/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>784676

Hey man, cool it. If you're worried about it, then you clearly are worried about offending God, and didn't commit this sin. take it easy and God bless.

>>784683

thank you!

when i was younger i was angry at god for the loss of a loved one. I regret my past youth and I am sorry for it

>>784676

>>784689

thank you…so much!!!!

a

>>784694

sorry captcha is acting weird

>>784689

I couldn't get through his presentation style.

He also has a weird obsession with that gnostic atheist Jordan Peterson

>>784829

That "gnostic atheist" has brought more people into the actual church than anyone else in recnt history. Hence why pastors are examining what he's doing. Don't forget that God often chooses unworthy Samaritans to make his points, and stop listening to envious laymen Pharisees like Vox Day.

>>785027

nobody ever points to any evidence that he's turned anyone to Christianity. I've looked at his fan club on reddit and nobody there claims to have turned to Christ because of him, they take on the same gnostic atheist outlook on life that he does.

Vox Day points out JBP has an agenda with real clarity, and JBP has been too afraid to address this. JBP does not believe in Christ, he believes in, essentially the satanic idea of becoming your own God and that Bible stores are mere psychological narrative templates and nothing more.

Don't be deceived by his vain psychobabble.

>>785038

>nobody ever points to any evidence that he's turned anyone to Christianity.

Except for the countless pastors that attest to converts being brought in by Peterson specifically, including the one you were complaining about above. Are you really going to take the baseless claims of butthurt laity over the testimonials of clergymen that oversee their congregations every week?

>I've looked at his fan club on reddit

>reddit

Tigger, are you serious? Not even the dedicated christian subreddits are filled with Christians. What planet are you from that you expect any kind of Christian revival testimonials to show up on reddit of all places? Of course the JBP subreddit is gonna be filled with fedoras, just like the rest of reddit is filled with fedoras.

>JBP does not believe in Christ

He doesn't confess to believe in him, but that's precisely what makes him accessible to the secular masses. Society is in such a state of degeneracy, that no religious figure has reached the height of popularity JBP has in a long time, and he accomplished this by speaking the language of this lost generation that hates the sound of the name "Jesus".

>he believes in, essentially the satanic idea of becoming your own God

Advocating for personal responsibility is not the same thing as advocating becoming your own god. Nihilism and moral relativism are the only things that lead to the actual satanist concept you're referencing, and JBP is explicitly against both of those.

>and that Bible stores are mere psychological narrative templates and nothing more.

I'd like to see a citation of where he explicitly says they're "nothing more". He emphasises the bible's symbolism, yes, but symbolism is not mutually exclusive with factual accounts, and he never goes into whether the bible documents actual historical details or not. If you're autistically focused on everything but the literal interpretation of the bible being wrong, then you're just an apostate bible idolater that stands against everything the early church fathers ever taught about the bible.

>Don't be deceived by his vain psychobabble.

I agree, Vox Day is full of vain psychobabble.

>>785067

not that guy but if the doesn't confess the name of Jesus then whats the point. Yeilding to the secular world because people hate Jesus doesn't bring good fruit. If he wants to set people in the right path then he has to mention Jesus, if not it's all for nothing.

>>785027

So much this

>>785067

>>785070

hebrews 11:6

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

>>785067

>He doesn't confess to believe in him, but that's precisely what makes him accessible to the secular masses. Society is in such a state of degeneracy, that no religious figure has reached the height of popularity JBP has in a long time, and he accomplished this by speaking the language of this lost generation that hates the sound of the name "Jesus".

That's their fault. No one else's. Your whole premise supports a distrust of the church. Which Jesus himself built to be his vehicle to spreading his message. It's for no one else. And you will not find salvation nowhere else.

>>785098

That's a really odd thing to believe that an internet dad LARPer who thinks of the Bible as mere stories and won't confess Christ as his saviour is Evangelising people towards Christ. No, he's supporting "Cultural Christianity".

>>785067

>countless pastor testimonies

Well since it's countless, I'll give you an easy task of providing me 100 distinct examples of this. Failing that, it's not countless and you've probably seen 2 or 3 internet commenters with members of congregation talking about JBP.

>reddit isn't Christian

Not my point. I'm saying the most active discussion site for JBP rarely features Christians. Sparing that, where else would JBP's flock be?

>He doesn't confess

Then he's not a Christian. He says he acts as if God exists, and hates the question because he finds it confining. It's a simple yes or no answer he's too afraid to commit to because he would immediately alienate some of his income/fanbase. He even dodges the question of Christ by saying "well that depends on what you mean by Christ".

You're treating JBP like a religious figure.

>Self-deification

His whole notion of Jungian archetypes and self-authoring and narratology is to self-actualise to the point of "Godhood" or a supreme conscious state akin to God. None of that is remotely Christian.

>Provide explicit statement

It's implicit in his lectures, he at most adopts some Rene Girard style of Christian anthropology with some narrative and archetypal constructs. None of that indicates sincere belief in any of the contents of Scripture.

>I agree, Vox Day is full of vain psychobabble.

Vox Day never uses psychobabble, Peterson does. But it's clear you're not arguing with any sense of charity. Peterson is a false prophet and you should wake up from the deluding cult of personality he built himself.

I don't know why you're siding with Peterson over Christ, but you should stop.

>>785184

>His whole notion of Jungian archetypes and self-authoring and narratology is to self-actualise to the point of "Godhood" or a supreme conscious state akin to God. None of that is remotely Christian.

About the only thing he's preferential (which is still nil) in comparison to here is the wonky new ager types (or theosophists) who teach the same "Christ mind" nonsense. Although they predate Jung, some now use Jung as well. In either case, they strip what Christ actually means, and appear to equate it with Buddhahood/enlightenment. When Christ wasn't enlightened in this sense whatsoever - he is God. And there's no stupid "hero's journey". He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm

Read the bottom section "Sins against the Holy Ghost"

>>785070

Him not publicly confessing the name of Jesus is irrelevant if he's actively inspiring others to follow Jesus and isn't promoting any other false idols instead. As has already been stated, God repeatedly chooses unworthy Samaritans to make his points and do his bidding. Jacob vs Esau, Joseph's brothers, etc, etc. But the one thing Jesus said we could possibly ever rely on to "judge" people in any practical way, was to judge them by their fruits. Yet all the butthurt anti-JBP people seem to do, is turn a blind eye to the man's fruits, and judge him based purely on vague speculation and Pharisee-tier legalism:

>He inspires people to take up personal responsibility?

<That just means he must be a Satanist.

>He warns people against Marxism?

<That just means he's a lying degenerate liberal and/or Nazi

>He opposes the LGBTWTFBBQ+ agenda, just like the church?

<Whatever, he's still bad because reasons

What people imply when they make these kinds of rationalizations without observing a person's fruits, is that they believe themselves to actually know the mind of God, and are above having to use the methods God explicitly provided for us somehow. It's nothing more than the sin of pride.

>>785184

>I'll give you an easy task of providing me 100 distinct examples

Literally just look through the youtube comments on his videos, or the comments/interviews on that other pastor's videos. Youtube has no way of easily citing comments, so you're on your own for that one, but there are tons there hidden away. And that's just the easy ones online, not counting the examples I've run into at my tiny local parish. I've talked to at least 4 converts that have mentioned him as an inspiration for converting, and when I brought him up to the pastor, he acknowledged that a decent chunk of the younger congregation likes him, and that a number of recent visitors interested in joining the church have mentioned him as well. I bet you'd probably even be able to verify this for yourself at your own local churches by asking around (if you're in an English speaking part of North America, can't speak for other parts of the world). I live in one of the most liberal, fedora-ridden cities in the entire continent, and even I'm running into JBP converts in a tiny orthodox church, so you might find even more people if you actually cared to look (which you don't, so you won't).

>Not my point. I'm saying the most active discussion site for JBP rarely features Christians. Sparing that, where else would JBP's flock be?

Bull crap, that was 100% your point in framing it that way, pretending that no other significant discussion of JBP happens elsewhere, not to mention completely ignoring that a lot of it actually happens offline as well (especially with regards to matters of church). Also, news flash: JBP rose to stardom on YouTube, and he is primarily a YouTuber, therefore the vast majority of discussion about him actually happens on YouTube *shock*. Naturally, his "flock" would be on the same platform he posts on and actively engages with, not freaking reddit of all places. A single one of his videos gets more comments and video responses in a day than his entire subreddit gets in a year. Like seriously, did you even think through the argument you gave here?

>Then he's not a Christian.

No one said he was, so that's irrelevant. Once again, what matters are his fruits, because *shock* God chooses "unworthy" people sometimes. It's not our role to judge those who do God's bidding.

>You're treating JBP like a religious figure.

No, you are. Quite literally by saying he's a heretical gnostic, when such a classification would only make sense if he were actually claiming to be Christian, or even theistic at all. I on the other hand, am treating him as someone who's done a lot of good for the church, nothing more, nothing less.

>His whole notion of Jungian archetypes and self-authoring and narratology is to self-actualise

Sure, via personal responsibility.

>to the point of "Godhood" or a supreme conscious state akin to God.

No. You need some kind of serious citations or philosophical arguments to back that kind of claim up. On what planet does "clean up your room", "have kids", or "don't act like a victim", constitute some kind of new age god consciousness? Not to mention from someone who doesn't even step outside the limited materialist framework, or claim to be anything more than an agnostic of all things? Your argument would literally imply that all psychologists promote Satanism, because he's basically just saying stuff that any psychologist would say to his patients. Are you secretly some kind of anti-psychiatry Scientologist anon? Cause your argument here is incredibly weak.

>None of that is remotely Christian.

Actually, that's false anyway: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Theosis

>It's implicit in his lecture

Weak. None of what you said invalidates the logical FACT that unless explicitly denied, symbols imply literally nothing about underlying literal accuracy. Not to mention that JBP is best friends with this orthodox icon carver that regularly makes this point very explicitly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzdjUMkxsdE

So it is highly likely that he's aware of how symbolism works, and intentionally treads lightly to not rule out literal interpretations. He even got a ton of flack for not explicitly denying the possibility of the Resurrection literally happening for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDd2hXZPzb4

Thus it is very likely he knows exactly what he's doing in keeping it ambiguous. Your interpretation of what he's "implicitly" saying is just lazy uninformed speculation.

>>785922 (cont.)

>Peterson is a false prophet and you should wake up from the deluding cult of personality he built himself.

Classic case of projection. What you're describing literally describes Vox Day to a T. Look at all the overnight followers he gained just for openly bashing Peterson. He knew there was a market out there just foaming at the mouth, ready for someone to rationalize their dislike of Peterson for them, and he captitalized on it big time. This is despite the fact that Peterson is just as much against SJW's as Vox Day supposedly is, and if anything, has been a far bigger boon to the whole anti-leftist movement than Day has. But it's obvious that Day just chose to capitalize on the whole anti-SJW stuff to sell books as well. And then he just moved on to the next "big thing" to profit off of, and that was JBP. It wasn't enough to just be an edgy anti-leftist, he's now trying to be an edgy alt-righter too. I'm sure he'll be up to the same antics again with another book of the same vain soon, covering some other /pol/-tier topic/personality.

There's definitely a false prophet trying to cultivate a cult of personality here, and it ain't Peterson.

>I don't know why you're siding with Peterson over Christ,

<implying anyone thinks those two are even remotely comparable with each other

It's not like I'm arguing for JBP to be canonized as a saint ffs. Literally the only thing I'm doing, is clarifying his positions to people that can't seem to bother actually listening to him, and have been infected with the Vox Day propaganda virus. Meanwhile, some of you guys seem to have an unhealthy obsession with taking JBP down for no concrete reasons at all whatsoever, other than the fact that you don't like him. Well, tough luck, but you're the ones that need to swallow your pride and stop being Pharisees.

to blaspheme means to give a false report or bear false witness

to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit is to do something the Pharisees were on the verge of committing; attributing the work of the Spirit to satan

this is a sin where one would need to have been graced with so much light as to have God reveal Himself in a magnificent and undeniable way to a man, yet that man say it was an evil thing - a morally repugnant and vile corruption - and thus this defamation of God on the part of man, an atrocity against the Almighty which will never be forgiven

>>785923

Peterson has been persistent and has never recanted from his usurpation of scripture with his false hermeneutics. He just makes stuff up. It's not just scripture he shoehorns every potentially useful notion into his formless philosophy of balance and it only works on people who don't understand what the terms are that he uses which almost always implicitly contradict what he says follows from them. He does this with winnie the pooh everything whether it's scripture, mesopotamian myth or eastern concepts like Tao; clearly not understanding them himself or just using it as a rhetorical tool to make stupid people think he's profound.

He's never bothered clarifying what he means from his statements and has never corrected his misuse of terms and concepts which are concrete outside of his postmodern woo-woo because he doesn't need to. He knows that his woo-woo only works on the dumb and blind and anyone already able to question his manipulation isn't manipulatable by him and thus irrelevant to his intention of conning people with pretty words.

This should be enough to show people he's incredibly dishonest but then he always ends up topping himself later on. I remember when I looked at his Million Dollar patreon that he was ragging against post-modernism ruining schools even though the entirety of his shpiel is postmodern "interpretation of truth", anti-logos dogshit. For winnie the pooh sake he even pissed off Evo-Psych people for misusing their own nonsense which is made up in a similar manner, it's absurd, a farce.

Regardless of what you think of VoxDay his analysis on Peterson is largely concise and correct. I and other have pointed that out for long before Vox ever dove into the gnittygritty of his books to make polemic against him. The comparison to Hubbard and that lineage is obvious by form, I've brought that up long before Vox ever even got wind of the guy. He's a textbook gnostic guru and nothing more. Though I Peterson for exposing the utter bankruptcy of liberalism and killing any remnant desire within me that it could possibly have any merit. So for that I thank his great service to me, a tremendous help, perhaps the only genuine help he's given anybody in contrast to his psychobabble that induces complacent mediocrity.

>>785945

> Though I Peterson

Though I thank Peterson*