63e17d No.32578
“The most important commandment is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
What need is there for further revelation than this?
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634a0e No.32585
>>32578
There is more to Allah's commandments than these.
>>32581
I admit, I chuckled.
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63e17d No.32588
>>32585
So you disagree with this scripture? It is also written that on these two commandments hang all the laws and the prophets.
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634a0e No.32589
>>32588
Show me in Qur'an and I'll agree. If you're quoting some idiotic thing from Matthew or Paul, then you can go ☻ yourself.
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63e17d No.32590
>>32589
Do you doubt that Isa said these things then? That's ok. I'm just wondering. There are similar (but not identical) statements in Hadith.
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634a0e No.32591
>>32590
REPEAT: Show me in Qur'an.
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634a0e No.32592
>>32590
Look, I'm all good with Jesus. I loooove me some Jesus. He was a beautiful man, a beautiful prophet. He said some of the most beautiful things in the world.
But …
Qur'an is the final testament.
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63e17d No.32595
>>32591
>>32592
If Isa said these words then I'm not sure that I believe in the need for further prophecy or a final testament, because this seems like proper worship. And I say this not as a Christian but as a questioning Muslim.
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6d412d No.32602
>>32595
>What need is there for further revelation than this?
He never said these are the only commandments, just the greatest ones.
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63e17d No.32608
>>32602
"All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
This doctrine is appealing also. What do I want of Allah but love? And what does God want but for us to treat our brother with perfect kindness?
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6d412d No.32610
>>32608
Yes, the law hangs on it because it is the fundamentals of monotheism, all your actions are useless if you don't believe in one God. But once you do accept monotheism, you must hold to all the commandments, including those that apply to daily like like for food, hygiene, clothing, marriage, charity, prayer ect.. You need the practical aspect as well, to prove you love God and obey him, you would do his commands. God wants you to worship him first and foremost, and the fruits of this comes good manners.
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dee323 No.32617
>>32578
>‘Hear, O Israel…
>What need is there for further revelation than this?
Perhaps revelation that addresses mankind and not just Israel. Also as you can see, the (supposed) israelites or jews don't even follow this commandment hence Prophethood was given to a better nation more fit to spread the message to the world.
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63e17d No.32621
>>32610
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I am receptive to the notion of attention to details. But is doing everything in your power to raise up your brother as yourself, and paying close attention to the details of the enterprise of kindness, not proof in itself that you love God?
>>32617
Every Muslim, Christian, and Jew acknowledges that God comes to Israel first that the entire world might be blessed, through faith. I reject the notion of a "better nation" than Israel simply because every nation is unique, and none are perfect.
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dee323 No.32622
>>32621
>God comes to Israel first
What are you on about now? There were earlier Prophets, genius. And the jews aren't spreading faith to anyone, they're the most atheist apostate nation on earth, only spreading fawahish.
>I reject the notion of a "better nation" than Israel
كُنتُمْ خَيْرَ أُمَّةٍ أُخْرِجَتْ لِلنَّاسِ تَأْمُرُونَ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ وَتَنْهَوْنَ عَنِ الْمُنكَرِ وَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ
ألا إنكم توفون سبعين أمة أنتم خيرها وأكرمها على الله عز وجل
>I'm totally just a """"questioning Muslim""" guys.
You people have no shame. Despicable.
إن مما أدرك الناس من كلام النبوة الأولى إذا لم تستح فاصنع ما شئت
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63e17d No.32624
>>32622
Even you believe I am a Muslim.
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63e17d No.32625
>>32622
I know modern Jews don't spread faith. Obviously. Talking about Ancient Israel, brother.
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634a0e No.32627
>>32624
Well, you did post this thread >>32488 just 3 days ago.
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63e17d No.32628
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6d412d No.32629
>>32621
>But is doing everything in your power to raise up your brother as yourself, and paying close attention to the details of the enterprise of kindness, not proof in itself that you love God?
No, you do things on God's terms, not yours, you don't define what is a good deed, God does.
>>32628
You seem disingenuous then, if you claim to be a convert, then ask if you can kill your own dad, and now lecture us on how commandments aren't necessary? If you are a christian troll I recommend staying in your board.
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63e17d No.32630
>>32629
>No, you do things on God's terms, not yours, you don't define what is a good deed, God does.
Even if we have guidance it's inescapable in life that we also must use judgment alongside it.
>>32629
Sorry if you think I'm disingenuous. Not my intention. I do harbour rage towards my father, and am not trying to lecture, but to learn.
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634a0e No.32636
>>32630
>not trying to lecture, but to learn
If you're trying to learn, then you can't argue when we tell you that 1+1=2. We're not a LARPing meme board. We are actual Muslims in the real world who pray 5 times a day, go to mosque, and live Muslim lives - NOT just online. Some of us have been Muslim all our lives while others of us converted in adulthood (I personally converted to Islam in 2004, when I was 32 years old). We're not a bunch of kids playing pretend.
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63e17d No.32637
>>32636
Trust me…neither am I. I am here to learn, nothing more, nothing less.
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6d412d No.32638
>>32637
Doesn't seem like it. Seems like you are trying to avoid responsibility of actually practicing Islam. If you want to live on the fence and follow your desires then you are being dishonest.
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63e17d No.32641
>>32638
Even you admit that my decision is days old. But I have found that even self-identifying as Muslim changes the way I think. That's part of how I know Muhammad was of God. My "desires" are to submit to the will of God. Have no question about this.
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6d412d No.32644
>>32641
Then why are you looking at the bible instead of the quran?
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63e17d No.32646
>>32644
Are Muslims not to compare books?
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634a0e No.32648
>>32646
We have 4 holy texts. Torah, Psalms, Gospel, and Qur'an. Qur'an is the final authority, so anything in the previous texts that contradicts Qur'an is to be disregarded because they have been corrupted.
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63e17d No.32649
>>32648
Now we're getting somewhere. Does loving Allah and our brother with all our might violate Qur'an?
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634a0e No.32652
>>32649
No, but those aren't the ONLY commandments. They're just stated as the most important ones. They are incredibly important, but there's a whole bunch of other things we're supposed to do - like prayer, submission, charity, fasting on Ramadan, and so forth. We're also supposed to avoid certain foods (like pork and intoxicants) and keep our modesty and obey the Prophets.
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63e17d No.32653
>>32652
Understood. And if we prioritize the first two commandments (because they're easier to combine with a hectic modern life) while skimping the lesser ones, are we forgiven?
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634a0e No.32654
>>32653
If you commit a sin, you are forgiven just by asking. If you plan on sinning, then you are destined for hellfire. You don't get to pick and choose. Islam is not a cafeteria.
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63e17d No.32655
>>32654
If my time is limited, as all of ours is, and I have many commitments to many different people that all rely on me with their life, as I do, such that I don't have time to obey commandments 3,4,5,…, while still intending to learn how to be the perfect Muslim in a perfect world once I get the time, where does that leave us? And if you want to accuse me of insincerely stating that I want to be the best Muslim possible, try me.
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634a0e No.32656
>>32655
Your obligation to God far outweighs your obligation to anything or anyone else.
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63e17d No.32658
>>32656
Even so, if God's "most important" aim in offering us guidance is that we might help our brother as ourself, then do we not at least recognize the tension between this and other commandments, especially given that modern technology affords us an infinite number of opportunities to help people at every second of every day?
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634a0e No.32659
>>32658
Like I said, you don't get to pick and choose. If you are drawn to Islam, the first thing you have to do is submit yourself 100% to God. It is equal parts love and fear. Nobody in this world controls your immortal soul, but God can punish you with horrifying tortures for as long as he sees fit. If you have to make a choice between anything and God, you better choose God.
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63e17d No.32660
>>32659
Point received. I'm diving in.
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63e17d No.32661
>>32659
However, surely also you recognize regional differences in Muslim observance throughout the world. There is no unifying body to forcefully monitor observance as there is with the Mormon Church, for example.
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634a0e No.32662
>>32661
God is always watching. That's all the unifying body I need.
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63e17d No.32663
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6d412d No.32664
>>32653
>while skimping the lesser ones, are we forgiven?
no you will never be, since abandoning the prayer is considered apostasy
>>32655
>I don't have time to obey commandments
I'm sure you have time to pray 5 times a day like any regular muslim.
>>32661
Nobody can monitor or force you, but you have to do the 5 daily prayers, fast on ramadan, pay zakat if you have savings and do the hajj if you have the money. Islam is simple not complicated.
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63e17d No.32665
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