627292 No.818066
So what's the consensus here on these things? Abnormalities, normal variation, or are any of these even human?
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1085d5 No.818098
>>818066
If by human you mean our specific species, then no. They are precursors to us, but the closer they are the more likely they had a moral and spiritual life like us. I'd love to engage one of them in theology.
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c7cef8 No.818103
>>818098
I just know many prefer to work in absolutes with this. Always man or always animal, with some major misdirection for either position.
>I'd love to engage one of them in theology.
I mean we have some anatomical evidence of speech in beings as divergent as this.
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f23239 No.818105
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c7cef8 No.818109
>>818105
This feels needlessly complicated tbqh. I personally don't think the exact details of man's spiritual origins can be answered, but I do think we can at least speculate on what specimens we've found thus far could be considered kin to us.
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1085d5 No.818112
>>818103
Man is animal, species and evolution as I know it calls for somewhat a lack of absolute distinction. In the evolving of our species, what do you call the person who was just the slightest step from being human as we know it? What is the limit, where are you going to draw theline? Stuff like that. We still have the DNA of other species in some of us, so there is no absolute.
The spiritual origins of the human are shrouded in ancient history that is only known through concepts like "evolution" "infusion" "imago dei" " fall" and so on. Out of these we came, it's honestly not half as important as the end of all creatures as worshipping God eternally
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e7e1d2 No.818116
>>818112
To me the biggest marker was advanced tool use, but even that has a gradual development from more rudimentary forms seen in extant apes. As of now, I don't know when such things would've begun, or if they even have a definitive "beginning." I've even considered that perhaps forms like the australopithecines may have some semblance of humanity in them.
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1085d5 No.818119
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>818116
This documentary shows the spiritual process behind evolution (from a Christian perspective). If the principles are true, then there probably wasn't a definitive beginning beyond life being born
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d17ca3 No.818140
>Believing in subversive “scientific” Gnosticism
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6b2aab No.818156
>>818118
>according to their order.
Baraminology is a meme.
It can't do proper, scientific taxonomy, just vague anecdotes.
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af0c20 No.818175
>>818119
Feel like this could use a slight update, the human evolution portion is so off even by the time it was made. Linearity was always a bad idea with this stuff.
>>818140
If you've got a better idea, I'm dying to hear it
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7fd2df No.818191
>>818175
>If you've got a better idea, I'm dying to hear it
God did not lie in His inspired word, and humanists are desperate for an explanation of how we got here without God, angry boneposter.
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1085d5 No.818192
>>818191
The Church allows for evolution, therefore we can safely discard such fundy views of the word. These are literally the most basic objections that have been beat to death a million and one times.
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45fabf No.818198
>>818192
>fundy
Fedoralord detected, opinion discarded.
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7966b9 No.818226
>>818191
So you have nothing, and can only resort to insulting me and questioning my character? Good to know
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6a38bb No.818272
>>818226
I made no insult. I stated a fact. You are a snarky individual.
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9633d9 No.818288
>>818272
Not really, I just don't appreciate the insinuation that I'm some atheist with a chip on my shoulder about something or other involving God. I was taught to praise Him from a young age, but was also allowed if not encouraged to investigate subjects that I found interesting. I will admit my interest grew primarily when introduced to more traditional ideas about the natural world firsthand, intrigue drove me more than any resentment ever could.
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a7880e No.818300
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Evolution is absolute bullshit. Even Darwin himself said that his theory would have to be proven by extensive evidence in the fossil record. Still looking for that missing link? Keep looking, it isn't there. If you want a more detailed explanation, see attached.
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a4d946 No.818305
>>818300
>Lloyd Anthony Pye Jr. (September 7, 1946 – December 9, 2013) was an American author and paranormal researcher best known for his promotion of the Starchild skull. He claimed it was the relic of a human-alien hybrid, although genetic testing showed it to be from a human male.
<known huxter attempting to show fundamental differences between beings that are clearly related via gross exaggeration, and constantly makes jokes rather than assess the fossils on any level beyond reading a headline
Yeah that's gonna be a no from me
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1773e0 No.818306
YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.
let's not forget cases like the paracas skulls as well.
Anyways, my money is on pre-flood hybrids:
>4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
>5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
>6 The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
>7 The Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.”
<Genesis 6
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a4d946 No.818307
>>818306
Oh hey what do ya know, we have an explanation that doesn't involve perverting Scripture with pseudoscience. Artificial deformation and birth defects, both happening at a tender age when the skull is malleable.
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1085d5 No.818308
>>818306
I believe in the nephilim, or at least the message of the Enochian stories, to not do the sins they did (witchcraft, wamaking, fornication, sinning against animals, eating the blood, etc, etc), this has nothing to do with it. These literally aren't even giants.
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1773e0 No.818309
>>818307
>he didn't watch the video
you realize the paracas skulls have been recently dna tested and they didn't match up with homo sapiens right? and that they don't have the fissures in the same places as humans, nor share the same skull volume as humans, right? Cranial deformations don't affect those things.
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1773e0 No.818310
>>818308
Genesis only says there existed giants in those times, not that all the Sons of God/Nephilim were giants, much less the hybrid children born to them. The scriptures say nothing about how those hybrid children would've looked.
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a4d946 No.818313
>>818309
>you realize the paracas skulls have been recently dna tested and they didn't match up with homo sapiens right?
https://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/918241/Aliens-UFO-Paracas-skulls-DNA-tests-Peru-Brian-Foerster
Looks like he changed his tune, but still wants to keep up appearances with some other fabricated controversey. I wouldn't be sure with cranial volume, but I think ancient Peruvians have some rather large skulls on their own, especially from the time period these elongated ones are from, so I'm going to call shenanigans on that.
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1085d5 No.818314
>>818310
Read first Enoch, the hybrids would've at least been big.
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1773e0 No.818317
>>818313
>Research by sceptics later uncovered…
>sceptics
>"""research"""
So, no actual scientists involved in the "debunking" process here. Yeah, that's reassuring…
>he appears to now accept they were probably human in origin
"appears" is the key weasel word here, because this article is literally admitting to inserting its own opinionated and distorted interpretation of the facts. Foerster never "changed his tune", because he never said what the article claims he said in the first place. You can cross check his actual videos for yourself:
https://youtu.be/r1k_b-jmz3k
https://youtu.be/k5vMzW2XyEk
https://youtu.be/tz1ZyPbuSmU
https://youtu.be/Udwo8Kvvp6Y
Notice how he never mentions aliens/ufos in any of them, unlike what that piece of tabloid fake news would have you believe. The article also seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a haplogroup is, considering that its basing its entire "debunking" argument/speculation on it. His latest videos on it clearly have him stating what has been his position the entire time, which is that the skulls are "more likely not 'homo sapien sapiens', but rather 'homo sapien paracas'".
Anyways, even IF there wasn't a lot of genetic difference, or a whopping 25% volume difference wasn't a big deal, the fissures in the skulls not matching up with humans, and the spinal column placement not matching up with humans, are a much bigger deal.
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947f7e No.818323
>>818317
>So, no actual scientists involved in the "debunking" process here. Yeah, that's reassuring…
About as reassuring as him not revealing the identity of the geneticists who conducted these tests.
>Notice how he never mentions aliens/ufos in any of them
Why attend a UFO conference then? Seems more like the only reason he doesn't mention it is because he doesn't want to scare any of his followers off.
https://youtu.be/oH6dnfjh4Vk
>Anyways, even IF there wasn't a lot of genetic difference, or a whopping 25% volume difference wasn't a big deal
I'd wonder if these shady genetic tests were conducted under the best conditions. Can't rule out contamination
>he never mentions aliens once!
<keeps saying they're an angel hybrid
Come on now
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7632ec No.818324
>>818288
You seem to have a chip on your shoulder because you get angry at the inspired word, and get snappy with any who disagree. I recognize your posts because they always have an angry and condescending tone.
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27c61f No.818328
>>818323
>About as reassuring as him not revealing the identity of the geneticists who conducted these tests.
He openly cited all the labs involved. If anyone were really determined enough, I'm sure it wouldn't be much trouble to call those labs up to see which of their limited staff of researchers were involved. You're making it sound like he sent the samples to area 51, as if it would be impossible to track down such minutia.
>Why attend a UFO conference then?
Who the heck cares what he does in his free time? What next, are you going to tell me he has some weird kinky fetish next, as if that would be relevant to anything? The silly article you naively believed, said he attributed the dna results to alien origins, when he demonstrably didn't, and never proposed any scientific hypothesis about those results relating to aliens ever.
>Seems more like the only reason he doesn't mention it is because he doesn't want to scare any of his followers off.
So on the one hand he's a ufo nut that panders to other ufo nuts (even going so far as to attend their conferences, oh no!), but yet he's afraid that mentioning aliens will scare off those same ufo nut followers of his? Are ufo chasers inexplicably allergic to aliens now? Talk about mental gymnastics. At least try getting your story straight before posting about it.
>I'd wonder if these shady genetic tests were conducted under the best conditions. Can't rule out contamination
which is why it would've been helpful if actual scientists were the ones trying to debunk his work. Until then, we're still left with what we have. But one would think small things like that would've been eliminated just from the sample size and by delegating the analysis to multiple independent labs.
>>he never mentions aliens once!
><keeps saying they're an angel hybrid
>Come on now
hey, that's my hypothesis! He has enough accomplishments already, so no need to let him take credit for that idea (which he's never even mentioned anyway).
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404547 No.818333
>>818324
>You seem to have a chip on your shoulder because you get angry at the inspired word
All you did was go on about materialism and such without addressing the specified topic.
>and get snappy with any who disagree
You've given no alternative as to what these things are or where they fit into our world. If you give me an alternative, we can discuss it in a civilized manner.
>I recognize your posts because they always have an angry and condescending tone.
Only to those who wish to preach rather than discuss.
>>818328
My point was that he seems to promote the more ambiguous claims outright, and could leave the more outlandish concepts for later on. I've seen no reason to call those things anything other than regular humans with some form of deformity, be it natural or artificial. The fact you even consider the possibility that angels, fully spiritual beings, could mate with humans is quite frankly disgusting.
https://paranormalpeopleonline.com/paracas-elongated-skull-dna-results-what-results/
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714c5c No.818336
>>818333
>My point was that he seems to promote the more ambiguous claims outright, and could leave the more outlandish concepts for later on
you assert that so confidently, as if you actually watched any of his videos which I linked here. The real moral of the story here, is that you should stop falling for fake news clickbait articles online that misrepresent everything they're reporting on.
>I've seen no reason to call those things anything other than regular humans with some form of deformity
First of all, that's basically already asserted by the definition of a haplogroup (which tracks lineages of mutations). Secondly, what exactly do you think it means to say they're a sub-classification of "homo sapien"? The important part is that they're distinct enough to not be homo sapien sapiens.
>The fact you even consider the possibility that angels, fully spiritual beings, could mate with humans is quite frankly disgusting.
You realize that "angel" just means "messenger", right? and that those entities in Genesis aren't referred to as "angels" anyway, and that the bible even says God himself was disgusted at these creatures (hece the flood)? All of this is perfectly scriptural anon, if you have a problem with that, it's more likely due to your own biases in interpreting the scriptures. If on the other hand you don't see the scriptures as being relevant at all, then you're on the wrong board my friend.
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a4d946 No.818338
>>818336
>fake news clickbait articles online
Like ones that keep claiming that these clearly human skulls are something else?
>The important part is that they're distinct enough to not be homo sapien sapiens.
Morphology doesn't lie, anon. It looks about the same as any other person that's suffered from a cranial deformity of this sort. They are homo sapiens sapiens, not some genetically distinct offshoot, and most ceratinly not the result of some "angel," or whatever you wish to call it, breeding with humans in this one obscure portion of the world.
>All of this is perfectly scriptural anon, if you have a problem with that, it's more likely due to your own biases in interpreting the scriptures
<mixes his own theology with conspiracy-tier nonsense that makes regular Christians look like a joke
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714c5c No.818341
>>818338
>>fake news clickbait articles online
>Like ones that keep claiming that these clearly human skulls are something else?
You mean the sources conducting the only research on this subject at all, spearheaded by actual scientists? If anything makes Christians look like a joke, it's wilfully ignoring research like what you're doing right now. I've provided nothing but primary sources with the people on the ground conducting the actual studies. Meanwhile, you keep linking to obscure opinion blogs that have no qualifications whatsoever. Be honest, your problem isn't with the science, it's with the fact that this information isn't mainstream knowledge.
>Morphology doesn't lie, anon.
And the morphology shows their fissures, spinal placement, and volume are all highly abnormal for homo sapien sapiens, and couldn't have been produced by mechanical means like head binding. Facts which you keep conveniently ignoring and hand waving away.
>It looks about the same as any other person that's suffered from a cranial deformity of this sort. They are homo sapiens sapiens, not some genetically distinct offshoot
And my peach faced lovebird parrot looks almost exactly like a masked lovebird parrot, despite those being totally separate species. The fact that you think you can just lazily eyeball genectic branches like this is ridiculous.
>most ceratinly not the result of some "angel," or whatever you wish to call it, breeding with humans in this one obscure portion of the world.
The bible says what it says anon. If you belive the bible contains any historical truth to it whatsoever, then it shouldn't be a stretch to imagine that some remnants of those events might still be left behind somewhere. It's also not confined to Peru, as even your trash article stated the relation between the Paracas skulls and skulls from other locations around the world. If you're just skeptical because they haven't been found all over the place, then you're making a lot of assumptions about how well remains can survive intact for that long, not to mention assumptions about what the distribution of peoples was like during those times.
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27a885 No.818348
>>818341
You know what, you're absolutely right. I've been such a fool for not listening to one practically amatuer archaeologist who has credentials only vaguely related to his research. As of now I reject all of the scientific intelligentsia and all of their well documented findings, and vow to show the truth of angels breeding with humans to make conehead children all over the world that's only discussed in Youtube videos. You've shown me the light anon, your interpretation of the Bible is true and I was blind.
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ef5d37 No.818351
>>818341
Drop the Paracas skulls bullshit. Those are post-flood bones anyway.
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ab5a59 No.818916
>>818750
So how drastic of a "purely morphological" change can be yielded from this? And how does one account for the obvious genetic differences between us and our closest fossil relatives?
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697368 No.818944
>>818066
Does the theory of pre-Adamic humans explain it? LIke maybe there was a species of humans that evolved, and then God created Adam as the first man to be made in God's image? It would seem to gel with Cain's concerns about being murdered out in the world, as well as his taking a wife and founding a city.
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f38ffe No.818953
>>818944
>pre-Adamites
<humans lacking a soul, making them essentially animals
Bestiality is a no-no, anon. Besides, we wouldn't know where to draw the line as to who is included within his lineage.
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f38ffe No.818954
>>818953
Oop, forgot the pic
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a6e2a7 No.819643
>>818112
Mfw I'll never engage in theological debates with Elves and Dwarves in the Tolkien-esque antediluvian, pre-Ice Age world when multiple humanoids were still running around.
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848f5c No.819812
>>819643
Feel like neanderthals and denisovans would be the only ones that you'd have a decent convo with, classic erectus and the hobbits might get it. Ergaster and habilis could speak, but I doubt anything relating to belief systems would be feasible to them.
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