/k/ - Weapons

>>678226

>Lessons for next time?

Genocide the jew, don't just deport him.

Show zero empathy towards enemy civilians

Bombard cities down to dust, including schools and hospitals

Execute PoWs so that you don't have to feed them or waste men guarding them

Avoid urban combat. Bombard the entire city to extinction instead. Nuke the place if you must.

1. No internal dispute between command and individual generals (THIS IS THE KEY).

2. Better coordination with allies for an unified goal (EITHER USSR or China, cannot be both).

3. Avoid slowing down, speed and maneuver, speed and maneuver. Never settle down and let the enemy attack you.

>>678231

>Never settle down and let the enemy attack you

How exactly do you do that in russia?

>>678226

>And have a Japan pull a pincer move.

Stop with this meme. For Japan to actually attack USSR during or after Barbarossa, it'd need to basically sacrifice itself for Germany, which it obviously had no reason to do. Japan in 1941 was bogged down in China and running out of resources. Things were so bad that Japan pulled Pearl Harbor – not because they were so thirsty for yankee blood, but because they hoped to get enough resources from the colonies to fuel the China war. And you suggest they'd add attacking USSR to the list – an assured defeat for Japan, as it'd crumble even faster than IRL due to having another massive front that needs even more resources, which Japan just didn't have.

The only hope Japan had of actually winning WW2 was Hitler defeating USSR as quickly as possible and then brokering peace with the allies, where Japan would get to keep the colonies and engage in trade without being raped by embargoes everywhere (and hopefully get traded resources from the now at peace germany) so that it could deal with China. Any other plan would basically guarantee Japanese defeat. The possibility of a pincer attack was off the table after Japan fully commited to China, and it did so before Hitler or Germany were in any way relevant to Japanese interests (hell, if anything, Germany seemed to be an enemy given how long they supported Chinks), ergo the possibility of "coordination" between the two at that time is pure fanfiction territory.

>>678232

Constantly moving.

When the enemy attacks, retreats. When the enemy stands till, attack.

>>678233

Well, either Japan sacrifices itself so that Germany can win, and thus Japan can have a chance of winning.

Or they don't and they lose immediately after Germany loses.

The only way Japan can stand against China is to have a land connection between Germany and Japan through Russia.

>>678235

Or just shoot the fucking ambassador who refused Chiang Kai-Shek's offer to recognize Manchukuo/Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere and join the ACI Pact before the meeting.

>>678238

That's quite going a far back.

Anyway, there WAS a faction in Imperial Japan that was favored on attacking Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Way_Faction

>The Kōdōha envisioned a return to an idealized pre-industrialized, pre-westernized Japan, in which the state was to be purged of corrupt bureaucrats, opportunistic politicians, and greedy zaibatsu capitalists. The state would be run directly by Emperor Hirohito in a "Shōwa Restoration" assisted by the military. Domestically, the state would return to the traditional values of Japan, and externally, war with the Soviet Union was not only unavoidable, but necessary to eliminate the threat posed by communism.[2] In a news conference in September 1932, Araki first mentioned the word "Kōdōha" ("The Imperial Way"), from which his movement received its popular name.

This is the whole point of the Jap Army venture in manchuko either ways.

>>678239

>Hokushin-ron (北進論, "Northern Expansion Doctrine" or "Northern Road") was a pre-World War II political doctrine of the Empire of Japan which stated that Manchuria and Siberia were Japan's sphere of interest and that the potential value to Japan for economic and territorial expansion in those areas was greater than elsewhere. Its supporters were sometimes called the Strike North Group. It enjoyed wide support within the Imperial Japanese Army during the interwar period, but was abandoned in 1939 after military defeat on the Mongolian front at the Battles of Khalkhin Gol (known in Japan as the Nomonhan incident) and the signing of Soviet–Japanese Neutrality Pact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokushin-ron

>>678226

>Lessons for next time?

Don't declare war on the two most powerful nations on Earth at the same time.

>>678241

>bong

>implying they didn't declare war/prepare for war first

They should have had strategic bombers, maybe then such abhorrent posts could be preemptively aborted.

>>678242

I wonder what would happen if the germans had really finished the british army in Dunkirk, would that sheer loss force the brits back to the bargaining table?

>>678245

Well, with the brits surrending, no base for americans to fly their planes from, no Africa campaign.

The germans can consolidate on western Europe in general and go straight for Egypt and get the various oil there.

I think the brits actually hold the keys for german victory since their worldwide network is what kept Germany from getting resources and supplied.

The USSR, while strong, is only a regional power and they can only commit to one front.

>>678243

>america and the USSR declared war on Germany first

This is a new level of wehraboo autism

>>678245

I doubt Britain would just give up after BEF is destroyed, Britain's leadership was determined to see the war through no matter what the public thought, who would be a lot less enthusiastic for the war after such a disaster and that may fuck over Britain in the long run but it would take time for some kind coup or revolt that has a chance of success

>niggercum dreams

If anything, losing the BEF might speed that up as the Anglos would look to replace their losses as quickly as possible any bring in more troops from their colonies, especially as the public becomes more unruly

Tell the Brits to eat shit and kill your faggot president.

FDR was a fucking cunt.

>>678226

>When bombing Britain, go for all targets possible instead of just military.

The Luftwaffe didn't have the airpower to do that especially when half needed to be dedicated to Barbarossa. He should have gone for the military installations, Britain was already desperate and only got away with a victory by effectively funneling the entire RAF against every attack using their advanced radar. The bombing of major cities was a wasteful reprisal in reponse to British efforts doing the same in Germany.

>>678256

>European (including burgermutts)

Stop kidding yourself.

>>678226

>Brits broke german code early

<Change code, maneuvers and activity is now a mystery

>Battle of britain, Hitler has already exhausted what existed of his navy fighting against denmark/norway? and cannot openly contend with the navy

<Naval bombers n shit? Failing that, bring the railway guns and bunker busters from Germany into France and blow the shit out of infrastructure and shit in england. Slowly rebuild navy with Navy buster ships, whilst simultaneously bombing the shit out of British navy, and wearing down Enemy fighters. Install fuckton of AA near the british channel/the sea to achieve naval/air supremacy so you can eventually work towards landing paratroopers in England.

>Stalingrad

<When an opportunity to pull out arises PULL OUT so you don't end up losing an entire army

<Fortify ground taken and take the defensive in the brutal Russian winter.

<Cut off enemy logistics if possible whilst ensuring to maintain your own. Fall back if necessary in order to ensure the frontline is tight, well secured, and impenetrable. If you withdraw, establish scorched earth policy against enemy. Do not put German officer who hates slavs in charge of eastern front and do not let soviet soldiers in German uniforms commit atrocities against Russians. Expect no mercy from USSR, so give none in return.

<Summer, attack, hoping that Japan can intercede in the east if not already preoccupied by american forces

>Germany has resource problems which directly conflict with the necessity to have high resources for their expensive heavy tanks

<Steamroll through greece into Iraq to capture oil fields/consider cutting through india into USSR. Can now attack USSR on two fronts OR you've just allowed them to do so. Either way, be wary of USSR zergs and let them throw themselves at your defences if need be. Essentially turtle up, and don't blitzkrieg unless the enemy gives you an opportunity to do so.

>The enemy has vast naval superiority and the only ones who can really combat this atm on the axis are the japanese

>Give the japanese and italian navies (lol) air support whilst rebuilding your own navy

>Isolate britain if possible, end goal should be after naval/air superiority has been achieved perhaps to land paratroopers in cornwall/south of london, fortify these positions and deny access to british soldiers overseas. Allocate divisions stationed near france and spain to intercede

>Forgive debt owed from nationalist spain, allowing them to enter the war in earnest and fuck with the british in Gibraltar This should also be a concern regardless since Gibraltar locks down Italy's navy in the Mediterranean. If you can't get through to Gibraltar the old fashioned way, paratroop your guys in and capture it.

>Sources: History and Hearts of iron 4.

>>678284

>Hearts of Iron 4

Wanna play it in multiplayer?

>>678285

Yes. At some point definitely. Had some fun games in the past playing modern times games in Africa and dominating as Ghadaffi. I'd have to clear my schedule though but perhaps a thread should be made soon to get people on board with it. I'd be cool playing Germany, Japan, Italy, Britain (I would go fascist of course).

>>678235

No, that's pure nonsense. Germany absolutely would not invest itself to fight the chinks. It would have nothing to gain from doing that and it wouldn't be a popular move, given the already war exhausted public. At most, Hitler would send some material aid. Also, "land connection through russia"? That was never even a possibility. Soviets would never accept a peace that'd result in their complete annexation, and even if they did, Siberian infrastructure would easily be destroyed through partisans, and render any possibility of Germany transferring troops there moot.

>>678239

>>678240

The northern road became impossible the moment Japan invested in China. As I mentioned above. They only reason Japan even contemplated it was the massive underestimation of Soviet military forces (common at the time) and had they actually decided to attack USSR without Germany attacking it first (prior to 1939 when northern road was officially abandoned), they'd get curbstomped. By the time Hitler actually attacked USSR, northern road was dead and buried.

>>678284

>>678285

>>678288

>memes of iron 4

I hope both of you choke, playing that ahistorical piece of shit. If you want a proper game in the period (that is both historical AND massively better than piece of shit 4), play Darkest Hour

I think the biggest lessons for next time (after we end up nuking ourselves hopefully) is to never accept deals from jews, kill or refuse and jews coming into your land, kicking out any existing jews, and never giving women any form of political or social control outside from taking care of your home and children.

>>678290

>I hope both of you choke, playing that ahistorical piece of shit

Rude. And what if I play it for the alternative history mods? You are right though, HoI3 is much more accurate and much more harder.

>>678226

Just don't think that you can achieve your dreams in one go, instead try to play the long game over generations. E.g. Germans could have choose to do nothing during the phoney war (other than forifying the borders) and wait until the public in France and Britain get bored of it and elect some commies who promise free gibs. The other possibiliy is that the Anglo-French alliance decides to attack Norway and Sweden, and then I'm sure that both of them would side with the Germans, along with Denmark. That could be the starting point of a propaganda war that could lead to the Benelux states siding with them too, so that they can avoid getting attacked by the democrators. And it would be a lot harder to sell this conflict to the burgers as the ebul gnadzees conquering Yurop (not impossible, mind you, just harder). Meanwhile Stalin would be waiting for those imberialisds to start killing each other properly, and so the soviets would keep building shitty tanks to attack once the conflict is over. I think this would stabilize Europe in a Cold War due to the unwillingness of either side to risk a proper conflict and the axis could gain the upper hand as they have the time to properly militarize their societies and economies.

>>678299

Now, today in a similar conflict you'd just have to wair until the average demizen of da free wurld is either a moslem nigger or a homosexual mulatto, and just watch their world crumble as they simply don't have a population that can maintain a modern country with a strong army.

>>678298

>And what if I play it for the alternative history mods?

Then you still have shit taste. The game itself is complete garbage. Play Darkest Hour.

>>678226

>Unified command structure between nations, clear cooperation and goals.

>Unified command structure between the men of one's own nation, clear cooperation and strictly defined goals and objectives.

<Enact a proactive strategic tech development plan early on with strict goals, a set number of projects with clearly defined HR allotments and a small number of fallback slots for reactive projects.

<Build as many aircraft carriers and submarines as possible, remove battleships.

<Do invest in meme projects but never more than 2 at a time, cancel them early on if they don't work out and shuffle resources elsewhere.

>Never fight more enemies than you absolutely need to.

<Attack Britain hard with a focus on C&C and general military infrastructure, then soften up everything else in preparation for Unternehmen Seelöwe. Avoid civilian casualties and tell the Italians to entertain colonial Anglos in the mediterranean with no need for victory.

<If Seelöwe succeeds and the Anglo surrenders, go for the mediterranean. If Seelöwe fails, go for the mediterranean and by proxy, north Africa even harder.

>Bring friends, but don't bully them.

<Gas everything on your way to the Suez, let Spain and Greece decide for themselves.

<Take Gibraltar after that, either by having Spain join and remove Anglos, Gibraltar being declared a DMZ as part of an Anglo-German peace agreement or a simple paratrooper assault.

<Offer Japan to engage Soviets in a three-way attack with Germany attacking from Europe+Iraq/Iran if the enemy has yet to capture the latter and Japan attacking from Manchuria and perhaps Sakhalin if the madmen are up for it.

<If the Soviets are planning an attack, let them attack for diplomatic publicity purposes.

<When fighting Soviets, aim for defensive battles with inflated enemy casualty rates. Don't take territory you can't hold.

<Cut off lend-lease deliveries to enemy troops to the best of your ability, shadow American supply convoys but don't fire at them unless they fire at you.

That should at least buy the Reich enough time to get a good number of Me 262s up and running on the West European coasts and/or build a carrier fleet capable of at least slowing down the USN should America choose to declare war.

>>678226

>>Unified command structure between nations, clear cooperation and goals.

There used to be Anti-comintern, 防共協定

>Retards playing armchair-generals.

>>678290

Nigger, you don't even make sense. Manchuko is literally right next to Russia.

All the jap army needs to do is consolidating in Manchuko and retreating from Shanghai.

>>678318

It's like I'm talking to a fucking wall. Do you not understand the concept of opening a new front? Do you not comprehend that in order to fight, you need both soldiers and supplies? When did I ever imply Manchukuo wasn't next to Russia?

>>678317

fun ist verbotten

t. kolonel snitzelwurst

>>678338

There is nothing to stop Japan retreating from China, issue a ceasefire with Chiang and strike the USSR.

>>678241

This. Pearl Harbour and the the Ultimatum to Metaxas were mistakes.

Don't pick fights with every industrial powerhouse in the world.

>>678251

>The Vancouver Sun, 23rd of April 1940

WAR TO DEATH AGAINST ALL GERMAN PEOPLE!!!

<A retired admiral announces at a private club that he is angry about the annexation of Austria and Czechoslovakia!

Wow, that was convincing.

>Daily Express Article, 24th of March 1933

JEWS OF THE WORLD DECLARE WAR

<Israel is boycotting German goods and has called for Jews around the world to join them.

That one was even in bold text as the subtitle, so you've no excuse for misrepresenting it. Or did you just not read the images you posted?

>>678284

<tl;dr - HoI4: fun game, crap history.

>Naval bombers

I don't think you understand just how completely outclassed the Kriegsmarine was during WW2. I don't remember the precise numbers but I'm pretty sure that the Royal Navy Home Fleet (i.e. just the detachments that were assigned to defend the UK) was larger than the German and Italian navies combined.

>Hope Japan can intercede in the East (of Russia)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokushin-ron

Yeah, the Japs tried that, got badly beaten on land, were happy to sign a Jap-Soviet neutrality treaty, and decided it wasn't worth the losses to take a second shot at invading the Soviets. That was why they focused on the resources that could be gained from the Pacific islands.

>Turtle up

Aside from the fact that Greece is a shitty place to occupy (widely distributed population, and too many islands/mountainous areas for insurgents to hide in) the reason Germany focused so hard on expanding was lack of resources - particularly fuel. Turtling up would have lead to just lead to their industry running dry that much quicker, even without the bombing campaigns.

>Forgive debt owed from nationalist Spain

Churchill basically bribed Franco to stay out of the war. After that went through Spain were perfectly happy to sit down and watch from the sideline and the Axis didn't have anywhere near enough money to spare to change that. The Mediterranean naval war was lost for Germany & Italy from the start. Britain controlled the only two routes in and out (Gibraltar and the Suez Canal), the Regia Marina was too small and out of date to threaten the Royal Navy's Mediterranean Fleet (to the point where their own admirals were convinced they couldn't win), they were unable to capture Malta; and after the RN air arm sank or took half of their fleet out of action at the battle of Taranto they weren't even in much of a position to harry the logistical convoys headed to North Africa.

>>678395

Or, at the very least, if you are going to pick a fight with the three major powers of the day then try to make sure that your allies aren't Weeb Autists and in the sort of shape Italy was in at that point.

>>678398

All Japan needs to do is to fight and get the attention of Soviet force.

They can lose, but that's exactly beneficial to the German's war effort.

A two-pincer movement can go back and forth, back and forth.

>>678240

>>678239

>>678290

>The northern road became impossible

Northern road was always impossible.

The parts of Siberia that actually have easily accessible natural resources are largely half a world away from Japan.

Sure there are some in southern Yakutia that Japan may have been to secure and hold but most of the Siberian wealth are the eastern uralic plains that is both at a considerable distance from China, much closer to western Russia and, even then, properly populated by Russians.

It would have been simpler to commit to invade Australia early on.

Also Khalkhyn Gol battles proved that the Kwantung Army had a dreadful understanding of maneuver warfare and gear so bad even Russians third rater with post WWI tankettes and really shitty gear, could crush them without effort. And it showed when the brand new Chi-Ha were somewhat worse than BT-7 (at least the BT-7 was stupid fast) in 1939, ended up encountering IS-3 in 1945…

Japanese armies were still largely a WWI army, that moved on foot and used a lot of horses while the soviet army, while barely drilled and being led by the most incompetent officer corps in the history of mankind, was an almost entirely motorized army.

Which in the immense plains of Siberia, is not to be dismissed.

>>678417

And Japan needs to do is to lose and get the attention of the Eastern Soviet army.

Any force they tie up is a force that will not be used on the germans.

>>678394

>pearl harbour

Love it, the US was literally offering the japs free oil and fuel if they stopped attacking everyone, and the japs' response was to start attacking more people. Hapa rage on an international scale.

>>678427

Pearl Harbor was due to the American blocking Japan though.

Fucking sanctions.

>>678226

>Stop wasting precious wartime resources on increasingly impractical wunderwaffen. Stop letting politicians meddle with procurement in general.

>Standardize fucking everything. Standardize ammunition and guns across branches wherever possible, stop developing entirely new guns when sticking the old guns on a new mount would work just as well, and just fucking shoot the guy who thought using two 105mm turrets with different traverse rates on the same ship was a good idea.

>Germany's naval procurement was fucked at every level. They had no coherent doctrine, the politicians in charge of procurement kept setting wildly unrealistic requirements, and the design bureau itself was a madhouse for reasons I won't get into here. The first two problems are fixable, but the design bureau would need to be rebuilt from scratch. In the interim, maybe Germany could have outsourced the design stage to allied firms and then built them locally.

>Actually test your equipment for reliability, and design said equipment so that it can be easily repaired in the field when it does fail. This should all go without saying, but the Germans somehow managed to fuck it up.

>Before you launch an invasion, actually do some research on your enemy's terrain and infrastructure. If your main enemy is known for their shitty roads, cold winters and long mud season, then it would be wise to actually design all your equipment to handle cold and mud.

>Don't open a second front when the first front is nowhere near victory. Don't ally with retards who provoke neutral superpowers for no good reason.

This is all for Germany, mind you. Japan had their own problems and Italy was doomed from the start.

>>678226

It would be nice to join in confederated Red maple leaf, Brit, Straya, Kiwi, Yank and Afrikaner nation.

Honestly The thing that lost Hitler the war was Finland being way to fucking good during the Winter War

Finland crushing the soviets gave the idea to Hitler that the Soviets were weak as fuck and he could fuck them up, had Finland remained more of a stalemate in that war then Hitler would of swept the west without caring about USSR

>>678444

Honestly I bet had Hitler considered this, he might of been able to get Australia or at least South Australia on his side since Australia was a bit pissy at Britain just before the war, and South Australia was basically a german speaking state at that point Its only post war when German became shunned that they stopped, same with Minnesoda in the US

>>678226

>hitler worshipper

I didnt even need to look at the flag to know its some americunt (hiding behind a proxy is even more pathetic)

>>678455

What is the serb problem with Hitler anyhow?

>>678226

When you have a large part of the entirety of the enemy's army surrounded, don't let them evacuate. Kill them, take them prisoner, it doesn't matter. Just don't let them return.

>>678459

A junkie who employed blacks, muslims and arabs in his quest to genocide white europeans, claimed multiple times that Christianity is a disease and that Europe would be a better place if Franks lost the Battle of Tours and arabs islamized everyone. His post-war plan for Europe was even more insane, they planned to build huge dams in Med to drain all the water and merge Europe and Africa into a "supercontinent" so they could have both the natural resources and cheap labour and lets not forget that European Union is basicly copypasted idea of Hitlers "economic plan" for post-war Europe aswell.

>>678459

Balkan conflict was bad mojo for everyone involved. There will have to be a Herculean effort to make amends.

>>678406

You forget that after the humiliating defeats in Mongolia the Jap army was barely even the second arm of their military. After the IJN got clearance for its 'Southern path' expansion policy none of the politicians or senior military officers in government would listen to a plan that didn't involve aircraft carriers and cruisers.

>BUT GERMANY COULD HAVE FORCED THEM TO DO IT!

As Germany wasn't able to stop them attacking Pearl Harbour and bringing the burgers into the war I doubt it. Italy may have been Hitler's bitch, but Japan looks like it was barely even allied with the Germans.

>>678444

An Anglosphere(+Afrikaner) alliance would still be god-tier. Shame that it's only in the people's interest.

>>678462

Blame Goering, and Hitler for listening to him.

>>678284

>fortify holdings in Russia and go defensive

But like muh Deep Battle 'n sheeeit

>>678465

>His post-war plan for Europe was even more insane, they planned to build huge dams in Med to drain all the water and merge Europe and Africa into a "supercontinent" so they could have both the natural resources and cheap labour and lets not forget that European Union is basicly copypasted idea of Hitlers "economic plan" for post-war Europe aswell.

Proof?

>>678467

>You forget that after the humiliating defeats in Mongolia the Jap army was barely even the second arm of their military.

This is the entire problem here.

The thing is, with future foreknowledge, we know that even if the Imperial Army is weak, it can still divert forces from the Soviet Union or even bait them to do useless actions so that germans can make their gains.

>>678470

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantropa

>>678474

Reading that seriously, not a bad deal to be honest.

And no, Hitler didn't mean for the germans to mix with africans simply because he wants their resources.

>>678477

>Reading that seriously, not a bad deal to be honest

Dam projects sacrifice nature for $$$, look at China and you will see the effect it has on enviroment, he didnt plan for germans to mix with africans he planned for africans/arabs to replace all other non-germans as cheap labour.

>>678478

The thing with China is that their low technology and lack of morality is what destroying their nature.

I think a Reich dam that is properly maintained and check for environmental regulation would be different, especially the benefits it brings, both in energy AND resources.

>>678478

>he didnt plan for germans to mix with africans he planned for africans/arabs to replace all other non-germans as cheap labour.

Didn't read this in the article.

>>678398

>the reason Germany focused so hard on expanding was lack of resources - particularly fuel.

Wouldn't securing the mediterranean and its coasts have alleviated that to an extent?

How badly would an Axis-controlled Suez canal have hampered the British far east fleet?

>After the IJN got clearance for its 'Southern path' expansion policy none of the politicians or senior military officers in government would listen to a plan that didn't involve aircraft carriers and cruisers.

Then use those aircraft carriers and cruisers to conduct amphibious landings at Kamchatka or Vladivostok.

>>678482

>they didnt care about enviroment its simple as that

<The dudes that pioneered environmentalism as a national policy and openly denounced unregulated capitalism just cared about future profits

>planned to replace native europeans with africans/arabs

<The Coudenhove-Kalergi plan was actually Nazis

Ok retard.

>>678482

It seems you are raised on learning some pretty awful nazi propaganda because the National Socialist german care very much about their environment, unlike the US or the USSR.

>>678486

fuck off stormfag

>>678487

having few laws about the enviroment doesnt mean they actually give a shit, its like saying AOC cares about the enviroment because she wanted to push her Green new deal

>>678488

Like Germany having basically the best environment to live in and the infrastructure to support it (autobahn).

When Hitler says he cares, he actually cares. Not dumb shit about cow fart.

>>678471

I don't think Japan had the ability to keep that up for long enough to be worth it. They were an out of date, embarrassment, of an army that just didn't have the capabilities needed. If you went back to say 1920 and were given the power of the Japanese Emperor then maybe you could unfuck them, but that's getting retarded even for a hindsight thread.

>>678484

>Wouldn't securing the Mediterranean and its coasts have alleviated that to an extent?

Massively. Colossally. That's probably a won war in one move. The problem was, as already explained, neither the German nor Italian navy (not even both of them combined under a single competent command structure) had the ability to deliver on that. If you want to expand your premise to delivering modern missile cruisers to the Axis then that would change things, but again that's just getting silly.

>Then use those aircraft carriers and cruisers to conduct amphibious landings at Kamchatka or Vladivostok

Japan was expanding for resources, the resources it would get from Vladivostok & Kamchatka wouldn't be enough to cover the resources spent in securing them. Even if the IJN Marines were the literal gods of war the Japanese army would have been the main bulk of the push west and would have been just as useless there as they had been in Mongolia, at best hampering the push badly enough to turn it into a logistical clusterfuck that would have barely warranted a single Soviet division to clear them out.

I know this is going to be a tricky sell on 8chan of all places, but short of giving the Axis/Japs literal magic I don't think you could alter the outcome of WW2. Maybe you could drag it out and cause even more damage to every nation involved, but I don't think you could make any substantive change to the outcome.

>>678302

Which country would you advise to play with for a beginner and why?

>>678488

>wasting 488 digits on good goy speech

How does it feel to be presented as worse than Hitler for trying to protect your country by the (((very same people))) you died in droves to protect from the ebul gnatzees, greatest ally?

>>678459

It's hardcore post-communist denial like in Russia. Admitting that your country's and patriots' greatest sacrifice was used against you and that you fought heroically for the bad guys is a hard redpill to swallow, especially if you suffered half century of communism as a direct consequence of your "victory".

>>678499

Probably Germany. You'll get fucked by USSR later on, but it's a good way to learn the game.

>>678498

>modern missile cruisers

>short of giving the Axis/Japs literal magic

They could have get into this Wunderwaffe-'tism in the 30s and in a sensible way, and sink most of the Royal Navy in early 1940 with wire-guided missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_X

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kehl-Strasbourg_radio_control_link#Counter_Countermeasures

Mind you, I don't say that it's a foolproof method that works 100% of the time, but imagine what would have happened if they damage or sink every major Royal Navy vessel during the invasion of Norway and the Dunkirk evacuation.

>>678498

>I don't think you could alter the outcome of WW2

What's the earliest you would go back to try to set things on track for an axis victory?

>>678507

Probably towards the middle or end of WW1 and kill Lenin before the dumbass Kaiser shipped him out.

Preventing the Soviet Union from forming in the first place would help greatly.

>>678226

Next time we just nuke Britain and they will surrender or die, because they are basically in the same position as Japan in WW2 and can't take a beating of this magnitude as an Island Nation.

>>678510

Russia was getting industrialized with or without communism. It's more about preventing the URSS from fucking up american politics than the URSS itself.

>>678474

Atlantropa was the Project of Herman Sörgel. The highest office Herman Sörgel managed to reach in his live was being an Official Master builder for the Bavarian State.

He was never part of the government of the unified Reich under Hitler nor any of its institutions and he never got any support for his idea from the Nazi Party, their government or their institutions.

How in the fucking world does your fucking Untermenschen Propaganda turn this into Hitlers dream project for Post WW2 Europe?

>>678514

Probably the fact that you can't get today's "news" straight which implies events from 80 years ago are even more of a blur and (((fiction))).

>>678506

In my defence a nuke powered capital ship loaded to the gills with Exocets and SM2s guided by top of the line modern Radar would effectively be magic for the average engineer of the 1930's. and of course Germany had some interesting prototypes and concept pieces, but if they were close to entering full production/deployment then why wouldn't the program suffer the same treatment as the Uranprojekt?

>>678507

>What's the earliest you would go back to try to set things on track for an axis victory?

Probably before WWI, and the changes you'd make would radically alter the course of that war (or even whether or not it ever happened), and once you do that the situation and events that lead to WWII probably don't happen either (consider that Hitler's rise to power was almost entirely dependent on the economic shitshow of the Weimer administration, which wouldn't happen the same way). It's why hindsight threads like this usually devolve into ridiculous fanwank sessions pretty quickly.

>>678513

>It's more about preventing the URSS from fucking up american politics than the URSS itself.

But if your prevent the USSR from forming in the first place, then you wouldn't have the USSR fuckingg around your politics in the first place.

Industrialized Imperial Russia > USSR

>>678513

>>678522

>>678510

The proper course of action is to meet Marx and relentlessly mock and bully him while laughing at how buttblasted he gets whenever you make fun of his ideology.

>>678459

Not just ww2. Serbroach basically ignited the ww1 shitstprm.

They are like baste poles.

>>678482

>nazis planned to replace native europeans with africans/arabs, basicly for the same reasons European Union is importing so many of them today, cheap labour.

Another reason I felt no guilt shen our soylent Greens ordered the corpse of our air power to bomb these cockroaches to oblivion. The croats have always been better partners.

>>678234

What works for a group of farmers in the jungle doesn’t work for an entire army. How do you deal with supply lines and logistics if your troopers are constantly moving? How do you withdraw and retreat from an attack with almost no preparation and not lose huges amounts of equipment? How do you even arrange that sort of mobile warfare along an entire front without being easily baited into encirclements? How does the command structure work? How do you prevent the enemy from just walking past if you have no line established?

>>678498

>The problem was, as already explained, neither the German nor Italian navy (not even both of them combined under a single competent command structure) had the ability to deliver on that.

Even so Rommel got along pretty far with his undersupplied and undermanned Afrikakorps, an Axis offensive towards the Suez launched following the failed BoB with Barbarossa levels of Wehrmacht divisions and enough german high commanders to tard wrangle the Italians into shape could certainly at least have closed off the northern ends.

At that point Spain might very well feel confident in an Axis victory so as to close off the Gibraltar strait.

Anglos would then have to invest considerable resources into an invasion of Spain while their ships in the med are stuck without fuel or ports to dock in save for maybe Cyprus, Greece and Turkey assuming those haven't joined the Axis at that point.

Spain wouldn't be able to defeat the Anglo on their own but they could very well conduct gorilla warfare in the vast mountainside of the country in the likely event of an invasion.

If Iraq, Palestine and Jordan revolt against Anglo rule then Rommel could just shitpost himself over to the Atlantic coast and neuter Anglo attempts to recapture Gibraltar completely even if they capture the northern part of the Strait.

>>678527

Spain wouldn't go to war against Allies over Gibraltar alone. You need to remember that Spain just got out of a devastating civil war and that Franco didn't have an overwhelming support of the people like Hitler did. Even so, he did offer joining Axis, back before Barbarossa and when it looked like allies would surrender at any moment, the conditions being not just Gibraltar, but also Morocco. Hitler had full power to give Morocco to Franco, but he didn't, instead choosing to buddy up with the defeated France (a move he really should not have done; he gained nothing and lost Spain and, consequently, Gibraltar). Really, not handing Morocco over was one of the key decisions that let to Axis defeat. Had Spain joined, it would (probably with German support) be able to quickly take over Gibraltar. With Gibraltar blocked, suppling the rest of Mediterranean with supplies and troops would be much more challenging for the Allies, most likely allowing Axis to take Suez as well.

There won't be a next time because nukes.

>>678527

Rommel's work in North Africa was indeed impressive, considering the problems he was dealing with. I still think you're overestimating Spain's ability to help you out there though. Spain's industry, economy, infrastructure, and population were badly damaged by the civil war, even if Germany had promised Franco the entire African continent and a 100m tall statue of himself in Berlin they wouldn't have been able to contribute much to the war. Could Germany manage to supply arms, vehicles, aircraft, fuel, ships, food, ammunition, and other assorted supplies on a large enough scale to make Spain a credible or even just Italy tier member of the Axis powers?

The Wehrmacht did draw up plans to invade Gib, without Spanish cooperation, but it kept being held back by diplomatic problems until the units needed for it were sent east for Barbarossa. If you want to write a story where Germany becomes a Mary Sue tier character that can expect the universe itself to bend over backwards for it then don't let me stop you, just remember that it's (at best) no better than Hollywood movies claiming that the entirety of WWII lasted for the 24 hours the all American 'Sergeant America McSquarejaw' needed to paradrop into Hitlers volcano doom fortress and punch him in the face.

>>678542

Don't get your schnitzel in a twist g*rman see I can do it too :^) surface value it's just one of the more watered down autism simulators out there. You really get so brutally assparaged by the mere mention of this game? Why?

>>678290

Played Darkest Hour a bit today. On the surface, Apart from being more autistic, having different decisions take place and Major powers constantly trying and failing to steal my tech, how is it 'historical'? In fact, isn't that just the wrong term anyway because you're essentially creating an alternate history? I assume you just mean from an equipment/tech standpoint.

>>678398

>naval bombers

I suppose it was just a little variation on Operation Sea Lion anyway.

>Turtling up in greece

Why Greece? You go THROUGH greece because it's probably the only way by land from Germany to Iraq without going directly through Russia. You turtle to hold the oilfields/resources there. Also fuck Africa, pointless moshpit.

>Churchill basically bribed Franco to stay out of the war.

Sounds untrustworthy as fuck. Honestly not as well read as you on most of this stuff, but I think a lot of it depends on how far you want to go back.. If Hitler knew the british wanted war, and listened to his generals, crushed their forces at Dunkirk etc, didn't keep trying to make peace at the beginning pre-bomber harris, that could have changed much there and then. I know that Hitler never originally wanted a second war with Britain, but Churchill definitely wanted a second war with Germany.

>>678469

>muh Deep Battle 'n sheeeit

Excellent post.

>>678571

>Listening to his generals

Except Goering obviously. At Dunkirk at least.

>>678565

>Gibraltar

Meant to say the Spanish protectorate in Morocco.

>>678420

Except that's just wrong, again.

Despite popular beliefs, the soviet never touched the far east garrison.

Even in 1942, on the brink of total collapse, they still had 1.5M men and around 3000 tanks (well mostly prewar ones, but then it's not like japan had better shit), 10k artillery piece and 3000 planes in the Transbaikal and Siberian military districts. More than enough to hold the Japanese at bay around the Baikal choke with elastic defense.

Again the Japanese could have seized Sakhalin (some oil, don't know if it was exploited back then), Vladivostock area (Gold, Tungsten), possibly pushing towards Magadan (Coal) but they couldn't have been able to go much further than the Baikal shores before encountering massed opposition.

Out of curiosity would someone like me be one of the first to die just because of my looks?

I've been mistaken for a jew several times and even a jewish fraternity tried rushing me in college. Even took a (((genetic test))) and it came up as basically just european/nordic with 2% caucasus which my family is somewhat sure is from Turkey yet I am the only one with a big nose in my family yet im also the only one who isn't a cucked faggot.

>>678565

Didn't you just copy Zzeligowski's mutiny but applied it to Gibraltar?

>>678578

> Even took a (((genetic test)))

You should be roped for giving DNA to a company ran by people who took research of South African ethnic cleansing bioweapon after the fall of apartheid.

>>678580

yeah, I was young then and grew up in a no fun household. didn't know how deep it all went yet

>>678578

Big noses aren't exclusive to Jews, if you look at old prewar german photographs there are plenty of ethnic whites with what could reasonably be deemed a low level schnoz.

What matters more is the presence of any other signs of physical jewry in addition to the nose, such as large lower lips, protruding lower eyelids, curly hair and generally mismatched facial proportions that just don't look right.

>>678571

To take Gibraltar Germany would have needed to do one of two things.

>A) Go through Spain

That would definitely reignite the civil war and either turn into a quagmire that stops the Wehrmacht somewhere in Aragon or fucked with their logistics to the point that made an assault on a dug in defender (with oceanic resupply and a shitload of supplies already stockpiled) retarded and pointless. Even if Franco tried to help suppress the Republican and Commie forces that would be read as an act of support/allegiance to the Axis and would lead to heavy bombardment and probable invasion of Spain. Bad end either way.

>B) Naval landing

Even if we put the Kriegsmarines weak starting point and low strength in the Med, and the Royal Navy's dominance in the area, to one side search for a few photos of beaches in Gibraltar. You get maybe 50-75m of sand (which would be a landmine showroom if the defenders got more than 48 hours warning), and then a 200m tall vertical rock-face. At the top of that cliff you have the well dug in defenders with pre-sighted artillery, on site air support, and the aforementioned large stockpile of ammo and supplies. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want my name even vaguely associated with that operation if I heard about it before it kicked off.

Like I said earlier, give the Nazis a few battalions of actual wizards and anything is possible, but I don't think you can do much more than prolong the inevitable with less than that.

>>678571

>Operation Sea Lion

Do you mean Operation: Unworkable Pipe-dream?

>Go through Greece to Iraq, turtle in Iraq

and just wait until midnight for their supplies to pop in situ? If you can't control Greece/Turkey then your troops turtled up in Iraq are going to be facing down the Soviet hordes with empty bellies and empty rifles, good times.

>Churchill definitely wanted a second war with Germany.

That may well be true. But even if Churchill was stroking the kind of warboner that would Genghis Khan look like a pacifist how exactly did he bring that about as a back bench MP? I know there are a number of quotes that don't cast him in a great light, but it's a long way to go from that to 'he basically controlled the government from 1930 onwards'.

>>678589

>>678589

>>A) Go through Spain

>

>That would definitely reignite the civil war

That's wrong though.

>and either turn into a quagmire that stops the Wehrmacht somewhere in Aragon or fucked with their logistics to the point that made an assault on a dug in defender (with oceanic resupply and a shitload of supplies already stockpiled) retarded and pointless. Even if Franco tried to help suppress the Republican and Commie forces that would be read as an act of support/allegiance to the Axis and would lead to heavy bombardment and probable invasion of Spain. Bad end either way.

That's wrong though. How would the UK invade anything without their American masters?

>taking Gibraltar from Spain is impossible because I get butthurt thinking about it.

Ok, guess paratroopers and artillery and air power don't exist when they're used against britcucks.

>>678578

>Out of curiosity would someone like me be one of the first to die just because of my looks?

No, Hitler was an incel like you before he got into power and begun to swim in pussy.

>>678576

>Except that's just wrong, again.

Except you are wrong, again. Stalin moved tons of troops to the west once he was sure that the gooks wouldn't attack him from Manchuko. You also forgot that the bolshevists on the few occasions they fought the gooks always lost more men and material than the gooks while massively outnumbering and outgun them. Losing Vladivostok wouldn't be a huge blow, but it would still reduce the amount of lend-lease the soviet kikes got from their western brothers.

The real question is, who will win the next big conflict?

Outside of the jews

>>678589

>Gibraltar landing

See this is why the Kriegsmarine needed aircraft carriers and long-range strategic bombers.

Crater the runway with a few SC 1000 bombs launched from Amerika bombers, let carrier Stukas kill the artillery and then bring in multiple waves of Paratroopers to clean up and voila, no more Anglo boats going into the med until (((they))) start invading Spain for not allying against Hitler.

In hindsight my dumb shitpost >>678565 might really seem to be the best option as Brits would still retain control of the overseas territory of Gibraltar while Germany would gain control of the southern coast of the Gibraltar strait, thus achieving a perpetual blockade for either side's vessels until one of the opposing parties is removed.

>>678599

You do know that the IJA loved to send men into heroic charges into enemy MG positions on hills and didn't have much in the way of armored fighting vehicles that weren't one man paper boxes on treads?

>>678571

>how is it 'historical'? In fact, isn't that just the wrong term anyway because you're essentially creating an alternate history? I assume you just mean from an equipment/tech standpoint.

Well, aside from being more complicated than "Draw an arrow and clap :DDDD" and the AI not being thoroughly retarded, there is a decision system that has actual requirements rather than just "click button and wait to months to magically annex Austria" as well as events that both give the game actual flavour and are often triggered by current circumstances, offering different paths to solving them. In HoI4 you can fairly effortlessly cause a random country to switch is ideology, can, at the press of a button, go for ridiculous meme shit like reforming the fucking HRE during WW2, can't even properly wargame since everything is designed literally just for drawing arrows and letting the AI handle the actual fighting like a drooling retard, and get to play against a "clever" AI that can be beated just by sitting in fortified positions and watching as it endlessly charges them, until it runs out of manpower and you can just sweep in and crush it. Darkest Hour provides a more historical experience by:

1. not having absolutely retarded shit like reforming the HRE or Roman Empire or whatever have you (these paths were literally made for memes. They're there so that redditors clap)

2. has a wealth of historical flavour both in terms of events and decisions

3. has decisions actually require certain circumstances to take so that you can't just magically make shit happen like in HoI4

4. its events and decision more or less railroad you towards what historically happened, but while also giving you a chance to diverge. You can't get Hungary ot join the allies, but you can, for example, choose not to attack Yugoslavia or perform Sea Lion prior to Barbaroassa or any number of other shit. There's also a wealth of mods for more historical autism or more alternative scenarios, depending on what sort of game you want.

>You really get so brutally assparaged by the mere mention of this game? Why?

Because that game is not a fucking autism simulator, it's like calling Candy Crush a tactical game. It's a ridiculously casualised piece of shit to the point it basically plays itself, with most of its flavour being in the form of literal fucking memes. It has terrible mechanics, terrible AI, little flavour, and is inferior to Darkest Hour in practically every way, despite being its de facto sequel.

>>678589

C) give Franco his fucking Morocco so that Spain joins the axis

>>678609

>the IJA loved to send men into heroic charges into enemy MG positions on hills

Bayonet charges worked in China because chinks didn't have that many automatic weapons, and Japs were better trained in hand-to-hand combat. After years of fighting it became part of their doctrine, and so they used it against the burgers too. Once they figured out that all their island garrisons got themselves wiped out by charging the Yanks they changed the doctrine. Yes, their officers gladly wasted the lives of their men, and yes, they were fanatical enough to charge a machine gun nest, but they didn't do either of those it out of sheer incompetence.

>didn't have much in the way of armored fighting vehicles that weren't one man paper boxes on treads

Their tonks were acceptable by interwar standards, and worked against hordes of Chinese peasants with bolt action rifles well enough. They simply didn't keep up with the rapid development of new tanks in the other side of Eurasia because they were busy with said Chinese peasants, and the army looked at the war against the USA as a sideshow ran by the navy.

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/jap/ww2_IJN_Tanks.php

<that clip

You really shouldn't try to prove your point with a Worst Korean war movie.

>>678616

>C) give Franco his fucking Morocco so that Spain joins the axis

Would Anglos have invaded Spain if it had traded its Moroccan Protectorate with Germany in exchange for the entirety of French Morocco following the French surrender?

The Mediterranean would've been in a deadlock then.

>>678625

>and the army looked at the war against the USA as a sideshow ran by the navy.

There were a lot of things wrong with Nip military leadership prior and during the war.

>Their tonks were acceptable by interwar standards,

That they may have been, but what they shat out during the war after their interwar tanks got trashed by Burgers was plain unacceptable.

Any attack on the Soviet Union that wouldn't be a series of suicide charges would've necessitated at least one troop of german engineers, instructors, weeb interpreters and tank blueprints traveling to Japan via submarine thanks an Axis-controlled Suez so the Nips could start shitting out poor imitations of short-barreled Pz IIIs in time.

Without the US military bearing down on them and possibly Britain too depending on how it goes any reverse Nankings the IJA would then recieve from Soviets could at least get them off their asses and take Tank warfare seriously.

As for the issue of resources, send the IJN to Singapore and Indonesia to obtain Oil and bully Brits if they haven't surrendered yet.

>>678609

>See this is why the Kriegsmarine needed aircraft carriers

You had the two Graf Zeppelin carriers (12 Bf109, 30 Ju87 each), 2 Jade class carriers (12 Bf109, 12 Ju87 each), The Weser (10 Bf109, 10 Ju87), and at least 2 auxiliary carriers that were in production and only abandoned in the late war (34 Bf109, 28 Ju87 between them). That might not be the biggest air wing ever put together, but it's not bad for the 1940's K'marine.

If you look at the German plan for Seizing Gibraltar the air support was all supposed to take off from France and land in Spain to refuel before heading back to rearm in France. No idea why anyone thought that was a good idea, particularly as they were planning to use carrier friendly fighters and dive bombers.

The majority of the military facilities were dug in under the mountain too so apart from the runway and a few lucky hits on the shore defense guns you couldn't do much damage with naval bombardment even if you could keep the torpedo bombers away from the ships.

So with all the talk about how the IJA wasn't fit to challenge the Soviets on land, I decided to skim through a couple articles on the IJA/IJN rivalry to see if there was any definite point in which the IJA lost major influence. I figured that maybe, just maybe had they come out on top, the whole war with America thing would have fell through and they'd be better equipped to fight the Soviets. And then I found out just how fucking unstable the Japanese government was in the early 30's, with practically non-stop attempted coups

>May 15 incident

>Prime Minister Inukai Tsuyoshi was shot by eleven young naval officers

>The original assassination plan had included killing the English film star Charlie Chaplin

>Chaplin's murder would facilitate war with the U.S…and lead on to "restoration" in the name of the emperor

>a petition arrived at court containing over 350,000 signatures in blood, which had been signed by sympathizers around the country to plead for a lenient sentence

>the court also received a request from eleven youths in Niigata, asking that they be executed in place of the naval officers, and sending eleven severed fingers to the court as a gesture of their sincerity

>The punishment handed down by the court was extremely light, and there was little doubt in the Japanese press that the murderers of Prime Minister Inukai would be released in a couple of years, if not sooner

>>678565

>the British will be unlikely to invade poor Spain

I think you underestimate the Brits tendency to fuck over anyone if it meant improving their standing in the war.

>>678506

>FritX

Friendly reminder that Germany had developed wire-guided torpedo gliders in 19-fucking-15.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_torpedo_glider

>>678640

>Would Anglos have invaded Spain if it had traded its Moroccan Protectorate with Germany in exchange for the entirety of French Morocco following the French surrender?

Once Gibraltar fell, I don't think they'd bother. Portugal would have likely joined the Axis if Spain did, and the two of them could defend the Atlantic coast together at least. Brits were too hard pressed to conduct any big offensives of their own - they would focus on trying to hold Suez, at least, but you can bet the mediterranean would quickly become an Axis pond if Gibraltar got taken.

>As for the issue of resources, send the IJN to Singapore and Indonesia to obtain Oil and bully Brits if they haven't surrendered yet.

Indonesia was guaranteed by US. Japs didn't declare war on US just to take fucking Phillipines (which were sorta shit resource-wise anyway) but mainly to grab Dutch East Indies. Whether or not US would declare war if Japan only warred Brits is a question, but you need to consider that warring brits means opening the Burma front, and thus further stressing the situation in and around China. Singapore alone wouldn't be enough to offset that cost.

>>678647

Yeah, Japan government was a mess, which is why the army did whatever the fuck it wanted and basically started the war with China on its own.

>the whole war with America thing would have fell through and they'd be better equipped to fight the Soviets

Both of those things were set in stone the moment Japan got bogged down in China. Had Japan not warred China, or had Japan managed to beat China prior to 1941, Pearl Harbour wouldn't have happened and Japanese likely would have joined the attack on USSR.

>>678648

And a Hungarian engineer came up with cannon-launched ramjet projectiles in that same year:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Fon%C3%B3

>>678651

And so, all that needs to be done is going back to the early 20s, and stop the disastrous war between Japan and China.

It gets even worse when you realize Japan attacking Chiang is a boon to Mao.

>>678661

>20s

But Marco Polo Bridge was in 1937

>>678662

Have to go that far back so that you can actually GET the Kodoha faction in power proper and have the Army be the dominant faction in Japan's politics and not the Navy.

The Navy is to serve as the Army's bus, and not to direct the strategy of the entire nation.

>>678666

>could they have been a reasonable military ally for any party of the war?

Not particularly. I can't see them doing more than defending the coast. At most maybe some garisson duty in occupied France?

>It's already been mentioned that Franco was very likely to crash himself with no survivors if he'd willingly entered the war on the Axis side and that Spain would've needed a gorillion resources in order to even approach Italy levels of capability

Had Hitler agreed to his demands, he likely could have survived entering the war without much effort. After all, he'd be getting tons of good clay from France, as well as shitloads of resources from Germany to alleviate the post-war reconstruction. Given that everyone thought Brits were at the brink of defeat, it probably wouldn't be that unpopular a move.

>the English have to tie down considerable numbers of their troops, home fleet and general war materiel on Spanish shores

Which is why Brits wouldn't have invaded in the first place. They had enough on their plate already, with the aerial battles and defending Egypt. They wouldn't try to invade Spain since since it's not that important (save for Gibraltar, of course) and because as shit as Spanish army was, it could certainly hold any landing party long enough for Germany to move its forces there and crush the enemy. It's what Franco banked on, essentially – enter a war that seems like it won't involve him too much, and gain enough concessions to make it worth it.

Sadly, Hitler underestimated the brits and found Franco's demands too high, instead choosing not to piss off Frenchies any further (he wanted good relations with post-war France. Of course, that turned out to be a very wrong horse to bet on in the long run).

>>678671

Well fug.

So all that's needed to win against the British would be Spain joining the Axis or transferring their little Maroccan protectorate to Germany?

The disparate power balance between the UK and other European Axis navies could've been alleviated by simply moving all shipbuilding to the mediterranean after securing both Gibraltar and the Suez, with Oil coming from the Mideast and Egypt/Libya.

Seelöwe would've been possible and feasible with rear lines secured and fresh naval replenishments coming from Gibraltar amid a continous strategic bombing campaign wearing down the Brits' ability to adequately maintain their home fleet.

With Britain then gone either by military defeat or some peace treaty the Soviet Union would still be a difficult, but very much beatable enemy since the Axis wouldn't be spread out across multiple theatres fighting multiple enemies at the same time and its industry would be working at full capacity.

Even a Burger declaration of war wouldn't amount to much other than a failed Landing attempt on European shores, not to speak of the Axis naval buildup possibly making such an endeavour more costly than it needs to be.

As time goes on Axis Wunderwaffen would enter service and further deplete the US' chances of success in the European theatre, assuming they'd still want to get involved at that point.

Sadly Nippon would likely get fucked as it did IOTL though and could perhaps present a point of concern, particularly if the Kriegsmarine is retarded and wants to send newly-built carriers to help them out in the Pacific instead of deterring the USN in the Atlantic.

>>678677

>So all that's needed to win against the British would be Spain joining the Axis or transferring their little Maroccan protectorate to Germany?

He wanted a bit more than just Morocco (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meeting_at_Hendaye), but it boiled down to Franco wanting some French colonies + Gibraltar. In hindsight, a small price, but it didn't seem that way at the time, when the war seemed all but won. It's my opinion that if there was a single decision in WW2 that could have changed the war outcome, it was very probably this one.

>>678651

>Both of those things were set in stone the moment Japan got bogged down in China

To the best of my understanding, the Army wanted to seize resources Japan needed from the USSR, the Navy wanted to get them from the Dutch East Indies. Getting them from the DEI puts you in a vulnerable spot to be attacked by America, so they had to be knocked out. My point being, if the Army succeeds during the war with the USSR, the need to take the DEI vanishes and thus so does war with America, no?

>>678692

go back in time and hire oil prospectors to find the oil deposits in manchuria instead.

Let your generals fight the war because youre a faggot populist that doesnt know shit about anything other than giving a good speech. Do tgat addie and youll win next time. Well maybe youll get assassinated by a general but you wont be held up as a guilt trip to poz the west into annihilation.

>>678704

>Prussian nobility didn’t sabatouge the war effort

>le Generals meme word for word

Maybe if you were able to spell properly a single person might assume you actually have any knowledge of the war.

>>678719

When you lose faith in abhorrent Canadian shitposting, it won't take long before that faith in the bottomless pit of awfulness is truly restored. Thank you for your hard work.

>>678704

>>678721

>le based Moscow frontal assault

>Hortler didnt have anything to do with operations in France

>le based Abwehr, true nationalists xd

This is why muttposting exists, mutt.

>>678692

>To the best of my understanding, the Army wanted to seize resources Japan needed from the USSR, the Navy wanted to get them from the Dutch East Indies.

that was the long term plan, yes

>Getting them from the DEI puts you in a vulnerable spot to be attacked by America, so they had to be knocked out.

No, the reason for Pearl Harbor was that war with USA seemed inevitable should Japan war more places (especially Dutch East Indies or Brits), US rhetoric made it pretty clear (think current relationship US has with Iran, and now imagine Iran would, for example, declare war on Iraq. US intervention would be practically guaranteed). So Japan went for a preventive strike, anticipating US declaration of war.

>if the Army succeeds during the war with the USSR, the need to take the DEI vanishes and thus so does war with America, no?

But getting resources from Siberia is a long term thing. They'd need to build the infrastructure and everything to actually be able to get oil from there, something they just didn't have the time for while at war with China. Should they have attacked USSR before warring China (before 1937), it is pretty much guaranteed they'd just get stomped. USSR army was superior to Japanese, and they'd be on the defense – Japan's only hope to beat USSR would be if it attacked during Barbarossa, but by then they were bogged down in China.

>>678730

Really the biggest traitors were the faggots who decided that having 6 million meme projects running simultaneously with devs and engineers getting split and reassigned on a whim because the Kriegsmarine, Udet, Göring, Junkers etc. complained.

>>678734

>DEI

Couldn't the Reich have just handed the Dutch East Indies over to the Japanese first thing after capturing the Netherlands or would the Allies not have recognized any such territorial transfers, even with the Dutch government-in-exile not being fully established?

>>678721

>be el goblino

>make post that has no valid claims and doesn’t even reference a single battle/plan/offensive

>further make said post while being too lazy to add proper punctuation

>get called a retard

>sperg out and put in oxygen hoses so you don’t suffocate since your body already struggles to function at rest

>type out reply about how awful Canadian posting is and how your wretched low quality post wasn’t replied to with any quality

>lean back in your chair as the back moans under the immensity of the force it is trying to withhold

>smile in satisfaction as you order a pizza while your heart pains in protest to the prospect of even another gram of cholesterol lining your veins

>down your pills with a small bottle of pop to drown out the pain and look out your window at the concrete boxes dotting the image of the setting sun and feel immense pride in your nation, and the effort you placed into your post as one of the veins of your quadruple bypass catch a particle of cholesterol and creates another blockage while you drift into blackness with your city as the sun sets

>>678734

>No, the reason for Pearl Harbor was that war with USA seemed inevitable should Japan war more places

I’ve mentioned it in nearly every WWII thread with decent discussion about Japan but Harry White of the tribe manipulated the US demands to Japan which called for the complete withdrawal in China which considered Manchuria to be a part of China. At the time, Japanese withdrawal would have ruined the country economically so they refused, as they also had gained Manchuria in a different war and the Western Powers had no issue cutting up China a few decades earlier. For Japan to accept that demand would have meant a nationwide depression and reliance on some other nation for more resources than they already did. Also White was soviet spy so it would make sense he had sent the demands to force the Japanese into a war with America to entirely destroy any hope of the IJA attacking the USSR. Further he was quite good friends with Morgenthau (the tribesman who created a selfnamed plan to destroy Germany and the Germans, which FDR had read and supposedly had personal support for). I remember someone saying the US had intentionally stalled and drug out negotiations with Japan for quite some time, though I don’t know if that was independent provocation from White’s plan.

>but by then they were bogged down in China.

What would the chances be for a Nationalist China and Japanese alliance to fight against Mao’s communists and the USSR be? I have no knowledge of the relationship between Chiang-Kai Shek and Japan at the time, though someone in this thread had mentioned he offered to recognize Japanese Manchuria. Would concessions be needed from Shek or would Japanese conquest of Mongolia and Siberia be enough to placate them and leave any further action in China alone? If a Nationalist China joined the Coprosperity Sphere would they help attack the Brits to regain Hong Kong?

>>678735

>or would the Allies not have recognized any such territorial transfers

At that point I find it hard to see the allies recognizing any German diplomacy let alone more map redrawing.

>>678757

>Nationalist China allying with Japan

While it sounds nice insofar as Japan wouldn't have to bog itself down when not at war with the Allies, China was still in a rather absolute state as far as "great" powers went at the time.

They wouldn't have been able to do much against Reds other than send hordes of peasants to their death and would probably have demanded a great deal of Industrial goods from the mentally and physically superior Nipponese, but a war with China and Japan would also bog down the Soviets on a fuckhueg front in the far east which is something they might not want to readily afford what with Germans crashing everything on the way to Moscow.

Still a meme tier idea considering that Nips took removal of China as an Empire very seriously and that the Nationalist Chink Government was full of Commie traitors who at one point even kidnapped Chiang Kai-Shek because he didn't want to enact armament plans for war against the Japanese.

It might be possible if Nips never seized Manchuria in the first place and would promise Hong Kong and other western-occupied Areas of China to Chiang if he buddied up with them, perhaps some territory in Mongolia following a theoretical Soviet defeat would also help.

>>678771

What should be done is a ceasefire between the national chinks and Japan, so that the chinks can focus on Mao and Japan can focus on the USSR.

>>678775

>ceasefire between the national chinks and Japan

That would just get Chiang-kai Shek disappeared under mysterious circumstances, with some goytoy twink commie puppet taking his place and continuing the war against the filthy imperialist j*panese rape empire.

>>678233

How about just don't ally with Japan and don't provoke Russia? Japan would have still gone after the US, but the US wouldn't have ended up giving a shit about Europe. Germany also had a non-aggression pact with the USSR that they violated when they invaded. I get that they did it for oil but they could have just concentrated more on the middle east, seems easier than taking on a major power.

Not saying this with any authority on the matter though, I'm curious what a real historian would make of it.

>>678599

>No, Hitler was an incel like you before he got into power and begun to swim in pussy.

Stop forcing that meme, no incel develops great social skills.

>>678788

>Germany also had a non-aggression pact with the USSR

And before that they had a pact about not allying with Soviets/Comintern at all

>>678735

>Couldn't the Reich have just handed the Dutch East Indies over to the Japanese first thing after capturing the Netherlands

Dutch government fled into exile, thus Dutch East Indies were sort of still at war with Germany. The Reich couldn't give things that it did not have.

>>678757

>What would the chances be for a Nationalist China and Japanese alliance to fight against Mao’s communists and the USSR be?

Very slim. Japan had been bullying China for a good while, China was incredibly asspained over Manchuria, especially with Pu Yi insisting he is the rightful ruler of all China, Japs hated Chinks far more than soviets (as did chinks hate nips) and Nat. China didn't really have much of a reason to do so. It could squash Mao on its own, had the war not happened, and while they would theoretically be interested in grabbing mongolia and tannu tuva, neither is really important, especially when there were much more pressing concerns of warlord states. On the other hand, they had a a ton of reasons to be pissy with Japan.

>How about just don't ally with Japan and don't provoke Russia?

Well, it's a big question what would have happened in this case. Some claim that USSR would just militarize further and unfuck its command, and then invade Germany with considerably better troops than they had in 1941. Others say that is not the case and that had hitler just taken out Brits and fortified the eastern border, nothing would have happened. Difficult to predict exactly what would have happened.

>>678771

Ah thanks, I figured it was getting into sperg aut-history territory, both as I said I’m rather ignorant of Japanese Chinese relations of the 20-30’s as well as China in general during that time. Any good book recommendations?

>>678788

>Japan would have still gone after the US, but the US wouldn't have ended up giving a shit about Europe.

Well seeing as the US had already been supplying any-and-everyone who said a single bad word about Hitler, as well as declaring basically all of the Western European coast American water interests and attacking German shipping well before war was declared as well as sending expeditionary forces and advisors, it should be offensively obvious the U.S.A. wasn’t not going to get involved in an official widespread capacity.

>Germany also had a non-aggression pact with the USSR that they violated when they invaded.

The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was signed after the anti-Comintern pact. It was more of a safeguard for Hitler than an actual non-agression pact. Remember: the Bolsheviks and communists were Hitler’s greatest enemy. He wanted to wipe out Jewish communism more than democracy, as far as I understand Hitler didn’t care that the other Euro nation’s were democracy, he just saw it as a weak system of stagnation and corruption and felt it wasn’t in the German character to be under such a system. The non-aggression pact, and to a greater extent the redrawing of the Baltics and Eastern Europe, was more of a safeguard to prevent the allies from opposing Hitler’s claims in Poland as they would have to declare war on both the soviets and the Reich of they wanted to uphold national sovereignty. Of course we know that wasn’t an actual goal of the allies and Stalin’s sudden ‘disorganization’, requiring more weeks to prepare for an invasion of eastern Poland, once the Germans were already ready to launch their offensive really skewed his hope that he could at least plead a case of allied hypocrisy if the soviets followed through and invaded simultaneously. It was never intended, by either party, to be an actual non-aggression pact, in any form expect officially.

>seems easier than taking on a major power.

Hindsight is 20/20. Not a single nation felt the Soviets were a “major power” until after WWII. It’s been said to death, but the soviets failed to beat the Freikorps in the Baltics in the late 10’s without getting British and French help both in aid and direct military help, and even then the underequipped and politically abandoned Freikorps managed to mostly hold their own. The soviets then failed to defeat Poland (who the Germans had beaten in the an unofficial capacity again directly supplied and supported by the French and English during the upper Silesian uprisings) in the 20’s and then further hadn’t been able to beat the Finns who basically had no airforce or armoured divisions and were obscenely undersupplied while also having recently purged the officer corp and appointed political loyalists in their place. When you look at it from the perspective of the 30’s and 40’s the soviets had basically failed to defeat any serious resistance, had little experienced leadership, had lost to the Poles who the Germans crushed, had lost to the Kaiserreich who hadn’t defeated France who had just lost in ~6 weeks to the 3rd Reich while boasting the most powerful army on the planet at the time. Not to mentioned both British and American intelligence gave the soviets a year at the best, more likely only months to withstand a German invasion. They were not a major power until after the War, to claim that Germany (or anyone) knew of soviet potential to deplete German lead stores while simultaneously building a meat wall is nothing but hindsight.

>>678790

Hitler was a volcel chad, look at the videos of women screening and crying over just getting a look at his immaculate moustache and hair, while he just looks on without interest past the Stacy hoards. Moist holes didn’t concern him unless attached to pure qt waifus who would love him unconditionally and move to Argentina with die for him.

>>678806

>Japs hated Chinks far more than soviets (as did chinks hate nips)

Ah I forgot about Asian hatred for every other type of Asian. Do you know anything about Japanese occupation zones? We’re locals complicit and indifferent from Colonial rule? I know they were allowed a degree of self rule and autonomy under the Nipponese Empire but did any occupied areas commit to the Japanese war or resist to any mentionable degree?

double post sage

>>678808

>Do you know anything about Japanese occupation zones? We’re locals complicit and indifferent from Colonial rule?

Depends on which zones you have in mind. Colonial subjects tended to be cautiously optimistic about Japan invading, hoping they'd get independence, but when Nips just announced they're the new colonial governor (and, allegedly, performed warcrimes and labour camps etc.), it just pissed them even more. That being said, they didn't do much about it. Chinks, on the other hand, really hated Japs, despite attempts by Japan at mollifying them through a puppet state.

>>678226

Lesson for next time:

Don't start a world war by getting greedy with land.

>>678599

>Stalin moved tons of troops to the west once he was sure that the gooks wouldn't attack him from Manchuko.

No he didn't, what he did was raise the population and organize fresh units from there and ship them west as there was no need for a reserve in the East, but the garrison stayed the same with largely no changes in size and equipment from 1937 to 1944-45 (when they repatriated all those units and used them to invade Manchuko) which gives a false impression of sending the "eastern troops" when it's really the "eastern reserves", that were assembled, got the fresh gear out of the trans-uralic factories and got shipped west.

But the amount of troops present in the Eastern part of Russia did NOT really change from the probing attacks of the Japanese early in the war (of which the soviets were really worried) to spring 1945 (were it swelled).

>Losing Vladivostok wouldn't be a huge blow, but it would still reduce the amount of lend-lease the soviet kikes got from their western brothers.

Well duh. And capturing Murmansk would have been 10 times better.

But then if germans were smart instead of autistic we wouldn't be calling you germans.

The reality is that neither Hitler nor the OKW ever came up with a strategy to win the war.

Even something basic as cutting off major supply lines didn't occur to them.

The Japanese could have walked into Vladivostok anytime.

The Finns try to urge the Germans to mount an actual offensive toward Murmansk (that was barely defended, especially the railway going out of Murmansk was a few kilometers from the finns lines).

But nope let's build an entire submarine fleet, entire gigantic submarine pens to host said submarines, to try to slightly slow the flow supplies going into those two (and basically only) ports.

>>678814

>murmansk

wouldn't USSR just use Arkhangelsk instead if Murmansk got taken?

>>678817

Arkhangelsk is frozen most of the year. Murmansk isn't.

>>678807

>involved in an official widespread capacity

True, but how supportive was the American public of the Allies before pearl harbor? What if Germany sided with China instead of Japan and declared war on them? Not that they'd do much in terms of engaging on the pacific front other than supplying China, but it would give the "enemy of my enemy" excuse to American isolationists.

>>678817

Germany obsession with Archangelsk comes from the fact that most of their intel on Russia was pre-WWI knowledge.

Murmansk was a new city built during WWI and basically immediately supplanted most of the Archangelsk traffic in a few years. Of course the arctic convoys ships went all the way to Archangelsk because from there they could ship anywhere via river barges, so it's listed as their "terminus" (escorts typically stopped near Murmansk and ships dispersed to various ports) but the bigger parts of the supplies were always Murmansk.

That's how unprepared to invade Russia Germany was… they didn't even know which city was the major northern port.

Cut Murmansk and Vladivostok and maybe 1/3 of the lend-lease supplies would make it (1/4 from Astrakhan and maybe 10% from Archangelsk).

>>678788

>Franco closes off Gibraltar in Summer of 1940 by accepting a 20-year German lease on the Spanish Moroccon protectorate in exchange for their debts from the civil war being wiped

>Germans begin the Battle of Britain by autistically bombing anything that resembles a radar tower day and night

>they also start a hueg offensive with Italy towards the Suez canal and the greater mideast

>Rommel reaches the Suez canal half a year later, Royal Navy cucked out of the Med completely

>Arab revolts in Palestine and elsewhere crash the Anglo mideastern colonial empire faster than anticipated, by April of 1941 the Reich stretches all the way to Basra

>By this point the RAF no longer has any radars operational in southeastern England and is deteriorating rapidly with manpower shortages and Stukas fucking up infrastructure at will

>counteroffensives are costly as hell due to the channel swarming with german hunter-killer squadrons and most Spitfires being allocated for interception duties

>an invasion of Spain is considered multiple times but shelved in order to preserve naval superiority near the homeland, as increasing Italo-german submarine raids and the deployment of Axis aircraft carriers are occupying the attention of the Royal Navy

>Instead, a landing at Morocco is put into practice with the intent of counter-blockading Gibraltar

>Bongs land and move towards the german protectorate, with Spanish troops not putting up too much of a fight

>there they are met with Rommel's main forces and two Italian aircraft carrier conversions

>rather than defeating the landed Anglos Rommel keeps conceding small amounts of territory while inflicting catastrophic casualties in return 80 years later users of obscure Image bulletin boards claim that not getting out of Morocco right away set the stage for the fall of the UK

>meanwhile the bulk of the home fleet now also comprising most of the South Atlantic and Western Atlantic fleets, who've been cut down to meme levels so as to shore up defenses at home following the loss of the med fleet mobilizes towards the Atlantic to deal with the gradually multiplying Axis aircraft carriers who've been eating into British supply convoys like mad

>they manage to sink one and cripple the other back to the med, but then the Kriegsmarine is seen heading towards Scotland from Norway

>the smaller North sea RN fleet intercepts the detachment

>they encounter a few outdated cruisers and some destroyers carrying landing craft dummies

>while the RN is busy up north Unternehmen Seelöwe starts for real in the channel strait

>25 divisions worth of landing craft set sail for the cliffs of Dover, escorted by hordes of Luftwaffe planes

>the RN Home/Atlantic fleet is still returning home from dealing with the Italians as the North sea fleet mobilizes only to encounter the Graf Zeppelin aircraft carrier, which had been thought to still be undergoing an autistic refit in some baltic german port

>the Graf Zeppelin launches fucking everything to protect the german landing fleet, including the Hs 117 MCLOS SAM

>its aircraft manage to sink and/or remove the combat capability of some 14 RN vessels including the HMS Invincible in a heroic feat of autism before the Graf Zeppelin runs into a torpedo and dies

>the crippled Northern RN fleet eventually reaches the channel strait but by that point the city of Dover and nearby airfields have already fallen into german hands

>german rotorcraft are constantly dropping off supplies at those airfields to get the cratered runways up and running

>the Anglo home troops fight honourably but they've suffered too many losses to german strategic bombing, the RAF has no presence over the channel strait and rear line transport infrastructure is a mess so they can't drive off the high morale german troops, at least the civilians have been evacuated farther north where the food supply is more secure

>the remainder of the Northern fleet is sunk completely by Fritz X glide bombs as the Atlantic fleet finally returns to port from their engagement with the Italians

>Me 264 formations bombard Plymouth harbor as Hastings and Gillingham fall and Britain's supply issues worsen, with the UK being entirely dependent on American supplies they can't even adequately deliver to the front lines

>A desperate Royal Navy starts to recall several fleet detachments from India as germans reach the fiercely defended outskirts of London

>RN ships are stuck in port without adequate fuel supplies because the railway network is fugged, the RAF a shadow of its former self and the army taking it in the ass all around while those goddamn pastaniggers keep shitting small escort carriers out of the med some of which are actually converted out of Royal Navy ships seized during the capture of Cyprus to further insult the Anglo

rate my althist greentexting.

>>678832

>rate my althist greentexting.

retarded, autistic, and remarkably pro-Soviet. If you prefer to think of it as 'very German' then that means basically the same thing.

>>678839

Don't see where it's pro-Soviet, m8.

I think he's tackling the right and present danger, without Britain helping, the germans can consolidate western Europe.

The Soviet can kvetch in Russia but that's literally all they can do.

A war where they literally invade Eastern Europe and THEN Western Europe would be literally too much for them, especially if Japan is posit behind their back.

>>678839

>>678841

It's not so much pro-Soviet as just plain germ- retarded.

Once they backstabbed the french navy the british navy had total supremacy in the Mediterranean thus they were happily sinking Italian and German supplies struggling to reach North Africa very small ports.

Rommel REFUSED additional troops because he was struggling supplying what he had but even long before that Italy was basically out of fuel making it barely possible for their navy to do anything but hide in the Adriatic or the Taranto Gulf.

The only reason there even still was fighting in 1941-1942 in the Mediterranean is pure dumb luck. British Force K (and some Italian ships… pure dumb luck) got caught into a into a drifting minefield and spent a year in repairs, meanwhile the Italians managed (basically the same day) to sink two battleship in a frogmen raid.

That left the middle Mediterranean virtually empty of British for a bit under a year.

Now of course the Axis could never exploit that… because they didn't have the fuel for the Italian Navy to actually do something important like leveling Gibraltar or raiding Alexandria, all they could do was supply North Africa largely unhindered.

Also the idea of Spain capturing Gibraltar is ridiculous.

Even today I'm betting on Gibraltarian police VS Spanish Leo2.

Spain spent 3 years fighting antifa level of retards.

>>678843

I take the Italians didn't use coal in their ships then. But I thought ships back then were deliberately using barely refined oil that was cheap and useless in internal combustion engines. They couldn't supply their navy with shitty bunker oil?

>>678844

They imported most of their coal too… from Germany of course. Except there is a gigamountain chain in between them called the alps.

So how did the German coal used to go to Italy?

By ships…

Italy was woefully unprepared for war despite clamoring for it for 20 years.

>>678846

>So how did the German coal used to go to Italy?

>by ships

Really? Austria was also part of the Reich and there is a land border between Austria and Italy, surely there must have been a railway line somewhere to Italy, surely.

>>678846

>Italy was woefully unprepared for war despite clamoring for it for 20 years.

How is it that Mussolini and the Italians accomplished so little in the interwar period?

double post sage

>>678847

Seeing as the pastaniggers annexed Südtirol just 20 years earlier I’d imagine there would still have been infrastructure linking that region to Austria proper or Salzburg.

>>678848

I think a big issue was that they modernized their army in the early 20’s and lacked the industrial capacity to do any sudden large scale manufacturing, whereas Germany modernized their army right before and leading into the war, with their tanks and mechanized divisions even being quite lacking during the invasion of France.

>>678730

This is why you lost the war and Russia raped half your women.

>>678851

>Seeing as the pastaniggers annexed Südtirol just 20 years earlier I’d imagine there would still have been infrastructure linking that region to Austria proper or Salzburg.

Yes and no.

That's how they were able to annex half of Tyrol… during WWI, no reinforcements could be send there easily so the Italians advanced fairly quickly (and got stopped when reaching critical passes).

There was a few railways and roads but they were completely inadequate, of course both sides quickly tried to upgraded it but it was nowhere near enough, meaning even with rationing Italy was getting maybe 1/10th of their pre-war fuel and 1/5 of their pre-war coal (they actually engaged into accounting schemes to make it look as if they had even less than what they had to force Germany to send more).

>>678848

>How is it that Mussolini and the Italians accomplished so little in the interwar period?

Italy is a lazy Japan. They have essentially no energy resources and shitty oil from Albania was the best they could think about. That's for the structural issue.

Then you have to understand that Italians are furiously incompetent when it comes to warfare, I mean Italy remains the only European "power" that was beaten in a war by spear chugging niggers (and their "modern army", almost lost a second time with a retarded 2/3 casualties ratio italians/nogs).

Their attempt at taking Nice in France (started only as the french had clearly lost against Germany and there was virtually no troops there) was stopped by literally 9 guys.

>>678841

>Don't see where it's pro-Soviet

while he's faffing about with inefficient and unreliable wunderwaffe and conducting a campaign that would only work 1 time for every 100'000 times you tried it the Soviets just sent another thousand T-34's and a quarter of a million unwashed Gopniks to the border preparing for their push west. I'm interested that ITT nobody explored the idea of Germany even trying to bring Britain and France (maybe the US as well eventually) into a joint invasion of the USSR.

>>678888

>I'm interested that ITT nobody explored the idea of Germany even trying to bring Britain and France (maybe the US as well eventually) into a joint invasion of the USSR.

They tried, but the frogs and bongs kept on behaving like women (ignoring the question instead of just saying no).

>>678888

France can support manpower and supply, Brit can blockade some western USSR ports, but the biggest player in an USSR invasion is Germany and Japan.

If you can get that pincer movement in gear, USSR is finished.

>>678900

The German push failed for logistical reasons and retard tier intel and planning going in. With the British and French empires working together with Germany the industrial & resource problems disappear, you'd also get massive logistical support to both fronts as well. The manpower boost you'd get to the invasion would be colossal as well, and with a joint command structure you have other (less retarded) intelligence at the table, and the ability to shoot down Hitlers dumber plans. The only thing it wouldn't fix is the winter and the mud, which would be a huge factor even with everything else you add with the new allies. To deal with that you'd probably need several years, maybe a decade or more, to bring all combatants armed forces up to spec in terms of engineering, equipment, and the mens capabilities. I'm not sure if that's practical, but without it the Soviet-war would be a long, bloody, campaign that would probably rank up with WWI in terms of casualties and cost.

>>678901

Which is why I favor the pincer movement.

The things with the russians is that EVERY wars against a superior force, they retreat East to nurture the wounds then wait then consolidate and re-attack. The poles in the 17-18th century, the swedes, Napoleon, Hitler…

If you have both forces attacking both the east and west, which deny the facility, manpower and resources for the Soviet, it's over.

>>678901

I don't know frog, with the speed of the Germans in 41, with superior logistics and resources provided by the UK and Britain, others and no lend lease, it would be over quickly.

You'd almost call it… NATO.

I think this goes for the modern age as well. Without foreign imports to fuel themself they're done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_grain_robbery

>>678905

Woops, UK and France*

>>678905

Well, anyone who plays Heart of Iron know that it's ridiculously easy as long as you do it properly, so yeah.

inb4 it's a game, doofus

>>678901

If Ghandi overthrew the British colonial administration, joined the Axis and went to war with Communist Party of China would it have changed anything?

>>678916

No, because Ghandi was a literal street shitter who thought India needed to get rid of all western technology and industry and go back to living in mud hut villages. Besides he was a pacifist so he wouldn’t overthrow anything.

>>678928

>. Besides he was a pacifist

He was a jew pacifist espousing

>it's not violence/rape when we do it :^) also go lie in the train tracks to abuse the fact anglo will stop instead of turning you into paste

>>678928

What would happen to the British colonial empire anyway should the UK itself fall?

Would the US just annex everything through some free British puppet government?

>>678888

>nobody explored the idea of Germany even trying to bring Britain and France (maybe the US as well eventually) into a joint invasion of the USSR.

Because it's nonsense. France was socialist as hell between the wars, Brits were massively more interested in containing Germany than fighting communism, and USA wasn't going to break its isolationism over something that essentially didn't concern them at the time. Besides that, none of those countries wanted a war - it's why Hitler got away with taking Austria, Bohemia, and Memel and why he could wipe his ass with the Versailles treaty.

>>678950

There was a window to act morally superior with France and turn the whole thing 180°.

Blame the British for everything, the defeat which can be explained by the British commander running away against orders + the Belgian king refusing to have a proper integrated command before the war, then surrendering alone + the Dunkirk thing where British soldiers did open fire on french soldiers + the British attack against the french fleet.

Partition Belgium and give France the french speaking area (and a secret accord to do the same with Switzerland, including giving the italian+romansche speaking part to Italy to placate them).

Show that Germany wouldn't do what was done to it, was magnanimous and blame the "Versailles diktat" entirely on the British (((bankers))).

At the very least this would have set France to be "neutral/friendly" like Sweden or Spain allowing the colossal french industry and colonies to supply Germany and Japan (French were never hostile to Japan, actually tried to keep them in the previous French/British/Japanese Asiatic alliance that lasted up the mid 1920's).

And if UK tried to snag the french colonies (which they definitely would have), the french wouldn't had any other response than declaring war to UK.

Instead, the Germans decided to enslave most of the french POWs and youths and occupy half of France. Robbing them of manpower (someone had to do the occupation), workforce (as slavery productivity is always terribly low), imports (as most french where prisoners or STO, french industry was virtually wipe-out), fighting power, etc… and of course fostering unrest at all levels (even within Vichy high circles people were scheming to discretely rearm and stockpile supplies with the goal to revolt).

Also french socialists hatred for commies isn't anything new, France is the home of non-Marxist socialism (which back in the days was called "republicanism" or "radicalism". It's largely dead today but it wasn't back then).

All socialists voted for Petain exceptional powers.

So yeah finding a way to keep defeated France whole, even just as a neutral party would have been considerably smarter strategically, at the very least it would have helped with a considerable amount of macro-logistical issues. While at best France could have easily sent two or three army groups to fight the commies while the German expedition + colonial french troops + Italian colonial troops in Africa would have had no problem defeating the British.

Hell Italians + French had the numbers to defend east Africa and thus blockading the red sea.

But of course since their only goal in life was NOT to fight the commies but to humiliate France this is science-fiction.

>>678955

>Partitioning Switzerland

I don't think that would've gone well for either party.

>>678960

>implying anything makes sense anymore in clownworld

>implying the answer isn't to go into a 'nam-era drug binge, flip the fuck out, and shoot everything around you except this time everyone flips out

>>678905

>You'd almost call it… NATO

>What could have been.jpg

F

>>678942

As part of our deal with the US for lend/lease Churchill gave them military bases in most colonies. He thought that this was the ultimate safeguard against what looked like Britains inevitable destruction - that way rather than the Axis quietly annexing The Empire it would have become a series of US protectorates (remember that the US was, at least in theory, a neutral power at this time). If Britain had fallen it's likely that there would have been a government in exile set up in Canada (furthest place away from the combat) and that the colonies that didn't recognise that government would have become America's property.

>>678962

Pretty sure that clown world is a relatively recent phenomenon. This might just be me, but the world still made some kind of sense in the '40s.

>>678956

They didn't have to do it. Just say "if we take over Switzerland, that's what we will do".

>>678960

I clearly stated that this is science fiction. Germans are just a bunch of repressed, bitter autistic children that can never admit that the reason why they always lose is precisely because that's what they are.

They never cared about fighting communists, THEY ALLIED WITH THEM.

Strategic plans for fighting started and stopped with the invasion of France and Poland, that had "stolen" German lands and should be "punished" for their sin against Great Germany.

>Yeah but what about England? You know the scariest superpower of the three you want to wage war upon?

<It's gonna bow in awe of the might of Germany.

That right there was the whole plan for the 1939 war upon the "empire where the sun never sets".

>What about the US? Or Russia? You know the two countries that almost systemically sided with the french? Can we really trust Stalin not to attack us right at the worse moment? Or that the US won't find an excuse to intervene exactly like last time?

<*Cricket noises*

That's the german "genius" in WWII ladies and gentlemen. Complete and utter lack of vision due to bitterness and fit of autistic screech.

>>678964

>He thought that this was the ultimate safeguard against what looked like Britains inevitable destruction

Tbh if Britain fell, Hitler could simply ignore the rest of allies entirely. They couldn't do shit to Germany since they'd be too far, the colonies had little industrial power, and if left alone long enough, the colonies would probably explode with separatist movements, as their overlord would be reduced to a shell of its power. That's not to mention british troops wouldn't be exactly in high spirits and would likely clamour for some peace settlement so that they could go back to England instead of shitting themselves to death in Sudan or wherever. The whole "we will keep on fighting even if we lose Britain" was just posturing and propaganda – brits wouldn't have been able to keep fighting if they lost it and all Hitler would need to do is sit and wait.

>>678977

>>678977

>>678955

>>678977

<put niggers in Europe first and completely humiliated entire people

<massive back breaking demands that you were so happy about

<they put you back in your place as nigger breeders

>Da Germans started the cycle of hate :(

Whats up, Ali?

But I think you might be a mutt larping in a French flag, consider how muttmerica has been put down the toilet here this year.

The Japs didn't need to go to war with the Soviets to make a difference. All they needed to do was militarize the Manchukuo-Soviet border and entrench. The Kwatung Army stationed in the country was in the millions. The first German stall outside of Moscow was only pushed back and stabilized after the Japanese-Soviet non-aggression pact signed shortly before Zhukov's armies were moved west-wards. Had the Japanese simply showed force in the region it would delay, hinder or stop the massive movements of Soviet arms west. It would be a gamble, sure, but the Soviet Army of 1939 was not the Soviet Army that overran Manchukuo in 1945. The gamble would have paid off either way, as if the Soviets didn't move, the Germans would have a much easier time and potentially be able to capture Moscow, splitting the logistical web of the USSR in half, and had the Soviets began moving the Japanese would have had basically free reign over an invasion plus justification for invading (as they were signatories of the Anti-Comintern Pact). Had the Soviets hit the Japanese positions then you'd have a pretty epic war but one the Japanese could have potentially held out long enough for Soviet surrender or pulling out after Moscow fell and SHTF mode engaged. Had the Soviets only pulled out a portion of the troops then the Japanese could have declared war and have a fairly easy time defending Manchukuo, but even if they did not the Germans would have had a much easier time in the west.

>>678984

>Says that germans are autistic screeching children.

>Screech autisticly like a child to disprove it.

Thank you.

>>678981

Except there was no plans for Britain "to fall". There was a vague idea that if you could bomb them and sink their ships with subs maybe they would call for a ceasefire… which isn't an actual plan.

Except if you're not an autistic child you stop and think for 2 seconds and wonder what happens next?

You look at British history and what happened last time someone united continental Europe.

And realize that defeat NEVER STOPPED BRITAIN, every single time they sued for peace they SYSTEMATICALLY declared war again once they had enough preparation/more favorable conditions.

Until they won.

So even if by some magical event Britain had asked for a white peace (which was what the Germans were offering), they would have declared war to Germany again within a couple of years. Right after Pearl Harbor and Stalingrad.

The British fleets would have had plenty of time to repair and modernize, the new equipment production to compensate the loss at Dunkirk would have been compensated, etc…

Hell without having to suffer constant German attacks distracting the fleets and airforces they would have wiped any possibly for the Italians and especially the Japanese to threatens their colonies.

If anything a pause of two years in the war would have guaranteed the Commonwealth would only have come back considerably stronger.

That's how you can tell it's completely autistic.

Even if it worked on paper, in the world with real humans in it, it wouldn't have worked.

>>679000

This is all I was saying. All it takes is for the japs to divert the attention of the Soviet and prevent the re-mobilization of Zhukov back to the West.

The Czech was saying Japan was committed to China thus they can't do shit, that's fucking wrong since the kwantung army sits on their ass since 1939 to 1945 without doing jackshit.

>>679008

So it looks like the extermination of anglos was the only real answer after all.

and keeping french faggots in the pen

>>679008

Provided Britain actually does surrender, and Germany moves in to occupy Britain the same way they occupy France.

What happens?

>>679014

No the real answer was taking half of Poland, which roughly restored Germany to it's historical size, secure Scandinavia which made Germany the biggest and bestest country of Europe with plenty of resources (while importing oil and rubber via the neutral Netherlands) and sue France and UK (that were completely incapable of attacking) for peace.

That would have meant either UK and France had to attack Germany (and be completely crushed on the siegfried line due to force disparity and as Belgium and the Netherlands were insisting in staying neutral) which would have made fall their governments or them signing a peace treaty after having declared war for Poland and just sit on their asses (so a complete humiliation), which would have been guarantee to make fall their governments too.

And given the political currents you would have had either pro-german taking power or civil wars with commies.

And THEN you made a very large anti-communist pact.

But yeah having an actual plan to make sure Britain was hurt enough to not come back to bite you in the ass instead of wishful thinking would also have been an option.

I PRAY IN THE HOLY SPIRIT WITH THE POWER OF JESUS ALL EVIL ENTITIES, SERVERS, SCRIPT, CODE, AI, ARCHONS, HEX, STANS, DEMONS, SPIRITS, PORTALS, GATEWAYS, WORMHOLES, LOOKING GLASS, SPELLS, MANIFESTING WILL BE DESTROYED………

>>678977

>try to wipe Germany off the map after WWII

>humiliate and destroy the nation with demands even the *nglos considered extreme

>be extremely hostile to Germany after

>rape and plunder your way through the Rheinland with your baste nigger and Arab slaves

>help Bolsheviks to slaughter Baltic Germans (Brits did too)

>help poles with upper Silesia uprisings to kill more Germans

>support Bavarian separatism want to divide up the country

>kevetch when Germany elects a nationalist leader who doesn’t follow your retarded treaty

>kevetch when Germany takes back control of its industrial powerhouse and threaten war for occupying its own land

>whine when two German countries agree to unify

Oy vey, why didn’t the Germans ally with us? We wanted to be friends!

>>679046

How is Germany, a land power, going to do that to Britain, an island with the biggest fleet on the planet?

What possible reason they would have to sign an unconditional surrender?

Nukes is what it took for Japan, it wouldn't take less for Britain.

Besides WMD, invasion is the only way. Which means you need to get rid of their fleet first. Which was an option for the US (that was vomiting ships faster than the nips could sink them)… but for Germany???

>>679054

>What possible reason they would have to sign an unconditional surrender?

Is it possible to use the army at Dunkirk and use them as emotional hostages?

If you don't unconditionally surrender, we will kill them?

I don't think the brit population is that insane to see their soldiers/children getting killed for nothing.

>>679050

>Look at me I'm projecting.

You would have an argument if it wasn't Germany that always come crying every time they're defeated by picking on people that ARE stronger than them.

>B-but there are several of you REEEE.

Well if you weren't a total sperg maybe you would have friends.

>>679057

Also, Trojan horse.

The german army will escort the brit army at dunkirk home.

>>679057

>Is it possible to use the army at Dunkirk and use them as emotional hostages?

No British soldiers were professionals.

And they weren't caught at Dunkirk why? because even from a small harbor the massive British fleet could still secure a small patch of land for a time to evacuate it's soldiers and barrage anything coming too close.

It's a catch 21.

>>679062

I still don't think offshore bombardment can stop a combined arms land attack.

Just literal smash in and capture them all, the brits were sitting ducks in Dunkirk, letting them leave is a massive waste of resources.

>>678226

>Lessons for next time?

get rid of mentally ill leaders

>>679058

>You would have an argument if it wasn't Germany that always come crying every time they're defeated by picking on people that ARE stronger than them.

That’s not even remotely what I was getting at, learn to reading comprehension frog. I was stating that French antagonism towards Germany and Germans after the war really didn’t indicate that you would have accepted any alliance as you said they would readily do. I was merely pointing out your transgressions against Germany that would further prevent any alliance since you seemed quite happy to fuck them over because you got so butthurt by Friedrich the Great’s individual peace treaties and 1970-71.

>Well if you weren't a total sperg maybe you would have friends.

Again completely irrelevant to what I was stating, yet more Euro countries were allied or friendly to the Third Reich than to your globohomo-lite alliance. Most of the countries that joined you only did so because they were invaded and not because they had a prior preference to the A*glo-F*ench nigger Empire. And here I thought Québécois were an extreme minority of French who just had crippling autism and faggotry that were deported to this barren land, yet it seems they are just the average Frenchman. No wonder Paris is such a shithole. Ethnic hatred aside any good cities in France to visit? I really didn’t like Paris last time I was there too many niggers, prostitutes and tourists and too much trash laying around, I was thinking Straßburg or Metz but I think an actual French city rather than a German city would be neat. My French is abhorrent so preferably a place used to A*glophones.

>>679062

Well the Luftwaffe was also far too overextended to carry out a proper attack on the retreating forces. Military History Visulized made a video on how even if the Reich wanted to, it would be quite difficult for them to actually wipe out the BEF at Dunkirk. Unless he is partial or biased which I have never gotten the sense of.

>>679072

You’re right, too many traitors and fags supposed to lead armies/government positions that betrayed their country for literally no gain just because they didn’t like the current state. FDR was a pretty good example for your side, as was Churchill and numerous German commanders. Even the ones that meant well were incompetent because why would Russia surrender if you capture it’s capital like France did? Mentally ill retards though Ivan the peasant from gopnikville would care that a certain city was taken over this other city. If only they listened to Hitler and focused on the Oil fields in the south.

>>679008

>You look at British history and what happened last time someone united continental Europe.

>And realise that defeat NEVER STOPPED BRITAIN, every single time they sued for peace they SYSTEMATICALLY declared war again once they had enough preparation/more favourable conditions.

>Until they won.

Mmmm, preach it brother. The Anglo is eternal.

>>679064

Remember that at the time of the Dunkirk evacuation the German army was strung out, disorganised, tired, well ahead of their logistical support and reinforcements, and basically in no shape to assault a dug in force that was receiving heavy air and naval fire support. As much as people ITT like to pretend that capturing the BEF at Dunkirk would have been as simple as just driving up and saying "yeah, you guys are POWs now" it would have been a nasty fight for the Wehrmacht, made even worse by the state they were in after the assault on France. The only real option they had was heavy bombardment by the Luftwaffe, which was made very costly and ineffective by the aforementioned air support and naval AA.

Dunkirk was still a major injury for the British forces, due to the large amount of heavy kit that had to be left behind on the shore, but the idea that Germany had the capacity to capture the British forces at Dunkirk is just ignoring literally everything else about the situation.

>>679058

>picking on people that ARE stronger than them

>Bitch frog THIS salty about Sedan

>le stronger men had to beg *nglos to help you resolve personal butthurt in true negro style

Despite all that happened Im glad they did and now you are forever nigger breeders with a heritage for it

>>678874

>beaten by spear chugging niggers

End this meme, the Ethiopians had bought weapons from the Anglos and were arguably better equipped than the Italians were

>>679116

Well I always thought that the infrastructure of the Italian colonies were shit at the beginning of their war against the Ethiopians, consequently causing supply sortages among the Italian troops and slowing down Italian advancement against the negroes.

What would be the ideal way to handle the Danzig vs Poland matter?

To this day, I think something went wrong between the two nations Germany and Poland, that could be avoided.

I still don't trust the narrative of muh 6 gorillion german killed in Poland before 1939.

>>679120

Everyone knows Prussia is allowed to partition or annex anything they want, because muh lebensraum moffuga, but when they fail to ethnically cleanse or otherwise germanize a territory over the course of over a century, it's still their rightful clay that they need to liberate back because might makes right, unless someone is stronger than Prussia, then it's the unfair perfidious eternal albion utilizing unfair kaballah magic.

>>679120

>What would be the ideal way to handle the Danzig vs Poland matter?

There is no ideal way. When two countries both want a piece of clay and both have a lot invested in the matter, there is little that can be done except one of the countries losing. Especially when it was Poland's essentially only way to the sea.

In the end it worked out fine, though. Germans have been spreading eastwards for centuries, so putting a stop to it and shoving them where they belong fixed that problem nicely. The only thing I regret is that ukrops got such a massive stretch of land.

>>679121

>>679122

Danzig was practically lost after the end of WW2, a great city, reduced to ruin.

I think there would be SOME agreement if the anglos didn't step in and say we are gonna protect Poland despite HAVING no power to do so. The English, once again, fucks up negotiation between two parties.

So Hitler would have Danzig and Poland would join him in a protectorate.

>>679124

Hitler was an Austrian but unfortunately the rest of Third Reich were autistic krauts.

>>679124

>So Hitler would have Danzig and Poland would join him in a protectorate.

What a riveting perspective for Poland. Not only do they lose clay, they also become slaves to Germany. Truly a big brain solution.

>>679125

>>679127

I think they would be better under the germans than the Soviet.

In any case, they have to choose because military-wise, Poland cannot protect itself against either of them.

>>679128

Also, even from the Allies perspective, Danzig citizen want to join Germany, so Poland really have no legs to stand on, except keeping Danzig for unwarranted attention.

Sweet thread I too enjoyed hearts of iron iv

>>679127

>What a riveting perspective for Poland. Not only do they lose clay, they also become slaves to Germany.

How exactly do they "become slaves to Germany" by giving back a German city full of German citizens to it's people's nation?

>>679274

Ignore the czech dog and just visit the nearest brothel. His sister might be there.

>>679125

>Austrians aren’t German

It’s no wonder Poles are world renown for their sharp intellect and intelligence.

>>679274

Not a German city, because Poland created it. Sure it was populated mostly by Germans nearly immediately after its establishment and it’s development was mostly due to that German population but Poles started the city. It’s the same way that Stettin isn’t a German city, because the poles owned it once for a couple of decades a millennium ago. Also Berlin is a Polish city because dey wuz city builders an shiet.

>>679281

Funny how all slavs just absolutely fail at utilzing the rail infanstructures we left behind. Kinda remind me of that construction site documentary in Africa with a chingchong manager and his nigger workers.

>>678226

I disagree with "ss" debauchery, 30 countries and one million men fought damn well and as hard for as long as they did in russia.

>>679322

You’re on the spectrum, aren’t you Hellenic-friend?

>>679342

>Or am I missing something?

The heavy sarcasm in that post.

>>678444

So you wanted the nations to be controlled by the ex-colonists? If that actually happens then the nation will be an extremely aggressive colonizing nation because the Anglo with Germanic drops in their veins tends to colonize everything without given fucks.

>>679360

Maybe try something that relies less on tone of voice next time

>>679363

There's literally nothing wrong with colonization if you genocide the locals or treat them as beast of burden.

That's what you are going to do in the stars.

>>679274

He said "Poland would join him in a protectorate."

>>679375

That doesn't mean they are slaves to Germany.

Now getting occupied by Germany, now that's being slaves to Germany.

>>679376

You do realise Bohemia WAS under a German protectorate and that it was so shit we had to assassinate Heydrich, right? Like this isn't some purely hypothetical scenario we're talking about; it is known how Germany treated its "protectorates"

>>679380

Like exactly how shit it is? Over hundred people dying a day?

And the death of Reinhard Heydrick is to be fucking mourned.

>>679380

Muh lebensraum moffuga, we wuz master race and shieet.

>>679384

Even you polish must admit that the times under the German occupation wasn't as bad as the Soviet occupation and commie regime afterwards.

>>679382

>anything pro-Czech is banned, being nationalist is a crime

>people led to "work for the Reich" as literal slave labour

>all czech universities closed, czechs restricted from studying (even from high school, many times)

>mass censorship and banning of books. Not just "degenerate books" like /pol/ claims, but ALL books that come from America, France, Russia, etc.

>czech officials on all levels replaced by germans

>czechs forcibly deported from areas germans decided to colonise because "muh lebensraum"

>having weapons or ammo is prohibited. Not even just guns, but swords too, just anything that falls under "weapom"

>constant arrests by glow in the dark Gestapo niggers + executions

And let's not even get into what went down after Heydrich did get killed. Germany literally tried to turn czechs into a slave force, and would have probably deported it all after the war was over to further enlarge muh lebensraum.

>>679394

Gonna need a big source of proofs.

And it sounds like another war-time occupied country, m8.

>>679395

>Gonna need a big source of proofs.

Afraid it's not gonna do you much good unless you can understand Czech, m8.

>And it sounds like another war-time occupied country

Right, and Poles should have desired that, according to you. That's not to mention that German peacetime plans with Bohemia featured full population replacement, which is even shittier than that. And before you start your bullshit about commies, no, it was nowhere near that shit. Sure, it was garbage for many reasons, but it couldn't hold a candle to what the Germs did here

>>679396

Commies occupy during peace time.

Germans occupy during war time.

Either ways, I don't remember the peaceful annexation of Austria was anything bad.

>>679397

And yes, Poland can only choose between Germany and the USSR because at this point in time, its military force cannot protect itself.

If it has chosen a side, it at least can use one to fight the other instead of being gang raped by both of them.

>>679398

Poland was a British & French attack dog against the Germans, nothing more. Unfortunately for them, support never materialised and they ended up being a canary in the coal mine instead.

>>679399

British used Poland to bait the germans.

The point is Poland should have taken the baits. There's absolute no fucking way either the brits or french can guarantee Poland's independence.

That is dumb shit from day one. It's like expecting the now US to guarantee one's indepedence when you know there's no loyalty to the US, they discard you like a dumb whore if shit gets hot.

>>679400

>The point is Poland should NOT have taken the baits*

>>679397

>Either ways, I don't remember the peaceful annexation of Austria was anything bad.

no shit, because it was full of germans you retard

>Commies occupy during peace time.

no they don't

>Germans occupy during war time.

…and deport you in peace time. How awesome

>>679401

>REEE how dare you kill an occupier!

stay mad, kraut

>>679403

>no they don't

They occupy during 1944 onwards, which is the final days of the war and unto peace time.

>…and deport you in peace time. How awesome

Again, where? Germany lacks the logistics to deport such a huge amount of people.

And who's gonna live in Bohemia? Germany was still more than large enough to hold 80 million germans.

>>679401

>>679406

Eagerly awaiting you to post a laundry list of proud german inventions that mysteriously lacks any moral and philosophical developments accompanying said inventions.

At least Martin Luther is now associated with a degenerate nigger communist which is a decent form of poetic justice.

>>679406

Did you forget you're neither Greek nor Roman?

Pole, german, please, let's not repeat WW2 for the 10th time again.

This finger pointing is retarded.

>>679405

>They occupy during 1944 onwards

not here they didn't (until 1968). And you need to understand that USSR policies didn't apply to the entire block. We had nowhere near the terror Russians had, not even during the normalization.

>Again, where?

presumably Siberia, after it took out USSR

>Germany lacks the logistics to deport such a huge amount of people.

Germany can't move 10 million people during peace time? Come on now.

>And who's gonna live in Bohemia?

Germs, obviously

>Germany was still more than large enough to hold 80 million germans.

and yet it sought more for its lebensraum

>>679406

>"w-w-we built some roads (that we built to move troops, not because of you shitbloods), that means we are superior to you in every aspect and you should be our slaves :(((( Why can't you see that if a German builds a road somewhere, he has the right to the whole country? :(((("

Your retardation never fails. Also, Czechoslovakia was among the more developed countries in europe, so much so that Germans considered its car industry a major asset, so even this retarded argument you have going on doesn't hold up.

German mentality is, all in all, curious. Next time someone decides to conquer it, he should just quickly build a very nice railroad there – Germans will fall around his knees and beg him to govern them.

>>679415

Now it is in the ethnically homogenous club, kraut. You can only envy us.

>>679414

>not here they didn't (until 1968). And you need to understand that USSR policies didn't apply to the entire block. We had nowhere near the terror Russians had, not even during the normalization.

Because it was fucking peacetime.

>presumably Siberia, after it took out USSR

That's just straight out bullshit with nothing to advocate for it.

>Germany can't move 10 million people during peace time? Come on now.

Yeah, I think so. War time mobilization with all trucks and they have problems moving about 8 million not that far from Poland.

>and yet it sought more for its lebensraum

Lebensraum is very arguable because it's not like germans displace the people they occupy during war time.

It would take 20 years of peace time for germans to reach a billion so they can be spread to the empty territory, even then it just doesn't make logistical sense. If the germans are that fucking horrendous, they would just kill the local instead of wasting money transporting people.

>>679413

>morality and philosophy doesn't have to adapt to technological progress lmao, let's all harvest dead children for anti-balding formulas, foreskins for anti-aging creams and splice genes to have designer pet babies simply because we can

>muh industrialism

Congratulations on being proud of destroying humanity by robbing people of their nature leading to complete insanity and meaningless obsessions to fill a void in life.

Maybe someday the turks that replace you will evolve to a level that's either basic "might makes right" (meaning they're capable of acknowledging loses), or to an actual civilization instead of

>might makes right, unless glorious prussia loses a conflict then it's perfidious albion and everyone else bullying us for no reason we were god's chosen not fair, fucking Harris

>>679417

>That's just straight out bullshit with nothing to advocate for it.

There's Generalplan Ost, but also more tangible things, such as "germanization" of kids that were deemed aryan enough and similar policies, such as seizing land for german colonization which I mentioned in my previous posts

>Yeah, I think so. War time mobilization with all trucks and they have problems moving about 8 million not that far from Poland.

You act as though they'd need to transfer them all at once, when it would likely take around a decade or so, one stretch of land at a time.

>because it's not like germans displace the people they occupy during war time.

But they literally did. Both czecchs and poles

>It would take 20 years of peace time for germans to reach a billion so they can be spread to the empty territory

And that makes it better because...? Why the hell would "it will take a few yyears instead of happening right away :DDDD" somehow make it less of a shit thing for the occupied?

>>679418

Hey, we aren't the ones literally welcoming them. If you don't want then, shouldn't have gone with "Wir schaffen das!" or "refugees willkommen". So long as they don't stay here (and they don't, because we don't give ridiculous gibs to human trash like you do), I don't see how they're our problem.

>But rest assure they will be sent back to you soon.

Dunno, with how the trend in Germany is to elect Greens (so go even further left), it looks more as though Germans will send us a thank you card, with a polite request whether we could ship in even more shitshins for them.

>>679427

>There's Generalplan Ost, but also more tangible things, such as "germanization" of kids that were deemed aryan enough and similar policies, such as seizing land for german colonization which I mentioned in my previous posts

Generalplan Ost is totally Soviet propaganda and wasn't enacted in anyway during the war.

>But they literally did. Both czecchs and poles

Evidence?

I thought czechs and poles were kept as slave labors in their countries, and not literally sent elsewhere (unless it's the yids in Warsaw?)

>>679429

Also, it doesn't answer the literal question: why didn't the germans just kill the natives?

>>679429

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Poles_by_Nazi_Germany

>>679428

It is understandable to see you so angry, gazing at the end of your country and the people therein (even if you stopped further immigration, there's so many turks and others that they'll outbreed you soon anyway). It is quite sad – we'll probably need to build a war to prevent shitskins and fleeing germans from spilling over to us. Still, wouldn't it be more productive for you to focus your attention at the problem instead of shitposting? If you service turks really well, maybe they'll let you have a reservation, like injuns do in America

>>679364

He is simply being honest so what is wrong with that?

>>679431

Because the natives are still a workforce that germany (especially during wartime) sorely needed and because striaght up genocide would cause the population to rise up.

>>679434

Well, let's see how the germans defend against that, but by skimming it, I see it's getting close to Holohoax propaganda.

>>679434

I'm talking about the post-war, provided Germany wins, it's still more efficient to kill the natives than resettling them.

>>679452

>your population consists of nothing but prostitutes and meth addicts?

And german population consists of three groups, turks, self-loathing cuckolds and spergs with delusions of grandeur

Why do kikes never get into the fun ethnic discussions that wh*tes to all the time?

Being a semitoid parasite mutt species there should be plenty of genetic oppurtunity.

>>679459

They are way too preoccupied with eradicating whites from the face of the Earth.

>>679459

They're too mixed for ethnic debates, they argue over talmud interpretations or if orthodox jews should be allowed to dodge the draft, and why even have draft when americans literally exist to protect israel.

There was a video from hareetz where horse-mounted jew in riot gear was chasing orthodox draft dodgers.

>>679459

Because they are laughing over huwites going at each others' throats while the kikes pump in more turkroaches, niggers, goblins, and degeneracy.

Also, because none of you will do anything.

Kikes already won. gg no re.

>>679364

Not my fault you have Aspergers, it was fairly obvious, by every other line.

>>679441

It’s a glorious place to call home isn’t it? This is exactly why Colonial huwhite nationalist alliance would never work, though.

>>679447

If only the Krauts didn’t invade and kill 24 million commie swines right after that picture. Then maybe it would be a valid thing to post.

>>679457

>hey look the kikes that run the nation implemented policies that are in line with like actions, obviously the Germans did that

>ignore German character resurgence in spite of 70 years of brainwashing and the eraticiation of German culture

It’s a wonder that the HRE and Frankfurt parliament considered you Germanics.

>>679465

Makes you think why you were too inept to do it over the course of over a century.

>>679463

>If only the Krauts didn’t invade and kill 24 million commie swines right after that picture. Then maybe it would be a valid thing to post.

If only krauts didn't send lenin to destroy Russia that'd be a valid argument.

>ignore German character resurgence in spite of 70 years of brainwashing and the eraticiation of German culture

>there's no middle ground between "just nigger my shit up fam" and "we wuz da god's chosen master race, muh lebensraum moffuga, before da whitey anglo com along"

>>679469

>farming

>bad

How jewish are you?

>>679473

>We wuz god's chosen and shieet, might makes right unless Bomber Harris beats us, muh lebensraum moffuga!

Truly the superior civilization's philosophy, but at least you have technological progress, and progress is good, regardless of what is it that you're actually getting closer to.

>>679474

Sending spies to destroy countries and counterfeiting money is truly the hwite man's way of waging warfare and not spineless kikery.

Based.

>>679461

>They're too mixed for ethnic debates

Shit, I guess we do have something to learn from mutts.

>>679476

Ironically, americans aren't brown enough to go past that like Mexico where there's no ethnic identity so you pick a cartel with symbolism you enjoy the most.

(((The goal))) is not to have "world peace all people are the same", but everyone is brown-grey and killing each other in the name of McDonalds or Burgerking, Nike or Adidas; capeshit, (((Blizzard Entertainment))) and (((hollywood))) cultists are already getting there with the companies and their products being a significant part of their identity

They think we're eternal but we'll literally exist as long as booty blasted continentals and end at the exact same point as them.

Goddamn, why is this kraut such a fucking sperg?

Also, gee thanks for sending that kike Lenin over to destroy Russia and causing communism to spread like it did. But I guess it's ok to destroy other countries as long as you do it. Guess that's European politics in a nutshell, though.

Damn the kikes for existing and meddling. The US should've stayed isolationist and given all of you the finger.

>>679466

>If only krauts didn't send lenin to destroy Russia that'd be a valid argument.

Wow, it’s crazy that Lenin and the other commie kikes were able to get into power with absolutely 0 support from the Russian people.

>>679469

Nothing wrong with an honest home farm. I’ve only been to Poland for 45 minutes so can’t say if their farms are bad or not but I can’t imagine they’re that awful. European farming in general is very different from how we do it though.

>>679476

It’s the culture too, even in highschool when I kept up Bantz against the Swiss kids, none of them ever really could come up with anything because they thought they were white rather than Swiss-Germans. I got drunk and sperg on about Pan-Germanism and tried to discuss with one if the Swiss should be included in a hypothetical Pan-German country, and they thought that boarders defined ethnicity.

>>679481

>If I have to be flooded with unwanted migrants so Germany will collapse then that is worth the price

>I don’t even live in Poland anyways

Literal nigger tier.

>>679480

It’s already begun and it’s fucking horrifying to see people identify with brands and companies to such an absured degree.

>>679491

You could have shot him instead of looking to further destabilise a beaten nation.

>>679491

You could've shot him, you autistic faggot. Would've done the world much better, but no. You had to be a cunt and send the faggot back.

>>679494

Because everyone was a conservatively minded liberal by about 1830 here, what's the Germans excuse?

>>679494

>Blaming other for your own mistakes.

lmao, you fucking sperg

>>679489

>Germany sends kike to Russia

>kike forms new government

>Germans send troops into the Baltic to fight against Bolsheviks

>Anglos Arm and supply commies as well as fight with them

>Anglos and frogs force German government to withdraw troops from the Baltic

>Germans make anti-Comintern pact

>Anglos and Frogs refuse to join

>Commies invade Baltics and Finnland

>Anglos and frogs offer vague support but refuse to help

>Germans go to war to wipe out Commies

>Anglos and Frogs Ally with commies while you prop up their entire war effort

>Oh why, oh why did the Germans help communists so much!!

>>679495

>what's the Germans excuse?

<Kaiser Sperghelm II is all Germans

Why did all Brits give up the Empire?

>>679498

I don't know why did you go your own way?

autonomy probably.

Doesn't excuse Germany for not simple killing Lenin.

Oh well, might as well take the old European phrase of Vae Victis.

The US may be dying but you're dying more, kraut autist. Enjoy your coming bank crash and hope you don't get raped too hard by the Turks.

>>679502

No we're all dying and arguing about assigning blame as we bleed out.

>>679505

Man, I can feel the autistic asspain coming off of you. I can kinda see why the bongs though of you as they did, lel.

>>679507

Very witty comeback that also completely proved your opponent's points completely wrong ;)

>>679499

We’re still under your dominion, the Queen chooses our Prime Minister but because the Royal family has become nothing but a tax drain, the Governor General just chooses whomever wins the election rather than a decent fucking leader. I’d be under a monarchy than our shitty two party-esque system. But one that actually rules.

>>679489

>Also, gee thanks for sending that kike Lenin over to destroy Russia and causing communism to spread like it did.

Lenin was financed mostly by American jewish bankiers, a fact most mutts don't know because their jewish masters don't want their slaves to be too informed about the truth.

>>679512

The queen has as much of a role in your politics as she does in ours i.e. ceremonial.

Fun fact: Lenin wasn't some kind of an archdaemon whose mere presence was enough to corrupt the Russian soil with gommunism. In fact there was a commie revolution well before the First World War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_Russian_Revolution

>>679516

He was sent in the hope he would further destabilise the nation. Unfortunately no one has clairvoyance yo forsee such a small group seizing power in Russia like they did.

>>679517

And without him all the other commies would have been powerless, because they needed the daemonic potency of Lenin to activate themselves.

>>679518

Yes in many ways showing what a revolutionary vanguard can do can very much galvanise others. If an small, unpopular, minority can seize a place as big as Russia of course it has an effect.

>>679520

I mean the commies who were already in Russia. They literally didn't do anything between 1905 and 1917, until Lenin arrived in April, and he mustered their forces for the October Revolution. Let's just ignore that other revolution of 1917 that happened well before his arrival. And we should also forget how he was actually in Switzerland and Germans merely let him go to Russia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_Revolution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Lenin#February_Revolution_and_the_July_Days:_1917

>>679519

Commies want to exist in an utopic state where everyone is happy because all of their needs are taken care of. In practice they build inefficient centralized states that control every aspect of the economic life like some kind of a benevolent god. But this system is so inefficient that everything is bound to rot away. And this ideology is a sickness of a mind that spreads best among those who live a mentally unsanitary life. Yes, I think you are correct.

>>679516

Territories of modern russia has always suffered of socialist obshchina mentality, geographical hyper-centralization and retarded leftist """philosophers""" like Bakunin, Kropotkin etc etc. Lenin wasn't even a real kike, being a properly mixed 56% mongoloid russmutt.

>>679525

This is the afore mentioned instability that Russia was in, the thing about these moments of instability is it does actually give strong personalities and performers the power to mobalise the usually deadened masses because basic needs aren't being met.

>>679515

Right, though she could kick Trudeau out right now, if she wanted though that wouldn’t go over too well.

>>679535

She doesn't have that power here it's been legislated away I image the same thing has been done in Canada although she'd never exercise that right as sovereign even if she could because knocking over a democracy is a good way to end a monarchy.

>>679548

>Commies always certain of all-consuming victory in the end

>Commies live in a constant state of rot and decay while being told it's the worker's utopia

Commies are atheist muslims.

>>679537

Unless it’s changed much since high school or I mis-remember the information she does have that power, though you’re right she would never do anything. Which is a shame, I thought Harry might be /ourguy/ then he married a kikess goblino.

>>679548

>Neck yourself.

Maybe you should do it considering your greatest civilizational achievement is Luther's reformation and the 2nd best one is completely made up justification for jewish subjugation of the west because you couldn't even holocaust anyone.

I don't think turning the world into shit is an achievement to be proud of.

>>679559

>Krauts made the world shit, not Jews

Have you considered drowning yourself in some Briton’s toilet the next time you’re brushing his shit off the bowl with your toothbrush?

What happened to this thread, shit nigga.

>>679559

How did Hitler lose if the Kikes didnt already control the world? Seriously there were kikes advising every allied leader AND the fucking Soviet leaders long before Hitler rose to power.

You cant seriously be blaming them for that.

The only differwnce is that Kikes had to make the control public after the war, they couldnt hide behind the scenes anymore.

>>679564

And you shut the fuck up as well. Slavs contributed plenty to civilization.

I WILL NOT HAVE YOU DUMB FUCKS TEARING INTO EACH OTHER WHILE THE KIKES LAUGH

This debate is really funny and autistic at same time. I like to see >>678444's idea to become a reality but unfortunately jews wouldn't allow that.

>>678226

The important lesson is never let jews control the money matters. Money is the biggest problem because it gaves jews a lot of power over the people so banish the Jews away and change the entire economic system.

>>679577

Not everyone support the white mutt nationalism. Slavs consider that to be race mixing but I think Aussies, leaves, yanks, kiwi and other colonial nations will support that.

>>679581

How about you stop caring about that and start thinking about the shrinking white races's fates. The window of opportunity to stop white people from becoming minority and get subjugated permanentlt is running out of air from the balloon that we blew in.

>>679578

Aussies, leaves, yanks and brits are literally one race. Way over 50% of the whites in our nations are anglosaxon.

There are seven human species in the world, and Homo Europensis has only three peoples that count:

1. Pictish - 300 mil anglos and associated people

2. Odinite - 350 mil nords, germans, french

3. Perunite - 400 mil slavs

The roman and greek civilizations are tiny and fucked.

>>679587

Lend your gun and brain to loyal white people. Simply don't help the traitors.

>>679590

>Aussies, leaves, yanks and brits are literally one race.

Then it is in their best interest to form a supernation and rule the space.

>>679594

Too many differences for that, kiwis and shitposters are alike, leafs and burgers depending on the region are alike.

>bongs

Only have met a few I'd actually call sane.

>>679594

>loyal white people

As soon as I meet one that doesn't spew "my grandpa zapped da krauts with based thompson XD"

Funny how I feel less offended when I hear that from a Russian than I do from a mutt or a pole/lesser Euro.>>679594

>>679597

I don't care about the differences. Be ruthless and make that a reality. The people are like the cattle that need the guides from the farmers.

>>679578

I’ve been saying this for a while, huwhite nationalism only works for us colonies were most people are white mutts. I am lucky that I traced 3/4 of my family back to North Germany to at least the 1600’s and the other quarter were half Scott’s half English, so I can at least be autistic about one ethnicity rather than some loosely defined group of “whites”. But I cannot see white nationalism working for Europe in any sense.

Is there any ethnic tensions in Switzerland or have most people just put their nationalism towards the government rather than their ethnicity?

>>679590

I’d think that is quite an exaggeration. Most people in my area claim to be at least half Germanic yet it’s extremely common that people have Celtic and/or Slavic and/or Latin admixture too. I’d say pure Anglo-saxons that haven’t actually moved from England in the last ~70 years are quite rare. Though I haven’t traveled around Canada much so that is just from my local experience.

Also I’d question your race categories, certainly Apline Germans (Austro-Bavarians, Swiss-Germans, and Swabians(?)) are less similar to Norwegians than to Franks/North Italians? I always understood their two be Nordic Germans and then Alpine Germans and the Germans in the middle of the country were more of a mix of the two. Do you have any readings about the subject, race and ethnicity is very interesting to me but I find it quite complex.

Oh boy, looks like the turkroach is on a rampage again. I sure hope it does delete other "derailment" posts too.

Funny despite the power tripping most of the posts still shit on amerimutts. This should make a certain (((mongrel))) very mad.

>>679616

Would it not be better moderation to leave the posts up and contain all ethnic shit flinging to this thread only since it is already too far gone and was a pretty low effort thread to start with?

>>679603

You're like my cousins in the alpine, you don't understand the mentality of folk here. There isn't any unity for the most part, nobody want to have to deal with people from X local or Y area. Trying to force those sorts together only leads to useless fucking bloodshed when there are far more immediate problems at hand, like chinks and the usual suspects. I'll make my breakaway state and tell everyone else to fuck right off.

I think the best way I can put it is everything is like some quasi-junker estate, nobody in the manor wants to deal with the unwashed masses of poles who live in the shanty over yonder.

>>679625

Designated mutt-flinging zone?

Either ways, I don't think the discussion of poles vs german are anything fruitful.

>>679658

OH AND WHOMEVER IS GETTING ALL THE VPNS BANNED, I'D LIKE TO WRING YOUR FRIGGIN FAGGOT NECK. STOP IT YOU NO GOOD DAMNED DEMON INFESTED JERK

get a hobby that doesn't involve doing evil