Question from someone who isn't protestant, catholic, orthodox or copt but christian

Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
File	Select/drop/paste files here
Password	(Randomized for file and post deletion; you may also set your own.)
Archive	Archive [500 char limit]
* = required field	[▶ Show post options & limits] Confused? See the FAQ.

Flag	open flag menu
Embed	(replaces files and can be used instead)
Voice recorder	Show voice recorder (the Stop button will be clickable 5 seconds after you press Record)
Options	Do not bump (you can also write sage in the email field)
Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf Max filesize is 16 MB. Max image dimensions are 15000 x 15000. You may upload 5 per post.

Question from someone who isn't protestant, catholic, orthodox or copt but christian 04/22/20 (Wed) 04:56:10 596442 No.831558

How do orthodox and copts feel about statue veneration?

____________________________

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

04/22/20 (Wed) 08:51:48 6430cf No.831564

File: 3d5f09e083a3ef5⋯.jpg (243.02 KB, 798x1200, 133:200, moses_brass_serpent_39479_….jpg)

5 verses after the commandment to not have images you have God instructing the forging of two huge golden angels for the ark and angel embroidery for the tabernacle mantels.

Then a book later God instructs Moses to have a brass snake on a pole.

If pastor X was witnessing this he'd immediately defect and form true God worship religion thinking the hebrews were clearly being duped by the devil. I mean, a snake of all things!

We can see from these examples that its not the image in itself but images used for worshiping other gods/idols, that are forbidden. Things that are used to glorify God are ok.

So there is nothing more innocuous than a statue or paiting of a saint, giving honor to a person who followed God's will better than most is glorifying God, not competing or circumventing God as usually its suggested.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

04/22/20 (Wed) 18:27:50 492252 No.831587

File: e15aee5dc31f0a2⋯.jpg (310.03 KB, 1249x1600, 1249:1600, 01_jesus_christ_pantocrato….jpg)

File: c60b77c7042a6db⋯.jpg (202.25 KB, 900x711, 100:79, icon_of_christ_the_true_vi….jpg)

We don't accept it because the purpose of icons is remembrance of the resurrection and eternal life. They are also for teaching purposes. I've added two icons that represent their two main purposes.

They aren't art, they are devotional items that need to be treated seriously as they influence the manner we decide to pray, fast, and live.

We reject statues because we believe in the spiritualization and salvation of the flesh unto a new spiritual body, such as Christ demonstrated after his resurrection. It is not a rejection of physicality but a sign towards its mystical transfiguration and salvation.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

04/22/20 (Wed) 18:30:57 492252 No.831589

>>831564

I don't think we should use outliers to justify the main command. It would be like justifying murder through God's command of war in the OT.

Man should not make an image of God, though it was God who made an image of himself through the incarnation and therefore we have seen, through Christ, the Father. The incarnation alone is the basis of representation.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

04/23/20 (Thu) 11:18:42 6430cf No.831690

File: eae9f773d8013e9⋯.jpg (933.81 KB, 2628x3000, 219:250, pieta.jpg)

>>831589

Cherub statues and embroidery. If the Statue is an outlier than also the embroidery is and you couldnt have 2d icons.

>>831587

Why would the pieta not have devotional and teaching purposes. All of these things are art by default, but their purpose is to glorify God and teaching/devotion. Specially useful taking into account that most people couldnt read.

A drawing of Jesus is an image of God i still dont understand what differs in 3d. I could sculpt that vine icon, i bet some churches have similar stuff in rock.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

04/23/20 (Thu) 19:54:19 492252 No.831715

>>831690

You have not read what I wrote at all.

I explained that only the incarnation justifies images and also explained why orthodox have this specific relation to physicality.

Read it again.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

04/23/20 (Thu) 22:31:46 8e3cd5 No.831724

>>831564

I feel it needs to be mentioned that the snake was there because God was testing the faith of the people. He wanted them to believe what he said. They made it, believed it, and that was proof. It was also a foreshadow of Jesus. It was like when Moses parted the Red Sea. He didn't want him to hit the rock, he simply wanted him to believe.

Further, using this as a reason to support images and statues to ask for prayer sort of neglects 2 Kings 18:4 which shows it was destroyed because it became an item of worship. If then one of your best examples for veneration became the subject of idolatry, the question arises: is it really something worth going along with? Does talking to iconography respond? No? Well, why not just talk to God instead?

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.

04/24/20 (Fri) 04:42:00 018cb3 No.831748

>>831724

The whole point of the Brazen Serpent is that God can use physical objects as means to affect benefit(i.e healing). That is is destroyed because people thought it to be some serpent god doesn't negate this use. It only shows people being stupid enough to follow in the ways of their neighbours.

Secondly as that anon said, there is the Ark which is clearly revered. There is more than this because the entire temple space is filled with images and the temple itself is conceived in Second Temple Judaism in Iconic terms(i.e it is a Type of Eden, it is a Type of the Cosmos, it is a Type of Paradise) which shows the use of visual piety in theology and its practice. This is also why when Philo narrates the life of Moses, he uses the same Greek rhetorical technique meant to bring the object before the eyes of the listeners and readers, especially in describing the plagues and the burning bush. He even emphasises Moses' aesthetic appearance too.

That same Greek rhetorical technique is also used in the Gospels and OT. Particularly in John where Jesus being visually depicted in mockery at His trial, using visual symbolism of the Roman empire to illustrate how the reader should see and react to Jesus, giving a sense of irony to what the Roman soldiers are doing to him.

Disclaimer: this post and the subject matter and contents thereof - text, media, or otherwise - do not necessarily reflect the views of the 8kun administration.