/liberty/ - Liberty

OP: I wouldn't be a worker, I'd be a faggot!

>>93037

>Ode to the bootlicking irresponsibility, the pic

You cannot even tell the difference between a communist and neetsoc shitpost these days, so much for the "2 opposite ideologies" and "left/right distinction".

>>93037

>muh roads

>>93041

i don't know why people find salaries appealing when you can get royally fucked with unpaid overtime.

>>93040

No, you're just a faggot

That is all

Being a "Card carrying member" of a socialist or Communist political party does not prevent someone's class nature from being Working class

>>93115

>class nature

Spooky

>>93123

Class Nature and class in general is something that is Material and can actually be observed

>>93132

>lightning is material and can be observed therefore it proves the existence of God

>>93134

Were not talking about God

Marx's explanation of Class's in a capitalist society can easily be proven by simple observation

The individual working at the Means of Production is a Worker and the Individual owning the Means of the Production and extracting profit from the enterprise is a capitalist

You can clearly observe this

>>93135

And are these classes mutually exclusive? No, can't be, I can work my own shit. Are anyone only part of one class? Yes, a slave or a criminal could be, but that's not accepted within a laissez-faire society, and is a necessary component of communism. Is the relationship between these classes inherently exploitative? No, voluntary exchange (in this case labour vs currency) is great.

>>93071

Great argument, you are very much not butthurt

>>93173

Not an argument, just an observation

I don't waste arguments on faggots

>>93151

>And are these classes mutually exclusive? No, can't be, I can work my own shit.

Self Employment is clearly in the working class category to the point you employ another laborer to Labor for you

>Are anyone only part of one class?

Yes?

If you work solely for a wage and dont profiteer off anyone else's Labor you are simply working class

while the opposite rings for a member of the Capitalist class

>Yes, a slave or a criminal could be, but that's not accepted within a laissez-faire society, and is a necessary component of communism.

Lost in Translation

Re-Iterate

>Is the relationship between these classes inherently exploitative? No,

Yes

the Capitalist class profits off of the Labor of a Working class

>voluntary exchange (in this case labour vs currency) is great.

Voluntary exchange is largely a myth

With the exception of the occasional Luxury commodity the Vast majority of purchases people make they make because it's Basically Mandatory to purchase these things to live in Society (Car / Home / Phone / Internet connection / food etc)

>>93258

>Self Employment is clearly in the working class category to the point you employ another laborer to Labor for you

>freelance stockbrokers are working class

Please keep talking, you embarass yourself further with every word.

>>93259

>freelance stockbrokers are working class

speculation on the Labor of others is clear capitalist exploitation

i dont see whats hard to understand about that

>>93258

You're confusing me on what constitutes the means of production. I presumed it was basically commie-slang for producer's goods. So, what is it? Is land a means of production? Is labour? Is time? Are capital goods?

>>93306

Formally, it's just capital goods, but the person you're talking to's other posts suggest they're more of a party communist, and those folks are… wierd.

Land (standard, not economic use) is a capital good, courtesy of a bunch of plants, mostly. "Land" in its economic use is a substrate (iron, palladium, etc) which changes form, but cannot be created or destroyed.

In theory, universal access to unlimited capital goods would maximize the changing of form, and hence, the creation of wealth…

>>93306

No goods are not the Means of production

The Means of production are the Means by which a good or commodity is produced

<A car factory is the Means of Producing Cars

>>93306

Means of productions are tools with which something is made, don't bother asking commies, because they all subscribe to their own specific special snowflake versions of communism, each with their own vocabulary for you to learn. Why bother?

>>93349

>I'm economically illiterate, so I'll just call corporations government and pretend I'm a smart big-brained alt-centrist.

>>93360

Hippity Hoppety it's All Government Property…

>>93343

>Means of productions are tools with which something is made,

This is a more fitting definition but one must include tools used for extraction of resources

>>93306

As other anon said, means of production are just capital goods without things that operate independently so that commies can lie about "control of means of production". Other than that, anyone owning at least a screwdriveror just bare hands is "owning means of production" even according to their stupid rhetoric.

>>93372

>anyone owning at least a screwdriver or just bare hands

We usually cut it off at the screwdriver. All open access to your bare hands will create is bukkake porn.

>>93372

>means of production are just capital goods

No they are the tools that allow the production of Commodities

>so that commies can lie about "control of means of production"

How is it a lie to put the the individuals who toil on the MoP to be put in power over them such as in the case of USSR / DDR / DPRK etc?

>Other than that, anyone owning at least a screwdriver just bare hands is "owning means of production

No. as a single Screwdriver and Bare Hands are not used universally for the Production of Commodities

>>93375

>No they are the tools that allow the production of Commodities

So capital goods.

>How is it a lie to put the the individuals who toil on the MoP to be put in power over them such as in the case of USSR / DDR / DPRK etc?

By putting in power people that will no longer toil on them and control those who do.

>No. as a single Screwdriver and Bare Hands are not used universally for the Production of Commodities

Appeal to popularity. They can be used to produce commodities, it's just they aren't expensive and important enough for your kind to steal.

>>93379

> it's just they aren't expensive and important enough for your kind to steal.

Did you miss that bit about bukkake porn?

TBH, it's pretty easily arguable that a screwdriver misused as an awl is more accurately a capital good than a screwdriver as a screwdriver. Nothing changes form, after all.

>>93379

>By putting in power people that will no longer toil on them and control those who do.

No the Working class is given power over state and economy in a socialist society

As i have pointed out Numerous times Bureaucrats in a socialist society do not Profit from the Means of Production

And Workplace Democracy of varying degrees is implemented in socialist states (The DPRK is a good Modern example of a Socialist economy with Workplace democracy elements) which allow the workers at enterprises direct say in the Managing of the enterprise

>Appeal to popularity. They can be used to produce commodities,

Yes at the point that they are used to do that they become a means of Production

>>93423

>synonyms are synonyms

Wierd, huh? But don't worry, on account of your penchant for authoritarianism, YOU get the Stalinism!

>>93037

>I wouldn't be an employee all my life. I'd be a small business owner with a small family.

It's not really that unrealistic, anon. Maybe besides the wife and child. Maybe not none of us, but in general we're not looking to get rich. Just leave us alone and save us the helicopter fuel expenses. They're not cheap to ride, you know.

>>93314

But there are many factors that go into production, not just capital goods as you seem to think. Time is necessarily a factpr of production, and is thus a part of the means needed to produce something. Sone degree of labour is, as well, though the process may be fully automated when it has been put into use. Land (i.e non-durable goods) is needed to produce any good, as all economic processes are made with the present expectation of future consumption.

>>93423

>>93601

Cont.

This is clearly differentiated from a Liberal Democracy as a Liberal Democracy inherently benifited and is controlled by the capitalist class

>>93601

>Socialists are against Democracy XD

The flag probably makes him think of single party Communist dictatorship regimes. Besides, there is no Democracy in CENTRAL planning. You should understand at least a little bit why someone would think you're against it.

>>93132

Class is subjective not objective.