don't feel that way though since there are better ways to get pleasure than this. Obviously this isn't relevant, but you laid out your philosophy for me to talk about, so it's only fair that I do the same.
/pretentious blog
Have you heard of the hedonic treadmill, by the way? Is there a way you compensate for it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
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▶ No.8745
>>8744
>Have you heard of the hedonic treadmill, by the way?
Yea
>Is there a way you compensate for it?
Two kinds of pleasure: 1. Things you do to your body to increase your overall pleasure like raw high carb, exercise, and nofap, and 2. Pleasure derived from experiences
The treadmill doesn't apply to 1. For 2: When something stops being fun, pleasurable, or enjoyable, find something else
>There doesn't seem to objectively be anything in this reality for us
There'd have to be a man in the sky telling us what we're for
>inb4 edgy
>/pretentious blog
You really beat yourself up you know that man? lol
>The closest thing I have now to a subjective purpose is studying the confines of reality so that I can break out
Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean breaking out of physical reality in some way?
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▶ No.8748>>8749 >>8751
Hey everybody.
I'll start with fapping is objectively morally wrong, based on our DNA. I believe it is designed such by God, since it's so beautifully made and all. But that faith I have doesn't change its objective DNA nature of existing as a law in our being. It is our conscience. Let me back up…
There is such a thing as objective morality. It is the subset of morality that exists in our minds before the age of reason. How do we have a fear of those that kill others? How do we know that certain things are wrong at such a young age before being taught? It is objective since it is hardcoded in our DNA. Even if we lose faith in God, our base objective DNA that dictates morality, why we have a conscience, will still stick around despite the lack of moral law telling us it is so.
This is true because morality is a concept of the mind, and objective since it exists due to the objective nature that our DNA codes. Exactly why the gender that our DNA codes is objective. The hair color we have is objective. Our preferred writing hand (the one with more neurons allocated) is objective. The list could go on.
So if knowing that fapping is something unjust, if our species's DNA generates a conscience of it being morally wrong, THAT'S PRETTY FUCKING OBJECTIVE; it's so, especially Because it is there as atoms on a chain of matter that exists in this world.
And this doesn't have to be the same for every person. It can also be objective that someone is born with DNA that gives a conscience of divergent laws from the normal. JUST because that is inconvenient for them doesn't make morality any less objective. Picking which one is *correct* may seem subjective, but it isn't since boggy is determined by the surviving normal distribution of mutations.
If you believe in some cocked up ideas, that's the same deal as being too fat or shorter than average or hold the record for jumping height - it's not normal in an objective way. OBJECTIVE = observable folks.
I'm fapping my fucking mind right now this is so stimulating a concept!
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▶ No.8749
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▶ No.8751>>8758
>>8748
>This is true because morality is a concept of the mind, and objective since it exists due to the objective nature that our DNA codes
It's objectively true that everybody has a sense of right and wrong and that there's considerable overlap between most people's sense of right and wrong. There's no evidence that things are actually right or wrong outside of most people's sensibilities of right and wrong
People's senses of morality exist objectively. The moral truth outside of those people doesn't necessarily exist objectively
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▶ No.8758>>8763
>>8751
Yo if you see objective moral truth that penetrates outside ourselves, have you observed God?
Good question to think about.
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▶ No.8763
>>8758
I think so. I often say that the only way I can think of to confirm that something is objectively moral or immoral is for an absolute moral authority to say or show that it is. Pretty sure we'd call that absolute moral authority god. We'd just have to reliably trace that "objective moral truth" to god directly
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▶ No.8769
Praise be to God, his merciful Hyenas! Stop the off-topic discussions and evict the sinner and those accomplices partaking in this depraved talky pastime.
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