/v/ - Video Games

the only time I heard about Walpurgis is Bible Black and for me it's tied to futa shit

>>16408252

Then the answer for you is clearly the Bible Black VNs.

When will Mark stream Bible Black?

>>16408300

After he streams Boku no Pico

>>16408326

I can't wait

>>16408252

i thought it was fictional holiday from madoka magica

Probably play some mystik belle, got a couple of hours in a long time ago but never picked it up again.

>>16408231

Some Doom maps with DarkDoomZ on can be spooky.

Some, like Unloved. are just plain spooky anyway.

>>16409108

>Unloved

The spookiest thing about that fucking map was how bullshit it was.

>>16409125

It was definitely bullshit, but it had damn good spooks to it that had nothing to do with the bullshit.

>>16409069

>fictional

throw every mindless weeb onto the pyre

>>16409138

there is a translation patch now.

>>16408252

Wasn't it in one of the Tinklebell Punyupuri games too?

>>16409273

>>16409138

Still not worth playing unless you really love mami, everyone gets its own route but they only really put effort on cowtits-chan. Don't try the vita game either, it's a mediocre action game that forces grindan at the very end unless you wanna get raped by walpurgis, and even then you still die, except it was a dream and nothing happened so fuck you, go watch the anime again.

>>16409485

>pic

>>16409485

I want Madoka to make me pregnant.

>>16409600

Shut up, Nova Void.

>>16409664

It's supposed to be funny

>>16409820

PT?

>>16409884

When your toilet paper's facing the wrong way

>>16409433

>not being a girl in your imagination

Even that doesn't help with Homura though because she's so focused on Madoka, so unless you can imagine yourself as Madoka specifically it doesn't really work

>>16409820

the horror movie business model has moved over to horror games. Fund a dozen interchangeable jumpscare walking sims and hope one sticks.

>>16409433

>implying madoka is a homusexual

Homura and Madoka are both just you. In response to a fallen world you can't maintain your true self so you split it up into a Homura "Dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed" persona who loses their love and innocence in the process, and a Madoka, the other persona who represents that lost love and innocence which can't exist in a fallen world, who you hope to maintain in an isolated stasis until a solution is found to this state of affairs.

Be careful around anime

>>16410220

>homusexual

jej

>>16409392

It's only fair that Mami gets extra attention, she got screwed in the anime. Even as someone that loves DFC, Miami was the best Madoka. Also she isn't even much of a cowtits, in the actual show as opposed to fanart she's pretty normal by anime standards and very slender, especially around the waist. It's mostly the three almost-flatties making her look bigger in comparison.

might just play STALKER or Doom/Quake or maybe this year play Nosferatu: The Wrath Of Malachi or maybe give Condemned: Criminal Origins another try.

>>16410441

That's average size in anime for girls that aren't supposed to be small. She's medium-big, but not huge to enormous like in most fanart. Place her next to a titcow from an average fanservice show and she looks small in comparison.

Also to be honest I think she's a little smaller in the anime, though it has been a while since I watched it.

>>16408252

the only time i heard about it is this death/thrash album

>>16409558

>Could be much worse. I knew a guy who waifu'd Mami when the series started. He disappeared after EP 3 aired.

Hey, I know a guy like that too. Only he's a necrophiliac so he just waifu'd Mami even harder after that

>>16410526

Explain the inverted nipples meme to me.

Now I feel like rewatching Madoka.

>>16410361

Mami had a hard life.

>>16411713

Don't you start with that horseshit.

>>16411715

Some people just have bad taste. People that are into scat will no doubt tell you that it's perfectly natural and give you a long list of reasons why they consider it a great fetish, but the fact of the matter is that they're into disgusting shit. Inverted nipples is similar; it's ugly and unattractive, but that doesn't stop people with bad taste from liking it. At least it isn't as bad as scat. Maybe they'll try to tell you that it's a common fetish, but that doesn't exactly mean much when you consider how disgustingly common things like fat, furry or interracial porn are these days.

>>16412069

Do inverted nipples even exist in real life?

>>16412135

just stop coming to /v/. That'll help a ton.

>>16412129

Yes.

>>16412171

thats pic is bullshit or i would be dead tenfold

>>16412186

But what if you are, and this is hell?

>>16412188

Then a lot of things would start making sense.

>>16412171

So you're saying you should drink cum every day for optimal male vitality?

>>16412201

agressive retsuko.

>>16408252

Same here.

Also, Reika Kitami best dickgirl

>>16412261

double d best girl

>>16412206

>>16412201

It's on Netflix as Aggretsuko. There's also the series of 100 1-minute TBS TV shorts, but I'm not sure where to find those.

>>16412261

You should probably give a filename that doesn't spoil the joke.

>>16412276

I ain't paying fucking Netflix kikes any money.

>>16412243

>The only way people find out about pieces of "western" culture is outside of jewish media

Huh

>>16409433

>Lesbian

Until their looks start to fade, at least

You aren't dicking them hard enough.

>>16412353

Serves him right for choosing the generic girl although i have to admit she was rather cute when she was innocent, bespectacled and wore her hair in a braid, we all know that hungry redhead loli is best meguca.

>>16412353

>unironically having a waifu

How do you niggers even do that? I get liking a character a whole lot, but you must know she's not fucking real. I even tried getting one, but I guess I'm not insane enough

>>16412356

I think Kingdom Come: Deliverance lets you hunt witches. No idea if you get to burn them tho

>>16412484

you get to fuck them

memes aside Lovecraft is enjoyable to read.

>>16412553

Have you considered being Homura?

>>16412570

That makes no sense.

He wants to fugg her and impregnate her, not spend an eternity chasing a ghost.

>>16412589

If he were her, he could stop being gay for Madoka

>>16412538

I liked mountains of madness

>>16412129

Yes. I know this because I used to have them. I'll let you fill in the rest.

>>16412653

The Rats in the Walls is awesome

>>16412776

>spoiler

are you just a fat guy or girl?

>>16412790

neither. I was underweight for a long time and just assumed that had something to do with it.

>>16412814

Nigga I don't know. I was flat as a washboard and for some reason they normally poked in, only coming out when it was cold.

Sage because I'm too tired to do any gay shit right now.

I unironically keep an SMT: Nocturne save file on hand to replay the fight with Lucifer as a walpurgisnight tradition.

>>16412538

Not really. His works are legitimately autistic in writing style. Robert E. Howard was the better writer.

>>16412538

>>16412653

>>16412776

Ya'll should check out the jap claymated lovecraft movie.

>>16412538

The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath is one of my favorite books. The popular conception of Lovecraft is very one-note and boring but the guy was a legitimately great author.

>>16413665

t.(((guy))) who replaced his award with some shitty tree

>>16413867

I've got nothing against his views. His stories are written in an autistic manner though, and it's difficult to read. As I said, his contemporary and acquaintance, Robert E. Howard, was the better writer. If only because he wasn't autistic.

>>16408292

I only found out about the VNs longer afterwards, and I only stumpled upon it by accident due to LimeWire. Are there any good endings? I only ever got bad to terrible ones on my playthrus.

>>16408231

>that fucking image

read it in order and laughed for a minute straight at the end

Friendly reminder than Urobutcher has never been involved in a good anime and that he should just keep doing tokusatsu.

Thunderbolt Fantasy is toku, fuck you

What even is walpurgisnacht anyways? Halloween for germans? A night where a powerful witch terrorizes the town?

>>16415337

Its super old germanic pagan stuff which got revised and corrupted several times over the millenia but in the end, its halloween upside down.

Its the night all witches of the land come together on the Walpurgis Hill to throw a ceremony and conjur the devil. That night, normal people keep inside because ghosts and demons haunt the sky. It confilcts heavily with another tradition of ours which is Fasching, the time from November to February in which we make a lot of noise and wear horrible outfits to get rid of said ghosts.

Walpurgis Nacht isnt something to celebrate, like the Totenwache, its a night to shut the fuck up and dont get drunk in the tavern.

>>16415337

You get together, build a big fire, light it up, and cook some sausage over it, have BBQ, that sort of stuff.

>>16415420

Maybe if you're autistic. It is THE night to go out and get drunk by the fire with friends while cooking potatoes and drinking booze. Seeing as how no witch decided to punish this behavious so far, I see no reason to sit at home and shit my pants like you suggest.

>>16408252

Tons of metal and folk songs about it.

And Bible Black had legit good plot. It was a demonic cult story and a tale about not fucking with the dark arts. Probably the best hentai plot I have seen.

>>16415443

I stay at home no matter the date so stick it. Its the original story. If you need A night to get out and get drunk in GER you are the autistic one, because theres something we around here we call weekend. And Fasching. And Silvester. And Mittsommer. And Sonnenwende, which is what you actually were talking about. I have never seen a bonfire lit at Walpurgisnacht ever in my 30 winters.

>>16415454

>I have never seen a bonfire lit at Walpurgisnacht ever in my 30 winters.

Get off your ass and come look to Czechia on Tuesday and you'll see the whole country light up at night – fires everywhere you look.

>>16415463

Kinda heretical tbh. The inquisition was right.

>>16415463

Makes sense, the Kleine Hexe plays out in Bohemia as well iirc.

>>16415467

>>16415472

It's supposedly done in some parts of Germany and in Sweden as well.

>>16415475

Probably Sachsen and Thüringen. The church would have put a pretty quick end to the celebration of literal hellspawn summoning in the south.

>>16415483

nah, the idea is you burn the witch - we usually make some ugly effigy of the witch from old rags and the like and throw it on the fire

>>16415545

30 minus 20 is 10, anon.

>>16415476

Germany doesn't have any constitutional limit to the chancellor's term, sadly. She could stay here forever as long as germans elect her party.

>>16413847

People get a lot wrong about Lovecraft. Some of his stories are pretty one note, but definitely not all of them. People also tend to miss the point and also miss how the nastiest fuckers in his setting are generally human sorcerers or low tier beings like the fish men.

>>16417643

Im not really sure what you're trying to say, but the higher up the food chain you go the less likely they are to actually care about Humans and/or earth, and if they don't care then they aren't going to actively try to fuck everything. Human sorcerers and fish-men have human-like ambitions. The one major exception to the rule is Nyarlathotep, who specifically enjoys fucking with people.

>>16417745

Just keep going, I want to see how retarded you can get

>>16412538

At the Mountains of Madness

The Thing on the doorstep

The Whisperer in the Darkness

Then read about Lovecraft and how basically if he was born 100 years later he'd be posting here, he felt he was born to succeed and achieved no success, he was a virgin well into his 20s, possibly into his 30s, he was a neet, he was a shut in, he lived with his mother, he hated jews, and his dad died of syphilis.

There aren't many good films, but watch Dagon, Necronomicon and Re-Animator, and maybe the Haunted Palace, but mainly because of Vincent Price.

>>16415455

Is this the secret true final boss of Unteralterbach?

>>16417832

>he hated jews

And yet he married one.

>>16417882

As was a proud tradition of anti-semitic WASPs.

>>16417882

He did divorce her later with very little hesitation. He was given the choice to come back home and leave the city he was living in that he hated by his two aunts, as it was filled with modernity, foreigners, and little if any soul granted by years of tradition. The condition was that he divorce his jewess wife, the official reason being their family was something of an aristocracy in their hometown and having a """tradeswoman""" (she wasn't one, she was a fancy well paid department store executive of New York despite having barely moved to america from Russia, but Jews can't be guilty of intense nepotism :^) ) So far as I know, they didn't even have any children under the union, so, technically speaking, no harm no foul that I can think of.

>>16418622

>Are you Jewish, Anon? If not why do you give their ‘laws’ any legitimacy whatsoever?

Why wouldn't he, when they give their laws legitimacy by following them?

Oh yes, and to contribute to the thread here's UNHINGED.WAD and disjunct.wad for Doom.

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/unhinged

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/d-f/disjunct

Needs more Castlevania ITT.

>>16413665

>>16414268

>legitimately autistic in writing style

You'll have to elaborate. I only have one criticism against the works of his I've read through so far, and that is that the ending can be quite predictable, but the reason for its predictability is that Lovecraft builds the story quite solidly to lead into said ending, albeit his endings on some stories clearly implies he meant the ending to be a twist. I'm not aware of what an "autistic" writing style is.

>>16420072

Now that's a merchant I haven't seen before

>>16408231

Bible Black

just kidding I don't play video games

>that op pic

Lovecraft is overused and too many people misunderstand the aspects of Lovecraftian horror as an excuse not to explain or make a creature have any kind of depth to it. I know Lovecraft is a cosmic horror of incomprehensible madness but it's not like Lovecraftian creatures didn't have anything to them. They're very bleak and focus on the insignificance of human life compared to cosmic entities and the insanity that comes with it. An incomprehensible terror.

You can't fucking put a life bar to that.

>>16418622

>supposedly because he would go on lengthy rants about the Jews.

I don't think Lovecraft had any real problem with Jews form a racial perspective. I think he just disliked their cultural stuff.

>>16414898

>Are there any good endings? I only ever got bad to terrible ones on my playthrus.

The cardinal rule seems to be "control your fucking dick", avoid lusty shit and think smart, there's guides to get the good ending where you get rewarded with hot teacher and childhood friend sex.

>>16420877

This tbh.

>>16420889

True.

<‘It is absurd to think that a man of complete Aryan culture ought to be squelched because he has a quarter-share of Semitic blood, or anything like that. But it is not absurd to feel that something ought to be done to keep expression true to the real psychology of the nation involved.’

&

<‘The trouble with the Jew is not his blood – which can mix with ours without disastrous results, but his persistent & antagonistic culture-tradition. On the other hand, the negro represents a vastly inferior biological variant which must under no circumstances taint our Aryan stock. The absolute colour-line as applied to negroes is both necessary & sensible, whereas a similar deadline against Jews (though attempted by Hitler) is ridiculous.’

>>16421015

I thought I did a good job at that, but I guess I was wrong. The game does seem to force you into a lot of scenarios where you can’t do anything to get out of it with your virginity intact…

The good/true ending lets you make love to the redhead teacher and your childhood friend? Damn.

>>16420877

>You can't fucking put a life bar to that.

The cosmic horrors weren't really all that important either.

>>16420837

G.R.R.M is not so bad. His worst offense is bloated descriptions that drag on forever, but the rest of his prose is quite alright, unlike most of his contemporaries

>>16421298

>G.R.R.M is not so bad

>300,000 to 400,000+ word novels

>bloated with never ending descriptions and unnecessary details and events (diarrhea webm as an example)

>notorious for slaughtering major characters for surprise turns

GRRM is bad. He can be an enjoyable bad, to be sure, but objectively bad. King is infamous for making his novels half again as long as their plots take them just because of his attention to detail. GRRM's continual abolition of basic editing (not proof reading, but editing) in his SoI&F books is unarguably bad.

>>16423251

>300,000 to 400,000+ word novels

That alone is not a negative. I enjoy long novels.

>bloated with never ending descriptions and unnecessary details and events (diarrhea webm as an example)

Yeah, I hate that about him too, as I said above.

>notorious for slaughtering major characters for surprise turns

In no way is that a negative. Real negative related to this is that he started being formulaic with his twists so it gets predictable, but slaughtering major characters is, as a concept, perfectly alright.

>GRRM's continual abolition of basic editing

Really? I haven't noticed that much crap there. In fact, significantly less than with his contemporaries, bar his pathologic wordiness in descriptions.

>>16412538

Colour out of Space is great. Maybe the best.

Dunwich Horror is a classic, also great.

>>16412538

I really like

The Dunwich Horror

At The Mountains of Madness

Through the Gates of the Silver Key

The Quest of Iranon

>>16423651

>fire

>to celebrate witch night

I don't think you're doing it right

>>16412585

But anon, there's porn of your waifu all over the internet. People are fapping to thought of fugging your waifu right now.

>>16410239

>you were your own waifu all along

>you’re also going to cuck yourself with yourself

What the fuck happens if I masturbate now?

>>16424966

It's okay Anon.

You were technically giving yourself a handjob all along anyway

>>16423334

GRRM is just dead average. His books aren't unenjoyable to read, but neither was I unable to stop reading. Fuck the Bran and Brienne chapters though, up until Bran meets the Crow his shit is tedious and Brienne's are just as bad except they never stop being shit The issue really isn't that he writes averagely, but his entire philosophy taken to the books. SoI&F is about reverting heroics on it's head and going against the epics of old. Compare to LoTR, where the main characters are honorable and Sauron is pure evil. This crafts a ready-made narrative and we know at the start who to root for whereas in SoI&F the honorable Ned Stark just dies, Jon goes to the watch. Although I can't remember from the books, it pretty much gets summed up in the show where Bronn fights the knight in the Eyrie, defeats him and a character tells him he has no honor to which he replies "No, but he did". All the even semi-honorable characters like Tywin, the only honorable Lannister, get killed off later, with a crude line to make a mockery of his death; "Tywin Lannister did not, in fact, shit gold"

Altogether these make for interesting short stories and it's what people remember from SoI&F. The Red Wedding serves as the best example, most people can't in detail remember why the Red Wedding happened, who the marriage was between and why, but they do remember the Starks being killed. The problem stems from GRRM sticking to the epic format whilst going against everything it entails (good vs evil, a journey for the characters etc etc). Bran's journey cannot be called epic worthy, Arya's is not done of her own accord, she just sticks with the Hound until she gets on the boat to Assassin Town, whatever it's called. Daenerys isn't epic by any standard as real-life ruling, which is what her later chapters are focused on, isn't worth of storytelling. Epic ruling is much better done in Wheel of Time, with Rand's character. WoT deals with high intrigue, nation-wide famine and fantastical disasters, Daenarys deals everyday common issues and she can't resolve a single siege. Even the intrigue she deals with is less impressive because she deals with basically a resistance group against her, whereas in WoT the negotiations are between people who are rulers or as powerful as rulers in status. GRRM sums up the issue by himself.

>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

-GRRM from a rolling stone interview

Honestly, who the fuck gives a shit about Aragon's tax policy? The standing army question and what he did with the is actually explained, he waged war with Rhun, Khand and Harad and rebuilt Arnor so that only shows GRRM's own ineptness. This philosophy of needing to the the tax policy, the trading values and this minute, yet irrelevant details is what brings SoI&F down. Why do we need to know what Tywin's shit smells like? Why is there an explanation of diarrhoea? This is what people mean by editing, these should be taken out, they add nothing to the story, to the characters and they don't even serve as a description of something important. Additionally useless parts of the story can be removed, Bran's wandering in the wild can be shortened for one. All of Bran's wandering, Brienne's wandering and Arya's wandering is GRRM thinking that the word count of the journey is what makes it fantastic and epic, rather than the actual things in that word count.

(1/2)

>>16425025

>>16423334

The other, larger, issue with GRRM writing in the epic style is that it needs an ending, a conclusion to the plot and a way to tell the reader the world is in good hands now. SoI&F has no ending because it doesn't have a central plot. Why does Daenerys even exist? What does she add to Westeros? Even in Westeros, we basically have two simultaneous plots. The Jon Snow plot, involving the watch and the White Walkers and The King's Landing/Politics plot involving everyone else. When can the books finish? If they end with the ending of the King's Landing plot, we have Jon left unfinished, if they end with Jon Snow, we have Politics unfinished, and if they both somehow end together, we still have Daenerys on the other side of the world. This in turn makes it so that Daenerys has to be a Mary Sue in her universe otherwise she stays in bumfuck nowhere for the end of all time, since it's obvious that she's the only thing keeping the slaves she loves so much free so she can't leaves, else they'll be enslaved again the very next day. SoI&F has no good ending due to the "realistic" way it's written. Real-life has no ending or beginning, it just trods along. Even if the white walkers are defeated, what happens to Cersei? What about to the new power-hungry lords who spring up. The only acceptable conclusion to the world is an actual conclusion to the world, the White Walkers winning and killing Westeros. This is the single largest issue in SoI&F.

A less-important issue since it just drags the contents of the book down, not makes them purposeless, is the pacing. I've already mentioned the Bran wandering "arc", the Brienne wandering "arc", the Arya + Hound "arc". The issue comes from GRRM writing as if he was writing for children. It's as if he is scared we'll forget who Bran is if we don't go back to him every now and then. Going back to WoT, spoilers for it, When Thom disappears in the first book, and comes back later, the only thing we know of what he did is the few lines he tells to Mat. If GRRM wrote the book, we would have had a "Thom Wandering arc", a "Thom meets the female assistant arc" and a "Thom plays random fucking songs at random fucking inns arc". When you have worse pacing than Wheel of Time you've fucked up. This is what people say when they mean the books are boring. No one actually complains about, as you said, "his pathologic wordiness in descriptions". His descriptions are the best parts, you could practically draw a map of King's Landing from them.

Game of Thrones is shit because you can't go against an epic while writing in the epic format. It would be easily thrice as good if the chapters were shorter, a lot of the bulk was cut out, the only parts where the interesting events and we'd have to piece together the events. This wouldn't be book worthy though and GRRM wouldn't be able to jump around naked on his trampoline from all the money he's getting.

(2/2)

Imagine a seething aggregate of all the cumrags, socks and tissues you’ve ever used stalking your window in a need to reconcile why they were abadoned.

>>16425025

>even the little baby orcs

GGRM confirmed for a nigger who never actually fucking read LotR. I hate that nigger so much.

Your rant was good, but subversion isn't the same as good storytelling. It's not a fun or interesting read when bad things happen to good characters and good things happen to bad characters all the time. It's just shitting on conventionally-moral characters for the sake of it, and given his blatant scat fetish, I'm inclined to believe he knows that and is doign it intentionally for the sake of the subversion, in spite of it being shit for telling a story.

>>16425026

>>16425025

As someone who was fairly new to modern fantasy (this was many years ago), I thought his stuff was all right, at least in the beginning.

But then again, I simply didn't know any better back then.

I dropped it like a rock when John died and never had a second thought about picking it up again.

Speaking of the Wheel of Time, is it worth finishing?

I got to the 12th book and stopped because no more were released, and I can barely remember what happened up to that point.

>>16425111

Why is every self-insert of an author so terrible and pathetic?

Why not go balls to the wall with your worst traits and magnify them to the point where they become comical if you're going to self-insert?

It would at least make for a fun read.

>>16425111

he's almost as bad as gookanese harem/hentai anime writers, hm?

>>16425111

>even though he even writes a self-insert, it's a used-goods retard rather than a virgin waifu

This shit is bafflingly common in crappy-to-alright anglo(-influenced) fantasy. When ever the the self-insert is handed some pootang by the contrived narrative, it always comes in the loose variety, and then they "man up" and take responsibility. Sam Tarly reads like a parody of that sort of character. Usually the bookworm self-inserts aren't completely pathetic, and the chicks aren't potatos with additional potato package to take responsibility of.

Didn't know the may fire was called Walpurgisnacht in the rest of the world. I just played Call of juarez:gunslinger some after looking at the may fire.

>>16425065

I agree, SoI&F is kind of juvenile with how it approaches subversion and tilting the fantasy template on its head. The scary thing is that authors are going to now copy this style with fantasy for years to come like what happened with LotR.

>>16425111

His response in that second pic is awful to read, seeing an author that is writing "adult" fiction be that out of touch and confused is pitiful.

>>16425365

Well, go on and bang a Jewess then, see how well it turns out for you and your children.

>>16425365

The jewish race, which is a biologically-distinct race from Aryans, is itself the issue.

Culture comes from race, you retard. The destructive jewish culture you rightly criticize didn't appear out of thin-air, but sprung forth from their blood.

All those quotes are trying to do is justify the fact that he married a kikess in spite of knowing better.

Hot cultist/witch/pagan/loli/ara/cake/traditional european sabbath/ritual/orgies/ceremonies/magical girls.

And of course, fucked up fertility sex rituals with or without bestiality and traditiona; era-based clothing, and still 2019 with no era/time period tag categories to help find awesome porn on any gallery site.

With a little bible black tier gore/murdersex

>>16425025

>>16425026

>Compare to LoTR, where the main characters are honorable and Sauron is pure evil.

I mean I actually disliked this about LotR, so I won't be able to agree with you on that one. I like morally gray conflicts where there is no "pure evil" side.

>The other, larger, issue with GRRM writing in the epic style is that it needs an ending, a conclusion to the plot and a way to tell the reader the world is in good hands now

First of all, good ending is not some kind of prerequisite. Had the series ended with Ned getting executed and Iron throne being ruled for decades by Joffrey who just keeps being an asshole tyrant, it would be a perfectly valid ending to the story provided he executed it well (which he probably would, as it would not be difficult). The entire thing would then become a tragedy of sorts, with hopes being raised only to come crashing down in the end. I see no reason why he couldn't do that now – he'll probably end up selecting one of the characters to "win" and kill everyone who refuses to submit to him, and it'll be a perfectly valid ending.

Really, it feels as though you believe a story needs a good ending. It does not. One of the reasons why the whole series is popular in the first place is because the "good" characters are getting their asses kicked. No, I really am not interested in seeing the good and honorable knight vanquish the evil tyrant for the 10 millionth time; I will welcome a story where the tyrant wins and has the knight eat his own honorable balls, because it'll be new, it'll be unexpected, it'll give me a tale I haven't read a thousand times already.

>No one actually complains about, as you said, "his pathologic wordiness in descriptions". His descriptions are the best parts, you could practically draw a map of King's Landing from them.

I disagree, his descriptions are boring as shit. I really do not care about an exhaustive list of what foods are on the dinner table, nor do I care to draw a map of King's landing from it. As for the pacing, it is true that it drags on at times, but it's nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. The majority of the slow parts have their purpose.

>>16425065

>GGRM confirmed for a nigger who never actually fucking read LotR

Huh?

It's already Beltane ya goddamn Jew worshipper.

>>16425517

>subversive edginess is "new and unexpected"

>I welcome a shitty ending

>Confusing a criticism of trope-subversion ruining the template of epic fantasy with a demand that "the good guy always has to win"

I rate your post shitforbrains/10. His whole post was about how subverting the classical formula of good triumphing over evil and that only important events are described makes "epic" fantasy boring shit. Edginess of the "bad guy makes good guy eat his own balls" variety which you claim to find so fresh and unexpected is anything but; subverting the moral foundation of story telling is utterly hackneyed and basically the norm nowadays, and stories wallowing in filth and ugliness have been around for as long as there have been authors like GRR Martin who themselves are ugly, filth-spirited wretches with bad character. "Bad endings" where evil triumphs are just unsatisfying trash that only appeal to angsty losers. An ending where goodness prevails, even be it in a pyrrhic victory, is superior in literally every case for epic fantasy.

>>16425788

It's such an inane nitpick you'd think he was saying it as some kind of joke.

>>16421304

Extra credits was better under Dan, not saying much but at least it was watchable.

>>16425970

>Extra credits

>watchable

Please die.

>>16425770

>Higher word count means more expense for the publisher

irrelevant for the reader

>stretches to tension the unwritten contract between author and reader, which is basically

A contract which he managed to uphold despite the length. A few boring passages among many engaging do not ruin a book, anon.

>If your novel's word count breaks higher than Tolkien, C.S.Lewis and most pillars of Western canon, you screwed up.

That is simply a baseless statement. So long as you can uphold the tension, you can write a book a million words long without it being somehow wrong.

>Not when it happens out of nowhere and feels like the kind of wasteful death you see on TV shows like The Wire.

Never seen the Wire so I'm not sure what you reffer to, but twists being unexpected is a positive, not a negative.

>If you really think about any given GRRM story you can imagine several times where his mini-bible could have been split into two books instead of being one giant tome

And I ask who cares? You can put the book down at any point. Hell, I read three of his books in two weeks and really couldn't have cared less whether they'd be one gargantuan tome or be split into a dozen smaller ones.

>>expecting readers to be satisfied with a sad/morose/downer ending

<what is the tragedy genre

>>leading up to a brick wall

Are you genuinely unable to enjoy a "bad" end? I find downer ends quite enjoyable if written well. Is this the desire for the famous "american happy end"?

>>16425776

>"Bad endings" where evil triumphs are just unsatisfying trash that only appeal to angsty losers.

Right, opinion fucking discarded. I guess all the Greek tragedies are unenjoyable trash and only angsty readers preserved it throughout the millenia.

>>16425991

You just say that because you can't accept the fact that we're running out of internets.

>>16425111

that second pic, that is just fucking sad….. on those few occasions I watched GoT because I was really bored, I NEVER, EVER identified with or liked fatass fucktard Sam (and I have few of his traits), Hound for me was the man of skill, guts and flaws that follow every man, more interesting than any other character.

>>16426142

>That's because you've been fed the bullshit narrative that "good vs bad" is simple and simple is bad writing.

<"LET ME TELL YOU WHAT YOU LIKE"

No, anon, I simply do not enjoy a story where I already know the ending after reading the fucking prologue. At no point while reading LotR was I in any doubt that Sauron would lose and the ring would be destroyed. An andventure story should maintain tension within the reader, that's its whole goal (as opposed to, say, comedy where the goal is to make him smile). If I already know who is going to win, and when it's extremely unlikely the hero will die at any point before achieving his objective, there is no damn tension. "Oh gee, the heroes are cornered by hordes of orcs in Moria, I wonder if they'll prevail or if they'll all get slaughtered and the story will just end right there even though there's like a hundred pages still to go :^)".

>Out of all the shit you choose to defend, this is what you go with?

Out of all the things to dispute, you're going with aa fucking good ending being necessary? I cathegorically refuse; that's the most wrong thing you've said up until now.

>And if you think endings aren't important

Of course they are fucking important, I never said they weren't, but that doesn't mean they need to be "good" (in the moral sense, not quality sense, obviously). If I am writing a depressing story, a depressing ending is far more appropriate than a happy end. Think fucking Lovecraft, the guy in the OP of this very thread, was in the bussiness of giving every story a "good" ending?

>>16421278

C…Chuck Testa?

>>16426206

>"LET ME TELL YOU WHAT YOU LIKE"

Never implied that. I criticized the reason for why you didn't like something. Seriously, go read the Illiad, you might learn some reading comprehension.

>No, anon, I simply do not enjoy a story where I already know the ending after reading the fucking prologue.

Really? Because on the one hand, you can't tell me with a straight face that you knew how LotR was going to end from just reading Gandalf's visit to the shire. On the other hand, anons have been accurately predicting GoT's twists and endings so far. You can predict the ending of any story if you follow character arcs and how a story has been structured this far. This this doesn't make a story bad.

>"Oh gee, the heroes are cornered by hordes of orcs in Moria, I wonder if they'll prevail or if they'll all get slaughtered and the story will just end right there even though there's like a hundred pages still to go :^)".

Because ending the story at Moria with the fellowship being slaughtered by goblins would've been such a good ending. Of course everyone knew they would've lived, the question is how. If you can't enjoy this and need a coin flip on whether or not a story or character ends right then and there, fine. I can't change your opinion. Just know that this same situation is present in GRRM's work and for that matter, every single piece of literature that has conflicts that aren't in the end arc.

>(in the moral sense, not quality sense, obviously)

Ah, that clears things up. I still think a moral ending is better than a amoral for the same reason one anon stated earlier. That reading an entire novel only to be greeted by a wall is dissatisfying and often hack writing.

>>16426206

>An andventure story should maintain tension within the reader, that's its whole goal

Absolutely false. An adventure is about how they live within a moral framework and win, not if they will.

Everything you judge a story by is hipster nihilistic-relativistic-ennui TVtropes bullshit for people slightly above average intelligence but lacking in the effort required to understand anything.

>>16426358

>Never implied that.

But you clearly did. "You only like a thing because you've been brainwashed :^) Here's what non-brainwashed people like. You don't want to be brainwashed, do you? :^)"

>Because on the one hand, you can't tell me with a straight face that you knew how LotR was going to end from just reading Gandalf's visit to the shire.

Alright, maybe not the visit to shire, but the moment the entire journey with the ring starts, the ending is quite clear.

>Because ending the story at Moria with the fellowship being slaughtered by goblins would've been such a good ending.

The point isn't to make it an ending, it is to make the reader think that it MIGHT happen, so that the tension is maintained.

>On the other hand, anons have been accurately predicting GoT's twists and endings so far.

Can't speak for other anons, but I did not expect Ned Stark to actually get executed.

>You can predict the ending of any story if you follow character arcs and how a story has been structured this far

First of all, no, you cannot predict ANY story based on that. Second of all, even if the story isn't completely unpredictable, it very often allows for several equally likely paths, and you do not know which one of them the story will take. But above all, there is a difference between analyzing a story structure to make an educated guess and the story being full on in your face with "villain is basically evil given form, wonder if the hero will beat him or the world will end :^)" kind of plot.

>need a coin flip on whether or not a story or character ends right then and there

Again, anon, the issue isn't leaving the plot to chance, but keeping up the illusion that it is. If, given the events prior to them entering Moria, the reader genuinely entertained the possibility that they indeed might all die there, that the plotline has the possibility to end there with the story instead shifting to something else entirely, then the tension will be significantly higher, even if the events end up being exactly the same. If a story subverts your expectations a few times, you will entertain this possibility. You will know "this writer has already dicked my expectations over a couple times, who says it won't happen now?"

>That reading an entire novel only to be greeted by a wall is dissatisfying and often hack writing.

Again, I do not see how it is a "wall". Think Lovecraft's stories would be better if they ended on a happy note? How about Star Wars – episode 3 (>inb4 read the books not the movies you pleb) ended with the dark side winning – did you consider that to be "the wall"? Good endings have their time and place, but to say ALL endings should be like that is just wrong. An ending usually seeks an aim; a feeling to leave the reader with. Many choose to leave the reader with a happy, content feeling. Some purposefully do not and as such do not seek such an ending.

>>16426418

>The Bran chapters are so fucking long, needless and boring

I'll confess I don't remember them (been a couple years since I read GRRM) so you might be right

>What do Sansa chapters add to the book?

I did enjoy those, though. When it was revealed she's to be used to grab power over the Vale, I got pretty excited.

>What about Cat? What does she add?

Yeah, Cat was pretty shit

>What about Brienne? She does nothing throughout the entire show.

Wouldn't know, I never watched the show. But in the books, she does a lot to develop Jaime's character, IIRC.

>What about Arya, she's still done fucking nothing. Why waste so much time on her dull wandering with the hound when a single chapter would have been enough.

I actually considered her chapters to be some of the best. The part where she murdered her way out the fort using an assassin and the subsequent trials in Braavos (I think it was Braavos) were very entertaining.

>When a writer uses the epic format, there are certain things we need to stick to.

The only thing a writer ever needs to stick to is making sure his writing is engaging to read. Everything else in writing is just a guideline to help you achieve this.

>What is interesting about Westeros?

The politics, of course.

>The hero serves as the entryway through which the reader views the world. It's about what the hero experiences, of course the hero will win because a book would show the best and worst the world has to offer. That's why the hero wins at the end, because the best is saved for last. Everytime anyone makes this point, it's as if you can't sit still for more than 10 minutes

Nigger what are you on about? I don't give a single solitary shit about the world, neither did I give a shit in LotR, neither in Star Wars, neither in any other book. What I care about is the story, the tale, the events and conflicts that are being portrayed. The world is there as a setting; a prop to support the tale, to make it more interesting and allow for a wider variety of conflicts and events, but it is definitely NOT the centerpiece of the book or its goal. The world is there for the story, not the other way around.

>Oh gee, it's not like they lose their most powerful member of the party in Moria, is it :^)?

You mean the member they did not need whatsoever as all of them (save for the hobbits) were one man armies? Gee, what a great loss, completely threw the story out the rails

>>16426473

You think stories are mental exercises for entertainment, don't you?

>>16426413

>The point isn't to make it an ending, it is to make the reader think that it MIGHT happen, so that the tension is maintained.

Constant tension isn't good, it's strenous.

>Can't speak for other anons, but I did not expect Ned Stark to actually get executed.

Utter brainlet tbh

>First of all, no, you cannot predict ANY story based on that. Second of all, even if the story isn't completely unpredictable, it very often allows for several equally likely paths, and you do not know which one of them the story will take. But above all, there is a difference between analyzing a story structure to make an educated guess and the story being full on in your face with "villain is basically evil given form, wonder if the hero will beat him or the world will end :^)" kind of plot.

Implying you do any analyzing of the plot. All SoI&F do is jack off about how "gray" every character and how there is no good or bad side, completely failing to realise that this leaves very little in attachment to the characters. When Ned died I did feel something, same with the Red Wedding, if only for the sheer quantity of characters killed off, but Tywin was nothing, it was just, "oh cool, he's dead now".

>If a story subverts your expectations a few times, you will entertain this possibility. You will know "this writer has already dicked my expectations over a couple times, who says it won't happen now?"

Because subversions are shit. It's not hard to subvert, in fact it's one of the easiest things to do. Almost all comedy relies on subverting your expectations to make a unpredictable and therefore funny scenario. Look at Star Wars episode 8. That was a fantastic subversion of Star Wars. It was also the worst Star Wars film to date, surpassing the Wookie Christmas Special.

> Good endings have their time and place, but to say ALL endings should be like that is just wrong

Great way to take something out of context. ALL fantasy epics should have good endings, not ALL endings.

>Some purposefully do not and as such do not seek such an ending.

Some choose to be shit on purpose, I agree that SoI&F is one of them.

The issue with SoI&F is that it doesn't stick to it's own rules. It's a world where honesty, honor and being good don't pay. Where being unscrupulous, lying and hungry for power do. So why does Daenerys do so well? Why is Sansa not dead? Why is Jon still alive? Why is the that girl who is Theon's Sister alive? Why is Sam alive? These characters are all lawful good who go out of their way to help others, yet it's established that doesn't work, so why are they successful? The characters who would be the best at what they do are either unsuccesful or dead. The only one that is still doing well is Littlefinger but GRRM said in an interview he will die. Cersei is humiliated, her child dead. Joeffrey is dead. Frey is irrelevant, Bolton is barely controlling the North. GRRM is schizophrenic in his writing style. We get epic style adventures with Jon, noble ruling with Dany, then it switches to a politics-sim midway with Cersei and back again. These styles should be intertwined with each other, not a jarring split with each character.

>>16426473

>I'll confess I don't remember them (been a couple years since I read GRRM) so you might be right

Glad we agree

>I did enjoy those, though. When it was revealed she's to be used to grab power over the Vale, I got pretty excited.

What about all the pre-Joeffrey death chapters though?

>Yeah, Cat was pretty shit

So why are they there? Nigga this is what people mean when they say it has pacing issues.

>Wouldn't know, I never watched the show. But in the books, she does a lot to develop Jaime's character, IIRC.

Show is dogshit, don't do it. What does that add though? It doesn't relate to the grand narrative in any way because there is no grand narrative since it's a subversion of traditional epics.

>I actually considered her chapters to be some of the best. The part where she murdered her way out the fort using an assassin and the subsequent trials in Braavos (I think it was Braavos) were very entertaining.

Reminder she's 9-12 in the books.

>The politics, of course.

Yeah, god damn I sure love when a solid quarter of the characters don't relate to them in any way. They should be removed. There is no reason for them to exist.

>The world is there for the story

The world and the story co-exist. If the story is dogshit, the best world can't save it and vice-versa.

>You mean the member they did not need whatsoever as all of them (save for the hobbits) were one man armies? Gee, what a great loss, completely threw the story out the rails

Yeah, that's why the next conflict they have they get split up and lose a party member.

>>16426418

>2nd pic

The goyim are deserving of all the contempt they receive.

>>16426517

>Constant tension isn't good, it's strenous.

Yeah, that's why you have something called slow pacing, which you put after the fast paced action scenes, which are supposed to be full of tension. And we are talking about even these action scenes not holding tension.

>completely failing to realise that this leaves very little in attachment to the characters.

Of course it does. I got attached to plenty of characters.

>but Tywin was nothing, it was just, "oh cool, he's dead now".

Well if you empathised with Starks, you probably considered Tywin a villain. Makes sense you won't be in tears over a fucking villain dying.

>Because subversions are shit.

There are good subversions and bad ones. Same as with following tropes - sometimes it works, other times it does not.

>ALL fantasy epics should have good endings, not ALL endings.

I disagree, as I've already said and explained countless times. Even a fantasy epic does not necessarily need to end on a positive note. Again, look at Star Wars episode 3

>It's a world where honesty, honor and being good don't pay.

Nigger that's not what the fucking thing is about. How do you go into thinking that just because something doesn't always work, it must never work? SoI&F tries to show ruthlessness of politics; honor is essentially portrayed as a tactic that sometimes does work, sometimes does not depending on how you use it. Some people care about virtues like gratitude and honor, some do not, which is reflected in how different characters react to it. Ned Stark went with honor every time like a lawful good protag should, and lost his head over it because using honor on people who do not give a rat's ass about it is fucking stupid; that was the fucking message of the execution: "having the right alignment will not save you, politics will". That's why all the characters you names survived: they were either good at politics or were used by someone good a politics (most notably Sansa) or were just not playing the politics game and thus irrelevant (Sam).

>We get epic style adventures with Jon, noble ruling with Dany, then it switches to a politics-sim midway with Cersei and back again. These styles should be intertwined with each other, not a jarring split with each character.

That's because the narrative reflects the character being in focus. It's third person limited, not third person omniscient, so of course personality of character bleeds into the narrative.

>Yeah, god damn I sure love when a solid quarter of the characters don't relate to them in any way.

They actually pretty much always do, if you actually keep up with who they are and what they do. It sheds a lot of light into why some events happen, why a character did X instead of Y and so on. Of course, you probably won't appreciate it if you aren't into the whole politics aspect of it.

>The world and the story co-exist. If the story is dogshit, the best world can't save it and vice-versa.

No, the world is very distinctly subordinate to the story. You can make a good story even with a shit world, it'll just be harder.

>Yeah, that's why the next conflict they have they get split up and lose a party member.

Yeah, another one they didn't fucking need, since the party is chock-full of murdermachines. Fellowship could probably have cut Legolas and Gimli entirely, since they add very little to the story.

>>16425991

Watchable isn't the most glowing review, mate.

>>16426413

>it's impossible to enjoy a story if you already know who wins

Bullshit. Most great works of literature have had easily-predictable outcomes. What makes them good is how those outcomes come about, not whether they occur at all.

>>16427059

I always found this one in particular very interesting

>>16430484

The Witcher 3 also features an event that takes place on the local version of Walpurgis Night, on a place they call Bald Mountain.

They don't use the music though.