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File: b4888f5a8fab999⋯.jpg (310.33 KB, 1024x768, 4:3, kurt-cobain-1024.jpg)

 No.50630

I was wondering this since I've been thinking about it around the 2010s

a lot of what we call "soyboys" today were imprinted in the images of Eddie Vedder and Kurt Cobain and some of their pals.

now I like some AIC and Soundgarden but this sudden shift of celebrating masculinity in the 80s to despising it in the 90s seemed a little off to me.

he's also been in the news lately. with a lot of his gear being sold for high prices and their daughter getting pissed at Courtney Love

also any theories surrounding his death or the symbolism appreciated.

sort of a /mu/ and /x/ crossover thread

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 No.50649

>>50630

I couldn't care less about that fag, though in my angstiest moments as a teenager I enjoyed his music. To answer your question though, I would say it's possible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Paid_the_Piper%3F

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 No.50652

File: 338d75901b03d3e⋯.jpg (112.33 KB, 970x550, 97:55, twisted-sister.jpg)

File: 2b973fd0cf662be⋯.jpg (143.83 KB, 800x600, 4:3, crue-a73439428594720efd045….jpg)

File: f87e11a4bc558cc⋯.jpg (465.39 KB, 960x540, 16:9, Duran Duran.jpg)

File: 94cb0e57c73dfe8⋯.jpg (60.08 KB, 500x675, 20:27, e2f6ef3c22bf32977a06da13fe….jpg)

File: a4b133bed2075f0⋯.jpg (51.5 KB, 552x828, 2:3, 1e4c2c03cc0391c701dfdc1447….jpg)

>celebrating masculinity in the 80s

Movies, sure. Music, fuck no.

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 No.50668

File: 19fbb9b76691470⋯.jpg (1.14 MB, 1400x1400, 1:1, Prince.jpg)

File: db00903a3634f95⋯.jpg (27.47 KB, 253x390, 253:390, DB.jpg)

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 No.50679

>>50652

I'm talking about the general social climate not the culture of music itself. That's subjective.

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 No.50680

>>50649

Surprised right wing publications have it a negative review if they saw what was going on after the cold war ended. I know I even saw it as a kid play out. Maybe I was smarter than most conservatives in power and I was a little runt.

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 No.50689

>>50679

Point is, societal subversion was alive and kicking by the 80s. These fudgepackers were pushing femininity on impressionable young males. Some of it worked, some of it didn't. Makeup became an exclusively goth/emo thing after the early 90s and no band was seen dead wearing it. Skintight, shiny leather pants on the other hand stayed, despite the fact skintight anything is chiefly designed for females to accentuate their curves. If a real man had to wear lower garments made of leather, he'd wear them thick, baggy and matte. Like you see on a motorcycle outfit. Something rugged that can take the punishment. Not something that squeaks incessantly every time you breathe in and out and reflects the surface of the sun.

I maintain that 80s boy bands and male solo artists that helped to perpetuate the "metrosexual" psy-op were the sole push factor for young men to seek out gangsta rap and hip hop towards the end of the 80s and early 90s. Because the successful white acts that were being pushed were not masculine. Suddenly these fresh-faced niggers enter the fray, musclebound from their time in the pen, wearing their guns like a badge of honor and talking about fucking women.

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 No.50691

>>50689

Your idea of masculinity is extremely limited. Upper class men used to wear make-up and wigs, and skin-tight pants. Male beauty used to be celebrated in the ancient world, and many legendary warriors had long hair. This idea that manly men need to look a very specific way is relatively recent, and I'm not sure how it came to be, but it seems pretty stupid. David Bowie for example was a "real man", whatever that means. Caring about your appearance is not inherently a feminine trait just like the opposite doesn't make you a "real man" (I'm willing to bet that Bowie's testosterone level was higher than 95% of men alive today).

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 No.50692

>>50689

so what about extreme metal, which was taking root then?

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 No.50693

>>50691

he loved younger women, something that one hundred years ago no one batted an eye at until feminism came along to put it under scrutiny.

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 No.50695

I also wanted to add I had run ins with wiggers back in the day due to liking said extreme metal and HC punk. just recently some dudes that might as well be Juggalos, fresh faced out of HS threatened me with death just because I wanted to spread my music around. I never even met the guys or knew them prior. just a straight up threat in response, no real reason. apparently they knew I was a nerdy kid in hs myself but they looked about maybe mid 20s. I'm almost 37. the fuck?

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 No.50696

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

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 No.50697

my views contest this is Cultural Capitalism and nothing to do with actual Socialism. the issue lies in the fact Marxism or Socialism would have to turn a profit and that would negate it being so. I've read Gramsci and Frankfurt writers enough to know that they're mostly crap and often times their shit can be used against them. still they can be useful, if to a small degree to further things they would be against.

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 No.50698

>>50630

Grunge was really just the culmination of the punk rock effeminacy that had been rotting since the post-sexual revolution, with enough of a hardened edge as to be accepted in the mainstream dudes and bros. The death of masculinity.

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 No.50703

>>50697

This sort of absolutist approach to ideologies is kind of retarded.

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 No.50712

>>50703

I dunno, the video made an absolutist statement themselves right off the bat so I guess whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

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 No.50714

File: 5f80987f5b55b28⋯.jpg (73.74 KB, 680x911, 680:911, Mike_conley.jpg)

>>50691

>Upper class men used to wear make-up and wigs, and skin-tight pants.

Yes, in the 1700s.

And more often than not, those people were effeminate. They rarely had to work; they had serfs and slaves for that. They could spend all day fulfilling their hedonistic desires.

>He thinks that I believe long hair = feminine

Tell that to Kevin Nash, or Paul Levesque, or Mark Calaway, and see how long you last. Sure they have little in the way of actual fighting background, but they don't need to; their imposing physique is usually enough. Long hair on its own isn't feminine. You can be jacked like a motherfucker and have hair long enough to use as a ladder.

>This idea that manly men need to look a very specific way is relatively recent

What definition are you using in terms of "recent"? There's a very well known picture of boxer Mike Conley from the late 1800s that bear the archetypes of what I'd deem manly. Then you proceed into the world wars and on both sides, particularly America and Germany, all the propaganda showed strong males once more in this archetype. Chiseled jaws. Radiant, short hair that has been styled nonetheless. Toned chests. Bulging arms.

>David Bowie for example was a "real man"

That fucked Mick Jagger, but do go on.

>Caring about your appearance is not inherently a feminine trait

YES IT IS.

Present day niggers spend thousands on shoes they're never going to wear, pride themselves on "bling", and continue to buy eyesore modifications for their car. All in the name of caring over their appearance. Though they may not look it, they are buying into effeminate behavior, pure and simple.

>I'm willing to bet that Bowie's testosterone level was higher than 95% of men alive today

Ah, I got it. You're trolling.

>>50692

In small European countries, maybe. Unless you refer to mainstream shit like the Big Four, which I doubt you are. NWA turned the music industry on its head and are the sole reason the "Explicit Content" sticker exists. Rap was an overnight cultural phenomenon accelerated, with zero doubt in my mind, by the metrosexuality psy-op. Because they came in at a time when very few mainstream acts (Phil Collins as perhaps the rare exception, and believe it or not, Freddie Mercury too) exuded a generally masculine image. Mercury only ever wore drag for that one music video to my knowledge, and it was entirely humorous due to the moustache he kept on throughout.

>>50695

And those guys' names? Albert Einstein.

And provided that anecdote is even real, what you are referring to are Juggalos. Cultural deviants from before even furries were established. Thanks to a party that some little shit named Marshall Mathers held in the mid 90s resulting in the group growing to hate him, they remain universally despised to this day by anyone who aren't them.

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 No.50726

>>50714

>And more often than not, those people were effeminate. They rarely had to work; they had serfs and slaves for that. They could spend all day fulfilling their hedonistic desires.

See, this is where we disagree. You seem to think that being manly must be necessarily about hard work and being busy doing stuff. That's completely arbitrary and sounds very lower class. You're not less of a man because you can afford to play chess while drinking tea instead of chopping trees down.

>Then you proceed into the world wars and on both sides, particularly America and Germany, all the propaganda showed strong males once more in this archetype.

Maybe because they were soldiers? Yes, a soldier needs to be in good shape and keep his hair short for practical purposes. But again, you're defining masculinity in a very utilitarian and situation-specific way.

>YES IT IS.

No it isn't. Who cares what niggers do? Caring about your appearance is a basic human trait. If you wash and shave your face, get a haircut once in a while, and try to wear nice clothes, you're taking care of yourself, not being feminine. If you didn't do those things, you wouldn't be seen as more manly… you'd just look like a hobo. It's sad, you've been brainwashed to believe that you're not allowed to improve your appearance, even though people will still judge you based on how you look, even if they say otherwise.

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 No.50858

File: bcbc11a3cfd452b⋯.jpg (155.33 KB, 1401x788, 1401:788, 1401x788-GettyImages-85513….jpg)

Luckil the true bastard king of rock n roll lived through all of it. Steadfast, stubborn, full of vinegar, and ready to mount the world that tried to fuck him over. A true man who was born to lose, but lived to win. RIP Motorhead. RIP Lemmy

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 No.54348

it was 'psyop' since beatles/presley days at least

basically any popular shit is a psyop

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