469fef No.16934335
>sonic is all about going fast
>except the timed missions they require you to play well
I think this is one of the many underappreciated features that this game provides. I find most people just judge a game based on a single playthrough instead of actually learning to play well. Can we get an SA2 thread going? For the first time I'm actually playing the game rather than just getting to the end. It feels great. It's amazing how much I've missed out when I was a kid.
____________________________
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cb90a4 No.16934337
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0fc496 No.16934339
>>16934335
>Sonic Adventure 2 isn't as bad as people make it out to be
Huh? Only complete retards would call SA2 a bad game.
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4bb4d1 No.16934340
>>16934337
Maybe kinda of a retroactive thing, now that the game's like 19 years old and most of the ways you can break it are well documented people pretend it's worse than it actually is.
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bff90b No.16934344
I haven't played SA2 in a minute, I kinda miss it.
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f9cbd7 No.16934363
Sonic stages were always fun. Knuckles was always tedious. Tails is whatever. Chao Garden is an amazingly addictive piece of side content. The SA games aren't perfect, but the fanboys of the originals were never fair to them.
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469fef No.16934368
>>16934363
>Knuckles was always tedious
I was a retarded kid once too. You're supposed to read the hints and use your noggin to solve these. Saying they're tedious when they're short and sweet is kind of pushing it. Chao Garden on the other hand is the epitome of a slow grind. Using tedious to describe the Chao Garden would be more accurate. How do you conflict the two?
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f9cbd7 No.16934369
>>16934368
I don't have to play Chao Garden when I want to be playing Sonic. That's the issue.
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469fef No.16934371
>>16934369
That doesn't really address the fact that these levels are short and sweet. Can be done in minutes while the Chao Garden is a slow tedious grind of non-gameplay. Again, how did you conflict the two?
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9afb84 No.16934372
>>16934368
>You're supposed to read the hints
You might as well use items in DMC games, since in both cases detract from your score ranking.
>>16934369
It's supposed to be used in tandem with the VMU for the Dreamcast and the GBA link cable for the Gamecube along with any of the first few portable Sonic titles. God help you if you have neither, especially if your memory card ever gets corrupted or you lost a copy of the other game. Both of which happened to me They chao can be enjoyable but fuck replaying stages to have your chao only marginally grow and lose in the harder races/karate. It wasn't until last year that I finally had all the emblems after giving all of my chao as much fruit as I could in a much shirter frame of time.
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f9cbd7 No.16934373
>>16934371
Because it's not fun. It's the meme of what people think collectathon platformers are, where the whole thing is just walking around a hub area and picking things up, as opposed to interesting and varied activities that reward you with a shiny at the end.
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469fef No.16934379
>>16934373
>but fun
Non-gameplay is more fun to you than an actual challenge. Hmm I see. Whatever floats your moat I guess.
>it's a meme of what people think of what
I don't think that's quite the intention of the gamemode. Isn't that just a big assumption? Furthermore I do think the treasure hunt levels do contain interesting locations.
>where the whole thing is just walking around a hub area and picking things up
I'm being obtuse here for comedic effect. Are you talking about the Chao Garden? collectathon platformers are in general just for people too stupid to beat mario world romhacks no?
>>16934372
>score
I was in that case only referring to the mandatory sections of the game and how short they can be. But you're right that using items in DMC detracts from your score. I'm using the mod though so no way I'm not reading the hints everytime.
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e025e9 No.16934380
Nobody claimed SA2 was bad when it was new. Nobody. Sanic didn't become a meme until after Sonic Heroes.
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f9cbd7 No.16934382
>>16934379
Chao Garden is optional side content. It's not getting in my way when I want to play Sonic. I don't see what you don't understand here. When I want to run forward on a linear path, I select the campaign, and get irritated whenever it forces me to play as Knuckles, because it's getting in the way of what I want. When I want to play a tismy creature raising game, it's an option that's off to the side and I can select it.
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469fef No.16934385
>>16934382
>When I want to play a tismy creature raising game
Read my post and actually reply to it next time. If you don't want to discuss something. That's fine. Just don't hit the reply button with a repeat.
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f9cbd7 No.16934389
>>16934385
The appeal is raising little creatures and watching them compete in contests. I don't care about the mechanics, man.
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469fef No.16934394
>>16934389
Didn't ask schizoid.
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92bf30 No.16934403
I love SA2, the adventure games were the peak of the series in my opinion
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bb62fa No.16934436
>>16934385
>Read my post and actually reply to it next time.
Says the anon with the reading comprehension of a newt, the irony here is palpable.
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f9cbd7 No.16934437
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a951ca No.16934466
>>16934335
>Knuckles/Rouge have some sort of radar to find the mother emerald fragments
<Radar fails to notice the fragments unless they find them in the right order, enforcing backtrack
>Miles is in the game
<His tails are crippled so he's forced to copy Robotnik
>Playing as Robotnik
<A watered down Time Crisis/Rail Shooter-Crash Bandicoot 1 hybrid
Playing the Not/Sonic parts A.K.A. 1/3 of the game was alright except for one or two bosses, chao garden is a love/hate thing so i ain't gonna comment on that
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9ae00b No.16934481
The mechanics are fundamentally worse than in Adventure 1 for every character.
Sanic:
>one press spindash that needs to charge replaced by instant light speed dash that increases your speed
>light speed dash is janky as fuck and can send you in the wrong direction or end abruptly if your starting angle is off
>the button for using it is overloaded with other actions including the bounce move, which makes using it in midair a huge gamble
>roll move is useless bloat to replace the spindash as default action
>introduced grind rails
>grind rails have inconsistently sized landing zones
Gamma/Eggman:
>speed greatly decreased
>jump height decreased
>camera zoomed in too much
>racing against the clock replaced by scoring system
Knuckles:
>emerald radar arbitrarily ignores pieces
>instead you get "hints" that only become useful by the time you already have the piece on your radar or outright lead you to the wrong place
The tougher grading system is a plus and the levels are harder, but the mechanics are a step down.
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7c6129 No.16934483
>>16934466
<Radar fails to
Just mod.
<miles is crippled
Him controlling mechanical machinery just makes sense. As for platforming it'd be awfully slow and boring to control him more freely through platforming stages (instead of sonic) with flight. See Sonic 4 Episode 2 and 06. They completely trivialize any otherwise challenge. Story wise I'm fine with it.
<A watered down Time Crisis/Rail Shooter-Crash Bandicoot 1 hybrid
<crash bandicoot invented
It's just a light gun shooter with autoaim. Crash Bandicoot doesn't have momentum so all the jumps are exactly 4 tiles wide and this never changes, from level 1 through the last, so I dropped that game hard when I realized the game would never evolve and mario world romhacks were better, SA2 has momentum in railgun stages so I wouldn't really dare to compare it to Crash on that front. Their level design philosophy simply doesn't quite match. I should really buy a lightgun though.
>>16934481
This I agree with. Makes you wonder what they were thinking.
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cdb45c No.16934484
>>16934335
I dunno, i only ever forgiven this game for chao garden. If there was no chao garden i would openly proclaim adventure games a glitchy shame of sonic series and it only got good again with gameplay when they made Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations. And then returned to classics properly with Sonic Mania, but that one didn't contained enough original levels to be perfect.
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7c6129 No.16934485
>>16934484
>Sonic Colors/Generations
This I don't get. How can you actually like those games? It sounds like you're just not a real person when you say shit like that.
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548452 No.16934497
>>16934483
"Just mod" is not a valid answer to any criticism, Skyrim fan.
>>16934485
What was so abysmally bad about Generations? It wasn't as good as Mania, that much is obvious, but I didn't think it was unbearable.
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79d964 No.16934508
>>16934335
The game isn't bad, but with very few exceptions from Sonic and Knuckles' levels, the level design is shit and all characters' movement options are downgraded from the first Adventure, only adding to the issue. Maybe if they just built the game around Sonic, Eggman, and Knuckles against fans' wishes they would've had more time to develop their respective stages and gameplay.
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469fef No.16934606
>>16934497
>is not a valid answer to any criticism
But it is. It's a solution provided to a problem. It's actually agreeing with that it is in fact a legit criticism. Just one no longer applicable. Why isn't modding a valid answer? Do you hate solutions?
>>16934497
>>16934485
Generations/Colors offer boring 3-lane gameplay. They take away your freedoms and essentially becomes an auto-runner. Not the greatest fan of their physics either. It tried to be a modern 2D donkey kong game with lots of points of no return while expecting you to collect missables. I didn't quite get that. Never was a fan of Mania myself. There's a genuine disconnect in level-design. Every biome it copies it just haphazardly does so. It has more of a rhythm in the originals, you can feel things being introduced at a regular pace rather than just being a throwback. As for the original levels, it's not really personally connecting to me. They're just not all too memorable. You can look at the map of GHZ zoomed-out and compare it to the remade GHZ in Mania zoomed-out. Mania just lacks a solid comprehension of what makes good level design in the first place. And it lacks originality. People really jumping on the Colors/Mania bandwagon feels therefore to me really fake.
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0d869d No.16934608
>>16934363
Did people really think the Master Emerald Levels were hard or tedious? I get that they can be repetitive, but Knuckles and Rogue are both fast and have relatively shorter levels in size and time completion. They aren’t even slow either so I failed to see the point in complaining that they tedious or bad. You can’t even get lost in them with maybe the exception of Death Chamber and Rogue’s equivalent. Most kids have object permanence and a decent threshold of memory.
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548452 No.16934610
>>16934606
>Do you hate solutions?
Very clever. So you think all Skyrim criticism that can be fixed by mods doesn't count? You're fine with games being released and then still needing months of unpaid work by volunteers to be playable? Criticism isn't valid if you have a moving target. It is generally accepted that when you level criticism, it is at a game as it was launched, or a game with the latest patches. Not a game with mods, because you have no idea what those mods could potentially be for any one person's given installation.
>Colors/Mania bandwagon
Why the fuck do you keep lumping these games together as if they're the exact same? Just because you don't like any of them doesn't mean they are exactly equivalent. I got bored with Generations after a while, never played Colors because it doesn't really look like my cup of tea, but enjoyed Mania.
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4bb4d1 No.16934613
>>16934608
Honestly the only bad thing I can think about them is maybe with Meteor Herd and Mad Space being kinda cumbersome to navigate, and the completely arbitrary double penalty for getting the emeralds out of order. (Reduced points on the one you pick up out of order and a score penalty applied to the first for the time spent grabbing the second)
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469fef No.16934614
>>16934610
>but what about
That's not the argument I'm making. The validity of critique isn't being brought into question but rather acknowledged and a solution is being provided so you no longer have to complain about a non-issue. Again trying to ask if you hate solutions?
<it is generally accepted
Then the generals are wrong. We're not living in the past. We're talking about a game in the now.
<patches count, mods don't
No difference
<Colors and Mania aren't the same
Good job ignoring the points I made about the games separately implying I was well aware they weren't the same.
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548452 No.16934616
>>16934614
>That's not the argument I'm making.
Except you didn't dictate the terms of discussion, the OP did. The thread is about Sonic Adventure 2 and why people don't like it. The guy you replied to offered a criticism of the game; a reason for why people didn't necessarily like it. You suggested installing a mod made by unpaid 3rd party volunteers is a solution to the problem. Therefore, the developers of the game failed to address the issue. Not to mention it is rather unrealistic for you to expect every person who had this issue with the game to install this mod. The thread is about general public opinion, not about getting the game to a point where one individual person can like it.
>Good job ignoring the points I made about the games separately implying I was well aware they weren't the same.
I didn't ignore shit. You stated "Colors/Mania bandwagon" as if you must necessarily love Colors if you love Mania. That makes no fucking sense. Why did you use that phrase? I can't read your mind. Communicate clearly if you mean to state something and don't fill your posts with unnecessary bullshit.
>No difference
There's a multitude, not the least being that the developers who made the game have much more resources at their disposal. They have access to knowledge and tools that modders don't usually have, unless the developers go out of their way to make it available. All software is much more easily changed during production and pre-production than it is post-release. Therefore, it would be much easier for the developers to fix these issues before the game is released than for modders to deal with it post-release.
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d7d50d No.16934641
Anyone who says it's a bad game overall is a fucking retard, but it does still have some problems. Grinding is fucking gay: I've died so many times because the game refused to connect Sonic to the rail or did some retarded physics shit that made him stop in the middle of a long rail grind. The fact that the treasure radar will only detect emerald pieces in order is also dumb.
>>16934372
The real secret to the chao garden is to find a stage with a stat animal right at the start, grab it, restart level, and repeat. Then give your digital golden child all the animals very quickly, rinse, and repeat. It's like chao steroids. For stamina, just unlock hero garden and force feed the little mofo.
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9afb84 No.16934656
>>16934606
There were a few levels in Generations like Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Palace where the levels opened up and had a bunch of paths that intersect constantly with the latter in particular having a defined upper fast lane and lower route with branching platforms or being able to just run across the water. It's a pity that his controls weren't too tuned for lower speed to take advantage of that.
Perhaps the most recurring criticism towards Mania's level design was that it was too messy and ran on for too long, which I get, but didn't bother me too much. Metallic Madness Zone ironically felt more focused compared to its original incarnation, for example, as it should, since there's no badnik generator to justify that. The interaction with the Sandopolis pulleys in Oil Ocean in conjunction with the fire shield were a fun sight and the submarines were another decent way to spruce things up. Its Flying Battery is for better or worse, larger and felt that it flowed somewhat better without those elevators in pic related that you mostly had to stop and wait in such a comparatively linear level. The biggest dud in the game was Hydrocity where much wasn't changed aside from slow gondolas and Labyrinth Zone references.
>>16934614
Patches can be made by the developers themselves, whereas modding is provided by fans that alter the game in ways that may be beneficial but also were never a part of the intended experience.
>>16934641
I found it a mixed bag, I loved that it still retained some semblance of inertia like how you moved in the classics and weren't dumbed down and automated like following games but good luck switching rails without slowing or falling down. I did that with the chao and maybe it was because they had already evolved once or because my sister played it with me so I had a bunch of chao to give animals, drives and fruit to, but putting my strongest one in the tiny chao garden and feeding him fruits there got the job done in a few weeks.
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b03d0f No.16934674
I’ve had my frustrations
with sonic adventure two in the past but not enough for me to call it a bad game
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eb888c No.16934676
>>16934335
my only complaints are in comparison to SA1:
Tails/Eggman's gameplay isn't as good as E-102
Knuckles/Rouge levels only give you the next emerald in the sequence instead of beeping from proximity to any of them as they did in SA1. An absolute bitch to A rank
Sonic/Shadow's gameplay is an objective improvement from SA1, with simplified light speed dash along ring trails (enabling midair ring trails too) and overall excellent design
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f9cbd7 No.16934687
>>16934485
I think they're fun. The fact that they're not the same as whichever game you prefer in the series doesn't take away from that. yeah, they're on rails in a sense. I like on-rails gameplay.
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f9cbd7 No.16934688
>>16934608
They don't have to be hard to be boring. I mean, how often do you still play hide and seek as an adult? Not really stimulating, is it?
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14d19f No.16934736
>>16934335
SA2 is the pinnacle of 3D Sonic games and has aged like wine. Sure, it has a couple rough spots, but they're nothing that couldn't be easily be patched. It's not perfect by today's standards but at this point what is?
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2034a7 No.16934742
>>16934688
Fair enough. ME levels are hit or miss for everyone. I kinda like SA1’s level design where they retrofit the levels for each individual character, so you at least know what you’re getting into. Although I prefer SA2 where they make original levels for each character.
>>16934613
Meteor Herd and Aquatic Mine are vertical based and have easier methods of traveling like swimming and the rockets so it’s fine if they’re “big”. Mad Space is overly convoluted and the forced gravity gimmick is awful. I had Battle since 2004 and never knew that you get points deducted if you do them out of order.
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243ec3 No.16934743
>>16934736
>SA2 is the pinnacle of 3D Sonic games and has aged like wine
God damn you niggers deserve everything Sega does to Sonic
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0744d1 No.16934800
>>16934363
>>16934608
The egyptian stages for both Knuckles' pyramid was boring shit but the boss fight was great. Knuckles but the first stages were nice, Pumpkin Hill is fucking amazing, ROuge has the stinker vault stage, Knuckles and Rouge's space stages are beyond addictive for all the best reasons. Honestly people overexaggerate about them.
>>16934380
>Nobody
Nigga you serious? People shat on the game for having fucking Rouge, Edgy the Hedgy copying Sonic's stages "except much worse" and people bitched endlessly about Tails not flying around but he and Eggman walkig around in mechs.
>>16934641
>Grinding is fucking gay: I've died so many times because the game refused to connect Sonic to the rail or did some retarded physics shit that made him stop in the middle of a long rail grind.
How do people have a problem with grinding of all things? I always found the lightspeed dash tedious since there was an entire fucking button dedicated to doing fucking nothing of the Gamecube(X) and the B button for Sonic and Shadow was useless when it could have been close to how they attack in Sonic Advance 2 where it ties with the speed they have.
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243ec3 No.16934841
>>16934800
>How do people have a problem with grinding of all things
Shitty collision detection which plagues every 3D sonic game since SA1 along with completely busted physics which work better when you break them rather than playing as intended.
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eb888c No.16934850
>>16934613
>penalty for getting them out of order
FOR WHAT FUCKING PURPOSE?
with the indicator refusing to beep for any but the next one in the list, it's nearly impossible to find them out of order except by memorizing all their possible locations
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469fef No.16938157
>>16934616
>expect every person who had this issue with the game to install this mod
I do in so much as I expect people to use the vast collective knowledge that is the internet and the passage of time to improve their everyday lives. In such a way I find that living in or hypothesizing about how what our thoughts would be on things from the past or stuck in that time frame to be rather illogical on your end. I simply do not get how you can hold that viewpoint.
>you started X
Not at all. You jumped to a conclusion and after I tried to explain what I had meant instead you just refused to take my word for it. That's really not helping anyone.
<I can't read your mind
Then don't assume. But you didn't ask anything. You just assumed.
<modders might not be autistic enough to be as knowledgeable as the fucks that fucked up the initial outsourced pc port
True, but in this sense, there's no difference to the player if the result's the same. I didn't need the 101 on how game development works, but I appreciate it being there for those who do.
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4b7aef No.16940933
>>16934850
This is confusing, I'll have to boot up the game myself, because I'm pretty sure it doesn't penalize you for stumbling upon an emerald before getting the first one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOz8uA4neo
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f9cbd7 No.16940979
Just realised Spark the Electric Jester 2 actually came out. Did anyone play it?
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dc7b83 No.16941019
SA2 is pretty good and my only issue with it comes from nipples enchilada and Tits Mcgee gameplay.
The Random gems mixed with nerfed radar gives this really dreading feeling when playing that over any form of skill being a factor you could just learn a couple locations and in a line and see if you get 2/3 gems from it and then grab the last one which will be radar prone now and eventually get top rank from brute forcing and luck unlike the mech or speed levels.
When every gem shown on the radar you could learn methods to easily spot them out the level design but the new weaker 1 gem only radar can lead levels to being 1 gem one side of the level 1 gem on the other and the last gem was on the first side.
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dc7b83 No.16941020
>>16940979
I have, it's very fun but there's quirks.
Game is clearly made for Mouse and Keyboard because precise turning is easier by moving the camera which is infinitely easier with a mouse than analogue.
Also there's a clear idea that the combination of Edgy + Energy sword which give quick speed + bonus jump which carries said quick speed momentum is a clear better power up then most of the others.
Set pieces in levels are amazing because there's never a point where control is taken away but you're doing really cool stuff like one later level has this massive tower and you're going to run up the side of it all with in game physics.
For a small / one man project it is an amazing feat.
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5b4594 No.16941031
>>16934368
I legit just memorized where the Spawn locations were for the emerald shards when I was a kid.
I think my fastest time was 30 seconds, but there's stuff in the stage to break up the tedium
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