/islam/ - 8kun Masjid

Alchemy is just an old word for chemistry, which is fine with Islam. Science and the study of the world is important.

As for "magic", no. Only jinn use magic. Humans can't harness supernatural powers.

>>19183

Alchemy can also refer to a process of inner transformation in which different substances (e.g. mercury, salt, etc) are symbols for qualities and components of the human being. This type of alchemy is just as old if not older. What is your opinion on it within an Islamic context?

>>19184

That particular version of alchemy is what we call "medicine" today. Muslims have pretty much always had physicians. There's nothing supernatural about it.

>>19185

that's not what I'm referring to. The alchemy that I refer to deals with less tangible things than what medicine deals with, hence the need for an allegorical language. It effects a transformation of your inner being. You could call it "psychological" and not be that far off the mark.

>>19186

Psychology has long been practiced by Muslims. The first psychiatric hospital was built in 705 in Baghdad by Muslim physicians. There's nothing mystical about it.

magic is a type of polytheism or shirk in islam because you associate power with something other than Allah

Satanic Black Magick? Absloutely Haraam

>>19277

>Most of the people here are Salafi-leaning

That's actually not true. In polls we've done in the past, there is no clear majority. One or two Salafi, a scattering of Hanafi, a couple of Twelvers, and an Ibadi.

>>19277

names of Allah work because it's like saying a prayer, but amulets don't

>>19279

Read the Kitab al-Jami' of Ibn Abi Zayd. The Sahaba used amulets.

>>19182

Within Sunni Islam, Sufism is strongly inclined to occultism. Within Shi'ism, Isma'ilism is.

>>19342

It's always fascinating to me that in the west, Sufism is often the first thing that brings seekers to Islam. It's not inherently of the occult, but it seems that way to outsiders due to its esoteric nature and emphasis on meditation.

My argument against jumping into Sufism is that people use it as a means of solitary Islam. They read a little about it and see it as a way to be Muslim without having to go to mosque or spend any time with other Muslims. It appeals to the internet in that way, but it is completely false. Muslims have an obligation to go to the mosque and to pray along side the brothers. Of course, Sufism does not promote solitude, but it is made to appear that way - especially on sites that promote syncretic religions.

>>19352

I don't really know what you're talking about tbh. Sufism is the least solitary thing I can think of. You can't be a Sufi unless you have a teacher. It's impossible to practice alone.

>>19354

I know that, but it is presented as the "Islamic Kabbalah" on syncretic religion sites and forums.

>>19341

Why would they use amulets when they have rasul (عليه السلام)

>>19361

Ask them on Judgement Day why they made amulets and ask Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wa sallim) why he allowed it, since you seem to think that you are wiser than them.

BTW, these amulets were based around Qur'anic ayat. You are disrespecting the Qur'an by asserting that Allah cannot heal by means of it.

If you can read French, here is a good article on the subject from a Maliki fiqh website: http://ahlulmadinah.fr/la-sorcellerie-et-la-geomancie

>>19366

The paper mushaf has no healing power in of itself. It is the recitation of Allah's words.

wa lā ḥawla wa lā quwwata illā billāh

>>19368

Nothing has power in and of itself but Allah Himself. When you take medicine, do you do so because you believe that the medicine has inherent &ealing power, or simply as a means to be healed bi idhnillah ta'ala?

>>19403

>do you believe that the medicine has inherent healing power

yes

>>19403

Allah put illness in the world and Allah put cure in the world. So, yes, medicine has healing power because Allah deemed it so.

>>19403

yes Allah created it to heal us with various chemical processes

a piece of paper however, cannot

>>19419

1. Nothing but Allah Himself has healing power, whether we are speaking of medicine or ta'weez. Healing occurs by Allah's will and anything that facilitates that is merely a sabab (means).

2. Why would chemical compounds be a means of healing, but not Allah's word? Does it cease to be Allah's word because it was written on paper? We know that the sahabah used written ta'weez for healing purposes (see Kitab al-Jami' by Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani). Why do you think you know better than them?

>>19422

The quran means recitation, and what proof do you have that they used amulets?

>>19427

So you are saying that the written Qur'an is not the Qur'an? That's heresy.

Also, my proof is the narrations in the section on ta'weez in al-Kitab al-Jami' by Ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani (most of which come down from Imam Malik),

>>19432

>So you are saying that the written Qur'an is not the Qur'an? That's heresy.

written quran is mushaf, and no its not heresy

>>19435

From a Sunni perspective, it's pure heresy. People used to get run out of cities by Hanbalis for not affirming what is contained in the mushaf as Allah's word.

>>19439

Good thing they aren't here anymore.

>>19277

OP here, thank you for this informative post. These are the kinds of distinctions I was wondering about. Does the pdf address things like meditation and breathing excercises and so on? Do such practices play a role in Islam?

>>19342

What specifically do you mean by "occultism" in this post? Do you mean amulets again?

>>19440

>Good thing they aren't here anymore.

Do you deny the legitimacy of the Hanabilah?

>>19442

>OP here, thank you for this informative post. These are the kinds of distinctions I was wondering about. Does the pdf address things like meditation and breathing excercises and so on? Do such practices play a role in Islam?

The pdf doesn't really address this, as it is focused on the cosmology of Shaykh Ahmad al-Buni (rahimahullah), whose works are more focused on lettristic mysticism (ie. explaining the mystical relationship between the letters of the Arabic alphabet and names of Allah with the constellations, mansions of the moon, etc.).

Breathing exercises and meditation play a huge role in Sufism. *Sufi Meditation and Contemplation* by Scott Kugle contains several translations of treatises on this subject.

You'll find that the Naqshbandis and Chishti have the most well-developed body of literature on breathing exercises. The Naqshbandis in particular are keen on muraqabah, which is a form of silent, seated meditation that involves breath control. Naqshbandis also practice "guarding the breath" in which they attempt to maintain a meditative state even in normal activities by maintaining a tranquil and prayerful state of mind with every breath.

>What specifically do you mean by "occultism" in this post? Do you mean amulets again?

Amulets are a small facet of the occult sciences in Islam. The true goal of all these things is the direct experiential knowledge of Allah (ma'arifah), the subduing of the lower self (nafs), the elevation of the higher self (ruh), and annihilating one's self in the presence of Allah (fana').

Everything else is simply a means to this.

>>19449

I'm not hanbali and I deny your superstitions.

>>19451

Um. It's not superstition, it's pretty clearly part of Islam. What proofs do you have that it's haram? because there's quite a lot of proofs that were already given to you that it isn't.

>>19278

I don't think "most of the people here" are Salafis either. But one can be aligned with Salafi-Wahhabism and still claim to follow one of the four madhabs.

If I could guess, most of the people here are basically Islamist Movement influenced Sunnis that wholly reject everything to do with "Sufism" but still see themselves as Traditional Sunni Muslims.

>>19474

Show me quranic proof.

>>19474

I think your guess would be wrong. We have, tops, 20 active people on this board. The idea that there's a Wahhabi Kabal controlling the narrative here is just silly.

>>19476

>kabal

? what does that mean.

>>19477

A kabal (or cabal) is a secret political clique or faction.

>>19475

Oh, do you reject the validity of the four madhabs, and even the Hadith?

>>19476

>Wahhabi Cabal

I…didn't say that, but okay.

No, what I said was that most people here are Sunnis that reject Tassawuf. And the reason that there are Sunnis that reject Tassawuf is because of certain Islamist Movements.

>>19479

no

>>19480

And which Islamic movements would those be?

Is there such a thing as "esoteric Islam"?

>>19551

some like tho think so to feel special, but in reality, no there isnt

>>19551

Of course! If it didn't, there wouldn't be so much material about it. The video in OP wouldn't even exist.

>>19552

Earlier in the thread you spoke heresy about the uncreated nature of the Qur'an and deprecated the Hanbali madhhab.

Also, Islam is ad-Din al-Haqq, so of course it has an esoteric element as well as an exoteric one. Islam is an ocean with no shore and no floor.

>>19564

>Earlier in the thread you spoke heresy about the uncreated nature of the Qur'an and deprecated the Hanbali madhhab.

wtf?

>>19565

If that wasn't you, I'm sorry. Your Canada-pushover flag fooled me.

It's still [social epithet]ed to deny that Islam has an esoteric element. You're basically saying "Islam is only external and outward and has no depth to it at all." That's heretical insanity. There are so many ayat and hadith that make the esoteric element of Islam known.

>>19569

Why not share those ayat and hadith instead of casting out insults.

>>19570

Here's one mutawatir Hadith Qudsi,

Allah Most High says: "He who is hostile to a friend of Mine I declare war against. My slave approaches Me with nothing more beloved to Me than what I have made obligatory upon him, and My slave keeps drawing nearer to Me with voluntary works until I love him. And when I love him, I am his hearing with which he hears, his sight with which he sees, his hand with which he seizes, and his foot with which he walks. If he asks me, I will surely give to him, and if he seeks refuge in Me, I will surely protect him"

>>19569

define esoteric element

>>19572

so if I disagree with you I am hostile? stop being an extremist, give logical arguments and dont use emotion to prove your point, it wont work

>>19572

That's an example of esoteric Islam?

>>19552

>>19564

Well, thank you to everyone for attempting to answer my questions. How come your board doesn't have a "Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread" thread? I have a bunch of general questions about Islam that don't necessarily fit this thread. Can I go ahead and make such a thread?

>>19581

Such a thread would be fine, but keep in mind that we're a small board.

In Western and parts of Northern Africa marabouts are pretty much witchdoctors cosplaying as scholars. They summon spirits to heal, manufacture magical trinkets and all that nonsense. I bet they also lay curses. Subsaharans can't enjoy life without knowing their neighbor got cursed.

Occult is a word with a lot of negative connotations. I presume, however, that there is an esoteric side to Islam?

>>20380

Not really.

We have sent down the Book to you which manifests the truth about all things and as guidance and mercy and good news for Muslims. [16:9]

Allah intends for you ease and does not intend for you hardship. [2:185]

Islam is a very simple religion. There is no need to complicate it.

Intredasting.

isn't sufism just a form of spiritual alchemy

>>26913

Wow … old thread. But, to answer your question, no. It isn't.

>>26913

Paulo Coelho pls go.

Sometimes a good muslim can get blinded by rage and send jinn against someone that wronged them. But that’s inadvisable and you should repent if you do that.

Then there are the evil magicians who hide Qurans in sewers, sleep in trash, go to the masjid with no wudu on purpose, whip themselves. All that is done to prove to the shayateen that they are like them and to seek their friendship.

>>26913

>spiritual

yes

>alchemy

no

>>19181

hard question bruv. To get the context. Islam isnt a religion in a sense that its now or never. People think of religions in the sense of winning a ticket to heavens. while with the true religion has changed, x years ago y was the true religion, etc etc you understand the thought. The truth has never changed and will never change, only the people change, one dies one gets born.

So the thing with islam is, the most beloved (love is very important, most muslims dont even realize) prophet got a religion that he had to represent the truth.

The thing with this prophet (as opposed to other prophets) was that he was so loved by god that his people would get new accesses. We dont really understand this, but its an occult subject. Many ancient occult things are based first on physical layers, the older you go the more you find about physical forms and trades bla bla. The closer you come, you will find more about mental energies and how the world is one big mental universe. Then you come really close(islam), you get a disconnection to the world (dont reply if you have no idea what this means) and living spiritual love. Islam has a big spiritual love inside it. However since we have to deal with politics in life, information about these subjects are hard to find, and mostly come through or flow through a person, a spiritually certified instructor(just to understand). The thing with islam is, this religion has never changed and will never change, because the living plane of this religion isnt on the physical world, nor the mental world. People that dont understand islam will try to do their acts straight and dress enough. While they dont realize that islam isnt lived from the outside(physical) to the inside(emotional) but from the inside(spiritual) to the outside (emotional). the physical realm is nothing. but finding more info, idk man, its hard

>>26916

My aunt got me his book ages ago. Still haven't gotten around to reading it yet.