/asatru/ - Asatru / Heathenry / Paganism

what are trolls then, retard?

what is thor then, retard?

fuck off jew shill

>>11004

What are trolls? They're evil spirits like demons?

And is Thor the only thing to ward them off?

Has anyone had experience with that? Or is an example written down somewhere?

>>10995

There are spirits mischievous by nature.

But they aren't some dark mysterious inherently evil force.

>>11017

But Asatru does recognize that there are purely evil forces in the world, right? I mean, there's a lot of sick people out there…

>>11045

yes, but the thing you need to understand is old pagan religions (and especially germanic paganism) did not have the same concept of good and evil as there is in say, Christianity or Manicheanism.

there still is a duality, and a division between spirits you should worship and spirits you shouldnt, but its more defined by order versus chaos than good and evil. the trolls, loki, the iron-wood ogres, none of them are really pure evil. but they shit up the world and cause chaos, so the gods dont care, they purge them anyways.

a way to think of it, paganism is based on observation of nature right? in nature, a bear doesnt eat its prey because the prey is evil, or vice versa. the bear does what it needs to survive and maintain order in its life. likewise, a fly that causes disease to a deer and lays eggs in its rotting flesh, spelling its doom, isnt evil or has malice towards the deer. it does what it can to survive and maintain order within its life.

this translates well for us too, because are niggers truly evil? they just want whats best for their own right?

but that doesnt matter. they are agents of chaos, and must be destroyed for our own survival. end of story. no room for morality or pity or equality in nature, only harsh fact.

I talked with a friend that is a medium last night.

She is Russian, so she grew up Orthodox as expected. But now she's into chakras and runes, etc.

She told me about how she has been getting into astral projection lately and how she's encountered some spirits that don't appear to be human to her. She said that they suck the energy out of her. Based on that >>11047 seems legit.

But she also told a story about how there was a creature with yellow eyes that looked like gollum with horns and hooves sitting on her bed. Even though she isn't just a Christian, she did a simple Jesus/God prayer and it went away.

Based upon that last anecdote, I'm thinking that Christianity might not be the only way, but maybe it is a truly valid way for people to live. Maybe Jesus did know about these other astral planes and he maybe he does have power over them.

>>10995

Well ancient pagans used to make offerings and sacrifices to appease land wights. There is also similar practices in Shintoism where to "exorcise" a "demon" you would leave them offerings to appease them.

Demons could just be mischievous land wights or maybe trolls. And if Troll what says there was not a ritual invoking Thor to banish them? Maybe it is just lost knowledge.

>>11213

>Maybe it is just lost knowledge.

In which case our only hope would be religions/knowledge that has fully survived to this day (not reconstructed religions with gaps)

>>11214

Except all religions have gaps and are "reconstructed" periodically.

>>11220

>Instead of saying"The Power of Christ compels you" just say "The Hammer of Thor Banishes you" :P

Do we even know that Thor banished evil spirits? Do we know that he cares to even do so, or that he can be summoned by the will of some random guy?

>>11216

>Except all religions have gaps and are "reconstructed" periodically.

Only when knowledge is lost or forgotten, i.e. civilizations crumbling.

How do both of you guys feel about borrowing from Hinduism? It seems like a somewhat close relative to Asatru

>>11235

>thinking you can summon gods to help you

>even wanting to do that

Please, ek trui a matt minn ok megin.

>>11236

>"The Hammer of Thor Banishes you" :P

What else would saying this do than summon a god?

>>11235

My last sentence was in jest. But you missed my point entirely it is less about the words being said and more about a state of mind.

Do you really think that people actually "summon" Jesus every time there is an exorcism? Or that Jesus hears all when you pray to him?

Weak things like demons fear strength.

Be stronger in spirit than the unclean entities.

>>11242

This^

>>11237

Also invoking is not the same as summoning. Invoking is drawing strength or inspiration from a god whereas summoning is trying to make that god present themselves to you. Invoke the power of Thor (since he is the protector of mankind and trolls and giants get rekt by him often) and use that strength to banish "Demons".

>>11245

Are trolls the same thing as demons then?

When I read the myths it's difficult to imagine the correct things. You know trolls and giants kind of mean different things than they originally did, for example.

>>11242

>Be stronger in spirit than the unclean entities.

How do you become stronger in spirit? I know how to do it in Christianity, but there is no instruction / writing on this topic for asatru…

>>11235

>Only when knowledge is lost or forgotten, i.e. civilizations crumbling.

Knowledge is constantly lost and forgotten. All human organization is like the ship of Theseus, being replaced plank by plank until the originals are all gone, and then the ones that replaced those are all gone, and then the entire floor plan of the ship starts to change because each generation of replacement planks is slightly longer or shorter than the ones they replaced.

>>11250

No, they are not the same. Trolls at least have some spiritual purity to themselves, 'demons' do not.

Take the unnatural parasite YHWH for example, the entity that compels the Abrahamists. I would say the traditional trolls of Europe are far preferable to that thing.

Plus if anything's a 'demon', the damage YHWH has wrought on Europe sure earns it that title.

>>11251

Then you don't know very much. True European strength is in the blood and soil of your ancestors - you inherit that strength when you become worthy of carrying their legacy.

>>11258

>Trolls at least have some spiritual purity to themselves, 'demons' do not.

>Take the unnatural parasite YHWH for example, the entity that compels the Abrahamists. I would say the traditional trolls of Europe are far preferable to that thing.

I'm new, so can you explain a bit of what you mean? Are you referring to the different natures of YHWH or something?

>Then you don't know very much. True European strength is in the blood and soil of your ancestors - you inherit that strength when you become worthy of carrying their legacy.

You're right, I don't know much. But this makes it sound like you're in a movie or something. You must complete a quest and earn the favor of your ancestors. Then you will be spiritually powerful? I don't get it…

>>11235

>Do we even know that Thor banished evil spirits?

Yes you fucking dumb it's been recorded multiple times in Scandinavian folklore and it's the basis of his mythos. Trolls and ogres are I'll meaning spirits, and thor uses drums and thunder to scare them off

One of his titles in Sweden was the drumbeater and drums and bells have always been seen as having a purging effect that frightens demons in nordic lands, do the math

>>11261

No, YHWH is complete evil.

And this is no joke, I'm not telling you to fulfill some stupid RPG, I'm saying you must earn your family name. This whole board is basically an instruction on how to honor your ancestors - lurk more.

>>11266

>This whole board is basically an instruction on how to honor your ancestors - lurk more.

The instruction is bad then. How the hell does "earning your family name" give you power over wild/evil spirits?

This religion is half baked. Who do I have to pay to explain a coherent asatru worldview?

The scholarly authors laugh when people suggest that you can reconstruct the ancient religion with any real accuracy and the asatru authors don't agree on most of what they reconstruct.

>>11267

Go here:

https://mega.nz/#F!fIchVA7Y!owKwAgGKq9pgXrbVOnkeag

Click on 8chan Asatru PDF collection.

Click on Beginners Start Here (Essential Reading)

Click on Germanic-Scandinavian-Anglo-Saxon Heathenry for Beginners

Click on Lore of the Minor Deities

Click on Elves Wights and Trolls

Read the .pdf within for the answers you seek.

Also feel free to check out the rest of the pdfs for more answers.

Here's the thread:

>>9731

>>11269

We should start banning retarded christians who attack without having even "read the sticky"

>>11269

>>11271

I've read all of Bil Linzie, Norse Myths, Gods and Myths of Northern Europe, Elves Wights Trolls, Rudiments of Runelore, Collin Cleary's books, Half of Alain de Benoist's book in the sticky, The Love of Fate, and other long blog posts criticizing Christianity and supporting Asatru.

I've been lurking for approximately 6 months and I am telling you that I still haven't been explained a coherent worldview for modern asatru that holds up to scrutiny.

And I've given a lot of slack because I *really* want to believe that it's the right path. But it seems as soon as I start asking "why", people get defensive and call you a "fucking retard".

You can chide Christianity all you want, but at least they have answers to questions.

>>11273

So you want an official Asatru doctrine? The flaw does not lie in Asatru that you need everything spelled out for you.

Do research and draw your own conclusions, thrall. There are loads of books out there on the subject. You just like being told what to do that is your problem. You want a "Ten Commandments" to tell you not to masturbate or be a giant queer.

>>10995

Honest question, Have any of you ever actually seen a ghost or a demon? I bet the answer is no because neither are real.

>>10995

>Do you believe in evil spirits

No, there's no such thing as evil spirits in Asatru.

Most of the paranormal things can be beaten with nothing but muscle or smarts.

You got troll problems, nothing a sword can't fix (I assume a gun will do the same).

Giants bothering you just out smart them.

Elves in your basement, tell them they outstayed their welcome and you're no longer required to give them hospitality.

Ghost in your attic, stop being a grave robber you faggot.

The only things you should need magic and ritual for are nature spirits, fair folk or to counter other magic.

>>11212

>But now she's into chakras

So she's some sort of wiccan?

Smells like a attention whore.

>how there was a creature with yellow eyes that looked like gollum with horns and hooves sitting on her bed.

In case she's not completely attention whore wiccan, just bury some horseshoes under the window, and other entrances and hang one inside the chimney if you have one. Fair folk are bad news but they are easy to deal with.

>>11273

>I've read all of Bil Linzie, Norse Myths, Gods and Myths of Northern Europe, Elves Wights Trolls, Rudiments of Runelore, Collin Cleary's books, Half of Alain de Benoist's book in the sticky, The Love of Fate, and other long blog posts criticizing Christianity and supporting Asatru.

>I've been lurking for approximately 6 months and I am telling you that I still haven't been explained a coherent worldview for modern asatru that holds up to scrutiny.

>I've read all of Bil Linzie

>I still haven't been explained a coherent worldview for modern asatru that holds up to scrutiny.

Annnnnnnd my bullshit detector just went haywire. All the other books you mentioned and lurking for 6 months is bad enough in terms of exaggeration, but Bill Linzie by himself oughtta be able to give you a rock solid Heathen Worldview 101 grounding.

You just went full retard. Combined with taking a second look at the OP post, I just can't take you seriously anymore.

>>11276

I haven't myself. Anyone else?

I've met two mediums in my life, though. It's difficult to tell if they are crazy or not. I'm leaning towards not crazy because I'm not a materialist.

>because neither are real

So you're a euphoric asatru?

>>11279

Bil Linzie starts off alright, but gets into heavy philosophy that just doesn't make sense. Either that or he's just a bad writer. I did enjoy Germanic Spirituality, but that was basically a critique of modern asatru, which I'm doing right now as well.

Norse Myths just tells the myths without any context. Cool stories, though.

Gods and Myths of Northern Europe, as mentioned earlier, writes with the perspective that reconstructing the ancient religion is a laughable impossibility.

Elves Wights Trolls you'd think would explain what I'm asking about, yet somehow skips over anything of substance at all. It's a shitty ebook that gives approximately 2 anecdotes from Sagas for each critter mentioned. Not to mention that it fully admits that it is UNCLEAR what the difference even is between elves and other things.

Rudiments of Runelore is a good level-headed intro to runes. I like it, but obviously not applicable to really understanding a worldview or relevant to this thread.

Collin Cleary and de Benoist are both great, but definitely don't inspire confidence that a reconstruction of this religion will be possible. Cleary is more hopeful / determined, but it still leaves you feeling like "eh, maybe hinduism is easier and better". Yes, I know Cleary seems pretty folkish though.

>>11308

I'll give you the Norse Myths, Rudiments of Runelore and maybe even Cleary and Benoist..

Your analysis of the three others sounds fishy to me.

I remember Germanic Spirituality laying out the groundwork of a worldview, and going far beyond just a mere critique of modern Asatru. And "heavy philosophy that just doesn't make sense" sounds lazy to me.

I remember Gods and Myths mentioning Davidson's opinion that Christianity was better near the very end of the book, which doesn't matter, since she is a scholar, not a gythia. The rest of the book is just written from a scholarly historic perspective and is just a general overview. She doesn't stop and go "this is impossible to reconstruct" every five sentences.

Elves Wights and Trolls having nothing of substance? Buuuuuuuuuuuullshit. The first chapter and sections alone goes into detail on how to interact with and deal with land wights. There are also examples throughout of cases where individuals interacted with the wights in dreams and real life that go beyond just examples from the Sagas. Shitty ebook my ass. It was a small-press published book that was never originally electronic in the first place and I only happened to find someone's scanned in pdf by sheer luck.

>>11212

>Christianity is valid because my friend made up stuff so it must be valid.

>>10995

Evil spirits can be scared off with rattling iron. I've read in some "folkminnesarkiv" that skulls of beavers and seals scare them off too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozsIcwU3cvg

Does Esoteric Asatru with meditation and rune magic etc exist?

>>11707

No, that's just a bunch of new age shit. I think you should check out Scandinavian folk magic and Icelandic Galdrastafir instead.