/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>785451

He's right if you're saved.

<The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: — 2 Peter 2:9

<There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. — 1 Corinthians 10:13

However for the reprobate, God has given them up to a reprobate mind to do those things which are not convenient.

<For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

— Romans 1:26-28

>>785472

Stop listening to meme preachers. Anything is possible with God. Your stupid doctrine insults Christ. You're saying you've discovered a sin that even he can't conquer and is greater than he ever will be.

>>785441

I'd say he's correct, though I wouldn't necessarily word it the way he does. I'd probably evoke the example of Job more than anything else. Suffering isn't inherently bad, nor is it a sign that god has abandoned you or that you've sinned. If you've sin is punished only if committed willfully, and even then not always.

I dislike the phrasing there because it could be misinterpreted to effectively blame God for your misery, which is the opposite of what you should do in a time of suffering. Suffering is a time to turn to God for consolation, not away from him out of bitterness. Trust me, it was in a time of serious mental/emotional darkness that I began my conversion and that was after reading Job which is still easily my favorite book of the OT… I remember crying at the end. God doesn't allow you (or mankind in general) to suffer so that you might turn away from him, but that you may turn towards him.

>>785701

I have a really hard time with the book of Job. I get the lesson that it's trying to convey, but it's impossible for me to read it (assuming it is literal rather than allegory) as anything other than one guy being made miserable for the purposes of settling a casual bar bet between supernatural beings.

I know that sounds like edgy athiestposting, but damn. If my wife and kids died, a new wife and kids wouldn't smooth over the death of my family.

>>785706

>as anything other than one guy being made miserable for the purposes of settling a casual bar bet between supernatural beings

"Many look upon the entire contents of the book as a freely invented parable which is neither historical nor intended to be considered historical; no such man as Job ever lived. Catholic commentators, however, almost without exception, hold Job to have actually existed and his personality to have been preserved by popular tradition. Nothing in the text makes it necessary to doubt his historical existence. The Scriptures seem repeatedly to take this for granted (cf. Ezekiel 14:14; James 5:11; Tobit 2:12-15, according to the Vulgate — in the Greek text of Tobias there is no mention of Job). All the Fathers considered Job an historical person; some of their testimonies may be found in Knabenbauer, "Zu Job" (Paris, 1886), 12-13. The Martyrology of the Latin Church mentions Job on 10 May, that of the Greek Church on 6 May (cf. Acta SS.' II, May, 494). The Book of Job, therefore, has a kernel of fact, with which have been united many imaginative additions that are not strictly historical. What is related by the poet in the prose prologue and epilogue is in the main historical: the persons of the hero and his friends; the region where be lived; his good fortune and virtues; the great misfortune that overwhelmed him and the patience with which he bore it; the restoration of his Prosperity. It is also to be accepted that Job and his friends discussed the origin of his sufferings, and that in so doing views were expressed similar to those the poet puts into the mouths of his characters. The details of the execution, the poetic form, and the art shown in the arrangement of the arguments in the dispute are, however, the free creation of the author. The figures expressive of the wealth of Job both before and after his trial are imaginatively rounded. Also in the narrative of the misfortunes it is impossible not to recognize a poetic conception which need not be considered as strictly historical. The scene in heaven (i, 6; ii, 1) is plainly an allegory which shows that the Providence of God guides the destiny of man (cf. St. Thomas, "In Job"). The manifestation of God (xxxviii, 1) generally receives a literal interpretation from commentators. St. Thomas, however, remarks that it may also be taken metaphorically as an inner revelation accorded to Job."

>>785499

I'm saying God doesn't make mistakes.

i'd say he's incorrect, because the Sovereign Lord has ordained that each and every fallen human being has a weight of Sin upon their shoulders that they can never carry the debt of; requiring them to place their trust in that same Lord Jesus Christ to free them from debt slavery and redeem them

then we have the commandments of Christ for His followers that they be perfect just as God their Father is perfect, and that they love their enemies – amongst many other duties – all things that God the Son gives believers as necessary requirements for being a Christian, and all being beyond the ability of even the most saintly disciple without the empowerment of the Holy Spirit

on top of that we have the circumstances of life, all of which are designed by God to show the depth of need and lack of self-sufficiency the Christian has; humbling, sanctifying and drawing the saint to a place of dependence on Christ rather than their own strength, so that no man can boast, and so that all glory will be attributed to His grace

>>785499

>You're saying you've discovered a sin that even he can't conquer

Matthew 12:31

>>785441

I'm tired of life. I'm tired of sin. I DON'T WANT IT ANYMORE!! I don't want anymore suffering. no more disease. no more degeneracy. i just want it to end. :''''(

>>786208

I'm tired of the world. of its materialistic pleasures, of its selfishness. i'm sick of it

>>786208

>>786210

And yet, such is also "want." Find yourself a monastery to recover in.

Also, find the right books.

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. — 1 Corinthians 10:13

>>786225

yes i will consider it. do you know of any monasteries in New England, mainly CT?

>>786501

There’s a famous Russian one in New York. But first you must begome.

>>785441

Your friend is smart. The trials God gives us are sufficient to our salvation. Some are greater than others. Job, for example, lost everything but still overcame it. After he overcame it he flourished tenfold.