/doomer/ - Doomers Club★

this post reminded me why i think pedophiles are the most filthiest and depraved beings in this planet and how they should die in fire. scratching from a human being the only thing that makes them pure (that lack of consciousness that you mean) is something that even the most nihilistic person in the world would find disgusting. same goes to those who hurt animals.

>>19304

>>19306

I don't know why people usually think that children that young have vastly different perception of the world. With being immature and relying more on emotions, destroying kid's mind and soul is way too easy, so easy that you can unintentionally end up in situation like this.

>>19295 (OP)

>tl;dr living past your age of 4 is pointless no matter for what spooks you will live, no matter if you want children because they will face the same issue, you life after this period is just attempt to justify your existence eyes to eyes with death; and as always I have no clue what the fuck am I talking about

This is why Peter Wessel Zapffe and a few others saw the evolution of human consciousness as a colossal mistake. And also why we value moments where our consciousness recedes into the background-- sex, drunkenness, revelry, religious rituals, physical confrontation, sublime aesthetic beauty, etc, etc. Children and animals are enviable for the exact same reason as well.

As for the social dimension, we are only 'de-spooked' in the moment of clarity following a sense of great victory or a great defeat. And it doesn't last very long We subconsciously re-spook ourselves, with new ideals, even as we reject the old. Being 'de-spooked' for any extended period is extremely jarring. Having a visceral sense of the cosmic indifference to all human effort can literally lead people to kill themselves.

>>19348

>and animals are enviable for the exact same reason as well

Yes it makes sense. It's pretty common as well, I often heard people say stuff like "if I was [insert animal here]". I wasn't thinking about animals but yes, the point is same.

>And it doesn't last very long We subconsciously re-spook ourselves, with new ideals, even as we reject the old.

Not always. Even if, as you said it - danger of visceral sense of the cosmic indifference to all human effort - might be present, you are aware of it, you might become very anxious about taking the next step. Briefly it means just that instead of re-spooking yourself, you might end up in a state where you question everything and that's the reason why some spooks might be useful, like f.e. faith in God, even though you might question it, you still keep your belief or whatever. You are right, without any ideological/psychological support we can have, the path leads straight to suicide.

>>19357

>you might end up in a state where you question everything and that's the reason why some spooks might be useful, like f.e. faith in God, even though you might question it, you still keep your belief or whatever

The point was that adopting a "question everything" attitude is no substitute for never having been 'de-spooked' in the first place. (and by extension, never having been spooked to begin with, but human consciousness makes this impossible). You have already adopted a cope of sorts to deal with an indifferent universe- you have created an ideal whereby skepticism is valued over naivety.

>>19348

This is de-spook: the board.

>>19393

More like 'Desperately Re-spook Yourself with a Meme', the board.

>>19399

And what meme would that be?

>>19405

The meme of false hope that anything you do matters even though world is in total shitter and our existence is based on a cold fascistic laws reflected in every action in nature, the spook of thinking that if you do whatever you think is positive/necessary, it will have any impact on the cycle of human societal existence on this planet. Many posters here think that doing some action for collapse or improvement actually matters; and I'm no different but it's spook, spook that makes us not ending it all right here right now, isn't it?

>>19360

This is so deep thought that it's really hard for me to come up with some reasonable answer. You are most likely correct but I'm pretty much okay with it. You can admit to yourself that some aspects of human nature can't be changed and play a dummy, embrace the human condition and spook yourself, or adopt a cope mechanisms because it's the only way how you can get up from deathbed in the next morning.

>>19348

Here's one possible counter-argument against consciousness as ghastly mistake:

>But if you learn that self-consciousness has limits, that self-awareness cannot possibly enable you to be free of making mistakes, you can learn to be spontaneous in spite of being self-aware, and enjoy the echo. So what happens---that, having developed self-consciousness through education, through work with other people, having developed all the disciplines of the culture, the vanaprastha then becomes again as a child. But then, you see, he has what Freud says the child has from the beginning; Freud called it the oceanic feeling. And the oceanic feeling is the sensation of being one with the universe. The vanaprastha gets that back, but it’s not a child’s oceanic feeling, it’s an adult’s oceanic feeling—something which the psychoanalysts don’t discuss, because, according to them, all oceanic feelings are aggressive. But there is a mature oceanic feeling, as contrasted with the immature oceanic feeling of the child, which is as different as the oak is from the acorn. And so you can have this sensation, you see, of total unity with the cosmos, of the—shall I call it expansion to infinity, or contraction to infinity?—of your identity without forgetting society’s game rules with regard to you. In other words, it doesn’t mean that you forget your address, telephone number, social security number, and the name you were given. You remember all that, and you can play that game when necessary, but you know it’s a game.

Go here and CTRL+F "mature oceanic" for the whole ~80m lecture

https://www.organism.earth/library/document/25

>>19430

<…ctrl+f for context*

>>19408

>This is so deep thought that it's really hard for me to come up with some reasonable answer.

Not really. It was just a way of saying that innocence once lost can be never regained. Only in this case the loss of innocence isn't the onset of sexuality or the beginnings of adult ambitions, it's self-awareness itself.

>>19430

Interesting, will read for sure. I have been thinking of getting into Watts, so maybe this can be a start.

>>19448

>bullying

The point is that really young kids don't see it as "evil", any more than a cat sees hunting mice as evil. Children who are lonely, sad, etc do not judge themselves for being so. Innocence here simply means the lack of concern for one's identity, purpose or moral standing within the universe. Those are all adult concepts that haunt us, but not them.

> If you want to make it you really have to hold on that childish perspective as long as you can

old cliche, but a true cliche.

>>19448

>One thing that I fascinating is how youth led movements always just die out as people get older. There really seems to be something lost as you calcify or something.

I always thought is only question of comfort. Some people won't change and stay in that youth movement/rebellion mindset until they die but majority of people just sooner or later join the circus of being productive and "reasonable"/mature member of society, because it's easier if you stay in line with your mouth shut. Then men reach middle age crisis and realize how much it sucks and try to rediscover their inner child or whatever the fuck that suppose to mean.

>>19408

>The meme of false hope that anything you do matters even though world is in total shitter and our existence is based on a cold fascistic laws reflected in every action in nature, the spook of thinking that if you do whatever you think is positive/necessary, it will have any impact on the cycle of human societal existence on this planet. Many posters here think that doing some action for collapse or improvement actually matters; and I'm no different but it's spook, spook that makes us not ending it all right here right now, isn't it?

Why the even though? When did this notion arise that the world needs to be nice and that the cosmos must be caring, for there to be motivation? It's like a sort of fedora fundamentalism, a rage at an absentee landlord, whose absence is as sublime as its presence is for those who belief in him.

>>19459

>Children who are lonely, sad, etc do not judge themselves for being so. Innocence here simply means the lack of concern for one's identity, purpose or moral standing within the universe. Those are all adult concepts that haunt us, but not them.

I believe that is why the current hype around mental illness and the mantra that it must be "talked" about is in fact fueling it, as language is intrinsically alienating.

>>19502

>I believe that is why the current hype around mental illness and the mantra that it must be "talked" about is in fact fueling it

And, this is also why the ancients believed that words were magic- You conjure a demon by naming it. How many demons have we conjured up on the chans already? and how many demons will next editions of DSM conjure?

>>19502

>When did this notion arise that the world needs to be nice and that the cosmos must be caring, for there to be motivation?

To be quite honest, it's pumped to your brain from every side. Movies show you this, music does it, your fucking parents do that (just be yourself, you are clever, you have potential, you can do whatever you want and be happy lmao), etc. Or I like (sarcasm) that stupid shit about how people are not that dumb, that you only met few bad people but world is great. We all know this shit. Then you grow up and you see it was all lies. Yes, I'm dumb for ever believing this but I'm naive person.

>>19544

I think this all is besides the point. We want the cosmos to have some sort of mean of meaning or purpose, because of our innate anthropomorphizing tendencies. Most culture, morality and philosophy is just an extension of this very human urge.

>>19628

of some sort of meaning or pupose*

>>19628

>We want the cosmos to have some sort of mean of meaning or purpose, because of our innate anthropomorphizing tendencies.

I thought about this recently as well, that if you want to push this to very end, getting rid of every human being would be interesting. You would get rid of observers, maybe the only one in universe, it's questionable but whatever; but what is really important that you would get rid of this conflict we create and nature would exist "as intended" - live for the life itself. Sometimes I feel as if these thoughts, about finding meaning or purpose aren't exactly the problem, causing imbalance in matter and state of being.