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For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

File: 31fc09bd4043316⋯.jpg (1.87 MB, 2400x3000, 4:5, 31fc09bd4043316cf402992598….jpg)

b93857  No.722593

We all know God exists from the Leibnizian argument, Aquinas' Five Ways, the double slit experiment, and others. This just shows that there must have been an uncaused causer obviously. How do we then make the jump from this being into what we call God? This omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent being? I've been struggling with this for quite some time now, and I could really use some help.

Pic unrelated.

e4771c  No.722608

>>722593

>the double slit experiment

What does that have to do with the other things you mentioned? I actually want to know.


b93857  No.722614


f5d8bb  No.722644

>>722614

>idealist heresy

>misrepresentation of QM

>pop science

shit video


b93857  No.722656

>>722644

Fair enough, could you answer my question, though?


08d488  No.722664

File: fd7f1f274fb4bac⋯.gif (1.84 MB, 320x400, 4:5, 1539453308947.gif)

>>722614

What's wrong with idealism?


f5d8bb  No.722669

>>722656

no single argument can prove all attributes of God, much less our Christian God, arguments only get one so far


54b188  No.722671

>>722664

>serpent

>idealism

i c wat u did


ee778c  No.722685

>>722614

I don't feel like it. Is it a rehash of Berkeley?


b93857  No.722689

>>722685

Basically particles move in a wave of potentialities which take an actual path when there is a conscious observer present, thus showing that if the universe had to come into existence, there must have been a conscious observer present.


88b66c  No.722692

>>722671

>serpent

Snakes are cute. go away.


ee778c  No.722697

>>722689

You could just have said "yes." I actually had to check what were Aquinas' five ways, and I noticed that the argument from nature is among those. So supposedly you already have a reasonable belief that there's an intelligent and unique supreme being. So what exactly are you grappling with? Whether or not YHWH would be this supreme being?


b93857  No.722710

>>722697

>So supposedly you already have a reasonable belief that there's an intelligent and unique supreme being. So what exactly are you grappling with?

My problem is that how do we get to this in the first place? How do we get to the point of there being an intelligent and unique supreme being? All we know is that there is an uncaused causer, or an unmoved mover, etc. How do we know that this being is God or a god or some supreme being?


329824  No.722714

>>722593

The following by St. Hilary of Poitiers is related to your question: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/330201.htm


f5d8bb  No.722738

>>722689

except that's not actually what QM says, at least not under the Copenhagen interpretation. An "observer" means any measuring instrument, not a conscious mind. Same for the Many Worlds interpretation. The only interpretation that teaches this is the Von Neumann-Winger Interpretation, which I agree would prove God, but literally no scientists believe in it.


08d488  No.723084

File: cad96b83063bd55⋯.jpg (415.95 KB, 1275x1755, 85:117, dd7fe8c0ede6fd256f02c8945b….jpg)

>>722671

No anon I really wasn't trying to do anything here. Please tell me


c93c38  No.723089

>>722593

We don't believe in God because of rational arguments, those arguments are useful when arguing philosophically but we don't have faith because of them.

We have faith because God revealed himself, through Moses, the Prophets and then the Incarnation.


bba205  No.723091

>the double slit experiment,

What?

>inb4 just watch the video

I'm a physicist and what they saying is absolute shit.

So you tell me how does that prove it?


892c09  No.723098

>>723089

This, more or less.


bba205  No.723103

>>723089

/thread.


d5fcdc  No.723118

File: 79210e9d320e05d⋯.png (609.93 KB, 499x492, 499:492, 613LbxwAVlL._SL500_.png)

>>722710

>uncaused causer, or an unmoved mover, etc.

Remember that what those terms denote is the metaphysical distinction between act and potency, where only God, a being who is pure act, can ultimately be the explanation for the existence of the universe given what we know about reality. This entails a being who necessarily possesses intellect and will, from the simple fact that the universe does not have to exist and that what exists in the universe must reflect its source. What a human ever means by the use of the term personal, moreover, is simply a being with intellect and free will, hence God is also personal.

These links offer a more detailed explanation, but whole books have been written on these topics. Please heed the following advice from the first link on analogy:

>Second, at least for Thomists, when attributing intellect, knowledge, etc. both to God and to us, we have to understand the relevant terms analogously rather than univocally. It’s not that God has knowledge in just the sense we do, only more of it. It’s rather that there is in God something analogous to what we call knowledge in us, even if (since He is absolutely simple, eternal, etc.) it cannot be the same thing we have.

http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2012/09/the-divine-intellect.html

https://strangenotions.com/how-god-can-know-and-cause-a-universe-of-things/


997938  No.723133

>>722738

This, there should be a required reading sticky on QM and how popsci isn’t real sci and does not prove there’s a God in any way


8e8d6d  No.723139

>>723133

This. I hate those dumbwinnie the poohs who don't even know what an operator or a state vector is to stop with those stupid memes. I hate black science man and friends for making my field a meme field.




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