/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

No. There have been people who were gay and turned to Christ. Fr. Seraphim Rose was one such person.. but he went full celibate and fought his passions in general. Perhaps this is required for some.

Not gay or even had such thoughts, but I deserved death all the same. I even stole from a nun once (she was having a bake sale). Besides that, I was just a cocky thug. Some people might'v e thought I'd never change either, but thank Christ he turned my life around. How could I become so merciless, when mercy has been shown to me?

>>768132

father seraphim rose wasn't gay

what does he think about people who have homosexual thoughts but don't act on them? Not that I care too much;

>>768127

[-]

>>768127

A literal fag have more chances to go to heaven than Anderson

>>768137

He was before he became a Christian. Stopping this was part of his conversion.

"In the summer of 1955, between his junior and senior years at college, Eugene met Finnish-born Jon Gregerson, through whom he came into initial contact with the Orthodox faith. Eugene came out as homosexual to a close friend from college after his mother discovered letters penned between her son and Walter Pomeroy, a friend from high school. Gregerson, a practicing Russian Orthodox Christian at the time, introduced Eugene to Orthodoxy. Just as Gregerson was choosing to abandon his Orthodoxy, Eugene was inspired to learn more about the faith. Eugene later shed his identity as a gay man as he slowly accepted Orthodoxy, eventually ending his lengthy relationship with Gregerson.[1] This culminated in Eugene's decision to enter the Church, being received into the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia through chrismation in 1962."

https://orthodoxwiki.org/Seraphim_(Rose)

I know it's uncomfortable to some, but I'm not going to whitewash it. I am going to praise God that he turned his life around and cured this sickness. We're all sick in some way, and it'll inspire others.

Wha t a meme

>>768127

He's close in that sodomites are essentially given up as reprobates and it's incredibly rare/difficult for them to return to Christ.

>>768132

Isn't Fr Seraphim Rose a schismatic who rejects being subject to the Pope? If so then it shows he has not turned to Christ. People who were previously sodomites should be held at arms length even after seeming conversions due to the destruction such a disorder has on the intellect.

>>768200

>a schismatic who rejects being subject to the Pope

He was Orthodox. So You tell me :^)

no, that's blasphemous. if homosexuals cannot repent, how can any thief? or any other sinner?

I’m a Catholic trying to return to the faith i had entrusted to me years ago, and lately I struggle with repelling my homosexual desires. I don’t think a homosexual is forever lost: if he/she truly repents, there’s the small hope he/she will be able to change with the Lord’s mercy.

What scares me is the indoctrination we see today to “embrace queerness” even if you are totally heterosexual.

>>768227

>act against God's will

>become degenerate

>hurr durr christians are retarded this wasn't punishment for disobeying God when I disobeyed God

>>768227

>I'm gay

>pic

I'm noticing a pattern here…

>>768227

Repent sinner. Being content in your sins doesn't make it okay. Please tell me you at least have quit the porn corrupting your soul.

>>768227

I read your post and initially glossed over it because clearly you're aware of the cause, I only realized later you said nothing of acting against it.

You're not an unrepentant sinner who's fully aware of the situation are you Anon?

Can someone please pray for me.

I think Im posesed or crazy.

Thanks

>>768252

Mind elaborating on that friend?

No, I don't believe he is right. While incredibly difficult, change is possible. You can read/listen to many stories about people who:

<previously lived a homosexual lifestyle (which naturally began with them getting molested or experimenting as a child, consuming gay porn, having a gay friend take them to gay bars and pull them into the lifestyle, etc.)

<realized the harm they were inflicting on themselves (whether it be through reading the Bible, becoming more depraved with their behavior over time and recognizing that, etc.)

<repented of their homosexual thoughts and actions

<over time, began having normal attractions to the opposite sex

<met someone of the opposite sex and settled down with them, having children (assuming they didn't go too far with their homo behavior by chopping up their genitalia)

The more I observe their lifestyles, the more I begin to realize homosexuality is just a glorified fetish that anyone can develop under the right circumstances. If I forced myself to watch gay porn right now, or got sodomized by some guys in prison, I'm confident homosexual thoughts would develop because of that trauma. Whether I'd take it further with increasingly depraved levels of homosexual pornography or seek out gay sex would be up to me. Currently, I have no such thoughts or desires, because I haven't engaged in that lifestyle whatsoever.

>>768255

I stared into the abbys for to long and it scared me. only upside I try to find the lord. Repented my sin, etc. I try to pray and it gets easier to do but I stil feel tired all the time.

I do feel so empty and disconnected and haunted. All I see is sin and distruction waiting to happen.

I studied the occult and now im scared. I dont want to die, get beheaded, live, or burn in hell. or be trapped in a birth loop.

Im weak and scared and stuck.

I dont know if im able to love. I do care about people but I feel cold.

>>768271

Relax, anxiety is of the Devil.

Will pray friend.

You should seek confession I think, remember, you're not burning in hellfire as of now, God sees and knows how you really feel about what you have done so there's no need to be afraid, it's clear that your repentance is honest so keep at it.

You're far from being damaged beyond repair so such defeatist attitude is uncalled for.

>>768272

Thank you !

>>768127

>mass murderers, rapists, thieves, war criminals, masturbaters, fornicators, blasphemers, and heretics can ALL come to Christ

>but not homosexuals

Baptists sure are strange.

No, but it very rarely happens (much like with apostates, blasphemers, &c.).

>>768276

Well, it is among the most disgusting sins out there…

t. a guy who still struggles with SSA

>>768238

But you can become straight again too, it really isn't that big of a deal - it could be harder for some people though.

>>768245

>>768248

I'm not a christian, so I don't feel like I need to change. I feel extremely bitterful towards modern women, so I'm okay with the fact that I like guys. I respect your religion though, I know most gays are trash. In the end it doesn't matter, I'll be a virgin incel for a long time.

>>768290

>among the most disgusting sins

Being disgusting doesn't really mean anything.

>>768200

I'm really not sure why Orthodox are the schismatics. Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, or Alexandria are not the ones who changed the Nicene Creed.. which even Rome agreed to when it was written, and also agreed to the anathemas contained in it if it was altered. All 4 other patriarchates held true to this, except Rome. But everyone else are schismatics?

Besides that, if Rome was the sole authority, why were there ever councils to begin with? Why did they get dragged on for hundreds of years even… when one bishop could have solved everything with the flick of his finger? Why didn't that happen for a thousand years? No one ever explains this to me either. There'd be no use for Councils or all the tragedy if this was the case.

In any case, praise God that a gay man found Christ. He dared not even talk about his past fondly, and truly died in baptism. We all have our sins, and may we all follow the same route.

>>768484

there are many documents from the early church about how all bishops must submit to the bishop of rome like pope clement, julius and boniface

>>768175

You know the Ortho wiki has a citation on this which leads nowhere on this… There is one source as far as i know claiming he was gay and that is one of his relatives a long time after his death. Why does it matter so much to people that he was gay at one point? i only see it as an attempt to normalize the idea that people are born gay which is contrary to Orthodox teaching.

>>768306

It’s one of the three sins which scream vengeance against God’s Throne: take what you want from that.

>>768200

>should be held at arms length

t. soteriological exclusivism

and all ye are brethren

for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

Everyone here is missing the point. It's a hermeneutical argument. Anecdotes about apparent homosexual conversions do not matter if the text says it's impossible. Anderson is making a basic application that almost every other bible teacher would shy away from, to his credit.

The passage in question:

>For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

>And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

>And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

(Rom. 1:26-28 KJV)

Anderson would say

1) you must be reprobate to those things which are not convenient

2) "those things" means homosexual acts

3) "reprobate" means they cannot be saved

therefore

4) homosexuals can never be saved

I've heard him also say that people who act effeminate might not be reprobates and it's still recoverable, they're just caught up in an evil culture.

I think he's wrong because of 1 Corinthians 6

>Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

>Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

>And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

(1 Cor. 6:9-11 KJV)

People on the list: "effeminate", "abusers of themselves with mankind". Paul then says "such were some of you", but now they're saved.

I see a few possibilities to reconcile these two passages:

>reprobate doesn't mean unsavable

>"such were some of you" doesn't imply that anyone present was a sodomite, even though that's on the list of the unrighteous

>there is some intrinsic difference between "burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet" and "abusers of themselves with mankind"

>they both mean sodomy, but it's possible to commit sodomy without being a reprobate so "to do those things which are not convenient" isn't prescriptive

>>768573

Do you think a father should let a repentant pedophile come and live with his children unguarded?

Just because you forgive doesn't mean you throw out prudence.

>>768619

That's a pretty compelling case, thanks for this

Are you familiar with any bible teacher who articulates it this way?

>>768633

>Anyone who seeks forgiveness is not, by definition is NOT reprobate.

Sorry, ignore my double-negative. cheeky satan!

>>768127

A reprobate isn't one who commits sin, it's one who refuses forgiveness by demanding the others to claim that their sin isn't a sin. Since they're incapable of admitting the truth, it means that they are reprobates.

>>768127

My mind is still filthy, even if I don't commit sodomy anymore. I bet I would relapse into faggotry in a moment, just like I've relapsed into masturbation.

>>768195

It's because they have to admit they were wrong, and all their complaints about oppression were mostly just people telling them the painful truth.

>>768227

You were tempted, and succumbed to your lust because of your original sin which you inherited from Adam.

The painful truth is that you were born to damn yourself, and this isn't God's fault - it's Adam's fault.

God knew this, and gave you the chance to apologise, be purified, and submit to him as a willing servant. Either take it, give up the lusts God himself designed you to have, or burn forever in Hell.

You were intended to Fall and be Redeemed. Your sin is not a mistake, but the drama upon which a real apology to God is built. God now wants you to come to him and be redeemed.

I'm not baptised - I'm still damned. I say this to you because it's the truth, not because I benefit from it being true.

>>768252

Are you baptised? Unless you are, there's no point in praying for you other than to beg God to take you to church.

>>768271

>I studied the occult and now im scared. I dont want to die, get beheaded, live, or burn in hell. or be trapped in a birth loop

I was an occultist until this year. Justin Martyr wrote about how the seed of the Logos or Word (The Word God used to make the world) existed within pre-Christian culture.

For instance, the Hebrew and English alphabets are both based on the Phoenician alphabet. Any occultist knows the importance of the Phoenician alphabet - that it functions as the Word with which the world is made.

Nothing you wanted out of occultism isn't there in Christianity. Immortality, super powers - everything.

I can provide links to my essays written as an occultist. Paganism was the toy I played with before I was mature enough to handle the sword of Christianity.

>I dont know if im able to love. I do care about people but I feel cold

God is a doctor, and sometimes doctors numb their patients.

>>769309

>it's one who refuses forgiveness by demanding the others to claim that their sin isn't a sin. Since they're incapable of admitting the truth, it means that they are reprobates

So someone who commits sodomy and dresses effeminately, but acknowledges that they're a sinner, isn't a reprobate?

How does such a person obtain salvation? By no longer commiting sodomy, and repenting of their sins?

Can a comparison can be made to an alcoholic or heroin addict who realizes that what they're doing is detrimental to their health, and doesn't try to hide from the fact?

What about people who can stop commiting sodomy, but still have sinful fantasies and hate themselves for it?

>>769342

>My mind is still filthy

Who said chastity was easy?

Read the scriptures (Christ Himself tells us it is purifying), pray often (pray the Rosary, actually), and confess your sins. Stay clean and take the Eucharist every Sunday.

>>768127

Can someone provide proof that ANY Christians prior to Steven Anderson believed this? I mean outside of the New Testament, obviously, because we can debate to death what those verses mean. It seems to me if his reprobate doctrine is true, SOME Christian before him ought to have discovered it in the Bible over the past 2000 years. And yes I know Christians used to execute homosexuals and consider sodomy an unspeakable sin. That's not the same thing. There's a big difference between saying someone should be executed and saying that it's impossible for them to repent and no matter how much they pray and ask for God's forgiveness they are headed for hell where they will burn forever. We don't even say that about murderers and rapists. Even when they are on death row we want them to pray for repentance with the clergy.

>>769366

>Can someone provide proof that ANY Christians prior to Steven Anderson believed this?

Yes. It is called Calvinism. Except he doesn't want to call himself a Calvinist because of sectarian bullshit.

You're being facetious OP. You took something he said and isolated it away its context.

Fun Fact:

The pagan Zoroastrianism believe in inability to repent for even struggling sodomites: sodomites are given only one chance to repent, and this is done through a ritual that involves the killing of a cat. After this ritual, the pagan fire worshippers will allow no further forgiveness.

>>768127

No and he doesn't have much of a nuanced understanding of what can cause someone to be a sodomite. For one I know he has even made exceptions in the past saying that if you are just a faggot for the sake of being a faggot you are unable to be saved but, if you are a faggot because you were raped as a child then you might be able of being saved. The thing is though that is no small exception. A very large amount of faggots are only faggots because of sexual abuse they received at a young age. Its actually gotten to be a bit of a meme, its crazy the amount of times that I've seen faggots talk about their experiences only for them eventually to drop the 'Oh yeah and my step dad raped me.'

Another very significant amount of sodomites are sodomites because they are in prison and the only way they can have sex with a human is with another man. They aren't really being fags because they like men, they are being fags because they like sex and they don't have anyone else to do it with.

And there are also fags who become fags out of desperation. I've seen this trend on places like /r9k/ where the incel types find it impossible to get a girlfriend so they turn to faggotry because it is the only way they can experience the romantic affection that they long for. Again they aren't fagging for the sake of faggotry.

So even if we say all the fags that are fags for the sake of being fags that discounts the many other fags who have different influences pushing them into faggotry.

>>769378

>Another very significant amount of sodomites are sodomites because they are in prison and the only way they can have sex with a human is with another man. They aren't really being fags because they like men, they are being fags because they like sex and they don't have anyone else to do it with.

I had sympathy when you mentioned the people who've been abused, but that's a poor excuse above. And even despite it taking a homosexual angle, it's still a sin to burn in lust and not be able to control yourself. It's not hard to be celibate. That's the biggest modern copout ever - that people think they "need" sex. It's the same excuse people make when people cheat on their spouses (be it men or women.. but often men.. say it's part of their primal urges or something). It's Darwinian thinking, and also another sin of our times… where man is reduced to physical drives and no longer in touch with his rational, let alone spiritual self.

>>769349

>Who said chastity was easy?

My mind is the last, difficult homestretch. I can feel how my lust offends the LORD, and how he won't yet have me. I pray to God to take away my sexuality, and I've even considered castration.

I hope that God will forgive this weakness, and purify me so I can be with him. I gave up sodomy for him - certainly, he'll remove my lust in return.

>Read the scriptures (Christ Himself tells us it is purifying)

I keep returning to that one bit in Mathew where Jesus says looking at a woman you aren't married to is adultery. I avoid women and never look at them because of this.

I commited sodomy with men, but I never lusted for men - I imagined being a lesbian during homosexual sex. So I can 100% guarantee that I'll never commit sodomy again. But, I still lust for women. I love women more than God. Just to be next to a beautiful woman - not even sex - is what my lustful heart really wants.

>pray often (pray the Rosary, actually)

I'm not baptised, and I'm trying to join the Catholic church. I pray an Our Father, the Apostles' creed and a Hail Mary when I wake up and when I go to sleep. Every time I take a sip of water, I give thanks.

It's all helped to keep my mind off sex, but I know the lust is still there.

>and confess your sins. Stay clean and take the Eucharist every Sunday

Sadly, I'm not baptised. I fantasize about the eucharist. My motivation currently is to prepare for RCIA, which I was told starts in the Fall.

I imagine myself as a skinny, starving wretch, and the church as the source of food. I see baptised Christians as beautiful, plump saints. That baptism is open to me - I've spoken to local churches, and they told me to just start coming to Mass - fills me with such joy.

>>769378

>A very large amount of faggots are only faggots because of sexual abuse they received at a young age

>Another very significant amount of sodomites are sodomites because they are in prison and the only way they can have sex with a human is with another man

I saw shemale porn when I was 7, and got naked to watch it with my female cousin. Later at age 12, I had non-penetrative sex with a another 12 year old boy. From then on, I commited sodomy with the same boy occasionally, and masturbated to lots of porn.

Our society is sick. I'm a very meek, shy guy, and if I'd been married to a 12 year old girl when I was 12, I'd have a nice, big Christian family right now, and a beautiful wife to love. But teenaged pregnancy is evil and destroys lifes, supposedly.

>>769389

You're correct. There is no excuse. I burn with lust for women, and wanted to have sex with a woman and used a man as a sex toy so I could pretend to have sex with a woman. To make myself even more disgusting, I also imagined myself as a woman during sodomy.

Even under a moral system where sodomy isn't wrong, anyone should be able to see why imagining someone else while you have sex with someone is wrong. Nothing excuses my actions and feelings, from any perspective.

>>769460

I know the other anon told you to pray, but prayer really does help keep the lust away. When the lustful thoughts come, of having sex, masturbating,etc. pray. It helps me a lot and has never failed me. You will always have an attraction to women, it's natural…i think you best choice is to keep fighting and to find a good christian wife.