/v/ - Video Games

Discs are cheaper and can hold larger data storage over cartridges. That's the fact since the mid-90s.

>>16374673

<you can keep saved games on them

As long as the battery allows it

<they will last for a much longer time

The metal part that goes in contact with the console gets rusted or damaged by use so not quite

They have their advantages but they aren't perfect

>>16374673

Because they're expensive and don't hold as much. Nintendo still doesn't have their 64GB Switch carts ready yet. Even then, we've already seen publishers be cheap about it. LA Noire could have fit on a 32GB cart but Rockstar were cheap fucks and put it on a 16GB cart and made the customers download the other 11GBs.

>>16374690

>As long as the battery allows it

>flash memory

How fast do PSX discs die? Because I know that Gameboy cartridges are now all starting to die.

>>16374748

Why would the cartridge die? Are you actually thinking about the SRAM battery?

>>16374690

All the downsides could be addressed by using different internal hardware and really revising what cartridges are and do. Using nand memory for example, swapping out metal contact with something better (fuck we can do close range power and data transfers by now, imagine that - no contacts at all). There's just no reason to innovate in this area though. Speaking from the perspective of nintendo who are really the only ones still using cartridges.

>>16374673

It costs like less than 1$ to stamp a BD, that's why.

>>16374673

An SSD inside of your machine is the best video game format.

>>16374772

>Why would the cartridge die? Are you actually thinking about the SRAM battery?

Yes and the same thing applies to the SNES. I'm not saying that cartridges are bad or anything but I wonder if they're more durable than the discs the PSX used.

>>16374888

Not to mention far cheaper. A 1tb sd card only costs 20$ at max I fink

>>16374673

this

I can't understand why consoles didn't keep carts as alternative format for collectors, making a cart slot to the console doesn't even cost anything

>>16374814

Faster load times are pretty tempting. Load times got pretty stretched lately and it kills the experience (tho limitations breed innovation, kinda like the sprite geniuses that the NES bred).

Technically, (imh uninformed opinion) load times depends in three things at least; data transfer from the disk, RAM filling according to hardware architechture, and game finesse to design a clever algorithm or system to reduce load necessity.

I think, that aside from the conservation pros of usb drives (or similar), disks remain cheaper. It kills me inside to say this, but disks are here to stay. No technical pros aliviate the idea of cheaper components (unless the buyer is willing to pay ;-) )

Fucking kill me now, blowing sega carts were the fucking shit in the day. The absolute fucking shit fuck shit fuck ass fuck. Shit, I miss those fucking blowimg days

>>16374740

>>16374893

> A 1tb sd card only costs 20$ at max I fink

Bull fucking shit. And look how slow they are. My fucking spinning drives transfer faster than that.

>>16374899

>Faster load times are pretty tempting.

Games don't even load off the disc anymore though. They are installed onto the HDD/SDD, which is as fast or faster than flash media.

>>16374888

flash memory is getting bigger yea, but when it comes to mass printing a game, discs will always be cheaper for a publisher. Not to mention the console manufacturer sets a certain storage limit per cartridge

>512MB max for DS cartridges

>4GB max for Vita cartridges

>8GB max for 3DS cartridges

I heard the Switch allow up the 32GB cartridges. But I've seen publishers forcing you to download game content on Switch because the cartridge they used has a lower size, to lower the printing cost

>>16374893

>1tb flash memory

>20 dollardos

The upcoming 1tb microsd is gonna cost 450 bucks at release, surely you jest.

>>16374918

You are absolutely right. My bad.

Then load times depend on hardware architechture and clever progamming by soy fueled transgender monkeys (an oximoron)

>>16374922

Diminishing returns, I guess.

>>16374919

>>16374903

>>16374901

It seems I was mistaken. Not sure what I was thinking. I know for sure that expensive 100gb SD cards from 10 years ago experienced a price change of about -200%.

>>16374899

>blowing on carts

>YEAH IT WAS THE FUCKING SHIT WHEN GAMES DIDN'T FUCKING WORK AND YOU COULD DAMAGE YOUR CARTS BY BLOWING IN THEM BECAUSE WE WERE FUCKING RETARDED KIDS WHO DIDN'T KNOW FUCKING BETTER SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETT

Fucking kill yourself you posturing gen z faggot.

>>16374684

HDDs and internet are cheaper and can hold larger data storage over disk.

>>16374916

https://www.delkin.com/technology/flash-endurance/

It's evaluation for embedded, not for game cartridges, where you only write data when you save game, and you don't do it constantly.

And I don't think we know what type of flash memory Nintendo or Sony uses.

>>16375218

>HDDs

They have moving parts and a more limited lifespan than an optical disc.

>internet

Nigger, are you actually advocating for streaming shit?

>>16374899

>Shit, I miss those fucking blowimg days

fag

From the title I thought you meant SNES style cartridges. Those suck. Flashcarts are pretty good though tbh. IIRC they use a different flash than thumb drives/sd cards so they last longer

>>16375379

>I always got my brother to do it when I was younger cus I was retarded and he could do it without spiting

I hereby award you with gayest post of the day.

>>16374772

The batteries are replaceable, but I imagine that it wouldn't be cheap.

>>16375384

>be 5 years old and somehow not be retarded

Okay anon, I guess the sun shined out of your arse at the age.

>>16375392

Don't reply to him, he's just mad that his brother never blew him.

>>16375392

>if I was a retarded 5 year old then everyone was!

>>16375400

Dubs has it, anon jealous he got no blow

>>16375228

>They have moving parts and a more limited lifespan than an optical disc.

Only if you don't use discs. Anyway HDDs are cheaper even if the costs of replacement of failing discs are accounted. And storing usable archives on optical discs is huge pain.

>Nigger, are you actually advocating for streaming shit?

Distributing via internet. Not paying mortar and brick store jews premium for delivering pieces of plastic (and censoring games they want to sell).

>>16374694

This fucking sucks. And nintendo is also at fault for 1) allowing this along with the 'internet connection required' warning in the box and 2) not making those fucking 64GB carts already.

There's even a few PS4 games that do this kind of shit as well, like THPS5 (due to release rush) and CoD WWII (which has like 5GBs on disc outright).

Vita on the other hand didn't have this issue, and their carts really are convenient since once inserted they simply get mounted and you can play. Sadly very few devs made use of the internal cart space option, which is handy for not only saves, but DLC and updates too. (Muramasa Rebirth is one rare case where it's used for those things).

>>16375418

Digital distribution is cancer. And stores don't get any say about censoring games - they're just resellers. The most they can do is refuse to stock a game.

Physical media have the 'bu-but muh disc rot/flash damage' shitters, but assuming you know how to use the damn things they will last you. And with pretty much every system you can dump carts now (3DS, Vita, even the Switch).

Meanwhile, digital distribution nets you a license, not even the actual product, requires internet to some degree to auth/launch and if the store gets mad they'll pull out games, censor them and outright fuck the devs in the meantime. (in that regard, Sony is now the new king of assholes, but Steam's downright contradictory actions aren't far off from that).

>>16374673

Sure grandpa

>>16375228

>and a more limited lifespan

That's not actually true in regards to archiving. A typical DVD or Blu-ray has a way shorter reliable lifespan than a HDD, and if you buy high quality discs, they will offer way worse price per TB compared to HDDs. HDDs fail from active hours, which will be very low if you only use them to load them with content once and then rewrite the content every few years to prevent degradation.

>>16374673

>load times

But the game just gets installed onto your HDD/SSD nowadays, from where it loads even faster than it would from a cartridge. Storing the game on the machine itself also allows for online updates and patches without having to worry about the size. They don't have advantage over disc in this area.

Also the main reason is price. A company isn't going to cut its margin just to give you a cartridge instead of disc. Hell, it's unwilling to give you a disc instead of digital for this very reason as well. If there was enough of a push, you might perhaps get an edition of a game on a cartridge, but it'd cost $100 instead of $60 – it wouldn't just be the cartridge you'd be paying for, but also the administrative process behind the whole thing and of course even more margin.

>>16374893

If you found a 1tb SD card for $20 it's a chinese scam you see all over the internet and it will probably only hold 64GB at best.

>>16375479

It really is bullshit. But I'm sure if Rockstar weren't allowed to cheap out with the 16GB cart then the game would have never come to Switch. While I see that as nothing of value being lost, I'm sure it was a big deal to Nintendo to be able to list Rockstar as a developer that's put a game on Switch.

>>16375479

>Sadly very few devs made use of the internal cart space option, which is handy for not only saves, but DLC and updates too. (Muramasa Rebirth is one rare case where it's used for those things).

Persona 4 Golden and EDF3 Portable also did the same thing.

That said, it wasnt rare for some Vita games to have large DLCs or updates, increasing the game size to something like between 4GB and 6GB in total

>Digital distribution is cancer.

The main issue I have with digital distribution is how it's easy for a game to be pulled off a store without any notice and warning. And dont get me on the topic of first-print DLCs, god what a mess those things are.

>>16375720

Did it? P4G saves on the memcard. It even has the '5120 KB' required warning on the box. (or are you talking about the JP version maybe?)

Another game with grw0: partition that I remember is Mortal Kombat.

And yes, I fucking hate the volatility of digital only releases. Just look at Scott Pilgrim, a game killed because the composers decides to bitch out.

>>16374673

Because they want you to waste money constantly on products that won't last long. Companies want you to buy again and again the same products, forever.

All companies are enemies of customers.

>>16374916

MRAM when?

>>16375390

It's cheap as fuck lmao

>>16374673

>I wonder why

Are you retarded or just ignorant?

>>16374673

Except cost is still a huge factor. Blu-ray discs cost maybe 20¢ per disc and store up to 128GB, while 64GB and 128GB SD cards are roughly $10/$20 respectively. (I can't find the manufacturing cost vs the sale price of the latter, but even if it's half the sale price that's still way more expensive than optical.) Of course companies are going to stick with the cheaper format. This means not having to worry about compressing data, cutting data, or raising the product cost due to a more expensive storage medium.

Cartridges are still used in handheld consoles because the physical size is more convenient, the limited device specs means games will be smaller anyway, and handheld consoles games are typically designed differently from home console games. A console could allow cartridge and optical to give developers the choice and use benefits as needed, but then the console would just add cost for another drive.

I love cartridges for the faster load times and higher durability, but until current year games are optimized for storage space, they're not making a comeback outside of Nintendo.

>>16375390

I bought a 4-pack of CR2025 batteries for $10 USD. (How long they last depends on the cartridge and game.) If you don't go the soldering route, you can go the cheap route and just cut the old battery off the connector then use electrical tape to hold the new one in place. (Soldering new tabs or installing a proper holder will look cleaner. It just costs a few extra dollars per cartridge.)

>optical media is shit

Anon, this is news to exactly no one. SSDs are effectively giant cartridges. The only thing holding us back was being able to put a lot of memory in a reasonably sized device.

Cassette tapes are the best video game format.

>>16376082

AYO, HOL UP

>>16376034

>Also physical media is a relic of the past Always on and mobile data are the future.

<owning shit old and there for bad

Kill yourself gen z nigger.

>>16376159

*smacks lips*

>>16376588

If it is, then I'm sure our friends at Soyny™ will be sure to let us know.

>>16375720

>And dont get me on the topic of first-print DLCs, god what a mess those things are.

Also CE exclusive ones. Or stuff like PS3 themes that were removed from availability for whatever reason. Some of those still don't have ripped versions.

>>16376633

I'd like to know why you seem to think there's a difference besides the type of ROM being used.

>>16374893

>A 1tb sd card only costs 20$ at max

What?

>>16376034

>Physical media is a relic of the past

Yet most movies made today are based on books.

Short answer: Microsoft already sunk the cost to Sony for BlurayTM technology in the xbone

Long answer Blurays as an element when it comes to storage has royally and completely fucked the state of physical game media and realistically it's cheaper for blurays (from the perspective of publishers), and additionally, it's really better for publishers overall to not physical anything and try to squeeze the few years they got of licensed not sold goyim before the whole shit finally implodes on itself since licensed not sold isn't even legal.

Physical media is the last defense against the zog menace from controlling all of video games and the direction of the industry.

>>16377024

Are you not aware of the fucked state of Optical Media?

>>16376644

Cartridges, real cartridges I mean, can contain custom video or sound chips. They can also contain onboard memory, all of which allows you to incrementally upgrade consoles allowing them to stay relevant longer and it doesn't and it gives developers wiggle room on the tech specs. This doesn't even get into custom sensors like what Boktai used.

>>16377026

Tell me about your concerns.

>>16377039

We've got one high capacity format, controlled by sony, who essentially have a monopoly because "legally" no one can make an alternative because of how the copyright for the tech is, and with all the extra content they can cram on a bluray to charge you extra for, it's deeply unlikely that there will be roll back to dvd capacity at any point.

>>16377043

How is it controlled by Sony? How do they exercise this control?

>>16377058

If you don't play ball with sony, you can't read blurays without unauthorized software since the hardware has a software check before it can actually read the disk, and apparently some dipshit court actually gave them legal credence to sue. Despite, much like licensed not sold, it violates the first sale doctrine but that doesn't apply to software ;))

>>16377068

So you can't use software like imgburn to manage blu-ray media?

>>16377075

There are unofficial drivers for Bluray drives, but legally it's kind of a fucked area to be in, especially as a hardware distributor, because on some level they technically would have the right to sue because IP laws are fucking broke.

>>16377082

Is it like HDMI where you technically need the license but tens of thousands of products get away with it anyway? If so I'm not seeing your concern as legitimate.

>>16377043

>We've got one high capacity format, controlled by sony, who essentially have a monopoly because "legally" no one can make an alternative because of how the copyright for the tech is

They could make an alternative you retard.

>If you don't play ball with sony, you can't read blurays without unauthorized software since the hardware has a software check before it can actually read the disk, and apparently some dipshit court actually gave them legal credence to sue.

See how retarded you are? You think an alternative means still using the same technology. An alternative would have nothing to do with bluray.

>>16374690

>As long as the battery allows it

this isn't the early 2000s anymore, we have good flash memory

>>16374673

>they can't be scratched

>they will last for a much longer time

The two main reasons. Planned obsolescence affects all levels of physical technology, and many levels of software. They can make more money selling the same game to you twice than they can selling it to you once. This is partly why they don't let you store or backup your console games on the console itself, the other reason is "piracy".

>>16377602

The closest alternatives we got (That aren't made by sony and don't have the same technology) are protein discs and maybe M-Disc, but even then high capacity storage already made games worse since publishers and large studios already cram for the capacity of the disks, and it's gotten out of hand to the point where even with blurays you still need to download 50-100GB of extraneous bullshit to play your games, usually regional content that's padding.

>You think an alternative means still using the same technology.

No I don't you literal retard, I was explaining the issue specifically with bluray when it comes to sony and potentially hardware that's already been rolled out.

>>16375400

tbh my bro did when I was 6 and he was 4 when we were both getting raped

>>16376627

Hey I had multiple people take the bait.

>>16377753

>Planned obsolescence

Remember when Microsoft got in trouble because it looked like they were designing the 360 to scratch disks on the lens?