/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

>>29961

Is your intent to prove that the kaaba is a "cube of saturn" or disprove it? What is the purpose of this research?

>>29962

It's not to prove or disprove it's to find out if is or not because I'm not fully convinced

>>29963

Well, it's not a cube of saturn. So, there you go. It's not even a true cube. It's 13m high and the sides are 11m x 12m. Of course, it's been torn down and rebuilt so many times by now that it's virtually impossible to know the original dimensions. The kiswah originally changed colors every year. Before becoming black, the kiswah was green and was changed to black somewhere around 1200. It's been black ever since.

Its just the first mosque, don't overthink it.

When it was originally built by Abraham and Ishmael it was rectangle shaped. Later, when the Quarish restored and rebuilt the kabaa, they ran out of money, so they reduced it’s size to a cube shape. The Prophet PBUH related a hadith about this.

Narrated / Authority Of: Aisha

(the wife of the Prophet) that Allah's Apostle said to her, "Do you know that when your people (Quraish) rebuilt the Ka'ba, they decreased it from its original foundation laid by Abraham?" I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Why don't you rebuild it on its original foundation laid by Abraham?" He replied, "Were it not for the fact that your people are close to the pre-lslamic Period of ignorance (i.e. they have recently become Muslims) I would have done so." The sub-narrator, 'Abdullah (bin 'Umar ) stated: 'Aisha 'must have heard this from Allah's Apostle for in my opinion Allah's Apostle had not placed his hand over the two corners of the Ka'ba opposite Al-Hijr only because the Ka'ba was not rebuilt on its original foundations laid by Abraham.

Later on, A Muslim ruler heard of this hadith and rebuilt the Kabaa as a rectangle, as it was originally built by Abraham. Then another Islamic leader came and destroyed the Kabaa and rebuilt it as a cube. Later people contemplated rebuilding it on the foundations of Abraham but the ruler at the time decided that he was going to leave it, so that future people didn’t keep coming and destroying and rebuilding the kabaa.

I remember reading all of that but I don’t remember the peoples names. It should be easy to find it mentioned in literature about the history of the kabaa.

If you weren’t doing research to try and prove that Muslims and possibly all religions are worshiping some rock with rings around it orbiting our sun, I might have looked up sources for you. Maybe you should read the Quran to learn the true meaning of Islam.

>>29978

Okay, so I read that the word "Kaabaa" can translate as "cube". Is this true?

And if the word Kaabaa translates to cube this could mean the Kaabaa was originally a cube because the Qu'ran in some verses in the Arabic refers to the sacred place for Muslims as "Kaabaa" (i.e cube).

Here are some examples:

#1

>O you who have believed, do not kill game while you are in the state of ihram. And whoever of you kills it intentionally - the penalty is an equivalent from sacrificial animals to what he killed, as judged by two just men among you as an offering [to Allah ] delivered to the Ka'bah, or an expiation: the feeding of needy people or the equivalent of that in fasting, that he may taste the consequence of his deed. Allah has pardoned what is past; but whoever returns [to violation], then Allah will take retribution from him. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Owner of Retribution.

>يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَقْتُلُوا الصَّيْدَ وَأَنتُمْ حُرُمٌ ۚ وَمَن قَتَلَهُ مِنكُم مُّتَعَمِّدًا فَجَزَاءٌ مِّثْلُ مَا قَتَلَ مِنَ النَّعَمِ يَحْكُمُ بِهِ ذَوَا عَدْلٍ مِّنكُمْ هَدْيًا بَالِغَ الْكَعْبَةِ أَوْ كَفَّارَةٌ طَعَامُ مَسَاكِينَ أَوْ عَدْلُ ذَ‌ٰلِكَ صِيَامًا لِّيَذُوقَ وَبَالَ أَمْرِهِ ۗ عَفَا اللَّهُ عَمَّا سَلَفَ ۚ وَمَنْ عَادَ فَيَنتَقِمُ اللَّهُ مِنْهُ ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ ذُو انتِقَامٍ

>الْكَعْبَةِ (Al Kaabaa)

(Qu'ran 5:95)

#2

>Allah has made the Ka'bah, the Sacred House, standing for the people and [has sanctified] the sacred months and the sacrificial animals and the garlands [by which they are identified]. That is so you may know that Allah knows what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and that Allah is Knowing of all things.

>۞ جَعَلَ اللَّهُ الْكَعْبَةَ الْبَيْتَ الْحَرَامَ قِيَامًا لِّلنَّاسِ وَالشَّهْرَ الْحَرَامَ وَالْهَدْيَ وَالْقَلَائِدَ ۚ ذَ‌ٰلِكَ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ يَعْلَمُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ

>>الْكَعْبَةِ (Al Kaabaa)

(Qu'ran 5:95)

>>29964

>Before becoming black, the kiswah was green and was changed to black somewhere around 1200.

Why did they change it? Why has no one else tried to change it? Who changed it?

>>29979

Depends on your definition of "god(s)". People/socities have their own definition of what a "god" is. If we went back in time with all this tech I'm sure a lot of ancient people would consider us gods and worship us, even though they're just like us execpt we're slightly more advanced, and we're just as evil and hedonistic as many of them. There is other "higher" beings that are advanced than us spiritually and stuff and many people don't consider them gods like Muslims an Christians which I personally agree with. Anyway this is getting off topic.

>>29980

I'm not doing research to prove or disprove anything I'm doing research to find out.

>>29978

Oh yeah thanks for the Hadith very intresting stuff.

Okay so now that I think about it all the verses that refer to the Mosque as "Kaabaa" are not refering to the past but to the future/present rullings

so it is not refering it could not have oriignally been a cube.

>>29981

The Quran verses you mentioned are not referring to a “cube”. They are referring to the Kabba, or sacred house. The Kabba is believed to be the first house of worship established on Earth. It is disputed whether or not Abraham was the first to build it, or if he was rebuilding another ancient structure. In Islam, we believe that God has sent messengers to humanity since the beginning. The Prophet PBUH has related that God has sent over 300,000 messengers throughout the ages. They all came with the same, universal message. God is one and he is the only one deserving worship. So worship God alone, do good deeds and avoid evil deeds. After you die you are going to be brought back and held to account for everything that you have done. Over time, as is the general nature of humans, the message gets distorted and people start worshiping other things and inventing false practices in religion. The Prophet Muhammad PBUH was sent with the miracle of the Quran, which is the literal word of God. He was the last Prophet to be sent, with the same message as all the other Prophets, including Jesus, and the Quran can and will stand as a living miracle until the day of Resurrection.

You sound like you have been influenced by some of the new age religious movements focusing on sacred geometry and things like that? Even if you look at the flower of life pattern it shows that there can only be one source of all creation. So why would someone not devote all of their worship to the one creator and sustainer of all existence, Allah. Allah means “The One God”.

>>29984

What does the Arabic word Kabba translate to? I.e what is the etymology of the word Kabba.

>>29985

I don’t know. I am pretty sure it is not translatable, it is a building. In the Quran there are several verses that mention it as “the sacred house”. The word Kabaa and the “the sacred house” seem to be interchangeable. I don’t know for sure, you would probably have to ask someone who is fluent with classical Arabic.

>>29985

There's a difference between "ka'bah" and "the Ka'bah" The word itself does literally translate to "cube", but that's in reference to ALL cubes. When referring to the mosque itself we usually use the term "al-Bayt"; but even if the word "ka'bah" is used, it's a matter of context.

It's like the English word "house". There are many, many houses in the world, but when you say, "I need to go by the house and pick up my keys.", it is understood that "the house" means a specific house - yours.

>>29978

We should rebuild it based on a golden ratio rectangle.

The kaaba is a pagan shrine for stone deities, the black stone is Allah, the supreme rock god of the pagan quraysh. The black draping has an unknown meaning, but it's honestly unlikely to be saturn seeing as how the ancient arabs did not have much in the way of astronomy.

>>30727

t. pagan trini-mushrik

>>30727

You have to go back.

>>30727

stick worshiper plz

>>30735

the phylacteries are only described in the talmud

>>30736

The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings: (Quran 2:96)

In Psalm 84 it says:

4 Blessed are those who dwell in your house;

they are ever praising you. Selah

5 Blessed are those whose strength is in you,

who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.

6 As they pass through the Valley of Baca,

they make it a place of springs;

the autumn rains also cover it with pools.

7 They go from strength to strength,

till each appears before God in Zion. (Psalm 84:6)

Mecca has the spring of Zamzam beside the Kaaba which is a huge spring that has been producing water continuously for more than 1400 years and the pipelines transporting Zamzam water to Al Madina (about 400 km north), which is even an independent miracle in that blessed place. And it rains there.

Might add:

Genesis 22

And Abraham stretched forth his hand and took the knife to cut off his son. And the Angel of the Lord called to him from the heavens, and said, Abraham, Abraham! And he said, Behold, I am. And he said to him, Stretch not out thy hand upon the youth, neither do any thing to him: for now I know that thou fearest the Lord, and that thou hast not spared thy only son[25] for Me. And Abraham lifted up his eyes after these (words), and saw, and behold, one ram, holden in the bush by his horns. And Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him for a burnt offering instead of his son. And Abraham worshipped and prayed there in that place, and said before the Lord, Here shall generations worship: wherefore it shall be paid in that day, In this mountain Abraham worshipped before the Lord.[26] And the Angel of the Lord called to Abraham the second time from the heavens, and said, By my Word have I sworn, saith the Lord, because thou hast done this thing, and hast not spared thy only son, therefore, blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thy sons as the stars of heaven and as the sand which is on the sea shore; and thy sons shall inherit the cities of their enemies.

sounds like Ishmaelites to me, so be careful what you mock

>>30738

the house is the first temple which is in jerusalem

>>30741

Ishmael (as) is blessed and will birth a great nation (ummah):

Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you : behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

Ishmael lived a holy life in arabia:

Genesis 21:20 And God was with the lad, and he grew. And he dwelt in the wilderness, and became, as he grew up, an archer. Gen 21:21 And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran. And his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.

God was with the lad, etc. — Paran (that is, Arabia), where his posterity has ever dwelt (compare Gen_16:12; also Isa_48:19; 1Pe_1:25). (Jamisson, Fausset and Brown commentary)

God hears his prayers (Ishma-El means God hears him) :

Genesis 21:17 And God heard the voice of the lad. And the angel of God called to Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth you , Hagar? Fear not. For God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. Gen 21:18 Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in your hand. For I will make him a great nation.

God will establish a covenant with the children of Abraham (as):

Genesis 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and you and your seed after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto you and to your seed after you.

Genesis 21:13 And also of the son of the handmaid (Ishmael) will I make a nation, because he is your seed.

A prophet will be sent from the arabs to the all the gentiles:

Isaiah 42:1 Behold, my servant, whom I uphold; my chosen, in whom my soul delighteth: I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.

Isaiah 42:11 Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, the villages that Kedar doth inhabit; let the inhabitants of Sela sing, let them shout from the top of the mountains.

Kedar is the second son of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13), Sela is a mountain in Medina, and it was mentioned in some hadiths.

The prophet comes with a new law:

Isaiah 42:4 He will not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth; and the isles shall wait for his law.

The prophet will defeat pagans:

Isaiah 42:13 Jehovah will go forth as a mighty man; he will stir up his zeal like a man of war: he will cry, yea, he will shout aloud; he will do mightily against his enemies.

Isaiah 42:17 They shall be turned back, they shall be utterly put to shame, that trust in graven images, that say unto molten images, Ye are our gods.

He will be just and merciful with the believers:

Isaiah 42:2 He will not cry, nor lift up his voice, nor cause it to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed will he not break, and a dimly burning wick will he not quench: he will bring forth justice in truth.

>>29964

I though the cube turned from white to black as a result of mans sins.

>>30895

Nope. The kaaba isn't black. The cloth covering it is black.

>>29970

The very earliest mosques all pointed to Petra. Research the qibla wall direction of early mosques, they do not point to mecca. After civil war within Islam, all point towards Mecca. Many of the oldest buildings are left derelict in order to obscure the original direction of worship.

>>30897

>still going on about this debunked myth

I see another filthy trini stray dog has gotten lost from his home board.

>>30898

>>30897

God is transcendent. Pointing towards a direction to pray makes sense how? Who are you worshipping by looking one way versus another?

>>30897

Mecca was the qibla from Adam to Abraham pbut. The earlier qibla was towards quds (Jerusalem) since mecca was full of arab pagan idols it could not be prayed towards. After the conquest of mecca and cleansing, it returned to be the qibla.

>>30910

We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.

(2:144)

Righteousness is not that you turn your faces toward the east or the west, but [true] righteousness is [in] one who believes in Allah , the Last Day, the angels, the Book, and the prophets and gives wealth, in spite of love for it, to relatives, orphans, the needy, the traveler, those who ask [for help], and for freeing slaves; [and who] establishes prayer and gives zakah; [those who] fulfill their promise when they promise; and [those who] are patient in poverty and hardship and during battle. Those are the ones who have been true, and it is those who are the righteous.

(2:177)

Also, Jews used to pray towards Jerusalem.

>>29961

The Saturn Cube theory is probabally the stupidest thing Pol has ever come up with and is an obvious last ditch attempt by Satan to discredit Islam. People are starting to see through Christianity

>>31027

I don't even see how زحل having a hexagon on it's pole is a bad thing, in fact only Allah (swt) can do that, so it's a beautiful part of nature that we can admire. It's the christian mentality that believes satan is the god of this world, they overestimate the power of satan.

p.s planet names are pagans so I used the arabic name

>>33751

Where are you getting those translations from? All I've found through googling is a pair of tards from /r/exmuslim.

>>33751

>a couple of guys with Muslim names says it, so it must be true!

lol no

>>33751

Another blatant deception by degenerate cross worshipers. The first quotation literally says the exact opposite, the author begins the sentence with:

> وبهذا يعرف كذب من قال

meaning: and this is how the falsehood/lies are evident by those who say: (and here's the sentence the cross worshiper copied). This is after the author explained the actual history of the ka'bah.

As for the second "reference" then first of all it's the second volume not third, so you couldn't even get that right, and secondly, it's the exact same story as above: the historian mentions the myth only to reject it.

>>33753

It's just degenerate mushrik missionaries at it again. No different then when they claimed an Arabic speaking christian apologist had "pointed out" that Allah was the moon god…except the christian author said the exact opposite, so they can't even accurately portray what their fellow cross worshippers write. But it doesn't matter, christians will eat this up anyway and spread it all over the internet in the name of jesus.