/christian/ - Christian Discussion and Fellowship

>>626351

Your pick is fake and you know it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions

>>626357

Mo grafted stories about Abraham and Jesus onto the already existing pagan arab god allah, who was one of 360 arabian gods and had 3 goddess daughters.

>>626372

Sure u can show us Wikimedia link that tells about it.

https://youtu.be/r2z50DVNK1A

>>626347

Here's a quick instructional video on the subject

Christians and Muslims worship the same God idiots. Islam is rooted in Arianism and Nestorianism. Of course it's a false belief, Arius was a heretic, but there's no need to smear it with even more lies.

Bearing false witness is a sin.

>>626403

>God and Allah is the same (you)

>Christian: Jesus is God

>Muslim: Jesus was a cool guy, but not God

Ergo, Islamic moon "god" =/= God

Your leftism is showing

>>626406

>Muslim: Jesus was a cool guy, but not God

They have different belief in what God is, but essentially it's the same all powerful being, the beginning and the end.

>Your leftism is showing

epic

>>626406

This.

Also one baizuo and his dumb belief does not a theological correlation make.

>>626408

But anon, he's right. If you don't acknowledge Christ as God incarnate, you don't worship God.

>Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

If anything, you're the one bearing false witness by implying you can reach the Father without Jesus Christ.

>>626411

That doesn't mean you don't worship god it means you are not a Christian.

>>626411

>you're the one bearing false witness by implying you can reach the Father without Jesus Christ

Except I don't. Are you stupid? I'm not implying that they can reach the Father, only that they believe in the same omnibenelovent, omniscient, and omnipotent God, although they don't know about the rest of the attributes that we know and believe in.

>>626416

It's like you guys don't even know how many pagan holidays were incorporated into Christianity.

>>626417

It's like you don't even know Chef Boyardee's original name was spelt "Boiardi."

>>626377

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_pre-Islamic_Arabia#Al-l%C4%81t,_Al-%E2%80%98Uzz%C3%A1_and_Manat

>>626414

>>626415

We must honor and acknowledge Christ in order to honor the Father through worship as they are both persons of the Trinity. To deny any part of the Trinity – whether Christ, the Holy Spirit, or that God is one – means that one does not believe in God, as God has revealed Himself as the Trinity to men.

>He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

And, more clearly in 2 John,

>Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God.

Now, someone who lives his entire life in a state of ignorance regarding the Triune nature of God/the Incarnation will be judged according to natural law, but that is a rare case. Nowadays, a practicing Muslim that is aware of Christian doctrine and denies it does not worship, know, or honor God.

There's only one Abrahamic religion and that's Christianity. Judaism and Islam are pretenders to the throne. They are not the legitimate heirs of Abraham and they never will be.

>>626416

Was getting people to post David Wood videos a part of your plan?

>>626426

>>626429

>THEY WORSHIP THE MOON CUZ THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE THE GODHOOD OF JESUS

Beat it man. They worship the same God that created Adam and Eve, spoke to Abraham, took the Jews out of Egypt, and brought David to his throne. Just because they don't know and can't honour God doesn't mean that they worship the moon. Not defending Muslims or anything, but just warning you about bearing false witness.

>>626351

The symbol of Moloch is the OWL not the Bull.

>>626417

Such as?

Pfth… You larpagans and your outlandish claims are truly retarded.

>>626461

No, they think they worship God, but because they deny Christ their worship does not reach him.

>They worship the same God that created Adam and Eve

But they don't. John 1:3 says that all things were created through Christ. By denying Christ they deny the creator of Adam and Eve.

>hey Mahmot, my God is Jesus, is he your God?

>"no, infidel"

ok I guess we have a different God then

>>626417

Nope. Church just synchronized dates of celebration with fagan dates to overshadow them.Or are you one of those retards that thinks that Christmas trees makes Christmas fagan?

>>626417

doesn't matter as long as its directed to the one God.

>>626454

lol

>>626463

That is completely made up. The owl was a symbol of Lilith; Moloch was just another name for Baal, who was nearly always associated with bullocks or oxen.

>>626478

This. I hate this fake term "Abrahamic religions." There is only one. Mohammad has no connection whatsoever to Abraham, and kikes worship themselves/satan/moloch/money.

>>626461

Anon, we disagree with you and have supported our position with unambiguous bits of Scripture. You won't last very long on this board if you're going to start claiming people are committing false witness when they don't support your perspective. Besides, I have yet to see you back up your view with anything besides your own assertions.

Bu-u-u-ut muslins and christians are so alike! Why dont they get along?

>Mahomet was a child molester warlord false-prophet

>Jesus is God

Really causes one to ponder.

>>626464

Christmas – Well .. lol..

Easter -Easter comes from a pagan figure called Eastre (or Eostre)

Resurrection - The Resurrection of Assur (Egypt)

Valentines Day – IE: Cupid's Day

St. Patric's Day – Hmm that dude looks just like a 2000 year historical giant Leprechaun. Lucky clovers anyone?

>>626630

These are all Zeitgesit bullshit lies, and you should be ashamed not only for falling for them but for spreading them as well.

Ackshully It's spelled oyster, and basically you are began:-DD

>>626630

Egyptian Mythology influences

According to Egyptian myth, the god 'Horus' is said to have been born of virgin birth, have 12 disciples, walked on water, was killed and later resurrected - a fable very similar to that of Jesus Christ. (Source: Religulous (2008))

Resurrection was a commonly believed aspect of ancient Egyptian mythology with Osiris too supposedly being resurrected 3 days after death.

Greco-Roman influences

The symbolic significance of wine which is important both in Christianity and in Greek mythology surrounding Dionysus (Bacchus in Roman myth). Dionysus too was ripped to pieces before being put back together (or resurrected) by his grandmother Rhea. Dionysus also created wine (like Jesus did, from water). In fact, the Dionysian cult was perhaps a major monotheistic cult that could have evolved into the monotheism of the Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism and Islam). There are also similarities between Mithras' life and Jesus Christ's life and Mithraism in Christianity.

The flood myth - every culture and every god pre-Christianity everywhere had this story.

And then, there is the Torah, the work of the Jews, whom, Christian's take for their own religion.

>>626630

Easter…that's the English name.

>>626655

Isn't Jesus the son of God, I mean, I get the trinity thing but you seem to forget the old-man?

>>626652

that's more of a calendar issue than a date issue.

whatever it is, it's yet another division in the monothestic Abramhamic religion that is as fractured from it's stem going backwards into history like the roots of a tree and springs into the distance past like branches of a tree. There is no end to it.

>>626652

>"I Can't Read: The Post"

Horus did not have 12 disciples.

His mother was not a virgin.

There is no permanent resurrection story of Horus. READ THE POST.

>>626663

No, no, you're completely misunderstanding it. We agree completely on the date of December 25th, it's just that the traditional Orthodox calendar runs late because it uses the Julian calendar – and even then, much of the Orthodox church uses the Gregorian (new) calendar nowadays anyways. Arguing that it's any sort of division is absurd because it's entirely superficial.

>>626630

>-Easter comes from

Passover

>Assur (Egypt)

That's Assyria.

>Hmm that dude looks just like a

English peasant enslaved by irish pirates.

>>626472

>their worship does not reach him

That's not the issue here. Reaching or not reaching, it's directed to that particular God.

>>626606

No, all your evidence supports the fact that muslims don't understand God, not that they worship the different God. And I don't think that all muslims deny the Son, denial takes full awareness of the truth. Even if the fathers of Islam denied Christ, doesn't mean that all their followers know what they're doing. I don't want to assume that I know what other people are thinking.

>>626669

I hope so too.

It's late here, good night.

>>626669

btw, nice digits

>>626676

>And I don't think that all muslims deny the Son, denial takes full awareness of the truth. Even if the fathers of Islam denied Christ, doesn't mean that all their followers know what they're doing. I don't want to assume that I know what other people are thinking.

This is actually a fair point and I agree with you. We have to trust in God's mercy on those in Islamic parts of the world that will never have the opportunity to become Christian in their lives.

>>626652

>>626652

>Crucified 5000 years ago

>El-Azar-us

>Anup The Baptizer

this is a troll image right?

>>626776

God as King, monotheism, literally is passed down from Pharaohs to Jewish tradition, into Christianity and Islam.

Did you think the Jews lived in captivity for thousands of years without to a heavy extent adopting their culture and thought?

>>626994

>God as King, monotheism, literally is passed down from Pharaohs to Jewish tradition, into Christianity and Islam.

>thousands of years

>reddit spacing

You're making it too obvious.

>>626994

we wuz kangs

>>627021

>>627043

Are you a Christian troll? Or unable to refute the facts in any other way and therefore simply going to the lowest level of human nature possible?

>>626994

Read your Bible. It comes from a shared cultural memory of the prophecy given in Genesis 3:15.

The Messiah would be born of the "seed" of a woman. The Messiah would successfully defeat Satan. The Messiah would suffer when redeeming man to God.

Knowing this prophecy, many imposter religions set up their own messiahs, like Pharaoh, or Nimrod of Babel.

>>627090

Torah says Jews are the chosen people.

Bible says Jesus is the Son of God.

Koran says Mohamed is the final prophet.

Every single religion every makes similar claims, a Christian asking me to read the bible for proof of Christian's claims is no stronger than a Muslim asking me to read the Koran to be told that Jesus was just a good guy.

However, what I have actually read is a lot of myths from ancient Asia, Egypt, Mesopotamia and Greece that predate Christianity and attribute all of the miracles and splendor found in the Bible to their own traditions and and Gods and just going by chronology alone, they have the leg up for legitimacy if you believed that (a) any of it ever happened and (b) it was a divine act. (As opposed to say allegory).

>>627175

So you won't read it. Lazy.

>>627078

I love the wrap up starting 4:19, it sums up so many atheists/PaganLARPers

>>627175

>However, what I have actually read is a lot of myths from ancient Asia, Egypt, Mesopotamia and Greece that predate Christianity and attribute all of the miracles and splendor found in the Bible to their own traditions and and Gods and just going by chronology alone

Please give examples and cite exact ancient texts that contain them. I assume one of them is going to be the ebin Gilgamesh meme.

>>627189

go back into this thread I gave a decent amount of examples.

creation of the "world"

floods

heaven/hell

resurrection

chosen people

inheritors of the Earth

all stories from earlier times, the bible has no "revelations" (pun totally intended)

>>627179

I have read a great deal, just not front to back, nor will I ever, bearing I don't end up in jail with 10 years to kill.

>>627250

What makes you think that the other texts didn't copy the story from the true narrative? And what sort of stubborn person finds countless accounts of a global flood and comes to the conclusion that it didn't happen?

>>627263

Because those texts are older. There is no debate on this point. Therefore they didn't copy from the Bible.

I didn't say the global flood didn't happen. I would only say that it wasn't an act of God, especially a god that was not revealed until after that act occurred.

>>626351

Love the link

>Their worshiped slightly differently

>Christianity is right! So Islam must be wrong!

Problem averted

>>627381

Video about Islam and Mormons:

A Latter Day Re-Gift

>>626347

>Islam is not subversive state propaganda and pagan

ironic since islamic prayers are aimed at a pagan stone in saudi arabia, and not God, who is everywhere in all directions and above all directions. Goofy.

>>626547

>only one

tries to discredit Islam,

forgets about the Jews.

>fails to realize Abraham is cited 69 times in the Koran

wew lad

>>627660

forgive me, you made a solid attempt (3/10) to discredit Jews, but it's just like your opinion man.

You'd be hard pressed to find ten people with the same idea of God. You're comparing apples and potatoes. "But hey, they both need sun so their like the same thing, right?"

>>627660

Jesus is also cited, saying he and his mother are not deities while in the cradle.

Do you know what a fanfic is?

Also, as anon said, there is nothing Abrahamic about jews, they are pharisees, they spit on the God of Abraham.

>I have questions about the differences between them and what happend to them. Christians and Muslims pray the same god.

Incorrect. Of course, the Absolute is One, but beyond this most basic of metaphysical premises there is nothing in common between the Christian God and the Islamic God.

>From my point of view when Christianity became the religion of Rome, first of all, it was an instrument of propaganda and supranational intelligence services of ancient times and faith aspects became manipulation instruments,

This is a very serious claim, and it demands evidence. Unfortunately for you the historical record does not support this outlandish conspiracy theory. The Church Fathers, while indeed antipagan, worked tirelessly to comprehend the pagan worldview and especially the pagan philosophers, hence the works of Aristotle, Plato and others being preserved by devout churchmen, as well as that of pagan artists, playwrights and poets. Christianity, by its interest in nonviolence, has at its best always sought to comprehend and synthesise, not manipulate and destroy.

>and it turns to paganism with a cult of saints.

Incorrect. Saints are brothers and sisters in Christ who are asked for help in exactly the same way we ask our living friends for help. The difference is that saints are in Heaven, so they have a more intense mode of praying to God for us.

>Islam was answer that clean all those things.

Incorrect. Islam began with the delusions of an ashamed epileptic who, instead of seeking healing, sought power by interpreting his condition as prophethood. Muhammad was deeply ignorant of both Christianity and Judaism, hence his claim to "complete" or "correct" those traditions is utterly nonsensical and demonstrates his lack of wisdom.

>But lately, it became fiction when people it's about traditions and doesn't understand what it, orthodox Islamists call them hypocrites and they close to the truth.

The Qur'an has been the same for at least over a millennium, so it cannot "become" something it was not before. The only things which have changed in recent history are interpretive tradition and geopolitics.

>>627660

>forgets about the Jews.

<kikes worship themselves/satan/moloch/money

>Abrahamic religion

Lousy meme. Christianity is of Christ, not of Abraham. The Law of Moses was swallowed up in Christ's Atonement, and the Higher Laws were set forth for the Juden to follow (who rejected it) and then the Gentile.

I love all the ethnocentrism in the last few posts.

cult of saints and martyrs always was part of christian faith and life of church

>orthodox islamists

>Islam was answer that clean all those things

>clean

Islam is based full on old arab pogan cults

what is Mecca, what is alKaaba?

its not "islamic" at all.

>>630540

kek, it's real

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah_the_Best_Deceiver

I really need to read the Quran once, to get to the depth of these Satan worshippers. Man, I hate muslims so much.

>>630816

There was another battle also in Geth, in which there was a man of great stature, whose fingers and toes were four and twenty, six on each hand and foot: who also was born of the stock of Rapha. (1 Chronicles 20:6 DRA)

>>630816

>>630818

>>630830

Maybe if you'd stop watching porn, you wouldn't know from where that image originated. Just sayin'.

>>630833

Pretty sure any adult male would realize what that was, even if he'd never watched a moment of porn in his life lol.

>>630836

>>630840

>n-no no anon, everyone is totally complicit in my degeracy

All I see is some woman making a goofy face. Do you assume women can only make goofy faces if she's having sex? That's on you and has nothing to do with me.

>>630842

lol sure sure.

>>630847

>same God

Not really. If you take the Koran as true, then you must take the bible for false. If you take the bible for false, you take the word of God for false. If you take the word of God for false, then he isn't really God. Thus, not the same God because one must be truthful, and one must be false.

>>626347

>"Christians and Muslims pray the same god."

Really?

What is one of the titles of "allah" in Sura 3:54 in Arabic?

"Al Makr"?

What does "Al Makr" mean?

The "best of deceivers"?

What is one of the titles of "allah" in Sura 59:23 in Arabic?

"Al Mutakabbir"?

What does "Al Mutakabbir" mean?

"The most proud one?"

What does the Bible say concerning the "most proud" in Jeremiah chapter 50?

What does the Bible say concerning the one who deceives the whole world in Revelation chapter 12?

>>630857

If you're talking about it purely in translation then yes, (though that wasn't the implication I got) but once again, they can't logically be the same deity.

>>630854

> Abrahamic religions

Honestly, I think Jews are the sole abrahamic religion, for the sole reason that Muslims follow Mohammed and Christians follow Christ, both of which have scriptures that differ from the Old Testament, while the jewish scriptures are theoretically built around the Old Testament. Pretty sure "Abrahamic religions" are just a meme to tie them together, like Judeo-Christianity garbage from politicians. Also, you can just link to wikipedia, you don't need to copy-paste.

>>630856

So you're saying that even though God can do anything, he can't be a deceiver? Why not?

O LORD, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived: thou art stronger than I, and hast prevailed: I am in derision daily, every one mocketh me. Jeremiah 20:7

>>630861

Almost everything that was stripped from the Torah, were Rabbinical teachings. In fact I think that's one of the main reasons Judaism has so many corrupt tendencies where Christianity as a whole doesn't. The only messenger of God who was truly without sin, was Jesus Christ. Rabbis, while messengers were, but men, and thus were with sin, which means their teachings could be corrupted.

You see this same problem with Islam. It keeps the Rabbinical system.

>>630871

Why for him being true to the word of God?

>>630870

Not sure how that one happened. >>630860

>>627381

From all the [wasted] time I spent in digging into Islam here is what I concluded:

Islam was started around 691 by a man named Abd Al-Malik, who was Caliph of the Umayyad Empire. This man is responsible for the stamped "shahadah" on their coins as well as the construction of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem.

The original Kabbah (cube-shaped temple) for the Muslims was located in Petra. The direction-of-prayer in the oldest mosques has been found to face Petra.

The Quran (of which there are over 35 different versions in Arabic throughout history) was not written by Muhammad but was developed later.

The biography of Muhammad is a work of fiction that was developed over a period of 200 years after Muhammad's death.

Muhammad was not a prophet but was the one who started the expansion of the first Arab empire.

There has not been found in any of the earliest Caliph protocols any reference to "Muhammad", "Islam", "Muslim", or "Mecca".

The source of the info for my conclusion is Jay Smith, who has done extensive research on Islam's history.

>>630849

Maybe you should read the bible.

>Islamic moon =/= God

K.

Terrific arguments there xD

>>630850

>>630870

There is a gap between Christianity and Islam that needs to be bridged. Statements like "Allah is not God" are just moronic and do nothing but debase any kind of decent relations. Pretty low level of discourse there tbqhwy, Jimmy.

>>630883

I don't know what you want me to tell you. The bible is the word of God. Anyone believes otherwise, is not of God. Only through Christ may one enter the kingdom of God. Thus, while we don't have to be at war with Islam, that doesn't change the fact that it's a false gospel.

>>630885

I don't know why that (you)'d the wrong person…>>630889

,but ultimately if speaking the true word causes problems, then so be it. Christ died because he refused to not speak the true word.

>>630883

>"not accepting t.scientists conclusions about who wrote the bible."

The Quran is not the Bible.

>>630895

>by this church father (if it means anything to you).

Well I'm not Catholic, so not a great deal, but I didn't say anything about there being no truths in other faiths, but that still doesn't change the fact that those who have faith in Christ, must understand that the true word, is that which is in the bible. You can have respect, and admiration for other ways, but that doesn't change the fact that they're not the one true way.

>>630870

Herp de derp. Im offended on behalf of Arabic Christians that you would confuse God with the Arabic Islamic moon demon.

Obviously in arabic God = Allah thats the language. But no one is critiquing the Arabic language. We are destroying the meme that Islamic Moon demon = Christian God.

Islam =/= Christianity

>>630871

There can be no peace when cuckolds like you allow rapists and murders to come in based on your heretical views of tolerance.

If you don't worship the Trinity, then you don't worship the same God as Christians.

>>630842

>>630932

Honestly, even if you’d never deliberately sought out pornography in your life (which is unlikely for anyone here), if you browsed /pol/ during the time when Blacked porn was getting spammed there, you’d be aware of the origins of that reaction image.

>>630938

This.

Anyone claiming that the Christian God is the same as the Islamic God must explain why the two religious systems are utterly and irreconcilably different. If there is truly no real difference, as our tolerance-idol-worshiping friends suggest, then we can only account for the differences as cultural or racial, which is to say that neither religious system makes universal claims nor is rooted in anything that exists in objective reality. This is clearly false.

I'm all for ecumenicism – I'm sure most people here are. However, the Islamic claims about Christ directly and explicitly contradict the Christian claims about Him. We can play all buddy-buddy for a short while, of course, but at the end of the day one of us is correct and the other incorrect – and we know which is which.

>>631042

The two systems are not irreconcilably different; it follows logically that Christ reigns because he was prophesied – which cannot be said for Muhammad.

>631050

First, this is an hermeneutical question.

If it was 100% clear that typological lecture of the old testament is the right one, rabbinical Judaism would have not existed. Whereas at the same time Jesus divinity might be negated he still is a vector of the logos (which is the meaning of prophet in Islam).

At the same time Judaism as shown much more aggressive against the figure figure of God's son and his mother. Yet in Islam Mary is considered as the most holy women who as never walk on earth.

It is logical when you consider God only from the perspective of his essence to negate a man's divinity since you don't consider him as trine.

TL; Dr : I'm not saying their perspective is the best but it is still a metaphysical option which is good enough to negate the idea there are satanic .

>>631107 meant for :

>>631050

>>631107

>Yet in Islam Mary is considered as the most holy women who as never walk on earth

The mother of the believers is not Mary, but Aisha, the kid the pedophile warlord Muhammed married when she was 6 and had sex with when she was 9.

Mary is just there because she appears in Muhammed's terrible fanfic, thinking she was part of the Trinity and Moses' sister.

>>631122

Mary is the only woman mentioned in Qur'an and it shows her sinless and perfect.

Aisha was just one of Muhammad's wives. He had like … 12 of them? I don't remember.

>>631136

she is called the mother of the believers in quran and in the hadiths she is called his favorite wives. around 50% of the sunni hadiths have aisha as a narrator. mary like jesus are just nobodies in islam, just lipservice is paid for them to try and get more people to join their cult.

>>630615

>cult of saints and martyrs always was part of christian faith and life of church

Well that's pure paganism

The rites of Christianity are taken from Mithraism and Roman cults.

>>631160

Uh, I wouldn't call them nobodies. Mary has an entire chapter of Qur'an exclusively about her and Jesus is the "anointed one" and "promised messiah".

Not exactly nobodies and it's way more than lip service. If you're gonna throw shade, you might not want to be completely ignorant.

>>631167

They are nobodies. First of all you're an idiot if you think that the Surah Mariam is exclusively about her LOL. Is surah al bakra (the cow) is all about a Cow? The Quran is the most disjointed book in the world. Verses one after the other have nothing to do with each other.

>. If you're gonna throw shade, you might not want to be completely ignorant.

You're the one that's completey ignorant you idiot. To this day muslim scholars don't know why they called him the Messiah. They just copied a name because that's what he was known as. They think oh it's because he came out of his womb and he had oil on his head, or that he used to put oil on people to cure them. You really don't know jack shit about islam if you think that it's anything other than just pure lip service. All Isa (supposedly Jesus) is there is only to show up and say yes I never told people to worship me (or my mother LOL). In hadiths its said "Oh ISA, believe in Mohammed). Isa is only there to prove mohammed right, nothing else.

Surah 19:97

So, [O Muhammad], We have only made Qur'an easy in the Arabic language that you may give good tidings thereby to the righteous and warn thereby a hostile people.

This is about mary? It's from Surah 19 (mariam)

Or this

[His father] said, "Have you no desire for my gods, O Abraham? If you do not desist, I will surely stone you, so avoid me a prolonged time."

Or etc etc it goes onto about abraham and ishmael and all sorts of garbage. Seriously educate yourself more before you speak about something you have no idea about lol.

>>631167

>"anointed one" and "promised messiah".

And you also seem to think there are two different terms like this. The only term used is Al Masih which just means the Messiah, not like there are two different terms. The Quran uses the term with no explanation of what it means or how it is significant at all. It's pure idiotic copying with no idea. The quran also keeps talking about children of israel (bani israil) but never once mentions who is Israel, no one ever says Jacob is Israel, likely cause they have no clue about this or what israel means or anything.

>>631168

>>631169

Are you capable of making an argument without resorting to childish name-calling? You sound like a child and I don't debate children.

>>631172

t. Mohammedan

>>631174

Well, that answers that question. At least you're honest.

>>631168

Hahahaha. Not at all… In Islamic theology Christ will be returning in the end of times to slay the Dajjal (the demon). He is also considered as the "seal of holiness". He is called messiah because he is the "prophet" waited by the Hebrews.

You talk about Muslim scholars. Wich ones ? Wich school ?

Mary and Jesus appear more in the Koran than the prophet's family.

>>631182

I'm calling you a Mohammedan you dunce

>>631234

The Dajjal is not (the demon) Dajjal just means false. The full name is Al-Masih ad-Dajjal, the false Messiah. Mohammed knew that Christians were expecting Jesus to come back so he just shoe horned that (in hadiths not in the Quran) saying he will be back, break the cross, kill the pig and remove jizya.

The real "coming messiah" for the Muslims is the Mahdi, who with Jesus is supposedly supposed to kill the anti christ. However the Madhi will lead the prayer and Jesus will follow him. All jesus is in Islam is to just to validate Mohammed, nothing else. Oh he heard Jesus is coming back? Yes he's coming back, but he will just validate me, tell all you idiot christians you are wrong and break the cross. That's all there is to Jesus in Islam. The only reason he appears is just to say "Yeah mohammed is right". In the Quran, "Allah" just says did you tell people to worship you? and Jesus says nooo i didn't.

He is never considered the seal of holiness as far as I know thats total BS unless you have references for that.

>the prophet

You a Mohammedan calling him a prophet?

> He is called messiah because he is the "prophet" waited by the Hebrews.

Again wrong, they don't say why he is called Messiah at all. It's just a stolen term, mohammed didn't know shit about what he was copying.

http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=118919

>The word Messiah in the Quran refers to ‘Eesa (Jesus) may Allaah exalt his mention and the scholars may Allaah have mercy upon them stated many reasons for him being named as the Messiah. It was said that he was named the Messiah because his feet were flat (the arch of which is flattened so that the entire sole rests upon the ground), and it was also said that he was named so because he came out of his mother’s womb anointed with oil. It was also said that he was named the Messiah because whenever he wipes over a person with disability, the person becomes cured. And it was said that the Messiah means As-Siddeeq (the truthful one).

>>631234

Mohammed was an orphan, mother probably had an affair (since he is claimed that his father died 4 years before he was born) and hated his family, said they are definitely in Hell. He had serious daddy issues and that's why he hated Jews and Christians calling God as their Father and made the verse in the Quran mocking them.

All Jesus or Mary shows up in the Quran is simply just to say don't worship Jesus that's it there's literally nothing else. Mohammed just wanted to be a prophet like all other prophets and wanted to be a prophet for the arabs and would just say whatever to get people to join him. He would say yeah I believe the Torah, even though he would say it's corrupted afterwards (even though he swore an oath on the corrupt torah), was desperate to get the Jews to accept him, would just say oh yeah Jesus he was a muslim he never said to worship him etc… That's literally all they show up for.

>>631248

> the prophet

Nah, it's just because everybody sees to who it refers.

>>631251

>>631248

>seal of holiness / Jesus is here so we can put him aside better.

Here is the problem, you speak of Islam like if there is only one theological school.

Ibn Arabi is your man. Islamic "theology" is more a "prophetology". And there is a very important category in Islamic theology : the distinction between exoterism and esoterism.

And before you say Sufism, is a minor phenomenon, it is true today, but it wasn't by the past, and it's probably the oldest Islamic "school".

>Mohammad hating his family blablabla

Go read the Sîra, seriously.

>>631278

Hahah you have no idea what you are talking about. The Sira is only made up of Hadith anyways. You're seriously a fucking mohammedan. You can't reply to any poitns by the way LOL. now begone and educate yourself you idiot.

>>631654

So, you say the prophet hates his family basing yourself on Islamic sources I guess, otherwise I'm not sure on what you base what you say, since all of the sources we have of his life, are from Islamic legacy.

And yet, those same sources, compiled in the Sira do not valid your posture.

So you are just in a plain gratuitous affirmation, and when your lack of knowledge in Islamic theology becomes patent you start spitting some "muh mohammedan" crap.

All hadiths are not recognized by muslims. And the one recognized are not recognized in the same theological schools. The Islam you seem to hate so much, is modern Islam, witch is built on the same "sola scriptura" approach as the protestants. Why ? Because after colonization (mainly British) they thought they we're idiots, using metaphysics and mystic theology witch are not in the scriptures, and that they should be rationalists like the english.

And if you ever want to truly educate yourself, you really should try to read traditional Islamic theologians.

But, I think you probably are a protestant or an evangelic christian, so it probably means nothing to you, and that's why your only sources are scriptures and not their comments (witch play a central role in their religion, at least before the last century), because you totally lack the idea of tradition.

Now, the point is not about saying that Islam is the truest religion of all. Yet refusing to see the Logos spermatikos where it is, is a proof of ignorance and a total lack of metaphysical sense.

>>631684

I'm talking about Sahih Hadith you retard. And I'm Catholic. And I'm talking about their scholars recognized by Sunni Schools, Ibn Abbas, Jalalayn (two Jalals), Ibn Kathir etc. You're just a mohammedan apologist.

>because you totally lack the idea of tradition.

Lol i'm a Cat you idiot.

Furthermore you're the idiot who's been sold a lie about mohammedan "theology". You really don't know anything. The earliest Sirah by ibn ishaq they dont' consider it all to be authentic? Why? Firstly because the Satanic verses episode is clearly written in there. So it's corrupted for them. You clearly have very little understanding of Islam at all. I encourage you to check out this channel,

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOllN2W9yT4ZYaSgTkqzhhg/videos

if you really want to know more. You basically haven't responded to any other points and you really have shown over and over again that you have no idea what you are talking about.

https://islamqa.info/en/47170

>Muslim (203) narrated from Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that a man said: “O Messenger of Allaah, where is my father?” He said: “In Hell.” When he turned away he called him back and said: “My father and your father are in Hell.”

https://sunnah.com/abudawud/42/123

Grade : Sahih (Al-Albani)

Graded Sahih

So just shut up and learn more, you are exposing yourself as full of shit lol.

>Muhammad seduced the people by promises of carnal pleasure to which the concupiscence of the flesh goads us. His teaching also contained precepts that were in conformity with his promises, and he gave free rein to carnal pleasure. In all this, as is not unexpected, he was obeyed by carnal men. As for proofs of the truth of his doctrine, he brought forward only such as could be grasped by the natural ability of anyone with a very modest wisdom. Indeed, the truths that he taught he mingled with many fables and with doctrines of the greatest falsity. He did not bring forth any signs produced in a supernatural way, which alone fittingly gives witness to divine inspiration; for a visible action that can be only divine reveals an invisibly inspired teacher of truth. On the contrary, Muhammad said that he was sent in the power of his arms—which are signs not lacking even to robbers and tyrants. What is more, no wise men, men trained in things divine and human, believed in him from the beginning, Those who believed in him were brutal men and desert wanderers, utterly ignorant of all divine teaching, through whose numbers Muhammad forced others to become his followers by the violence of his arms. Nor do divine pronouncements on the part of preceding prophets offer him any witness. On the contrary, he perverts almost all the testimonies of the Old and New Testaments by making them into fabrications of his own, as can be seen by anyone who examines his law. It was, therefore, a shrewd decision on his part to forbid his followers to read the Old and New Testaments, lest these books convict him of falsity. It is thus clear that those who place any faith in his words believe foolishly.

t. Saint Thomas Aquinas

>>630863

>So you're saying that even though God can do anything, he can't be a deceiver? Why not?

Because He IS truth

He cannot lie because that would be oxymoronic.