/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>844923

1 Corinthians 6

When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 2 Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! 4 So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church?

>>844923

One more verse 1 Samuel 8

4 So all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your ways; now appoint a king to lead[b] us, such as all the other nations have.”

6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.”

10 Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will claim as his rights: He will take your sons and make them serve with his chariots and horses, and they will run in front of his chariots. 12 Some he will assign to be commanders of thousands and commanders of fifties, and others to plow his ground and reap his harvest, and still others to make weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 He will take the best of your fields and vineyards and olive groves and give them to his attendants. 15 He will take a tenth of your grain and of your vintage and give it to his officials and attendants. 16 Your male and female servants and the best of your cattle[c] and donkeys he will take for his own use. 17 He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his slaves. 18 When that day comes, you will cry out for relief from the king you have chosen, but the Lord will not answer you in that day.”

19 But the people refused to listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want a king over us. 20 Then we will be like all the other nations, with a king to lead us and to go out before us and fight our battles.”

21 When Samuel heard all that the people said, he repeated it before the Lord. 22 The Lord answered, “Listen to them and give them a king.”

>>844923

In lieu of Christ's own earthly kingship that will come, I would say Christianity Democracy is best. Unfortunately, America doesn't have such a thing. I guess it's more of a European style of politics. Almost every true libertarian I can think of is a Satanic LARPer. As in literal Anton Lavey followers. Either that or a free marketer who might as well serve Satan. They certainly do not serve their fellow man.

The fall of man starts with freedom. Adam and Eve wanted to be their own gods. They were not content with God's order or rule.

>>844961

>They were not content with God's order or rule.

God's rule is freedom, you duckhopper. If you're ruled by any man at all you're being ruled by an imperfect being. If you're completely left to your own whims your only master is God. That's why the Catholic hierarchy is about imparting graces to those lower in the hierarchy not meticulously controlling them like a communist or gov official.

>>844964

I admire Ron (and Rand) Paul for their anti-war stances, but I don't think they're as libertarian as they espouse. They're just anti-Federal. It's more of a Constiutional stance rather than strict Libertarian. They would happily enact regulations and laws, but just strangely want to leave it at the State level. One example is that they are both pro-Life. I admire that, but they strangely leave it at a State level. This is un-Christian to me. If you have the levers of even more power, a Christian is obligated to protect more lives. This is not tyranny. More people are insured a chance at a good life under this. Not less. The only people who actually suffer under this are the actual tyrants (people who value their own petty conveniences over the lives of the unborn).

>>844961

yeah we had some issues recently with the libertarian party becoming full of degenerates and falling apart. One of the issues was that the party was for legalizing drugs and this attracted questionable and crazy types.

This became the image of libertarians the world over - and destroyed the whole movement. And rightfully so it was a degenerate movement.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/05/30/libertarian-convention-strip-tease-daily-hit-newday.cnn

That said there are ideas like Milton Friedman as it was applied in Chilie - ie. not getting rid of drug or morality laws but reducing government institutions and relguations - ie - emphasis on private schools instead of public secular values indoctrination centers, reliance on private business and charity where possible, rather than government institutions. The notion of a limited government.

And most of all, not seeing the government as an authority or guide, like the left tries to present, but humans, equals, and from the point of view of scripture, inferior unsaved men and women who don't know God and are lost in their depravity.

I think the problem with libertarians is the party tried to grow quickly with easy sell ideas like drugs rather than hard sell ideas like privatization and personal responsibility. And they broke apart.

Perhaps what the movement needs is a new identity and new name to seperate ourselves from the Laveyians and Satanists

>>844966

No offense intended but if you don't think Ron Paul is a real libertarian you don't know what you're talking about

>>844968

I'm a Texan myself. I know all about him. He's what I said he was. He holds to a more anti-Federal stance than Libertarianism in every aspect. He's voted for Pro-Life restrictions and suggested other strategies. He just holds on to a dogma of denouncing only Federal power. It's stupid.

>>844970

>How dare Ron not let bad people control good people. Das is stoopid mayne.

>>844971

There's nothing "good" about whom he is protecting. These people are evil and sick in the most definitive sense of those words. And more to the point, you are at war with them. Ron Paul, you, me.. All of us. For you to hold on to ideological boundaries revolving around Federal jurisdiction or libertarianism, all while you're getting your heads pounded into the sand….. Well, that's pretty stupid, like I said. You're fighting by rules that no longer exist on the battlefield. Like Napoleonic soldiers dealing with guerilla warfare. It's going to get you killed.

When it comes to our old laws of liberty and American's founding, John Adams said it best:

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

>>844984

>Like Napoleonic soldiers dealing with guerilla warfare. It's going to get you killed.

Libertarianism is unironically the ideological equivalent of guerilla warfare, you duckhopper.

>>844988

>>844985

I think you are being less than charitable to what should be a respectful discussion between believers

>>844970

>>844984

Ron Paul was about federal jurisdiction. I think that's a more American idea than a libertarian idea - although limiting federal government power is.

I guess my explaination would be the world is evil - and dominated by evil. In a believing society abortion would be condemned and banned as murder whether the society was libertarian or not. However, as we live among unbelievers, the best we can do is have the right to ban it in Christian nations and Christian states.

Yes the movement is losing, but the ideas still have power and many of the ideas are represented among republicans and conservative governments in opposing tax and spend policies and laws affecting free speech and expression. I think it would also be powerful as a Christian movement demanding the right to govern our communities according to our own rules

>>844988

>>844985

Call me what you want, but you're wasting your time. I don't care to be your enemy. I'm trying to get you to recognize who really is.

And no, you're not guerilla fighters. You're playing by antiquated rules where you assume your opponents are still civilized gentleman and make honorable and merely incremental moves. That even conflict with them is above board and civilized. They are far from it. They are ghouls and worse than animals. They are sodomites, thieves, and baby killers. They are the opposite of civilization. Their freedom leads to nothing good for you. Each step they make and each liberty they are granted leads to further demoralization of society. Even within 5 years, gay marriage has led to kids being indoctrinated with transexual identity propaganda. The lunacy just from that alone cascaded to absurd levels within a few years. They are using all of your Constitutional ideals against you. They are the real guerilla fighters. While you're standing around unable to even keep up on where the shots are even being fired from. They've got their hands in everything. They can even turn families on each other. While you're wasting your time worried about their dignity.

>>844997

>. They are using all of your Constitutional ideals against you. They are the real guerilla fighters. While you're standing around unable to even keep up on where the shots are even being fired from. They've got their hands in everything.

That sounds rather blackpilled. No matter how powerful they are, we have a greater advocate

>>845001

Perhaps it is pretty bleak if I only limited this to my own life or to current laws. There's only so much you can do under these conditions, especially non-violently.

But I'm not blackpilled necessarily. I still have hope for future Christians. Just not myself. There are scenarios with a silver-lining to them, but almost all of them require a collapse of this current order.

Matthew 5:17-20 King James Version (KJV)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven .

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven .

>>844965

>If you're completely left to your own whims your only master is God.

And my whim is to establish a totalitarian theocratic government.

Romans 13

>>845158

Expound