/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

So what's this thread about?

>>32942

You need to seek help from a mental health professional.

Akh you are suffering from some form of paranoia, please seek help from a professional.

Plot twist: the psychiatrist is a jew.

>>32947

dun dun dunnnnn

But, no really. The oldest mental health clinics in the world were built by Muslims in Baghdad. Under Islam, the mentally ill are considered incapable but deserving of humane treatment and protection.

>>32947

Kek

>>32967

God created Jews. It is not ok to hate God's creation.

>>32969

God created murder that doesn't mean we can't hate murder; It's not ok to hate israelites because God told us that race is irrelevant.

>>32970

"Murder" is a side-effect of creation, not creation itself.

>>32971

Allah is the sustainer, everything is at its core his creation. The fact that God exercises certain rules in his creation that we perceive as causation does not mean it is not a creation of Allah.

>>32969

It's ok to hate jews and kuffar in general.

"There has been for you an excellent example in Abraham and his followers, when they said to their people, :

"Indeed, we disavow you and from whatever you worship other than Allah. We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone" 60:4

>>32972

Perhaps I misspoke. What I mean to say is that while murder is a creation of God, it is man who performs the action. Murder, as a concept, existed before Cain, but Cain became the first murderer.

>>32973

Well, you know me, akhi. I have a very difficult time with the concept of "hate". I come from a background that taught me to love my enemies. As a human, it is my nature to sin, hate, and revile; but I push myself hard to force those things out of me. Perhaps this makes me misguided, but I don't know if I'm capable of true hatred.

>>32978

My brother, love for the enemy is a catholic roman pagan concept, used to pacify "christians" towards the idolaters. And it is very illogical, not even christians apply it, certainly the crusaders did not.

Hatred, like any feeling or action should be done for the sake of Allah (swt), same for loving. The concept of al walaa to the muslims and al baraa to the kafireen is fundamental, it is what defines us. Any muslim you take his side if he is oppressed, if he is the oppressor you help him stop oppressing. But never betray them. Same for the Love and Hatred for the things Allah (swt) loves and hates, don't you hate shirk? I despise it! It is disgusting, I hate seeing idolatry and I hate the idolaters for their arrogance. Even if my parents or brothers, I will hate them and be their enemy if they prefer shirk over tawheed.

>>32973

It's ok to hate jews and kuffar in general.

>>32980

Hatred, like any feeling or action should be done for the sake of Allah (swt),

Is this really The Religion Of Peace™?

On youthbe listen to 'no peace with the jews'by sehikh abdullah el faisal ,

>>33195

>The Religion Of Peace™

Muslims don't use that term. It was George W Bush who first used it and it has nothing to do with us. Islam is a religion of submission to God.

>>32949

>Under Islam, the mentally ill are considered incapable but deserving of humane treatment and protection.

Why do they deserve protection?

>>33201

Because they're not necessarily able to function in normal society and must be protected from being taken advantage of or from being killed by those who see them as weak.

>>33201

>Why do children deserve protection

>>33197

Literally, 'islam' means 'submission', but let's be honest, it is the religion of hatred and death.

>>33235

No it isn't. If you have such a low opinion of Islam, why are you on our board?

>>33201

Because they can't protect themselves.

>>33235

It's neither a religion of peace nor a religion of hatred, it is submission to Allah (swt), we love what Allah (swt) loves and hates what He (swt) hates.

>>33196

>>33246

>>33246

Thats the one bro

>>33236

I was not offering an opinion, just the facts.

>>33255

We tell you the facts and you listen.

>>33253

He's good.

>>33277

That was one hell of a clapback

>>33279

I take almost everything from sheikh abdullah faisal apart from the dawlat stuff may Allah hasten his release

>>33277

I'm all about listening. What I will not do, is take anyone's word that something is a fact. Nothing is true, just because you say it is.

>>33304

>Nothing is true, just because you say it is

Exactly. Right back at ya.

>>33296

Ameen.

>>33304

Listen we are muslims who do not lie, we tell you the truth and we know more than you about Islam. I know you might be triggered due to me exposing the "religion of peace" meme created by george bush but that does not give you the right to make stuff up about us. Yes we hate you, yes we hate polytheism, but we also love for you to become muslim, we call you to true life.

>>33313

>Listen we are muslims who do not lie, we tell you the truth and we know more than you about Islam.

Nothing is true because you say it is.

>I know you might be triggered due to me exposing the "religion of peace" meme created by george bush but that does not give you the right to make stuff up about us.

The 'religion of peace' comment was entirely sarcastic, I know it's bull☻. And I don't need to 'make anything up', and especially not against any individual, so not quite sure how you came to that conclusion.

>Yes we hate you, yes we hate polytheism, but we also love for you to become muslim, we call you to true life.

You'd love for me to become muslim, but will happily hate me until I do.

Until you can love me as a non-muslim, I have no intention of joining your cult - I cannot hate anyone, even you.

>>33339

>Until you can love me as a non-muslim

I love you as a non-Muslim because you are part of Creation and I don't hate the creation because I don't hate the creator.

So, which one of us speaks for Islam? The one who hates you or the one who doesn't?

>>33340

>So, which one of us speaks for Islam? The one who hates you or the one who doesn't?

The Quran (correct me if i'm wrong) is the word of allah, conveyed to mohammad through the angel jibreel.

60:4 There is a goodly pattern for you in Abraham and those with him, when they told their folk: Lo! we are guiltless of you and all that ye worship beside Allah. We have done with you. And there hath arisen between us and you hostility and hate for ever until ye believe in Allah only - save that which Abraham promised his father (when he said): I will ask forgiveness for thee, though I own nothing for thee from Allah - Our Lord! In Thee we put our trust, and unto Thee we turn repentant, and unto Thee is the journeying.

between us and you hostility and hate for ever until ye believe in Allah only

Unless i've missed the ayah that says to love your fellow man whatever they believe, allah hates me; and the principle of Al Wala' Wal Bara' requires you to hate me just as hard.

>>33339

>Nothing is true because you say it is.

It is if I know more about islam than you.

>And I don't need to 'make anything up

funny cuz its kuffar who invented that term

>I cannot hate anyone, even you.

You are a liar and between us is hatred until you leave polytheism. It's like saying you don't hate the rapist but hate the concept of rape only, that is silly, and polytheism is a greater injustice than rape, since it is against the Lord of creation.

>>33346

Yes that is true but I was explaining that verse to a brother to clarify things, normally I don't start with that in dawah, you just happened to lurk our thread. You can hate someone, but still be nice with them and want good for them you know. But I feel that you have bad intentions and get angry easily, as many christians do, they act peaceful and the moment we refute them they spam and raid our board.

>>33346

By what authority do you interpret that particular ayat? Did you read it in context of the whole of Surah 60 or did you just cafeteria out what you wanted to read? Did you form your own interpretation or did you see the thread on /christian/ and copypaste it?

You're the kind of guy who walks into a room full of engineers and tries to prove how smart you are because you read an article on the internet, aren't you …

>>33351

>It is if I know more about islam than you.

…if

>funny cuz its kuffar who invented that term

Technically true, but irrelevant

>You are a liar and between us is hatred until you leave polytheism.

I'd have to join first…

>It's like saying you don't hate the rapist but hate the concept of rape only, that is silly,

If someone close to me was raped, i'd find it difficult not to hate the rapist.

>…and polytheism is a greater injustice than rape, since it is against the Lord of creation

Don't downplay it, even killing isn't as bad as polytheism…

They ask you about the sacred month – about fighting therein. Say, “Fighting therein is great [sin], but averting [people] from the way of Allah and disbelief in Him and [preventing access to] al-Masjid al-Haram and the expulsion of its people therefrom are greater [evil] in the sight of Allah. And fitnah is greater than killing.” And they will continue to fight you until they turn you back from your religion if they are able. And whoever of you reverts from his religion [to disbelief] and dies while he is a disbeliever – for those, their deeds have become worthless in this world and the Hereafter, and those are the companions of the Fire, they will abide therein eternally.”

(Al-Baqarah: 217)

>>33352

>…you just happened to lurk our thread.

Okay.

>You can hate someone, but still be nice with them and want good for them you know.

Doesn't sound very hateful…

>But I feel that you have bad intentions and get angry easily, as many christians do, they act peaceful and the moment we refute them they spam and raid our board.

I have no intentions here, except to learn.

I'm not christian either. To save you any more guessing games, I firmly reject anything supernatural or spritual.

I'm not here to spam or raid, i've never visited /christian/ because the christians haven't done anything that have intrigued me enough to pick up a bible… but hey, your feelings are yours…

>>33356

>By what authority do you interpret that particular ayat? Did you read it in context of the whole of Surah 60 or did you just cafeteria out what you wanted to read? Did you form your own interpretation or did you see the thread on /christian/ and copypaste it?

1 O ye who believe! Choose not My enemy and your enemy for allies. Do ye give them friendship when they disbelieve in that truth which hath come unto you, driving out the messenger and you because ye believe in Allah, your Lord ? If ye have come forth to strive in My way and seeking My good pleasure, (show them not friendship). Do ye show friendship unto them in secret, when I am Best Aware of what ye hide and what ye proclaim ? And whosoever doeth it among you, he verily hath strayed from the right way.

2. If they have the upper hand of you, they will be your foes, and will stretch out their hands and their tongues toward you with evil (intent), and they long for you to disbelieve.

3. Your ties of kindred and your children will avail you naught upon the Day of Resurrection. He will part you. Allah is Seer of what ye do.

4. There is a goodly pattern for you in Abraham and those with him, when they told their folk: Lo! we are guiltless of you and all that ye worship beside Allah. We have done with you. And there hath arisen between us and you hostility and hate for ever until ye believe in Allah only - save that which Abraham promised his father (when he said): I will ask forgiveness for thee, though I own nothing for thee from Allah - Our Lord! In Thee we put our trust, and unto Thee we turn repentant, and unto Thee is the journeying.

5. Our Lord! Make us not a prey for those who disbelieve, and forgive us, our Lord! Lo! Thou, only Thou, are the Mighty, the Wise.

6. Verily ye have in them a goodly pattern for everyone who looketh to Allah and the Last Day. And whosoever may turn away, lo! still Allah, He is the Absolute, the Owner of Praise.

7. It may be that Allah will ordain love between you and those of them with whom ye are at enmity. Allah is Mighty, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

'…may'. Has he, though? Because my interjection ITT was a response to comments that indicate allah's ordainment of love hasn't gotten round to many of the congregation yet…

8 abr.

9 & 13 - my disbelief prevents us becoming friends, because i'm a wrong-doer.

The rest is mostly how to treat refugees.

What 'context' are you referring to? How is this helping?

Yes, it's copypasta of the pickthall translation, but it's not the only one I refer to. I've read more than an 'article,' btw.

>>33367

Captcha timed out, new id

>>33367

>Yes, it's copypasta of the pickthall translation

Therein lies the difference between being "smart" and being "educated". I believe you're probably a reasonably intelligent person who has lived in a bubble for too long. Nothing in Surah 60 tells me I have to hate you, but the bubble from where you get your information is telling you that. It's very much like my uneducated brothers who believe as you do - that it commands them to hate. They, too, may be intelligent, but their knowledge comes from a bubble. Education pops the bubble.

When I see Surah 60, I see the command to not let the enemies of Allah gain power over me. For example, I cannot allow someone who seeks to stop me from praying to gain authority over me. I should not work for a boss who will not let me take prayer times or attend a university that does not allow prayer on campus.

Do you seek to stop me from praying? Do you seek to disallow me from being Muslim? No, you don't. Therefor, you are not "my enemy". You may not be Muslim, but that doesn't automatically make you the "enemy of Allah".

60:9 clearly says "Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion". Is that you?

>>33367

You don't have enough islamic knowledge to tell us what islam is and isnt. You are invited to islam even if you dislike what it is. If you reject it you have only yourself to blame for your arrogant atheism.

>>33370

Stop being paranoid. I am aware that some people would happily kick you mid-salat or demolish your mosque, but that is just a tiny minority.

>>33375

I'm not trying to tell you what it is or is not, i'm reading the same books as you, but the same words seem to have different meanings…

>>33381

>Stop being paranoid.

Did you actually read what I posted? At all? Any of it?

>>33381

>>33385

It seems he has no reading comprehension.

>>33381

>the same words seem to have different meanings

That's because you seem to have no comprehension of the conditional.

The sentence is:

>If someone punches you in the face, burn down their house.

But all you read is:

>burn down their house

It's a common problem among the mentally disabled.

>>33388

>>33387

This is priceless. I'm getting called 'mentally disabled' by people who believe in flying donkeys…

>>33396

Well, I think you've just proven their point. You're refusing to engage with the one person who is actually trying to discuss with you, opting instead to focus on the casual insults from people who would rather you just leave.

Why do you focus so much on the negative?

>>33396

You literally cannot read. That is a fact to anyone here.

>>33400

(I apologise for not replying to your earlier comments with the respect and decorum they deserved, let me retry…)

>Why do you focus so much on the negative?

Because in my opinion, hatred is negative.

The two comments that prompted me to comment:

>It's ok to hate jews and kuffar in general.

>Hatred, like any feeling or action should be done for the sake of Allah (swt),

In my opinion, formed from authentic islamic sources and not from (insert publication/racist e-celeb), neither statement is incorrect from an islamic perspective.

It's not just a couple of verses from a single page taken out of context, there are numerous verses throughout the Quran prohibiting any meaningful friendship with non-muslims, even if they are your father… i'm not going to list them, I'll assume you've read it.

I'm also going to assume that you are aware of the reliable hadiths that repeat and reinforce the commands of your prophet.

Yes, I know, I don't know enough about islam etc, I should seek a muslim scholar for a better understanding.

so… according to Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan,

>There is nothing wrong with visiting kaafirs in order to call them to Islam. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) visited his paternal uncle Abu Taalib when he was dying and called him to Islam, and he visited the Jewish boy and called him to Islam.

>But visiting kaafirs in order to have a good time with them is not permitted, because it is obligatory to hate them and shun them. It is permissible to accept their gifts because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) accepted gifts from some of the kaafirs, such as the gift from al-Muqawqis the ruler of Egypt. But it is not permissible to congratulate them on the occasion of their festivals because this implies befriending them and approving of their falsehood.

>Al-Muntaqa min Fataawa al-Shaykh al-Fawzaan, 1/255

>And Allaah knows best.

obligatory to hate them and shun them

…and according to Muhammad al-Munajid,

>the message of our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), rather they reject the Qur’aan and they reject our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); so how can a Muslim be inclined towards them with their kufr and misguidance?

>Even if they give you some of your rights by treating you nicely, they do not give Allaah His rights and they do not give the Qur’aan its rights and they do not give our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) his rights. The rights of Allaah and His Book and His Prophet are more important than our personal rights. Remember this, for this is one of the things that will help you to hate them and regard them as enemies until they believe in Allaah alone, as mentioned in the aayah quoted above (interpretation of the meaning): [Quotes Quran 60:4]

help you to hate them and regard them as enemies until they believe in Allaah alone

And, yes, you believe that an eternity of torture awaits me when I die. And that's fine. I honestly don't mind. I believe anyone can believe and think whatever they want. I don't want you to stop being muslim, but that will not change islam's attitude toward me, or the rest of the non-muslim world.

>>33408

Nice.

>>33412

>And, yes, you believe that an eternity of torture awaits me when I die. And that's fine. I honestly don't mind. I believe anyone can believe and think whatever they want. I don't want you to stop being muslim, but that will not change islam's attitude toward me, or the rest of the non-muslim world.

That's true but we still invite you to worship Allah(swt) alone and stop being an arrogant mushrik. We TOLD you what needs to be done to avoid the fire and you KNOW what needs to be done. Yet you reject it because it hurt your feelings? That is a non argument. Simply NOT a logical argument. You may not like it, but it does not mean our attitude is illogical or false.

As sheikh fawzan said we can invite you to islam nicely, because that is the greatest sign of love because we WANT you in jannah inshallah. As a magnet opposes all opposites of it same is for truth, truth must oppose every falsehood by it's nature, all different falsehoods will have a common hatred for truth, only truth is unique in that aspect. As all the enemies of Islam hate monotheism, from the jew & christian, to hindus and buddhists.

>>33412

Why not looking at the tafseer rather than translation?

THE PERMISSIBILITY OF BEING KIND TO DISBELIEVERS WHO DO NOT FIGHT AGAINST THE RELIGION AND ALLAH'S STATEMENT;

﴿ لَّا يَنۡهَٮٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمۡ يُقَـٰتِلُوكُمۡ فِى ٱلدِّينِ وَلَمۡ يُخۡرِجُوكُم مِّن دِيَـٰرِكُمۡ ﴾

(Allah does not forbid you with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes,) means, those who did not have a role in your expulsion. Therefore, Allah does not forbid you from being kind to the disbelievers who do not fight you because of the religion, such as women and weak disbelievers,

﴿ أَن تَبَرُّوهُمۡ ﴾

(to deal kindly) to be gentle with them,

﴿ وَتُقۡسِطُوٓاْ إِلَيۡہِمۡ‌ۚ ﴾

(and justly with those) to be fair with them

﴿ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُقۡسِطِينَ ﴾

(Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity.) Imam Ahmad recorded that Asma' bint Abu Bakr said, "My mother, who was an idolatress at the time, came to me during the Treaty of Peace, the Prophet conducted with the Quraysh. I came to the Prophet and said, `O Allah's Messenger! My mother came visiting, desiring something from me, should I treat her with good relations' The Prophet said,

« نَعَمْ صِلِي أُمَّك »

(Yes. Keep good relation with your mother.)'' The Two Sahihs recorded this Hadith. Imam Ahmad recorded that `Abdullah bin Zubayr said, "Qutaylah came visiting her daughter, Asma' bint Abi Bakr, with some gifts, such as Dibab, cheese and clarified (cooking) butter, and she was an idolatress at that time. Asma' refused to accept her mother's gifts and did not let her enter her house. `A'ishah asked the Prophet about his verdict and Allah sent down the Ayah,

﴿ لَّا يَنۡهَٮٰكُمُ ٱللَّهُ عَنِ ٱلَّذِينَ لَمۡ يُقَـٰتِلُوكُمۡ فِى ٱلدِّينِ ﴾

(Allah does not forbid you with those who fought not against you on account of religion) until the end of the Ayah. Allah's Messenger ordered Asma' to accept her mother's gifts and to let her enter her house.'' Allah's statement,

﴿ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ يُحِبُّ ٱلۡمُقۡسِطِينَ ﴾

(Allah loves those who deal with equity.) was duly explained in the Tafsir of Surat Al-Hujurat. We also mentioned the authentic Hadith,

« الْمُقْسِطُونَ عَلى مَنَابِرَ مِنْ نُورٍ عَنْ يَمِينِ الْعَرْشِ، الَّذِينَ يَعْدِلُونَ فِي حُكْمِهِمْ وَأَهَالِيهِمْ وَمَا وَلُوا »

(The just, who are fair in their decisions, families and those under their authority, will be on podiums made of light, to the right of the Throne.)

http://www.recitequran.com/tafsir/en.ibn-kathir/60:9

I will add:

O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm for Allah , witnesses in justice, and DO NOT let the HATRED of a people prevent you from being JUST. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is Acquainted with what you do. (5:8)

This is my position, ultimately.

>>33412

First of all, we do not hate like you do. Islam teaches us to be fair to even those that we are supposed to hate. Those who are actually able to comprehend this can clearly see the wisdom and generosity behind these rulings that help us be firm in our faith and at the same time prevent us from being too arrogant. The fact that this sounds so outlandish to you is proof of your own botched mindset.

Having said that, what makes you think that in order to live side by side,without conflict, we must love you? The kuffar do not love Islam. In fact, they constantly joke about it. They attack it. You yourself have shown this behaviour in this very thread. Where does this sense of entitlement come from? What makes you think that you lot have the right to think whatever you want about us and what we hold dear but that we don't have the right to hate you for it? You view us as subhumans. And when you see that we hate this side of you, when you see that we see through your masks, you immediately start projecting and attack us. In truth, such an image of us, in your mind, reveals more about your own personality than ours.

Before you point fingers at others, look at yourself in the mirror.

You believe yourselves to be rational, yet your actions and words clearly show that you're nothing more than hypocrites that are swayed by emotions from time to time. We on the other hand, know that hatred needs to be tempered by moderacy, firmness must be tempered with kindness, anger must be tempered with patience, feeling must be tempered with logic, logic must be tempered with circumstances and reality, rhetoric must be tempered with facts, so on and so forth.

We will strive to separate ourselves from your lot. Because that is the realistic thing to do. That is the best thing to do. For our sake and for your sake. We are very much aware of the concept of actions and consequence. Unlike your lot, we do not deny reality to be more comfortable. Rather, we face reality head on.

I don't believe you to be a child, nor do I believe you to be unable to comprehend things that are handed out to you in the most elementary way possible(if you actually try, that is). The others here have spent more time on you than you probably deserve. If you still choose to brush aside everything they've said so far, you yourself are the only one accountable.

>>33423

>botched mindset

…I didn't say we cannot coexist unless we love each other, I said we cannot coexist until you stop hating non-muslims.

And, no matter how you try to spin it, hatred is never a good thing. An outward display of respect is merely a facade.

>What makes you think that you lot have the right to think whatever you want about us and what we hold dear but that we don't have the right to hate you for it?

Our thoughts are our own, and you do not have the right to police them.

I have no control over your reactionary outbursts.

>You view us as subhumans.

No. Islam views kuffar as subhumans, allah says so. Many times.

>And when you see that we hate this side of you, when you see that we see through your masks, you immediately start projecting and attack us. In truth, such an image of us, in your mind, reveals more about your own personality than ours.

I don't have an image of you. I understand how islam directs your thoughts and actions.

>Before you point fingers at others, look at yourself in the mirror.

I'm not the one with hatred issues. I don't avoid people who are different. I don't want an apocalypse.

>you're nothing more than hypocrites

I refer you to your 'subhumans' comment.

I hate to quote goebbels, but you are accusing your enemy of that which you are guilty of yourselves. You're no different to the jew, who cries out in pain as they strike you.

>>33436

>still shamelessly projecting this hard

I'd ask you to read that comment again, and again, and a third time, just to be sure.

Hypocrite, that you are, you exopse yourself through your own words. Any sensible person can see what you typed in the first paragraph, compare it with what you wrote in the second; and clearly see the ridiculousness in it.

The last paragraph, coupled with your "no u"+"subhuman" comments, once again, shows just how botched your own mindset really is. You're also probably the type of person that thinks saying someone is genetically predisposed to liking mayonnaise is exactly as racist as saying that someone is genetically predisposed to murder, theft, rape, etc.

All of this, in essence, is a result of your entitlement and feeling of self worth. You like to act like a victim while at the same time, accuse those around you of doing it. Hence, you decided to post the ludicrous things that you did in the third part of your comment.

Ironically enough, this is why what you wrote in the last part of your comment applies more to you than it does to us.

Everyone can see these comments. And I do not believe that the 100% of people who see these comments are simply as stupid as to not understand what's going on in here. There are many, like me, that have spent countless hours in the forums, boards, chatrooms, etc. that your lot inhabits. Where the kuffar speak freely amongst themselves. See, unlike you, we say the same thing to outsiders that we say amongst ourselves instead of feeling the need to throw around those dog whistles.(some of which you yourself threw around in here).

So best take what we said clearly, directly and bluntly. Instead of constanty spewing memes along the lines of "hurr, you are lying, I know your taqqiya!"

Like I said before, the people here have bothered to be more invested than they should've been with someone like you. So actually read what they've posted instead of throwing around regurgitated, baseless, crap that we've heard many times before.

Your personal "interpretations" regarding our religion, do not matter to us, because from your comments, it is abundently clear that when you read from our sources, you interpret them according to your own preconceived notions instead of even trying to understand the comments that we provide along with it.

>>33436

The quran also tells us the kaffir hates islam and will never accept us until we leave islam or join their way of life. Point still stands, accept islam, your fee fees are not a valid argument.

>>33452

That's a lot of words to make zero valid points…

>>33463

>The quran also tells us the kaffir hates islam and will never accept us until we leave islam or join their way of life.

Is that correct though? Have you considered the possibility that not every non-muslim is a hateful ass?

You realise that statement is no different to the 'all muslims are terrorists' trope?

>Point still stands, accept islam, your fee fees are not a valid argument.

No. There is no logical reason to.

>>33472

Indulge my curiosity: Why are you here? Is there a purpose or are you just here to argue?

>>33473

>why am I here?

It's a publicly accessible imageboard.

>Is there a purpose or are you just here to argue?

Already stated that i'm here to learn. A discussion was inevitable.

>>33474

>i'm here to learn

What have you learned?

>discussion

"Nuh uh!"

"NO U"

"I'm right and you're stupid"

Not exactly discussion. These are all things you've done since coming here. So, I ask again: Why are you here?

>>33472

The logical reason is that we are the property of Allah and we should do as He says. There's no other alternative, we were not created for fun and games, most people on earth without a purpose are depressed and filthy because they turn their backs on Him. We are created simply to worship the Lord until death, and by his grace and mercy alone we are admitted to paradise.

>>33475

>What have you learned?

That the basic minimum of respect toward your fellow humans who choose not to believe is not beneath islam.

>"Nuh uh!"

>"NO U"

>"I'm right and you're stupid"

>Not exactly discussion. These are all things you've done since coming here. So, I ask again: Why are you here?

Nice paraphrasing.

>>33478

See, when you don't believe, none of that is logical. Your 'logic' is based solely upon faith.

>>33483

So, you're not here to learn. You're here to ridicule. Maybe you should move on to the Christians. They're a lot more fun to rile up. We just end up shrugging and ignoring you.

>>33484

Exposing your riduculous strawman, maybe.

Any more choice phrases you'd like to put in my mouth, because it's easier than addressing any actual issues, right?

>>33485

You don't have any actual issues. All you have is "I hate Islam. Prove me wrong!"

>>33486

Not quite; islam hates me, prove me wrong.

>>33487

You've already been proven wrong about that, you just choose to think your personal interpretation is the right one instead of listening to the actual Muslims on this board.

>>33487

This >>33490 . Besides, you picked two scholars' opinion out of dozens more. Sauds have as much as authority as other muslim countries, and not all are aligned with them, even from the same sect.

>>33490

Are 'the muslims on this board' scholars?

Do your opinions constitute 'consensus'?

I am not interpreting islam in any way. I am not qualified to offer fatwas based on the quran, hadith, scholarly consensus or analogy… so I refer to those that are…

>narrated that Ibn ‘Umar may Allaah be pleased with them swore that if he fasted every day and prayed throughout every night and then woke up in the morning without loving the people who obey Allaah The Almighty and hating those who disobey Him, then he would fear that Allaah The Almighty would cast him into Hell.

http://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/15087/the-heart-cannot-contain-belief-in-allaah-and-love-for-his-enemies

>It is among the requirements of the faith of a believer that he should hate the people of Kufr (disbelief) in the same manner that he hates Kufr itself. This is what is stated in religious texts, and we have already mentioned some of them in fatwa 88293

http://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/329059/hating-kufr-and-kaafirs-in-light-of-verses-5822-and-608

Allah, may He be exalted, loves those who believe, hence He makes faith dear to them. And He hates those who disbelieve and disobey Him, unless they repent. If Allah helps a person to believe and makes faith dear to his heart, and makes the believers dear to him and makes him dear to them, and he lives and dies following that, then he is one of those whom Allah loves.

But if Allah makes faith and obedience hateful to a person, and He makes disobedience dear to his heart, and he makes those who are disobedient dear to him and makes him dear to them, and he lives and dies following that, then he is one of those whom Allah hates.

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/192976/we-know-the-signs-of-allahs-love-for-his-slave-what-are-the-signs-of-allahs-hatred-towards-his-slave

Being respectful or even showing an approximation of kindness toward kuffar is not in violation of shariah. Not hating kuffar, is.

>>33487

Not an argument. What's your point? If something hates me it can't be true? False.

>>33501

You're cherry picking to give yourself confirmation bias. You chose 2 fatwas out of millions because they fit your narrative of "everybody hates me".

Maybe you should stop playing victim and realize that it's only you who hates you.

>>33514

… you might be on to something there, and admittedly, I searched the fatwas for "hatred" and it didn't take long to find the three examples above.

So, I searched again, but this time I searched for the opposite, "love", and could not find any for the kuffar. So I tried again with "love the kuffar" - and only found more confirmation that islam is biased…

http://islamweb.net/en/fatwa/363049/

http://islamweb.net/en/fatwa/361090/baraa-is-declared-against-non-muslims-only

http://islamweb.net/en/fatwa/363841/admiring-good-quality-in-disbeliever-or-sinner

http://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/89190/

http://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/87176/

http://www.islamweb.net/en/fatwa/384016/limits-of-befriending-non-muslims

And then there's this, which expressly forbids love for kuffar

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/182/ruling-on-loving-non-muslims

And this

https://islamqa.info/en/answers/671/in-love-with-a-none-believer

I also thought to check the islamic law book but could not find any reference to loving non-believers.

So, where did I err by saying "islam is the religion of hate"?

>…fit your narrative of "everybody hates me".

>Maybe you should stop playing victim and realize that it's only you who hates you.

Being facetious is not helping, and you should stop it.

>>33517

Again, you're searching based on your personal narrative. I thought you were here to learn. You obviously think you already know everything, so why would anyone here help you?

>>33518

Not him but…

>Hate…wrong for being biased

>Love…wrong for being biased

Is there some kind of spectrum outside of logic to prove a point to a Muslim or will you be offended no matter what he says?

>>33521

It's not a matter of being offended. It's a matter of "I already know everything, but I totally came here to learn. For serious. Trust me!" If you're gonna act like a concern troll, you'll get treated like one.

>>32942

>i cant see him, like if he was the devil himself

it is because they are his children - Jesus of Nazareth, son of Mary said this.

and it is good that you do not hate them, but stay away from them and also keep your family safe.

>>33526

>Jesus of Nazareth, son of Mary said this.

[citation needed]

>>33527

KJV Matthew 23, 15

>Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

>b-but it's fake

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.

>>33522

I have never claimed omniscience.

I'm learning about muslims attitudes toward non-muslims, your input has been quite revelatory, thanks anon.

>>33535

>KJV

Opinion discarded. Did you forget that you're on /islam/?

>>33537

>muslims attitudes toward non-muslims

It's not a matter of that. If you're going to be a dick about things, then nobody is going to like you no matter what the religion.

>>33539

>It's not a matter of that.

It is exactly that.

If someone hated you, not because of anything you'd done, but because of what you believe, would that be okay?

No, it wouldn't. It'd be a 'hate crime'.

So why is it okay for muslims to hate everyone else, because of what they don't believe?

Your collective infidelophobia and double standards are disgusting.

>nobody is going to like you

Pass me a tissue…

>>33541

I'm going to say this to you one last time, though I doubt it will sink in: Nobody hates you because of what you believe. Judging by how you act here, people probably hate you because you're a smug jackass; but not for what you believe or don't believe.

You're claiming vast and superior knowledge because you make a couple of 30 second searches on a Salafi website, but don't realize that Salafi make up <5% of the world's Muslims. You're not hated because of your religion. You're hated because you're a dick.

>>33542

>smug jackass

>dick

I take it you are resorting to ad-hominems because you have nothing else?

>>33544

It's not ad hominem when it's the truth.

>>33546

>Nothing is true just because you say it is.

But you don't think that applies to you because you clearly believe everything is true because you say it is.

>>33535

The bible is not a valid islamic source. At best it is considered a very very weak unchained hadith. Only used for polemic debate purposes with christians and dawah to them.

>>33541

>If someone hated you, not because of anything you'd done, but because of what you believe, would that be okay?

Yes, some ppl hate nazis, some hate commies, some hate liberals, ect.. What is a man other than the sum of ideas i.e ideology?

>>33542

Brother don't let this kaffir get on your nerves and divide us muslims. We might have differences of opinion but we all agree on quran and sunnah.

You do realize that Islam is a direct derivative of Judaism right?