/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>752334

Begome Orthodox

Orthodox, but with the mission zeal of the Catholics and love of Word as the Prots. :)

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>>752334

Galatians 1:9 and Luke 12:51 makes me consider God's will is for Christians to stick with the gospel as they have been given it.

>not counting Protestant

And go winnie the pooh yourself asshole

WE HAVE THIS THREAD THREE TIMES A WEEK

>>752334

>Which denomination is correct?

Probably none are 100% correct. You'll have to wait and ask Jesus Himself to get the full truth.

>>752335

>>752336

What is the orthodox standard for heaven? Catholics believe that as long as you die with no mortal sins then you'll spend some time in purgatory at worst then go heaven. In the reformed view if you die trusting that Christ died for your sins then youll go heaven. What's the orthodox view?

>>752355

>What's the orthodox view?

Everyone goes to Hell except for Jesus

>>752355

>What is the orthodox standard for heaven? Catholics believe that as long as you die with no mortal sins then you'll spend some time in purgatory at worst then go heaven. In the reformed view if you die trusting that Christ died for your sins then youll go heaven. What's the orthodox view?

Pretty much the same as Catholics tbh (there was never any real split on this issue). Although there is a difference in semantics and concepts on afterlife and original sin (but the end result is the same).

>>752357

I've heard that you guys don't believe in the distinction between mortal and venial sins. And you guys definitely don't believe in purgatory.

>>752341

Think about the context though. Paul is talking to the galatians when he tells them to follow the gospel as they've been taught it. And how they were taught it was by Paul and the other apostles relaying the word of God to them. There was no Bible written at the time, and Jesus told his disciples to "go and teach". The galatians (and everyone who heard about Jesus at that time) were taught by the disciples, among whom Peter was established as the head of the church on earth by Jesus himself. Apostolic succession is even outlined in the Bible, Peter was told to teach others as Jesus taught him, so he picked a successor to lead the church after his time on earth was up.

>>752361

It's not really a matter of believing. Just a difference or more open discussion of the process. The Church fathers had varying views on it and never made any definitive council statement on the exact nature of afterlife. But they generally all acknowledge some form of "purging". Just that it isn't necessarily a "place" so much as a trial or state. I suppose in the mind of someone going through it, it may as well feel like a place, but it would be a moment in the Lord's eyes.

A shared saint (St. Macrina/Gregory of Nyssa's sister) had a story that always stuck with me. As she lay dying and teaching her younger brother not to worry about her, she told him that life is like a man who built a house. Depending on his faith in this life (or lack thereof), it could be a simple but sturdy house, or a shaky one, prone to danger.. or maybe one filled with all kinds of worthless objects and furniture and other belongings. When we all die, it's as if the house comes crashing down on all of us. Depending on your foundations or the protection you built or the attachments or lack of detachment you had in this life, that house coming down could be very smooth or very painful. Maybe some pieces of wood or nails got lodged in your sides. Maybe all of those worthless possessions fell down and cracked your skull, and you lay in agony, trapped, unable to move, unable to think about anything but the junk in your way. And when we die, the Lord comes to pick us up – and for some, it's going to be extremely painful for him to pull them out. For those who already "built their treasures in heaven", who already lived in heaven in the HERE and NOW, then the passing of life will be seamless. The Lord will easily pick them out and embrace them immediately.

The last point is important: The Kingdom of God is at hand! It is now. The Kingdom of God is within you. Not just a hope, but a reality you partake in now.. both by denying the world here, and celebrating with the Church of all saints in the here and now. How does anyone expect to get to heaven if they aren't even in it in the here and now?

>>752367

Interesting. How about the mortal/venial sins distinction?

>>752368

>Interesting. How about the mortal/venial sins distinction?

There's no categories, but we're all in danger the same if we don't repent.

Sidenote though: St. Macrina and St. Gregory were "universalists" (or partly), and a lot more optimistic than the traditional view of either church now. But I still like her illustration. It reminds me of Jesus' parables.

>>752370

Ok, thanks orthodox anon. You're actually the first to properly answer my question. Do you have any links or articles where I can read further?

>>752373

>Ok, thanks orthodox anon. You're actually the first to properly answer my question. Do you have any links or articles where I can read further?

Not really. I'd say the Orthodox wiki, but I'm still learning myself and find things there I never heard (but there are regional traditions within one church). Maybe someone else can help.

>>752374

Still makes me wonder what the standard is. How much sin do you need to go heaven or the place of cleansing or hell?

>>752376

>Still makes me wonder what the standard is. How much sin do you need to go heaven or the place of cleansing or hell?

The standard are the Councils. You could call it the Church of the Councils, if you will (not other dogma or declarations by patriarchs/popes). If something wasn't said in the Councils, then it's up for discussion. And afterlife was one of those things that didn't go into too much detail. Like there's a significant number of Orthodox who believe in the idea of "aerial toll houses", as a sort of trial by fire/purging period, where you are tested by demons. Some would try to enforce it with the strength of a Council, but they'd be wrong. They're not in the Councils.

>>752388

But do you not fear that you might end up in hell because you different fulfill a requirement that you don't even know? I at least know the requirements but I think it's quite dangerous to be a Christian and not know.

>>752396

>But do you not fear that you might end up in hell because you different fulfill a requirement that you don't even know? I at least know the requirements but I think it's quite dangerous to be a Christian and not know.

What am I not supposed to know? We have the Scriptures, the Fathers, and the Councils. Anything else is unnecessary.. and down to more philosophical wankery tbh, more than Christianity. The West in particular (both Heathen philosophers and the church traditions, unfortunately… along with modern science) have an autistic need to build rigidly defined "systems" and models of the world (all wildly disagreeing with each other I might add.. even within the church). The unending quest for a theory of everything. Christ and his Apostles warned us of legalism, but I think it applies here too. He also warned Martha to follow Mary's example and strip down a lot of her fidgeting and worries. Follow Christ, pick up your cross, and live for the kingdom. That already in itself is enough to keep one engaged mentally and spiritually! We should find freedom in Christ and take his light burden.. Finding the correct and exhaustive "Systematic Theology" and exact nature of afterlife isn't going to help us in that (besides, most of those hawking their theological wares are just profiteers).

>>752403

>What am I not supposed to know?

Pauls says in romans 5:1

<Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do you have peace with God?

>>752403

and what is the basis of this peace?

>>752406

>Do you have peace with God?

I have peace through Jesus Christ. Not simply peace. Peace doesn't mean I carry on and go back to a life of sin that caused me and others so much pain. That's actually the opposite of peace. True peace with God renews our minds. Peace through Jesus Christ is still a burden, but by his grace, a light one.

Like the Bob Dylan song says: "You gotta serve somebody." If you're asking if I have some kind of peace that makes everything hunky dory, then no, I don't have that kind of peace. And I don't want it either. I want to follow Christ (I want all of us to).

>>752334

I spent a year researching and testing every denomination objectively with and open mind and ultimately concluded that high Lutheran was the “most correct.”

Lutheran beliefs are almost identical to Catholic and Orthodox, but the focus is better alligned with the gospel. Luther accepted church tradition and history. He accepted all of the traditions about Mary, but believed the adoration had gotten out if control. The Lutherans respect and honor the saints, but not to the point of unwarranted Pagan intercession. Lutherans believe in a purgatory but not one where prayers or money get you out. The monestaries, a rediculous Buddist practice, are discarded.

Lutheran is closest to Anglicanism, but without the rediculous Henry VIII views on divorce, and without the rediculousness of the Anglican communion and their worldly take on matters like contraception.

The other denoms to follow (Baptist/Calvanist etc) reject church history, councils, and the views of the church fathers out of malicious ignorance and self righteousness. They blaspheme the Lord’s Supper and baptism by robbing them of all spiritual merit

>>752356

he's right you know

>>752385

>Mom I posted it again.

This is the most non-argument I have seen today.

>>752475

>you can't be a Christian without bowing to Daddy Pope

Yeah you can. The Orthodox have been doing since the beginning. In fact Rome was equal to all the other Bishops until Rome got arrogant and decided to break away from Jesus' Church.

>>752334

>Catholic or Orthodox

Why not believe as the apostles did, unlike these sects do?