27303c No.645984
How would /k/ defend against Dazzlers with a limited budget?
Dazzlers are fucking dangerous to civilians, especially if more powerful versions are developed which could permanently blind. The fact that they can fire over a large area and change frequencies quickly means there would be no way to take cover from an attack before it hits you. Although these weapons are illegal for governments to make, the fact that improvised versions wouldn't be hard for terrorist/rebels/whoever to jury-rig means defending against them is important. Pilots and other airmen are especially vulnerable, owing to the fact that the attack doesn't really suffer fall off when aiming up.
The most total defence I could think of was basically a pass through VR headset, but this would be impractical as the vision inside is not accurate and lag free enough for use in combat and would cause vision issues if worn constantly. Simply wearing an expensive pair of thermal googles would also work, but the issues of limited vision and constant use still apply, with the added problem of cost. Sunglasses, ski-goggles and even shooting glasses would be basically useless as dazzlers could change power and frequency quickly, unless /k/ knows some special gear for defence against this.
Some sort of compound in a smoke grenade which refracted all frequencies in and near the visible range and infra-red would be useful, but in practice it would only be useful as cover if you already knew you were under attack.
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9463cd No.645989
How much would sunglasses or welding goggles help against dazzlers?
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fdd1aa No.646002
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b888c8 No.646004
Same as any other weapon you shoot them before they shoot you with their meme weapon
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962025 No.646015
Tin foil or mylar uniforms.
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d55776 No.646016
>>645984
Dazzlers are already extremely dangerous even if they don't permanently blind.
Especially at night. Human eyes require 45 minutes to fully adapt to darkness. After 5 minutes it has already reached 75%, which is good enough, but imagine being near blind in a combat situation for five minutes.
>>645989
>welding goggles
This is quite smart actually. You know those welding masks that automatically go dark as soon as a bright light hits them?
You could use one of those to protect crew against lasers. Using the same concept but with multiple wavelength sensors, and multiple layers of blocking material could be used to protect against dazzlers while not completely blinding the pilots either.
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74bd07 No.646030
>>645984
Smoke emitters/grenades that are opaque at the wavelength of the laser? Or just bomb them while they wait for the atmosphere to be at the precise conditions for their overhyped meme weapon to function properly.
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fad508 No.646033
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e773b6 No.646056
>>646033
>buy goggles for 680nm laser
>get hit by 532nm laser
wat do?
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fa5a1b No.646069
>>645989
>welding goggles
Polarizing filter glass would be better, the auto-darken welding masks would work, but they get so dark you cannot see anything but the plasma pool when you're welding, wouldn't be great for pilots.
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27303c No.646080
>>645989
Sunglasses not so much, but welding googles could be useful. The question is does it react fast enough to protect you against a laser which is far higher intensity than a welding flash?
>>646069
As long as they protect the vision enough to recover quickly you're fine. Pilots will survive as long as they're out for only a few seconds. But the question is still does it polarize fast enough?
>>646033
Thanks for the link anon but the issue >>646056 mentioned remains. I guess you could give a different frequency pair to each squad member and hope one of them can defend everybody else while they're out but it still leaves you 95% vulnerable and even then if the attacker moves through multiple frequencies quickly it's an issue.
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fad508 No.646084
>>646056
>>646080
You buy the not cheap ones.
Again it's fucking COATING.
If you put multiples coats you protect against multiples wavelengths.
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fa5a1b No.646085
>>646080
>As long as they protect the vision enough to recover quickly you're fine.
That's only good for quick beams lasting a second or two, if it's a constant beam for even 20 seconds, the pilot is fucked.
>But the question is still does it polarize fast enough?
Well the light produced by welding moves at the speed of light, as it is light. The light from a laser is not faster than light caused by welding so that's a rather silly question. I definitely don't notice it when I'm welding but it is possible that a brief exposure occurrences but is too short to do much harm. If that were the case a much higher intensity light (i.e. a laser beam) might cause more or considerable harm in that brief exposure. So the issue isn't if it's fast enough since light moves the same speed form all sources, but whether there is any incidental exposure or not.
Polarizing **sorry England* filters only allow one plane of EM waves to pass, I don't recall how it effects the light that passes through but two linear lenses at just under 90 degrees from each other should block out most light but I'm not sure if it would be effective and still allow enough light to still see. So a passive measure like that might not work, when I go home for reading week in two weeks, I can test out our welding masks at home (if I remember and this thread isn't dead), but doubt my phone's camera has a high enough frame rate to catch anything, nor do I know how to use any editing software to see. Perhaps I could nigger-rig a fluorescent screen Rutherford style, but I think that would take far too much energy/money.
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fad508 No.646086
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27303c No.646087
>>646084
>>646086
Can it protect against all frequencies though (making them impossible to see through) or will it alway have a vulnerability if you want it to be useable?
>>646085
Yeah obviously the light moves at the same speed, but like you said the amount that gets through in the time it takes adapt could cause serious damage, which would sort of defeat the point of the defence.
Is there any serious academic research into this? I feel like somebody would have though of this threat before.
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f45ae8 No.646135
I work near lasers all the time on laser CNC acrylic cutting machine, and everyone on the floor has a set of goggles. All that happens if a laser hits them is the goggle material itself fizzles and turns black in a line where the laser went, essentially the goggle burns instead of your retina. It works 100% of the time.
Lasers are garbage weapons, dazzlers are only terrifying because they can be used against civilians.
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a8ff28 No.646158
>>646087
>or will it alway have a vulnerability if you want it to be useable?
Of course it would have vulnerability. Glasses in question >>646084 are vulnerable in teh 532-710 nm, 532-808 nm waveband respectively. Filter needs to be transparent in some waveband otherwise it would be impossible to see through it.
Fan fact: soviet supper dazzler tank had 20 different wavelength lasers working against single target. Impossible to defend against.
Another fan fact: Russians adopted its new version based on modern components. Its capabilities and even looks are top secret.
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608093 No.646172
>>646135
You mean photochromic goggles, right?
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a8ff28 No.646249
>>646172
No it is coating burns off.
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f45ae8 No.646250
>>646172
No the surface of it literally burns, chars like coal. The google is ruined afterward, it can't be reused.
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ea673f No.646894
>>646892
you're one to talk, beaner
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7c4ba3 No.646919
>>645984
Laser weapons are kind of shit. Try to keep even a powerful laser pointer still on a moving target from 200m+. You'd need an extremely stable tripod being constantly moved and shined in a soldiers eyes. One laser only being able to "dazzle" one soldier.
The longer the distance, the more particles in the way of the beam such as dust, sand shit. So you'd need a bulky stand for each laser while remaining covered at a short enough distance.
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f29041 No.647062
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3ee0ff No.647162
>>645984
All you guys are retards, everyone knows that lasers are easily defeated by pic related
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82a0e5 No.647164
>>646250
Can you give brand/model of the glasses that you use?
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0cd0fe No.647184
>>645984
Laser/Dazzle attacks have been a military concern since the late-50's and have for the most part been mostly mitigated. A laser/dazzle attack against an civilian is unlikely, leaning more to an improbability. The most likely target is aircraft, followed by electro-optics on aircraft/buildings/equipment/vehicles and individual weapons sights/scopes/magnified optics. All military hardware has a LIF/LPF coating or have a LIF/LPF insert that can be applied, ex. the M17, M40/42/45, and M50 all have LIF overlens, nearly all combat sights have a LIF/LPF incorporated into their design or can be fitted with one, all NVG post-PVS-5 have LIF/LPD inserts, as do most MIL-STD binoculars. Now you can purchase sunglasses design to function as LIF/LPF from Laser Armor, as well as LIF/LPF adapters for weapons sights like the TA91.
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160eb6 No.647273
>>647184
Coating and filters don't cover all wavelength also high-power lasers can damage coatings. Even they they save eyes/cameras optical device still becomes nonoperational. Filters are mostly against collateral damage of teh laser rangefinders against dedicated laser weapons they are weak. Main protection against laser weapons is international treaties.
>A laser/dazzle attack against an civilian
Actually ""'less then lethal' dazzlers for crowd control is new hot items for LE and military across the world.
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3076e2 No.647274
>>647162
This particular defense is 93% efficient. How much thermal power would it take to melt it? Divide by reciprocal of 0.93 to find out minimum laser power requirement.
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0c31ac No.647284
>>647274
then we just put another mirror behind it
CHECKMATE
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e15bd9 No.647334
>make the cockpit a one way mirror
>laugh
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0cd0fe No.647402
>>647273
>Coating and filters don't cover all wavelength
A LIF/LPF is a countermeasure, it's designed to combat the most common laser threat; Nd:YAG which is most common across both LRF and a blinding laser systems like the ZM-87. This is why vision blocks and optical sensors on combat platforms have a colored tint in their exterior glass, it's a LIF/LPF coating that utilizes a compound like vanadium-doped zinc telluride that help defeat a wide array of wavelngths.
>also high-power lasers can damage coatings
Which is the entire point of a coating or filter…it saves the eyes of the user.
>Even they they save eyes/cameras optical device still becomes nonoperational.
Electro-optic loss is a pittance compared to the loss of a trained operator. Why do you think drones have stepped to the forefront of ISR? Drones are cheap and expendable…better to lose an RQ-9 than an entire LRRP or LRS element. Same principle applies to placing a LIF/LPF on a sensor, you lose a sensor, but retain the operator.
>Filters are mostly against collateral damage of teh laser rangefinders against dedicated laser weapons they are weak.
LIF/LPF, are as I said, a countermeasure against the most common laser threat in use Nd:YAG. The point of a LIF/LPF is to provide the user enough time to break visual contact to prevent permanent loss of sight.
>Main protection against laser weapons is international treaties.
Which means nothing, the US is getting ready to back out of an international treaty regarding intermediate range nuclear weapons development/deployment and nothing stops a nation from preforming research for "domestic systems".
>Actually ""'less then lethal' dazzlers for crowd control is new hot items for LE and military across the world.
Dazzlers have been in MIL/LE inventory for nearly a decade.
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d55776 No.647866
>>647334
>night
>pilots now completely blind
>crash
>laugh in Lockheed
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74bd07 No.647873
>>646084
>France issues its new anti-laser goggles
>'lenses' consist of 1cm thick black ceramic that has been carefully created to block any potential frequency of laser
>The fact that this makes them completely opaque and blinds the soldier wearing them apparently did not come up in testing
>Dassault announce that they are working on 'microwave vision implants' for all servicemen as a response.
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21c133 No.647874
>>645984
The few times Dazzlers actually have been used, they haven't been particularly effective.
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d55776 No.647970
>>645984
>gun doesn't even have a belt inserted
For what purpose?
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12efaa No.653347
Just put a fucking mirror. You will look like a disco ball, sure, but it works.
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48f8cc No.653353
I don't think I could contain my rage if a faggot broke my nods with their goddamn laser chink light show.
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e46405 No.653354
>>645984
laser eye pro
>>645989
depends on the type of laser
>>646016
Dazzlers can be lethal force iirc when used to intentionally blind someone (permanently)
>>646033
>Laser weapons are fucking retarded.
I think you mean I L L E G A L as war crimes
>>646056
just get that high OD bruh, cant see shit, but protection from multiple wavelengths
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e46405 No.653356
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>647402
there are different types of tinting, one is a coating, but the super expensive type is actually a doped glass iirc that stops the desired wavelengths
>Electro-optic loss is a pittance compared to the loss of a trained operator.
This, the use of electropotics completely eliminates the risk to the viewer
>Actually ""'less then lethal' dazzlers for crowd control is new hot items for LE and military across the world.
B.E. Meyers had to integrate a safety because of army fucktards playing star wars vid related
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c48c3d No.653366
>>647273
Bullet resistant vests don't protect against all projectiles, but they're still worth using.
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0cd0fe No.653399
>>653356
Yeah, AFAIK glass with a kind of rainbow effect when seen from a side-angle has a LIF/LPF tint coating and glass that appears with a ruby or sapphire hue in color are doped glass.
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f2f20e No.664073
>>646033
>instant impact weapons are retarded
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4d0fc4 No.665134
Make a retroreflective mask.
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927c48 No.680433
>>645984
Build your own and shoot the terrorist with it. Problem solved.
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2845a7 No.680466
>>645984
tinted windows
come on fag, even degenerate druggies use them
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3369e2 No.683272
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