0e3d1e No.16238597
>game presents me with a moral quandary
>Is it better to murder a vulnerable and scared little girl for a bigger immediate payout of superpowered stem cells.
>or to safely extract the evil slug from her body, curing her zombie state, for a smaller payout but, curing more little girls also periodically rewards you with 200 stem cells and a highly desirable superpower. The ultimate tradeoff being that you will end up with 280 less cells by the end of the game but you have more valuable material wealth, anyway.
<So do you pick the one that provides the greater reward incentive and lets you keep a clean conscience or the one where you murder every child you encounter in exchange for being able to buy, maybe, one more plasmid at the vending machine?
OH NO! I FEEL SO CONFLICTED WHAT DO I DO!
Where can I find some more artistic masterpieces that make Aristotle look like a retard so that I can be an even taller tower of insight?
5f8fac No.16238607
>>16238597
Choosing to do the better thing is sometimes profitable you know. Or are you suggesting the devs should have used Bioshock's status as a something isn't real as a chance to make it unrealistic?
cc092c No.16238611
>>16238597
The point of these games aren't to be scrutinized this deeply you turbo autist.
Tell me when you see children playing tic tac toe do you just kick the children and shit on their face for playing an expoitable game?
Anyway, faggot, Try Elex or Fable 2.
f32f8f No.16238612
>>16238597
I think Starcraft 2 probably had a morality system while in development, but they decided against keeping it. There are always these missions where you are given a choice but hero boy Raynor always makes the right choice, so there ends up being no morality.
Bugs the shit out of me. If the player was just a commander in the story it would have been fine.
33c801 No.16238620
>All this autistic, grandstanding shit to say a mechanic is imbalanced
7b97ce No.16238652
Maybe it's to show that doing good always pays off more?
6346f8 No.16238656
>OP asks for more shit games so he can be angry for longer
Are you a masochist? Go play good games, nigger.
3cd1a8 No.16238676
>>16238611
Bullshit you stupid faggot.
Bioshock games are the definition of deconstructionism.
The kike developer has even said as much about Bioshock 1 & 2. 2 being a deconstruction and a "the tea party" movement and constitutional conservatives in America, with 1 being a deconstruction/critique of Ayn Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged.
So when liberals, kikes and Marxists all praise the games as some kind of genius philosophical statement, they're going to inevitably face deconstructionism of their own.
This argument of
>"lel turbo autists it's just a game guys stop over analyzing"
I'd the same kike move that John Stewart would pull
>"lel were just a comedy show goy don't take us seriously goy"
All the while the kike Marxist media sit there praising the show as some kind of bastion of journalistic integrity.
The games are making a philosophical statement, full stop. It's not "autistic" to critique or analyze that statement.
9e842e No.16238685
>>16238597
I bet you dollars to doughnuts that it was originally a much steeper price to do the right thing at one point in development, but got switched around (probably very early on) to keep it "fun." Of course it could be like these anons said
>>16238607
>>16238652
and was meant to just be a more literal reward for the good deed. If that's the case I bet it was the gameplay team doubting the art team's ability to make them sympathetic enough for players to care. I'll admit, I like games that really challenge me to take the moral high road. When I pull it off after struggling through, I feel even better for it.
505b5f No.16238687
>>16238611
>Tell me when you see children playing tic tac toe do you just kick the children and shit on their face for playing an expoitable game?
Who doesn't?
cc092c No.16238711
>>16238676
I was typing out my post and then browser crashed and I lost everything.
You're a big fat poopy meanie head. Go play the games I recommended. Elex, fable 2
7b97ce No.16238720
>>16238685
I don't know, little abused girls seem pretty sympathetic to me. I really didn't like Bioshock 2 but I liked the parts where you picked up the Little Sisters and put them on your shoulder.
29a4ae No.16238749
>>16238597
Better to let them harvest your Adam the SFM way.
5ab074 No.16238752
>>16238620
>6 lines is autistic grandstanding
29a4ae No.16238753
>>16238611
>unironically recommending Gable
Fag.
06ddca No.16238757
just do whatever you want, either way the game will be just as easy to beat.
426561 No.16238766
>>16238611
>when you see children playing tic tac toe do you just kick the children and shit on their face
I kick children and shit on their face regardless as to whether or not they are playing tic tac toe.
24f9cf No.16238775
In the end it doesn't matter since you kill Atlas anywho.
09f4e2 No.16238814
>>16238752
Every time I see one of these videos I wonder what he works as, it seems he works at something you need some really weird math
2f17dd No.16238841
>goy you can't have a free economy and lots of rights, see this make believe example that is taken to a ridiculous degree and didn't work because we wrote it that way including a magical compoud that grants superpowers and makes turn into crazy mutants if they don't get their fix, oy vey
fe081d No.16238874
>>16238597
Have you heard of a little hidden gem called Fallout 4 anon? It contains some truly deep moral conundrums involving consequences of liberal use of WMD's on major American urban centers and patricide.
5ab074 No.16238880
>>16238874
Patricide? I remember plenty of filicide
fe081d No.16238910
>>16238880
But is it truly filicide when you commit murder of a man known as "The Father".
:bigthink:
cbc752 No.16238917
>>16238685
>I bet you dollars to doughnuts that it was originally a much steeper price to do the right thing at one point in development
Actually…
Bioshock was never suppose to have a morality system in the first place. However, 2K forced Levine to implament it because it was the "hot thing" at the time. Originally the good ending was suppose to be the only ending.
a9cb55 No.16238930
The Talos Principle is a cool game although I disagree with it's message.
60ef3f No.16238933
>>16238927
>morality is subjective, do what you want with nothing as long as involved parties consent
>morality is subjective, unless I don't like thing, then it's objective.
>wtf, don't read bible or become a magic mutant on crack, stop or I'll kill you.
He was a retarded lolberg but wasn't fat, and probably didn't fuck dogs
cdef84 No.16238962
>>16238927
>follows a jewish ideology that is objectively harmful
No, dumbass.
5291bb No.16238967
>>16238597
Without precognizance the player's choices are as follows:
>Save the girl for a strict disadvantage.
>Kill the girl for an immediate reward.
With that same line of logic there shouldn't even be any choice in games whatsoever.
After all, you can just be precognizant of all the consequences of each choice through following a guide, and as such you can just choose the better option in every situation for the optimal result. Therefore, you can eliminate all need of choice and saving the player the trouble of experiencing that pesky content. For that matter, why not add in an autopilot mode? If you're just precognizant of all the content, then why even play the game? It will effectively just play itself at that point anyway!
You fucking retard.
60ef3f No.16238975
>>16238967
>save 3 (not that much effort or time spent playing)
>get a reward that gives you more than if you had harvested all three
51df70 No.16238980
>>16238927
No, what kind of dipshit builds a art deco metropolis on the bottom of the ocean? For a fraction of the resources involved in it's construction, he could have raised an army of PMC and taken over some small shithole country that nobody gives a damn about and turned that into his own personal capitalistic Outer Heaven which he could reign over as a plutocratic king. Instead, the retard tries to build a permanent and thriving economy in one of the most hostile and difficult environments imaginable because "muh lazzie faire" and because it was close to resources.
Oh, and hey, while we're at it - let's give everybody magical powers which is essentially writing the power to kill everyone at any time into the DNA of even the lowliest rungs of comically oppressed society because gimmie dem shekels under the guise of freedumb.
9e842e No.16238991
>>16238720
That's what I thought too, but I've no idea what goes through a dev's mind.
>>16238917
Seriously? Well shit, I guess that makes sense too, despite being the opposite sort of development turn I expected. That's some next level cheap hack writing there.
>>16238975
You wouldn't know that your first time through, though. If you save the first three and get a reward, you didn't harvest them so you couldn't know (without just looking it up, which was the other anon's point). But if you harvested three and then saved three and got a reward, then that's just the player learning a lesson through experience. It's not completely obvious the absolute totals of Adam you get while you're playing blind, a first-time player wouldn't even know how many Little Sisters there even were or what the ultimate consequences of saving/killing them might be.
cbc752 No.16239034
>>16238933
>>16238980
Don't forget that what started the guy's decent into madness is burning down his entire personal forest (Which he bought, he didn't actually grow it), rather than fight the government (Because the guy has enough money to do things such as buy an entire forest and build an entire city at the bottom of the sea, so he could have carried it on the legal action for decades, OR funded the campaign for a politician who wouldn't step over people's rights) for attempting to take "his" land away illegally.
2f17dd No.16239054
>>16238927
He was a strawman.
d03a1b No.16239078
>>16239034
I mean, to be fair, trying to tie up the government over an eminent domain claim isn't something you can do for a very long time. You're really only looking at six months of running them in circles until they get some pinhead to come along and swear that it'll generate jobs, business, and revenue. Technically, all of those things would be true if they paid you "fair market value" for the wooded land, cut it all down, and dropped a hideous commercial district on it.
Of course, they don't even have to get the pinhead to provide plans for that kind of thing, because imminent domain can also be used to claim land for building a public park or national woodland preservation or whatever.
cbc752 No.16239122
>>16239078
Looking it up, though, only state governments have the right to "take land away" from the private citizens, and, even then, they have to draw up an entire legislature explaining what the land will be used for, how the acquisition will be beneficial, and how they plan to justly compensate the current owner (Even to the point of giving him a whole 'nother forest as the "compensation"), otherwise the entire thing can be thrown out.
cc092c No.16239125
f4a4d0 No.16239154
>>16238927
He was quite literally designed to be wrong. He's an ancap strawman who does dump shit antithetical to his idealogoly so the dev can just shit on the idealogoly in general. It's pretty clear that Levine and the other bioshock writers are kind of retarded and have no place actually critiquing political systems. It's not like ancaps are that hard to make look retarded anyway.
d03a1b No.16239158
>>16239122
Government officials are paper-pushers of the least beneficial sort. This is their entire job. It's what they're doing all day when you're working, or jerking off to hentai if you're a NEET. Going through the motions and then getting the aforementioned pinhead to back it up is child's play for these kinds of useless people.
Yes, they have to pay you for it, hence "fair market value," which does not allow for the owner to set the price as they would when seeking to sell the land they own. It means they send a surveyor out to make an estimate, and that estimate is what they intend to give you.
As for how it can be beneficial, again, I have to point out that all they have to do is say, "lol, it's a park now." They have to present arguments about how everything will be awesome when they're doing it for a factory or a commercial district, but not so much when it's supposed to be for a park.
t. landowner who got about three-quarters of what I paid for the woods I used to play in as a kid
b15165 No.16239178
>>16238597
Fucking kid should stab you in the back later, that would make it more interesting
66aea2 No.16239213
>>16238597
To this day people still argue about which faction in Fallout NV was the best, but most seem to have settled on House.
If you know the subtext and you're willing play it for more than just a check-off on your backlog then NieR Automata has some interesting points.
The writing in the Witcher was definitely made more accessible in 3 but I wouls still say that the trilogy is worth playing. Purely from a narrative standpoint I wouls say that 2 is the best. 1 had some interesting moral problems, but I'm pretty sure that the script was translated from Polish to English by a Polish speaker and never edited by a native English speaker to sound more natural.
>>16238611
Fable TLC and 2 were a lot of fun, but I wouldn't call them deep at all. If you want to get drunk and vomit in front of a crowd which was previously cheering you on, or kick children for being little shits then it's perfect, but nothing ever got my noggin joggin.
277752 No.16239219
>>16239125
I don't remember it well but humanity is fucked and you're a lone robot who was made to be as human as possible. The talos principle was about finding that human. I don't remember the message but I'd advise playing it. I quite liked the tower, thought it was funny how the big guy would freak out when you enter it and disappear for an hour.
>>16239213
>door guy tells you to be evil
>eat 50 live chicks
>not evil enough
What a game.
277752 No.16239224
>>16239219
>The talos principle was about finding that human
Robot not human.
7f9b41 No.16239231
>>16238927
>andrew-yang.png
What did reality mean by thi
3c283f No.16239278
>>16238611
Except during the inevitable comparisons to System Shock 2 (which the devs invited) people are going to address the customization aspect.
In SS2 you're going to miss a lot of upgrades and there is SOME replay value in choosing different upgrades. In Bioshock you can miss just a few, and they honestly aren't that useful anyway. No one is going through it again just to use Cyclone Trap 3.
Did anyone use security bullseye or cyclone trap except during the part where your plasmids are randomly swapped?
1e7b5f No.16239290
>>16238980
>he could have raised an army of PMC and taken over some small shithole country that nobody gives a damn about and turned that into his own personal capitalistic Outer Heaven which he could reign over as a plutocratic king.
This gives me an idea for another thread.
60ef3f No.16239295
>>16239278
I don't remember any plasmids other than fire, shock, and telekinesis.
971209 No.16239297
I still think it's funny anyone anywhere at any time ever thought a game about shooting magic sea slug piss addicts while ripping off the plot of a Batman cartoon episode was ever intellectually stimulating in any capacity. Remember when that Ebert fag said games aren't art and every think skinned faggot journo picked this fucking game of all things as a counterexample? What a joke.
3615e7 No.16239323
>>16238841
But anon, your lots of rights allow the goy haters in to begin with.
60ef3f No.16239336
>>16238841
>that grants superpowers and makes turn into crazy mutants if they don't get their fix
Like meth or crack cocaine?
971209 No.16239338
>>>/v/16239323
I know you guys over on /intl/ don't actually read the shit you try to push to demoralize and D&C other boards but part of the clauses for literally any freedom related documents or philosophical texts will highlight the necessity to remove anyone who threatens freedom itself. This includes economic parasites like Jews.
60ef3f No.16239342
>>16239338
>any freedom related documents or philosophical texts will highlight the necessity to remove anyone who threatens freedom itself.
And any real life example will highlight how you can't be bothered to do even that properly.
How's your 2nd Ammendment?
Freedom is nice, but without a strong sense of duty you'll use it to masturbate all day and grow fat.
496a96 No.16239344
>>16239336
I didn’t know taking meth could make me shoot bees from my veins.
cbc752 No.16239348
>>16239297
>Remember when that Ebert fag said games aren't art and every think skinned faggot journo picked this fucking game of all things as a counterexample? What a joke.
That's because the artistic value games have relies solely on the gameplay, and these idiot journos and pseudo-intellectuals don't want to comprehend that because of how they were laughed out of more "respectable" fields of entertainment.
<Such as movies
971209 No.16239353
>>>/v/16239342
Look how it immediately assumes anyone making fun of it is American. Look how all of it's posts are D&C and nothing of substance.
3615e7 No.16239367
>>16239353
Well? Can you disprove the assertions of that other anon?
d03a1b No.16239369
>>16239342
That would be a means of removing anyone who threatens freedom itself, as an amendment to the Constitution, which had more than a few nods to the necessity to remove anyone who threatens freedom itself. You know the difference. Please stop trying to turn this into a my-country-is-better-than-yours shitflinging contest.
94be47 No.16239517
>>16238685
that reminds me too much of real life though
c0f163 No.16239762
A lot of people think Sonic the Hedgehog is about environmentalism. The obvious idea of an animal saving the green hills of an untouched island from evil scientist man coming in and putting all the animals in robots while setting up factories everywhere. While you can read environmentalism into the story, it actually goes much deeper than that once you examine the core of the story that frequently doesn't make it into the adaptations, and thus was downplayed for the western audience, The Chaos Emeralds.
As stated in the Japanese manual for the very first Sonic game, it is said that the Chaos Emeralds provide life to all living beings, but if misused, they can also lead to great destruction. Eggman wants them to make giant lasers and weapons. Sonic only wants them to stop Eggman from having them. But remember the aspect of the story that was more emphasized in western materials, Eggman using animals to power his robots. The animals are powered by the energy from the Chaos Emeralds, that is, Chaos itself. The Emeralds are not the only source of Chaos that Eggman is trying to corrupt to his own ends. But how does he corrupt it? By trying to control it. Direct it. Trying to make giant lasers, highly focused, directed, controlled beams of energy. Eggman's goal is to control the Chaos.
In Sonic 2, the emeralds have been scattered to Westside Island, the home of the civilization that was destroyed in the myths surrounding the emeralds. Found on the island is the 7th Chaos Emerald, which when collected by Sonic (and not by Tails), allows him to take on a golden Super form. He then destroys Eggman's Death Egg, a giant space station with a giant laser, and it falls to earth.
Sonic 3 & Knuckles introduces Angel Island, the original home of the Chaos Emeralds, the Master Emerald, which can control the Chaos Emeralds, and Knuckles, the Guardian of the Master Emerald. More importantly, it introduces the concept of not just myths, but prophecies. In the manual, Knuckles sees the Death Egg land on Angel Island, and it reminds him of a prophecy of a dragon that will come from a giant egg and bring great destruction. However, Eggman convinces him that Sonic is in fact the dragon, which is perhaps easier because Sonic arrives in his Super Sonic form. Knuckles knocks out Super Sonic and takes the emeralds, presumably by using the Master Emerald's power to negate the Chaos Emeralds, which he can use as the Master Emerald's Guardian. Knuckles would have previous knowledge of Super Sonic, because in the Master Emerald's Hidden Palace, there is a mural of Super Sonic facing off against a giant figure that looks like Eggman, holding what seems to be the Master Emerald (but could be a Chaos Emerald). We later find out that this foreshadows the end of the game, when Super Sonic chases Eggman, in a mech that resembles himself, through space, trying to stop him from getting away with the Master Emerald. However, Knuckles clearly misinterprets this as Eggman protecting the Emerald from Sonic. When Eggman finally steals the Master Emerald, Knuckles finally sees the error of his ways.
The important point is the revelation that both Sonic and Eggman are prophesied characters. This will become more important later, but first let's explain a bit more of the backstory. Sonic Adventure delves deeply into this and shows us Chaos, the God of Destruction that destroyed the civilization that abused the emeralds. When the dark elder Pachacmac tried to use the emeralds for war, hurting innocent Chao in the process, a creature who came to be known as Chaos absorbed the power of the Chaos Emeralds and went on a rampage until Tikal, seemingly a previous Guardian of the Master Emerald, sealed both Chaos and herself inside the Master Emerald.
c0f163 No.16239764
Though not stated (except for in some adaptations) Chaos is implied to be a very powerful Chao. Chao are water-like creatures that absorb energy from animals and take on their attributes. In Sonic Adventure 2, we find out that the government, GUN, uses things called Chaos Drives to power their robots, instead of the animals that power Eggman's robots. The result is the same, and Chao absorb their energy just the same, because, as we recall from Sonic 1, animals are powered by Chaos Energy. Chao absorb Chaos Energy, and when the Chao are threatened by Pachacmac, the most powerful Chao absorbs the pure Chaos Energy of the Emeralds to become a giant dragon and bring great destruction. This calls to mind Knuckles' myth of the dragon. In modern day, Eggman finds out about the myth of Chaos and shatters the Master Emerald to free him, because as we have seen since the first game, Eggman is always trying to control Chaos. Of course, he cannot truly control Chaos for long, and once Chaos finally gets the full power of the 7 Chaos Emeralds again, he takes on his most dragon-like form and destroys Westside Island once again. However, Sonic finds he is able to use the Emeralds at the same time as Chaos, because Chaos is only using the negative power of the emeralds, and Sonic can still use the positive power of the emeralds to become Super Sonic and stop him.
From the very first game, we were told that Chaos has two aspects, giving life to all living beings, and bringing great destruction. If Chaos, the mythical creature, is the God of Destruction because it uses the negative power of the emeralds, then does that make Sonic the God of Life?
Of course Eggman is also part of the same myths. So what does he represent? Order, of course. Controlling Chaos. In the cancelled Sega Saturn game, Sonic X-Treme, the macguffins were going to be the Rings of Order, the opposite of the Chaos Rings from Knuckles Chaotix, which were the tools Pachacmac used to accessed the power of the Chaos Emeralds. Order is the opposite of Chaos, and Eggman can be seen as the God of Order, with Pachacmac being a previous incarnation of this. But if Chaos has two aspects and two gods representing it, then does Order? Well the type of Order that Eggman represents is obvious, he represents negative aspect of Order, Order as Oppression, but there is another figure who is linked with controlling the Chaos, Knuckles. Knuckles, and the previous Guardian of the Master Emerald that we know of, Tikal, would thus represent the positive aspect of Order, Order as peace, safety.
Next up is Sonic Shuffle, a seemingly insignificant party game. In it, the God of Dreams, Illumina, splits into two aspects, the evil Void, and the good Lumina. Void is the personification of negative emotions and destroys the Perfect Preciousstone, which exists in the world of dreams, Maginaryworld, and grants creatures in the "real world" the ability to dream. Lumina is the personification of positive emotions, and encourages the protagonists to press forward and restore the Preciousstone. But what are dreams if not thought? What is thought if not the very life that Eggman seeks to stamp out by putting animals in his robots? This is seen most clearly with Gamma's story in Sonic Adventure, when we are shown that most of the robots do not retain their own sense of thought, and Gamma's animal's personality shining through completely destroys Eggman's plans. So again it comes down to life and chaos. Void is the personification of the idea of negative emotions that lead to destruction, Lumina the personification of positive emotions, but they are both aspects of Illumina, imagination. It is no coincidence that Chaos is the Void from which all things are born in classic mythology. When Chaos uses the negative energy of the emeralds, which are the source of life, he is essentially allowing himself to be possessed by Void. When Sonic harnesses the positive energy of the emeralds, he is embodying Lumina. Of course, as seen in the myths, they are destined to do this.
c0f163 No.16239768
"But wait!" you may say. "Sonic isn't special just because he can become Super! Other characters can do that too!" Not so fast! Let's go through the list. First up is Tails, who can only become Super with the Super Emeralds, not the Chaos Emeralds. Immediately not the same power, and even then, the Super Emeralds might not be canon. The canon ending of Sonic & Tails' story from Sonic 3 & Knuckles is the one where you have the Chaos Emeralds but not the Super Emeralds, as this is the ending that sets up Knuckles' story. The Super Emeralds have never been mentioned again.
Next is Knuckles. He can use the Chaos Emeralds, which makes a degree of sense since he has a connection to them through the Master Emerald, but even then, his Super Form isn't quite the same. Just a light glow, instead of the vast difference seen with Super Sonic. Also I just realized I forgot Super Tails uses the Chaos Emeralds in Sonic Mania, but the same thing applies there.
Now the more important case is Shadow. His Super form is very much equivalent to Sonic. Of course, Professor Gerald knew all about the echidna murals and lore. He used it to make Artificial Chaos creatures, powered by Chaos Drives, for GUN. He built a replica emerald shrine to power the Eclipse Canon and the Biolizard, which could very easily be seen as another attempt to copy Chaos. Of course the other important mural is the one of Super Sonic and Eggman. Eggman of course looks remarkably like his grandfather, Gerald. He could have easily seen the mural as representing himself giving a Chaos Emerald to his creation, the Ultimate Life Form, so he set out to create a creature like that. A dark colored creature with upturned spikes, powered by emeralds that Gerald gives him. Even then, he needed Black Doom's help. But of course we know better. Shadow is only a copy of the real Ultimate Life Form, the Ultimate Personification of Life, the God of Life, Sonic. Just like the Artificial Chaos are just copies of the real God of Destruction, the Personification of Destruction, a creature powered by the pure essence of Destruction. Shadow is just a shadow of the real thing. But this does explain why he has a similar Super form.
Also there's Super Silver, but he also has psychic powers and his origins aren't explained at all, so who knows? And Light Gaia is an actual God, so his powers make enough sense.
>tl;dr: The Sonic the Hedgehog series is a deconstruction of the nature of Chaos and Order. Chaos, The God of Destruction, is stated to only use the negative aspect of Chaos (the concept), leaving Sonic, user of the positive aspect of Chaos, to be The God of Life, the Ultimate Life Form. Eggman (as well as his predecessor Pachacmac) then represents the negative aspect of Order, Oppression, while Knuckles (as well as his predecessor Tikal) represents the positive aspect of Order, Peace.
fc487d No.16239816
Sonic autism is always somehow so magnificent and captivating.
971209 No.16239826
>>16239762
>>16239764
>>16239768
I always liked the machine and nature in harmony theme going on in Sonic CD personally. Nice to see at least one game do away with that false dichotomy.
c0f163 No.16239840
>>16239826
The problem isn't the machines, it's that Eggman uses nature to power his machines. The Chaos Emeralds give life to all living beings, including Plants, which Eggman uses to power his machines in Sonic CD. He then also uses the threat of Metal Sonic to scare all the animals away, so that the only life left is life under his control. There are civilizations that use machines and are not shown to represent the same Order and Oppression as Eggman. Station Square is built on the same island that Pachacmac once ruled, and they are a very technologically advanced society, but this is specifically shown in a good light, highlighting the fact that they live in peace with the Chao, this game's representation of Nature. In fact, Chaos Drives are beneficial to Chao, and are a way to power machines that is not seen as abusing the power of Chaos. Of course, it is never made clear where exactly Chaos Drives come from.
971209 No.16239847
>>16239840
>The problem isn't the machines
I never said it was. What I'm saying is that in any other game it would be a "technology bad, plants good!" message for your electronic entertainment box made out of non biodegradable plastic.
c0f163 No.16239856
>>16239847
>I never said it was. What I'm saying is that in any other game it would be a "technology bad, plants good!" message for your electronic entertainment box made out of non biodegradable plastic.
Of course. I was supporting your point, not contradicting it. I was simply adding that the entire series never really intended to provide a nature versus technology narrative. Rather, it was about Chaos versus Order. The antagonist just happened to use machines to impose order, but the games also always had an element of highlighting the dangers of Chaos and the virtues of Order as well. It is not black and white. There is good and bad to everything. Chaos and Order must exist in balance.
159777 No.16239918
>game has a morality system
>it only has a good or bad option
>if you're role playing as someone who puts the mission and objective first
>obviously, you won't go out of your way to burn down an orphanage on the other side of town
>but you won't go out of your way and fuck up your own plans to slightly help someone
>at the end of the game you end up with not enough good or evil points to unlock the really good abilities
>now you're fucked because you actually made different choices instead of just clicking the same colored button every time
Why are nuRPG developers so dead set on binary morality systems? What's so fucking hard about making a netural option and giving it some benefits too?
c0f163 No.16239941
>>16239918
Reminder that Shadow the Hedgehog sadly has one of the best morality systems in a game because it doesn't incentivize you to just do either a fully Good run or a fully Evil run. In fact that would only get you two of the ten endings, and the game slightly incentivizes you to do every possible combination of choices, because it keeps track of all of them, and watch all the cutscenes from that particular path in order as a movie, each one with a unique name.
Of course the game isn't nearly good enough to warrant playing through the several hundred times it would take to unlock every possible path, but the record is there, so at least you can keep track of which you've done. The only downside is that with only three missions per level, you still have to play each mission in the first level three times in order to get all ten endings, though there is at least a ranking system with significant unlockables, so you'll probably be replaying to get better ranks anyway.
b1a32b No.16239946
>>16238814
I have a feeling he took alot of advanced math courses in college but is still an autistic neet and probably doesn't have a real occupation.
b1a32b No.16239952
>>16239918
The people who design and write the games are as 2 dimensional as their morality systems. The art reflects upon the artist. These people see everything as good or bad.
00156e No.16239958
>>16238597
Reminds me a bit of the nu-Deus Ex games, where there is absolutely no incentive not to be non-lethal.
c0f163 No.16239978
>>16239946
His other hobby is collecting mechanical pens, which he imagines to be highly personified. His famous Watch for Rolling Rocks video was made during what was essentially a nervous breakdown, which he coped with by locking himself in his room for like a week and doing nothing but working on that video. That's why he doesn't want to make other videos like it. Not only was it much more difficult to make than most of his videos, but it reminds him of his breakdown. His celebrity has strongly impacted his social life, as he dislikes even being reminded of the video, but everyone, including people he's just met, reminds him of it now because it's famous. It's only made his obvious social difficulties even more difficult. I don't think he has made clear things like his occupation, but there is evidence to point that he would have difficulty dealing with the unfortunate social realities of the workplace, despite the fact that he is clearly very intelligent and probably technically capable.
496a96 No.16239981
>>16239958
Enemies can revive allies you KO’ed?
505b5f No.16240051
>>16239918
>not enough good or evil points to unlock the really good abilities
I think it's just Mass Effect that makes you be full good/bad to unlock abilities.
c0f163 No.16240092
>>16240051
>I think it's just Mass Effect that makes you be full good/bad to unlock abilities.
Lots of games have good points and evil points and the best moves are only unlocked with the most points, so if you don't go full good or full evil you might get a few crappy moves on the opposite side, but will be delaying (maybe forever) your chance to get the best moves. InFamous does this, for example. What these types of games really do is just have two stories to play through. Some games, like InFamous 2, make the two different enough to really make it feel worth it. Others, like InFamous 1, largely just waste your time because the two stories are so similar anyway. But if you don't play through twice you're still missing out on enough content to make you feel ripped off. Just playing through the second time isn't different enough to be fun.
159777 No.16240103
>>16240051
It's pretty much every nuBioware game ever, and infamous off the top of my head right now, but I think even Watch Dogs had a morality system that locked you away from perks unless you were maxed out on good.
00156e No.16240106
>>16239981
Well, you need to hide bodies either way so it doesn't really matter much.
You can also just shoot enemies you KO'd, that way they are, well, dead, but you still get the xp-boni for being non-lethal.
bf88ff No.16240184
Rez
The void
Mappy
Omikron: the nomad soul
Sonic 3
Wario land 3
Animal crossing gamecube
True Crime Streets of LA
df03f8 No.16240245
>>16238676
The second one was not made by levine, infinity was, it is the third one.
The second one literally shits on communism.
df03f8 No.16240268
>>16238685
>>16238917
No, thats a lie sir, bioshock was supposed to have a more heavy atmosphere and choices where being "bad" would give your much more compensation than being good and 2K pressured them to change that because the idea of testing players moral would be bad.
df03f8 No.16240277
>>16238927
He did not broke the PNA, kek.
4de755 No.16240308
Guys brainlet here.
What do I have to do/read to not be a brainlet anymore?
05d70b No.16240321
>>16238607
What's the point of giving the player a moral choice when there is basically no reason to choose the "evil" one?
That's what bugs me with most games that offer players moral choices, there is usually no incentive to pick the bad choice, to the point you basically realize the devs never really put any serious thought into the evil decisions and they exist only so they can put "non-linear" or "choices matter" on the box.
Also, the choices should never be a "good" one and an "evil" one, since 99% of players will always pick the "good" one without really agonizing too much over it - the choices should instead be "choice #1 that players want to pick" and "choice #2 that players want to pick".
c0f163 No.16240323
>>16240308
It's not about what you read, but how you read. Some men can read War and Peace and come out thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the back of a candy wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.
But also try not having shit taste. If the mass media tell you it's good, it's probably shit and you should feel bad if you like it.
3b317c No.16240353
>>16238927
Literally did nothing wrong. His downfall wasn't his own but the parasites that fed off Rapture like Fontaine.
11dbea No.16240361
>kill an organ harvester to sell her organs for a quick buck
>save the organ harvester and have her harvest organs for you at a better return than what you can do
I don't get why you are mad, it makes sense that you get more by imprinting on a child to do the harvesting for you. What the game is teaching you is that being dumb and killing people who could be influenced to do your bidding for a quick buck is wrong. There is a reason you will always be the poor idiot that you are. Make others do the work for you.
c0f163 No.16240370
>>16240361
He's saying that that's a "lesson" for retards, and the fact that idiots like you and "journalists" think it's a real lesson and not the most obvious choice in the world only proves that you are retards.
05d70b No.16240371
>>16240361
The point is that the game gives the illusion of choice. The developers know full well what choice the majority of players will make. What's the point of giving the player a choice when there is no incentive to pick differently?
6318a6 No.16240378
>>16238597
The best course of action is actually to save the sisters until the first reward then harvest them
f71c6c No.16240709
>>16238652
>>16238607
>profitable
>always pays off more
I always saw this ad the most cynical psychopathic view of the world since it posits morality as being a greedy jew, and as such completely ignored that it and would rather just call the devs cucks
34d326 No.16240710
I think that Battle Network has the closest thing to a truly impactful morality system because it affected the player mechanically first and plotwise second.
>Dark Chips are some of the most powerful chips in the game, DarkSword for example is one of the most reliable Program Advances in the series compressed into one chip
>but they permanently reduce your max HP by 1, and if you use them too often then you'll lose your ability to use Double Soul which has some good niche uses other than raw stats and Full Synchro which rewards you for mastering enemy patterns
>so you can either git gud and learn to use every other mechanic of the game to it's fullest, or you can abuse Dark Chips and ride out the rest of the game, consequences be damned
>or you can try to do both
Too bad that Dark Chips are only available in the worst Battle Network games, and Chaos Unison makes the decision meaningless anyway.
7e340a No.16240759
>take Carthago
>occupy the settlement for pennies, with high potential for revolt
>enslave the populace for maximum shekels, but potential for revolt is still high
>genocide for half the shekels, but at least they won't revolt
>>16238927
>"Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam."
Was he right /v/?
7b97ce No.16240782
>>16240709
>being nice to people is jewish
No
dc0cc3 No.16240820
>>16238597
>doesnt realize that saving the girls give you an army of little girls with needles who will do anything,you say
Also they give you better rewards in that game for being good
e20471 No.16240873
Surprised nobody brought up Soma yet. We shat on it in the past. Basically he had a brain scan for a some disease and your saved data of yourself back then finds it in a robot in the future. You meet these robots who seem more human than they look and you make choices along the way whether to "kill" them to move along with the story or find some other way to progress. If that sounds interesting, the game is definitely not.
It's not really that scary. Psychologically you could argue but the gameplay didn't complement these aspects. Pick either choice and the outcome is generally the same. Your chased by this enemy at points that clotheslines you so the suspense you should feel is killed. There was no gameplay mechanic built around the concept of these human-ai hybrids and boiled down to just a walking simulator. Oh, and the ending is where you get left behind because during a transfer you have a 50/50 chance of making it because doing so creates a copy of you that thinks your the fake. It was just a lot of wasted potential.
1ed839 No.16240883
>>16240820
nah, you save a certain amount then you go back to harvesting the sisters for max adam gain
c0f163 No.16240895
>>16240782
His argument was that it was jewish because it's only being nice to people because it's the most profitable option.
3db170 No.16240921
>>16240873
Isn't there absolutely no chance of you getting the new body? The switch you make in the middle to the other suit is just because the game would end if the player didn't jump suits. It'd make sense because since you're newly scanned you'd keep the most up to date memories and when people say they are going to upload themselves to the internet, they forget that they mean they will upload a copy of themselves to the internet.
1ce3f6 No.16240928
>>16240873
The 50/50 thing was a ruse to get the character to do what was needed to launch the uploaded humans. Really, most of what the player character does is get bamboozled thanks to his ignorance and he doesn't catch on to the fact that no one version of people gets transferred and instead everyone gets copied and uploaded, the originals always get left behind.
It honestly would've been fine if it was honest about the content and fully embracing the atmospheric elements instead of forcefully cramming some ebin jumpscares and spooky blobs of AI. Even then, it never asks incisive or though-provoking questions about what really constitutes a person or a human being or the ethical implications of effectively creating electronic clones of people, instead it's just a layer of the psychological horror which matters little if people can just use the black mass thing to create immortal bodies to begin with.
3b6a3a No.16240942
>>16239764
>>16239762
>>16239768
I don't have much to add but I just wanted to say that this was an interesting read.
0b70ad No.16240958
The choice between good and evil is not meaningful if evil isn't easier.
The Witcher 3 presents good micro-level morality. When you do a job for a client who turns out to be poor (i.e. them paying you would put them in serious jeopardy), you can just refuse payment if you want. No particular reward, it's just the right thing to do (if you don't need the money yourself).
971209 No.16240960
>>16240958
Pretty much every Bioware game ever has this option.
b5232c No.16241003
>>16238597
I liked the harem ending, only reason i saved all the lolis.
41ede2 No.16241119
>>16240371
>What's the point of giving the player a choice when there is no incentive to pick differently?
But you just said that was the point. Did you forget that nearly every decision you made was literally forced by Fontaine via psychological conditioning?
Hell, a few parts of the game were made to reinforce the idea that you, the gamer, never have any real choice in what you do.
>fairly linear map layout
>no alternate methods in solving puzzles
>required to use plasmids to progress
It's interesting how it doesn't let you choose things in a city founded on the ideology of individuals supposedly making their own decisions. It kinda contrasts with the second game as well, when your actions can affect your daughter and the ending more while the main enemies are Collectivists advocating the exact opposite of Andrew Ryan's ideology.
Though how much of that was intentional and how much was just the devs not wanting complex maps like System Shock is debatable.
730be2 No.16241138
>>16238597
Choosing instant gratification over a greater, if delayed payoff, is nigger-tier behavior.
971209 No.16241145
>>16241138
There is no delayed payoff when the game ends in less than 10 hours regardless.
51df70 No.16241299
>>16239297
>when that Ebert fag
Roger Ebert was alright. Sure he was a bit of a douche, but at least he never lost his smile.
81fcee No.16241314
>>16238927
No, his shit society was just the logical conclusion of unregulated free market ayncrap ethos.
>>16239054
>>16239154
>strawman
He literally wasn't. Capitalism encourages sociopathic behaviour because it's in their self-interest which leads to greater profits at the expense of human life, this is why massive corporations that lower wages and fuck with the economy gain while muh small business owners who try to cling to ethics are wiped out. Because lack of regulation leads to massive short-term gains, it's unsuited for long-term goals.
>>16240353
>Literally did nothing wrong
Wrong. Failure to stop potential hazards means it's your responsibility including for those you have hurt. It's why if someone comes onto your property and your dog attacks them you can't just tell the courts, "lol I dindu nuffin, it wuz mah dog, dawg." You have a responsibility. This is the reason 'criminal negligence' is a law. It's the reason that OSHA is a thing that exists. By failing to take precautions it encourages destructive behaviour. Since it's his undersea city and therefore private property he has responsibility for the safety and security of his tenets; had he built said city in the US he would be facing multiple years in prison far exceeding the human lifespan and several millions worth of damages in criminal manslaughter.
51df70 No.16241453
>>16240921
If the consciousness you upload is a viable and genuine consciousness - then why couldn't you just leave the original mind and the simulated mind networked and synchronized for an extended period of time - and over the time, slowly kill off the original mind neuron by neuron so that the simulated mind can adapt accordingly. As a visual metaphor, imagine taking a match and using it to strike a second match - you just end up with two discrete flames. But what if you leave the two matches bundled together into a single flame, until the fuel of the first match is exhausted - can the resulting flame on the new fuel source be considered the same flame? Could continuity of consciousness be preserved this way - and if not, what does that mean for cryogenics in which brain function ceases while frozen? Why do we pursue cryogenics if we can't preserve continuity of consciousness, but dismiss brain uploading because we think we can't preserve continuity?
I mean, yeah - if you just take a xerox copy of someone's mind and fax to a remote server - you're going to end up with two distinct and individual copies of the same mind. Which is basically how it's depicted as being done in Soma - but I don't think the problem of CoC is inherently intractable. And it's premature to assume it is, because we haven't really even gotten to the point where we can ask such questions with any sort of testable outcome or even a solid enough knowledge base to make a good speculation.
74cebf No.16241555
>>16241453
The whole premise has been around forever. You're just arguing one possibility of the Ship of Theseus paradox where the continuity defines the identity. You can go on forever hypothesizing about it, but there's no point. There's no solution, and any proposed solution is just a reflection of one's perspective and a hint into the axioms you subscribe to.
8f093a No.16241622
>>16239369
I think the fellow you're responding to is one of the fucks shitting up /k/ at the moment.
06b666 No.16241625
>>16240361
Would have been better to have exclusive perks for each choice. Harvesting giving you the ability to, I don't fucking know, loot corpses for Eve or buddy with Big Daddies or some shit.
>>16241314
>massive corporations
>capitalism
Capitalism doesn't exist in any modern country, because every country that doesn't regulate their market instead has corporations influencing the law in their favor, which is also not a free market. It's hard to say whether a free market can be relatively moral because lobbying/cronyism immediately gets in the way every time it's tried.
73df5a No.16241644
>>16238927
His biggest mistake was giving people DNA mutating superpowers. That should've never been done besides perhaps augmenting DNA to become superior genetic engineering, but not give it to the retarded masses
Secondly, making a city underwater was just for the whole sake of exposition and having a unique game setting, but in reality that's a dumb idea because he could've done much more with that amount of income
Regarding ideologies he wasn't wrong in paper, the issue is people are not to be trusted, because parasites like fontaine will always exist. The same issue with communism, it doesn't work. Because people will naturally corrupt/eventually corrupt/ kike it up, so a morality standard needs to exist to teach the retards and keep the kikery in check.
ultimately in paper, or in small communities, it plausible, but on a big scale it is very flawed because selfish people will always put their priorities over the better good and this needs to be monitored, otherwise it is anarchy without laws.
He was a strawman of a flawed ideology, however his objectivism is not wrong, just a tool that shouldn't be used on a greater scale. It could be applied to a team of PHD scientists all with good education and family value backgrounds where removing limits to their research gives them the freedom to break boundaries scientifically, and given the team is small and they are known to be good people, the moral freedom is known to be kept in check.
He wasn't wrong in believing a different ideology, he was wrong in believing this ideology would apply on a large population scale and giving mutant powers to the populace unchecked, making him negligible for not stopping it, and lastly not keeping rats like fontaine under watch
His biggest mistake was trusting kikes who took advantage of his trust in the people.
4711b8 No.16241748
>>16238930
>>16239125
The main game pokes around at what it means to be human. It's very basic philosophy, but it's well done I think.
The DLC, which was a nice chunk of content, shows, in a nutshell, why Reddit is retarded.
It's made by the same guys that do Serious Sam and even sold a DLC that replaces god with Sam's voice actor.
8416d0 No.16242203
>>16240184
I was going to post The Void as well.
c0f163 No.16242312
>>16241119
>Hell, a few parts of the game were made to reinforce the idea that you, the gamer, never have any real choice in what you do.
>It's not a bug, it's a feature!
>>16241644
>His biggest mistake was giving people DNA mutating superpowers.
Ain't that always how it goes?
42298e No.16242320
>>16241644
>His biggest mistake was giving people DNA mutating superpowers.
>His biggest mistake was trusting kikes who took advantage of his trust in the people.
Which is it?
d78ede No.16242351
>>16241644
The problem wasn't the super powered freas but all the poor people littering Rapture, that Fontane took in and sold them the poison called Socialism, and ultimately made Andrew betray his principles by nationalizing Fontane's factories. All Andrew had to do was implement two policies right from the start, there are no one way tickets to Rapture, only two way tickets(so you can always return), thus if you loose all your money you can always leave. The second would be for those who are either too stubborn or too desperate to leave, if for the last few weeks they had 0 cash, and no job, then they are physically removed from Rapture with their return tickets(the return tickets are also kept in the train station, so that the people can't loose them, and remain trapped). There no more beggars littering the streets, and all Fontaine is left with, are a few goons, and he can't spread Socialism.
916147 No.16242360
>>16241003
It's not a harem ending, sadly. I think the implication was that they went and married and had families, so it's actually a cuck ending.
>>16241119
>Hell, a few parts of the game were made to reinforce the idea that you, the gamer, never have any real choice in what you do.
Yet you're never asked to kindly do anything with the Little Sisters. That choice is entirely up to the player, further ruining what could have been a pretty interesting dynamic.
I liked the clever meta Bioshock had going for it with the "Would you kindly", I just don't like that it lets you choose how to handle the Little Sister, yet one of the few meaningful choices you get to make in the game is watered down because the developers were pussies and wanted to discourage the player from acting like a Jew. The "good" choice should have made the game harder, not easier.
3c283f No.16242364
>>16242351
throw ultra-cheap junk food and entertainment at the proles until they overdose on ultra-cheap drugs, then have them processed into ultra-cheap junk food.
Come on, you're not thinking like an Urban Elite.
f4a4d0 No.16242382
>>16241003
>harem ending
They get married to others you retard. You're a surrogate father to them, the ultimate cuck. One actually marries a nigger.
d78ede No.16242391
>>16242364
All this would create, is a drone army that would fight for whoever would promise them more free stuff(food medicare, entertainment, universal basic income) aka socialism, which is not what Rapture needed, nor does any country.
There are, however such places, where people get a guaranteed bed, three meals per day, recreational hours in open air, large walls to keep foreigners away, doctors and police officers to keep things safe, some places don't even require the people to work, just to be peaceful, paradise right? well it's called a jail.
cbc752 No.16242421
>>16242391
>well it's called a jail.
Don't forget the free education too.
Also, it should be mention that over 76% of the prisoners released from jail return within five years (With two thirds of those returnees happning within the first year): http://archive.fo/loB5t
20a29f No.16242430
>>16238597
Is that pantsu? Any better shots?
916147 No.16242440
>>16242421
>majority of prison population are spics and niggers
>keep returning to Nigger U
Truly a mystery.
cbc752 No.16242464
>>16242461
>communism is kiked
>Nationalsocialism is the only way.
<My special brand of Socialsm/Communism has never been tried or given enough of a chance to last
d78ede No.16242472
>>16242461
Reminder that communism and national socialism are two sides of the same state minted coin.
3c283f No.16242479
>>16242391
You'd be a smash hit at CPAC.
d78ede No.16242492
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16242479
I prefer the PFS and maybe the (((Mises))) Institute(don't let the kike name fool you).
35d701 No.16242498
>>16242461
>using the same argument against communism with capitalism when they're complete opposites
>being a bootlicker
Free market is the natural state of human interaction and the state is a parasite that undermines it. While communism claims it will reach an utopia if only it reaches "100% totally true communism this time guys", while in reality it just gets progressively worse, "true" capitalism is just the market existing without the state, and thus is actually possible to exist in reality
d78ede No.16242502
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
Might as well post this, tell me if there is anything you honestly disagree with this speech.
916147 No.16242503
>>16242498
>someone let a centrist off the short bus
Truly tragic.
35d701 No.16242509
>>16242503
How the fuck do you get from that that I'm a "centrist". Is that just a catch-all term for people who don't fanatically take sides in politics?
159777 No.16242605
>>16242509
Yes. And whenever you accuse them of being retarded they just start screaming about horseshoe theory.
71db84 No.16242866
>>16242382
>One actually marries a nigger
well thats still much more then you can expect from crack whore child slave soldiers. even if she marries a nigger its better then her still stabbing people for slug cocaine
73df5a No.16242893
>>16242502
>cross-polinate
fucking pretentious fuck. I disagree with that choice of words
73df5a No.16242901
>>16242320
oh shit, my bad. Wrote that at 4am. Nevertheless my point is conveyed, both are big mistakes from his part. I'm sorry that made you upset.
>>16242351
Agreed.
0f64b8 No.16242910
>>16241625
ive wanted to fuck her since i played BS2 back in the day
60ef3f No.16243052
>>16242498
>Free market is the natural state of human interaction
<Son, you're an adult now, here's your bill for all Parental Services™, Accomodation and breast milk.
How does the invisible hand fix conspiracies, planned obsolence or information asymmetry?
2b16e7 No.16243067
>>16242866
No it isn't because being at eternal child-slave chugging slugs at the bottom of the ocean means she doesn't shit out disgusting half-monkeys into civilized society.
2b16e7 No.16243082
>>16242360
Fontaine purposefully avoided forcing a choice upon you on the matter so as to not tip you off about him mind controlling you.
Remember how he initially made up a hole story about muh wife and muh child to get you on his side.
He also pretended to be Atlas for most of the story. This in turn must mean that there must be limits to the WYK conditioning otherwise he would have just told you at minute 1 that he is Fontaine and wants you to go kill Ryan.
3cd1a8 No.16243165
>>16240245
Yeah, my mistake I forgot there was a 2.
I meant 1 and infinity.
54dc9e No.16243481
>>16243052
>conspiracies
As long as there are more than 3 people on this planet there will always be at least two who conspire against the third, so there is no system to fix something like this
>planned obsolence
Shitty practice, I agree, but tell me how does the state fix this? f anything they go in the other extreme, where you have technology or tools that are decades old and behind, but still used, instead of actually being replaced.
>information asymmetry
As long as there are two people on this planet, there will be information asymmetry.
You might as well as how can free market capitalism, fix limited resources, people dying of old age, and that the sun that will destroy the earth in a few billion years.
c0f163 No.16243525
>>16243052
>>16243481
The bigger problem is simply that having money is an advantage to making more money. Eventually all the money collects into the hands of very few, and you're left with aristocracy. That is the natural state of things.
54dc9e No.16243587
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16243525
And how do these people make money on a free market? By providing goods that are desired, at lower costs. Vid related has plenty of examples of how those "evil robber barons" made some of their money. There was also a time in America when there were more people who became rich, rather than being born as one. Sure there were people who became richer and richer, but so were the poor people. Furthermore things like IP laws or fractional reserve banking wouldn't exist under a free market(even a kike like Rothbard was against fractional reserve banking). Lastly let's say that you are right, and some form of natural aristocracy is formed, what is your alternative then? A state dictatorship that controls the means of production? A benevolent super-computer that will raise and nurture us? Some other form of masters? Is the guarantee of a master that controls everything preferable to a what if scenario with the free market solution?
2b16e7 No.16243593
>>16243525
Within capitalism however it is the worst form of Aristocracy, one where none of the aristocrats have any real values, no connection to the people they rule over and absolutely obsessed with keep money and power among their own.
Aristocrats of old at least had land that could be put to the torch when they fucked up too much. Even further back they were the actualy elite, the best of the best of society in mind, body and spirit.
These days they are just the best parasites.
60ef3f No.16243595
>>16243481
>but tell me how does the state fix this
They outlawed timer-based failure in lightbulbs, so the company (philips IIRC) made it fail after a set amount of turning on.
Obviously the state would require an army to execute every jew in the world to prevent such abuse from happening.
my answer is violence on orders from moral and incorruptible people.
cbc752 No.16243614
>>16243593
>Even further back they were the actualy elite, the best of the best of society in mind, body and spirit
No, they weren't, you idiot!
Throughout all of history, all the "elites" ever did was surround themselves with people who's skills and abilities could compensate for whatever faults the elitist had.
c0f163 No.16243618
>>16243587
>And how do these people make money on a free market? By providing goods that are desired, at lower costs.
And that's all well and good at first, until they are powerful enough to create something close to a monopoly. Corporations that multiple generations really fuck up the system. Also, kids inheriting shit that they didn't work for really destroys the illusion that everyone works for what they get. People like to say that most wealth doesn't last that many generations, but it certainly helps. Also, that's still a few generations of people who never earned their stuff. Also, those stats largely depend on how exactly you cut off the categories for "rich" and "poor."
>>16243587
>Lastly let's say that you are right, and some form of natural aristocracy is formed, what is your alternative then?
I am fully aware that my idea for a utopia would be considered a dystopia by many reading it, exactly as fiction usually portrays it. My version is probably more extreme than most. Closest it would get to the examples you gave is the scenario with the benevolent super-computer. I for one welcome our new robot overlords.
Alternatively, a moderate system of checks and balances that remain under constant review so that they can be improved over time. But in order for this to work within the framework of a democracy or republic, it requires citizens who have a reasonable knowledge of things like history. Of course once (((certain people))) get rich enough, they use their power to manipulate the citizenry to keep them stupid and voting to keep the powerful in power and getting more powerful.
You complain about kikes, then love a system that they've already taken over and been running for decades.
60ef3f No.16243643
>>16243587
>All corporations exist solely to make money, it's da gubmint who leads them astray.
>I have child's understanding of the world
I'm sure Dutch East India Company dealt with spices and tea only and that was their only goal.
People make money by fair competition on the free market until they have enough money to send anthrax to competing baby formula manufacturer, buy out or murder competition, all the while doing the fucked up shit far away (See apple in china), or hiring best and brightest of shilling and (((PR))), (see equifax, bank of america, EA,).
d6a601 No.16243682
>>16240759
Of course he was right, (((Carthage))) was a merchant city.
3c283f No.16243696
>>16243614
Kind of. The elites couldn't fuck up too badly because there was a supernatural authority above them all. Defying God would obligate the masses to tear down the elites.
Of course, we're all secular now and there's literally nothing to stop the elites from creating Hell on Earth. Today's elites are practically cartoon villains.
71c832 No.16243888
>ctrl+f "centauri"
>nothing
…LOL
54dc9e No.16243948
71c832 No.16243969
>>16243948
FUCK YOU FAGGOT
127bf7 No.16244087
>>16242391
>(food medicare, entertainment, universal basic income) aka socialism
Milton Friedman loved UBI, read a book /pol/.
60ef3f No.16244111
>>16242391
>, large walls to keep foreigners away
the walls keep inmates in you braindead retard.
1c3353 No.16244147
>>16243696
>Today's elites are practically cartoon villains.
And, unless they're careful, they leave as quickly as they came. Seriously, look at how much time has passed since Google, Facebook, Alibaba, Tencent, Amazon, Twitter came to be. NONE of these companies even EXISTED over 25 years ago, and we're not going to probably see them 25 years from now if things continue the way they are. Hell, even the colossus that is Disney is starting to crack with their films underperforming and opening to emtpy theatres, Marvel isn't selling any comics and shutting down, Star Wars has become a completely acidic brand, theme park prices are going up every several months, toys and merchandise are no longer selling with licensees pulling out, and they're still deadset on acquiring Fox (Which is going to leave the company in debt).
54dc9e No.16244156
Invidious embed. Click thumbnail to play.
>>16244087
>I have to agree with everything Milton Friedman or any other libertarian has ever said, I can never form my own opinions, otherwise I am not a true libertarian
>>16243595
I believe we should eliminate patents and IP laws.
>>16243618
Sorry for the late reply
>People work for their families not just for themselves, to deprive children of their father's wealth is an insult and theft of his labor, you could argue that he did not earn it, but neither did you or me "earn" the technological advancements made by scientists/inventors/whatever for the past thousands of years. Society is built on the hard labor of it's people, so that it's descendents might enjoy the fruits of their labor. You can say "but it's not fair, he didn't do anything", ok maybe it's not, welcome to life, it aint fair, some people are born smart others are born intelligent, others are born lucky, others wealthy others have everything, and some have nothing. Some have parents some have a single parent, some are living with their grandparents, some are living in an orphanage, some are fighting wars in Africa. It aint fair, but that's life.
>I for one welcome our new robot overlords.
Good for you, I personally would rather live with the penguins in Antartica.
>Alternatively, a moderate system of checks and balances that remain under constant review so that they can be improved over time.
The founding fathers tried it and it failed, a famous quote from Benjamin Franklin when asked what he has left, to which he answered "A republic,… if you can keep it."
> it requires citizens who have a reasonable knowledge of things like history.
If I were to say that a National Libertarian country can only exist if the people have reasonable knowledge about X or Y, I would get called a utopian who believes that man has to be changed in order for my special snowflake society to work, and then get compared with Marx and his ilk. It's easy to say that everything will work out fine, and people will self regulate, but I do not believe in such a thing, do not believe in a perfect system that can last a 1000 years without it getting corrupted, even in a world without kikes or niggers. It's just that I believe National Libertarianism is the best we can do, it aint perfect, it will get corrupted, but it's best system.
Lastly with a computer that runs everything, you will run in the economic calculation problem.
2b16e7 No.16244158
>>16243614
The word Aristocrat comes from the Greek word Άριστος which means, superior/best. Back during the city states of Greece they were the citizens of the city. They were the only ones that had the money for weapons and armor of any quality and the time to train with them. Considering they were also the owners of the land surrounding the city state, when it came to war they were actually in need of defending the basis of their fortunes and their families.
Sure the plebs would often fight but with shitty weapons, no armor and barely a clue what they were doing. As such these landowners spend their time improving themselves following the αρετές or virtues meaning in-depth improvement of various skills and talents.
So you can stop spouting your american non-education you fucking sperg and pick up a classical book.
54dc9e No.16244162
I think this is all from me, at least for this thread, and sadly I will end on a blackpill. America will face an economic crysis worse than the one in 2008, and everyone will blame it on Trump and capitalism, even though it was because of the state. The citizens and even Gen Z will move towards socialism, and /pol/ will eat it up, since at the end of the day they are still Socialists, only for the white man, instead of everyone. To defend free market capitalism, will truly become politically incorrect both here and on the rest of the internet. I will need to train to keep the flame of libery lit, even though it will, but an amber, however I do believe that the day will come when spark of freedom will get ignited, people will abandom socialism, and embrace the one true economic system. it's been both a pleasure and a privilege, peace!
71c832 No.16244179
This is what it's like in the US: you learn to read and write, do basic calculator math, and you get a very vague and hazy overview of 'history'. Just enough for politicians to use historical celebrities to push their personal agendas while leaving the bulk of the population clueless to what history actually looked like and why things are the way they are, and making them not want to know since they disliked their schooling so much.
All the while they're teaching children to fear, obey, and receive all 'truth' from constantly changing figures of authority to whom they are essentially helpless. A divide is put into the family since children are torn from them too young for too long when we've evolved to live side by side until old enough to fend for ourselves; it kills oral tradition and leads to children and parents not understanding or appreciating one another, since they both live in entirely different worlds during the day and when they're finally under the same roof, they're so exhausted and emotionally drained they just want to vegetate in front of a TV or a computer monitor. Little deep connection or conversation happens here than in families closer to one another
Don't you see? It destroys families and destroys their knowledge from being passed on, replacing it with bureaucratically preapproved information. It's a tool for control
Take the children, force them to WASTE their entire childhood doing absolutely nothing productive or useful, force them to associate "learning" with tedious and mediocre work, then they go home and associate "fun" with tv and the media.
The schools are not intended to teach children, one of their main goals is preventing them from learning too much that would make them less dependent on the system. Having just enough skills to be a useful cog in the machinery is the aim, and of course with the proper brainwash upbringing.
Teach the children to hate learning, to love being unproductive, and guess what?
You may as well have taken everything from them, and they don't even realize it.
It is the worst crime ever committed, the worst institution ever conceived of, yet no one talks about it. Ever. Those that do are ridiculed.
We should be ANGRY. They took away the one thing we can never experience again and never get back, our childhood.
We should be livid, we should be politically organizing against the people organizing it. Yet no one cares, they just let it go.
It confuses the students. It presents an incoherent ensemble of information that the child needs to memorize to stay in school. Apart from the tests and trials, this programming is similar to the television; it fills almost all the "free" time of children. One sees and hears something, only to forget it again.
It teaches them to accept their class affiliation.
It makes them indifferent.
It makes them emotionally dependent.
It makes them intellectually dependent.
It teaches them a kind of self-confidence that requires constant confirmation by experts (provisional self-esteem).
It makes it clear to them that they cannot hide, because they are always supervised.
Backpacks are a slaves weight
Homework to chain you down at home
No windows to "stop distraction"
Tests to grade your worth and stress you
And constant indoctrination by mediocrities and shit textbooks
71c832 No.16244180
>>16244179
The education system is not "broken", it is designed to ruin children. It creates imitators rather than innovators. It defines intelligence as the ability to remember and repeat things. It is also designed to make students weak and submissive as adults.
Instead of finding children with creative and analytical minds it punishes students who question the curriculum and rewards mindless parroting or solving per-determined tasked with per-determined solutions.
The thing about weak and submissive adults is absolutely the primary function of schools. Learned helplessness is truly the one things schools are ultimately about.
Lets also not forget about common core and how stupid it is and how much more stupid they are trying to make all the children become.
any kid that doesn't confrom/follow orders mindlessly in school is taken to a psychologist and diagnosed with ADD and ADHD and OCD so they can drug them up with prozac (mostly fluoride) and ritalin and every other fucked up drug that should never be given to a child with a developing brain. then the kid zones out and behaves like a zombie and feels sad all the time so they diagnose them with bipolar depression and give them even more drugs. kids are being treated like numbers and cattle at school to pass as many tests as possible without learning a single thing and making money for pharmaceutical companies
My parents insisted on me going to psychiatrists and every single one of them requested that I take some SSRI. They would talk to me for like 4 minutes before dispensing whatever evil concoction pfizer was pushing that month.
Its also funny how every single psychiatrist would push a different type of pill. One of them wanted me on Cypralex, the second one said wellbutrin, and lastly seroquil.
These idiots actually said I need seroquil, a fucking anti-psychotic. They even gave me some defacto diagnoses of having psychosis because I was strongly against taking SSRI's, because you know, not trusting big pharma must mean that I'm crazy.
2b16e7 No.16244198
>>16244162
You're a special kind of retard, aren't ya?
c0f163 No.16244218
>>16244147
>Marvel isn't selling any comics and shutting down
While the fact that the company has been taken over by SJWs who actively tell people not to buy their comics isn't helping, the comic book industry was slowly dying for decades. They haven't been a major money maker since the '90s. Disney bought Marvel for their intellectual property rights, but not for the actual comics division. That's why they don't even give enough of a shit to fire the SJWs from the comics division. Then again, they also let Kathleen Kennedy completely destroy all of Lucasfilm, so it's not as if Disney is doing these things purely for profit either, or they wouldn't have handed Star Wars to people who actively hate it and try to destroy it.
That said, Captain Marvel poisoning Marvel Studios shows that the infection is spreading, and now we may likely have the Marvel Studios division killing itself off as well.
>>16244156
>I have to agree with everything Milton Friedman or any other libertarian has ever said, I can never form my own opinions, otherwise I am not a true libertarian
>not TRUE libertarianism, though!
>People work for their families not just for themselves, to deprive children of their father's wealth is an insult and theft of his labor
Yes yes, taxation is theft. I'll allow that. I'd rather live in a world with reasonable types of taxation rather than an aristocracy.
>you could argue that he did not earn it, but neither did you or me "earn" the technological advancements made by scientists/inventors/whatever for the past thousands of years.
>New technology that everyone gets to use is the same as one person getting rich as fuck because they won the parental lottery
>You can say "but it's not fair, he didn't do anything", ok maybe it's not, welcome to life, it aint fair, some people are born smart others are born intelligent, others are born lucky, others wealthy others have everything, and some have nothing.
Comparing things like intelligence is very disingenuous. What happens is that some people who are absolutely inferior get propped up and allowed to have their inferiority and stupidity infect and hurt the world, while others who are superior are deprived of the resources they could use to make the world better. It's not about fairness, it's about the world suffering because we are not taking merit into account.
>It's just that I believe National Libertarianism is the best we can do, it aint perfect, it will get corrupted, but it's best system.
Like you said, everything ultimately requires not-stupid citizens, and that's not happening. Everything ends up corrupted. We can agree on that. I disagree that liberarianism is the best we can do, though, because it just ends up turning into an aristocracy over time. You need a degree of economic regulations to stop that from happening. Unfortunately people are dumb and don't get those regulations just perfect, and the mechanisms to put those regulations in place can be corrupted over time, like everything else. Still, it's something that can be strived toward. We were slightly closer a few decades ago than we are now. We can get closer again. We're not improving, we're getting worse.
823d5d No.16244249
its funny, all these philosophical games supposedly with really deep lore and story and they give you black and white decisions
pathetic
1c3353 No.16244302
>>16244249
That's because philosphy has a joke. If you want to know how the human mind works, you study religion. If you want to know why the works, then I suggest that you read Dale Carnegie.
2fc1cd No.16244645
>>16240759
You should know that carthage was an absolute piece of cancer in the mediterranean and that he was absolutely right and that it did get deleted after all
0733f4 No.16244753
>>16243595
>my answer is violence on orders from moral and incorruptible people.
I thought the same thing when I was /po/l some years ago. Then I realized it's just as retarded a wishful thought as is fucking communism.
2b16e7 No.16244759
>>16244753
Sure thing, nigger. Not like it worked so well the whole world had to unite to destroy it, huh?
0733f4 No.16244779
>>16244759
>Jews are evil, therefore Hitler dindu nuffin
Yeah yeah. Been there, done that.
c0f163 No.16244822
>>16244249
Because the games that focus on decisions are actually just trying to indoctrinate you rather than be good games. That's why all the ones the journalists prop up as being deep are vastly outclassed at their shallow attempts at "choices" by things like Shadow the Hedgehog and Grand Theft Auto II.
81fcee No.16244832
>>16241625
>it wasn't free market capitalism so it wasn't real capitalism at all
That's like saying my rottweiler isn't a german shepard, so it's not a real dog at all.
>>16242461
>NutSac
>nazi germany took an entire month's pay just to afford a pound of butter
Pass.
2b16e7 No.16244839
>>16244832
Source, nigger, otherwise piss off to reddit. They are more on your level.
81fcee No.16244848
>>16244839
>I don't like you so I'm going to call you reddit!
So this is the power of nazifag intellgience…
>Butter was
extraordinarily expensive. In 1936 the price per kilo of butter stood at
3 Reichsmarks and 10 Pfennigs. A 250-gram lump of butter cost more
than an hour's wage. The phrase 'crying over spilt milk' takes on a new
significance when we appreciate that a litre of the precious fluid cost
23 Pfennigs. Eggs at 1.44 Reichsmarks per dozen were hardly cheap.
And even beer, retailing at 88 Pfennigs per litre, was a considerable
drain on the working-class food budget. Not surprisingly, the majority
of Germans lived on a modest and monotonous diet of bread and
jam, potatoes, cabbage and pork, washed down with water and small
amounts of milk and beer.
There's your glorious nazifag empire lol.
0733f4 No.16244872
>>16244803
First one is true, the second isn't. Even if he had good intentions, his methods and execution were trash and he ended up creating the ultimate boogieman that jews still exploit to this day for massive profit, so good job for that I guess.
c0f163 No.16244880
>>16244874
Shouldn't have attacked Russia so early. Don't start a war on two fronts.
0733f4 No.16244884
>>16244874
>it's the man's fault he was defeated
>implying its not your fault for fighting with the wrong strategy
If he was smart and noticed the state is the jew's biggest weapon against the populace, he wouldn't have tried to solve it by increasing the state even more, instead he just went with the meme that "the state is good as long as I'm in control", and the bullshit continues to this day. He just shat out all the redpills he ever had.
0733f4 No.16244889
>>16244884
Also even if you're a statist there's still >>16244880. He was shit at war.
971209 No.16244891
>>16244249
>all these philosophical games supposedly with really deep lore and story
Such as?
2b16e7 No.16244936
>>16244848
Now you just straight up talk like /leftypol/ and there is no way I'd download shit from a niggerfaggot like you onto my pc.
But to your point. There were many struggles in the Reich most having to do with the utter shitshow that was Weimar and the fact that most western nations were doing their damndest to fuck the Reich over in any way possible for (((reasons))). So shortages on specific goods was indeed a problem, also the fact that bad weather had caused massive damage to the crops and fields in the winter of 35-36, thankfully the worst had been avoided by a good yield in 33-34 and the storage of foods thanks to central planning. Agriculture of the Reich was practically 100% state controlled, without taking the land from the farmers as Hitler wanted Germany to be food independent. Something it had not been in WW1 and that almost caused a major catastrophe when they got blockaded.
However on the whole, the economy was magnificent. Unemployment down to practically nothing and that within two years, wages rising all over, people being healthier, happier and living under far better conditions.
Meanwhile murica was going through a massive depression and that without the excuse of having a cancerous government forced upon them the previous years.
Also please explain to anons here, assuming mark and mods don't delete all this, how was it that 3 global empires had to unite to violently beat down, needing several years, a country smaller than Texas, ESPECIALLY if their economy was as shit as you are trying to imply so pathetically?
0733f4 No.16244968
>>16244936
Their economy afaik was a bubble (as is any economy that supposedly grows with "help" from the state), and as for beating Germany down, they did it to make a point (you know which one) and it stuck to this day
1e3378 No.16245001
>>16244848
>a whole 3 years after needing a wheelbarrow of money to buy a loaf of bread they had expensive butter! see national socialism doesn't work when you include problems they were still in the process of fixing, goy
acb755 No.16245011
>>16244968
> they did it to make a point (you know which one)
The Nazis were kicking Britain's and the French's shit in left and right, when the US came in they only won because of having full access to all their communication while they were not aware of it. It required being attacked on two sides and one side having full access to the flow of information to win.
60ef3f No.16245023
>>16244915
>Japan's refusal to invade the Soviet's from the east
Japan didn't send help to germany because the considered invasion of Poland together with soviets a violation of the Anti-communist alliance.
5f86f1 No.16245041
@16238597
Have you tried Skyrim OP? Skyrim does not pull this kind of thing. Try it out some time, you can get it if you have any modern gaming machine. Trust me, it has what you want.
78dd26 No.16245056
>>16245041
Todd you aren't even trying anymore
0733f4 No.16245057
>>16244998
I don't see much evidence proving otherwise either, though. Care to provide some? I'll at least give you that.
>If the economy was such a bubble and it was going to collapse, then there would have been no need to mobilize kike-controlled nations to destroy it in the first place.
That's beside the point. Germany was destroyed to be made an example of. The question isn't if they could do it or not, just that they HAD to, because they were being so openly challenged like that.
Not that Germany winning would change anything if they kept their huge state, though; you'd remove kikes just for someone else to take the helm and keep doing exactly the same thing but to their benefit instead; If the power to dominate others exists, it WILL be used and abused, because there's no reason not to. Besides ethics and morals of course, but then you'd just throw the ring in the volcano in the first place. Which is what needs to be done.
6cbad2 No.16245061
>>16244803
Hitler did plenty long. He lost the war, for one. He never purposefully exterminated the jewish vermin infesting his territory, for two.
2b16e7 No.16245062
>>16244968
A bubble you mean the things filling up all western economies? No, that is merely the victor writing history. If it really had been a bubble it would have collapsed in on itself years before they reached Berlin.
The topic is kinda big and this is not the best place to get into all the details but if you really wanna know I got a few things for you.
One was supposed to be a youtuber but his channel got shoah'd.
Another good source would be to see the laws implemented by the Reich, straight from the horses' mouth. Much of it had to do with abolishing interest and purging their version of (((wallstreet))).
2b16e7 No.16245067
>>16245057
You have absolutely no idea what National Socialism is even about.
But tell us, what stateless or microstate Nation are YOU taking as an example of how things should be.
0733f4 No.16245121
>>16245062
Again, good intentions but wrong methods. "Teaching people how to be responsible with money is too hard, let's just ban interest rates lol"
>>16245067
I'm not taking any nation as an example since there's really no perfect one, as the state has parasited humanity for as long as we know it; still, something has to exist for it to be leeched from, and that something is the free market. If you really need example, the icelandic commonwealth was a kinda good one.
Also, apriorism doesn't need examples to reach a correct conclusion from logic deduction, but I'd wager you don't really care about that
60ef3f No.16245131
>>16245121
>Wanting usury to be legal, or acceptable
thanks goy, could you take care of lights during shabatth too?
>State has parasited [sic!] humanity for as long as we know it
<wtf why aren't there my perfect individualist™ utopias
Were you bullied by a group of jocks and now hate any form of people uniting?
0733f4 No.16245173
>>16245131
>state
>"any form of people uniting"
No, I'm not against any form of human interaction that is consented between the parties ethically speaking of course, morally speaking, if I don't like what people do I just won't associate, ostracize or physically remove them from my property, such as drug abusers or sodomites and against any interaction that is stablished upon aggression/coercion/threat of or use of force. Is that really that hard to get? Or do you think people will only "behave" if they're under the magnanimous "leadership" of your "great and illuminated leader"?
>usury
Money is a resource like any other, and lending it has costs and risks. Lending is also a necessary service to create anything bigger than small-scale investments, like an industry. Free competition of banks would take care of that, but guess why the existings banks do what the fuck they want and rape you in the ass? That's right, because they're in bed with the state. They have the big guns, you don't.
As is any big corporation; they lobby for laws to regulate and strangle the entry into the market they're already big in, and just kill the competition. Or are you going to cry "Waah, bad people shouldn't do bad things! they should be good people!" while enabling the very system that lets them do that kind of shit in the first place?
ecabbe No.16245188
>>16238652
>Maybe it's to show that doing good always pays off more?
But it doesn't.
ecabbe No.16245208
>>16239978
What a fragile little potato.
ecabbe No.16245221
>>16241314
Why the hell do you niggers always confuse "tenets" with "tenants"? You always use the one in place of the other. It's your biggest tell everywhere I go on the internet.
0733f4 No.16245244
>>16245186
I'll yield to you the bubble thing since I really didn't research on it to make a substantiated claim, sure. Don't really care to either, since even if it wasn't, it doesn't really justify the state. But I'll stop using that since it makes your kind just go "Kike" and attack the speaker instead of the argument (which should be easy since it's a weak one).
Also Natsoc being anything like a "third option" is just laughable. It's just "my flavor of socialism", you can't get away from the idea that there should be people commanding other people through the monopoly of force that is the state. Sure natsoc looks better than communism, but so does absolutist monarchy, it's not hard at all. It's like saying snot tastes better than shit.
0665af No.16245257
I fucking hate Biocuck and how pretentious it is
Same with New Vegas Lonesome Road, fuck that shit
94b8a9 No.16245362
>play Dante's Inferno
>game gives you the option to either save or damn certain souls
>had sympathy for some people
>on the other hand all sodomites got the scythe
0733f4 No.16245377
>>16245268
>Nothing at all wrong with having a leader and a hierarchy
Sure, as long as the participants consent explicitly.
> The only problem is when that directive is evil
That's not the only problem, you're ignoring the premises and focusing only on the utilitarian arguments, which can in no way ethically justify something. Also, the only conclusion of such a system is the evil you see, and it's that way by design.
Since I like the LotR analogy: you're tying to put on The Ring so you can fight Sauron, but you'd just be playing into his hands. Even if you managed to defeated (((him))) you'll just take his place as the new evil eventually; the only right move is to destroy the ring, unless you want there to be an endless war in that heroes and tyrants take turns with their roles.
2425c2 No.16245384
>>16245244
just going to leave this here in the hope the lolberg will see sense.
Though sense he's already advocated usury so his tribe can continue to make money from money and do no work, I don't have high hopes for this.
0733f4 No.16245457
>>16245384
As I said, been there done that. I appreciate your good intentions but they're misguided, and I'm not smart enough to change someone's opinion on something like this (I myself took a long time to change mine, used to defend the same arguments you do now), but the least I can do is to say: try getting out of the comfort zone of the echo box sometimes, it can be worth your while. Sorry if that comes off as arrogant, but it is what it is.
0aa33b No.16245477
>>16245384
Good, but still national socialism will never work, because communism and capitalism will work together to destroy it :^)
2425c2 No.16245505
>>16245457
>m-merely echo chamber
>you see, real intelligent people like me support libertarianism *tips fedora*
So if National Socialism survives only by the echo chamber, why don't you destroy it with your brilliantly clever libertarian arguments? Since you seem to be so sure of them. Pretend us non-200IQ plebs could possibly understand your Rick and Morty mind.
0733f4 No.16245689
>>16245505
Never said it was only the echo chamber: it mostly survives by the rage against the status quo. But in the end it's just another colletivist ideology and it won't get us out of the loop.
3c283f No.16245763
>>16245257
I didn't find Lonesome Road pretentious so much as … unnecessary. The collapses of the NCR and Legion are inevitable even if he and Courier 6 do nothing.
2425c2 No.16245769
>>16245689
So how will your ideas do any better, o euphoric one? Enlighten us of the smooth brains.
I sure as hell never heard of any libertarians rising up against the internatonal Jew, especially not to the degree which Hitler's Germany did. Nor is libertarianism anywhere near as much of a bad goy thing to do as to be völkisch and to fight for your own people.
It's hard to see how you can claim being a lolberg "just b urself lmao" faggot is going to get us anywhere, especially given that the only thing which can resist the international Jew is a united effort from a homogeneous people. A lolberg might save himself from the Jew, but he would never save someone else. Remember that most of the Jew's degeneracy is pushed under the banner of individual politics, the same politics of which libertarianism is the ultimate expression of.
731ac8 No.16246077
>>16238597
Ironically having shit taste is still retarded.
>You're going make one choice and stick to it. The game has garner a lot of praise due to this "moral dilemma" except the game does so much to get you pick the good option. Besides the whole moral issue, the game does a poor job incentivizing the evil choice. Adam isn't really that necessary and you have no idea how much Adam you will get from the process. You only know that harvesting gets more Adam than rescuing. You don't even have a vague idea like "You'll only half the Adam.". Also, the first person that you meet that wasn't trying to kill you tells you not to do the evil thing, gives you a non-evil alternative, and killed the last person who tried to do that evil thing. There is also the whole bias to the status quo. People should stop patting themselves in the back for not killing fictional little girls.
0733f4 No.16246085
>>16245769
You deeply misunderstand what libertarianism/ancap is about, since you probably only know it by the memes. How can one be a worse goy than if he refuses to be cattle? And that doesn't mean ignoring other people's well beings either, since you don't need to abandon morals to follow ethics, they're not mutually exclusive.
Anyway, I'm tired so sorry if I can't explain right now, I'll leave you an article I like if you're inclined to read it (not really what you're looking for but it's a start, there's more stuff in there)
https://www.zerothposition.com/2016/02/29/liberty-requires-revolution/
Or maybe you could even go to >>/liberty/ and talk with anons there, there are probably people there that can explain things much better than I. Inb4 shilling the board
I guess this sounds like a cop-out but I've already derailed this thread too much.
2425c2 No.16246182
>>16246085
I understand it too well, it's a system for soyim who are stuck in the "fuck you daddy you don't get to tell me what to do" phase of development. I've looked at it from every angle and only seen you faggots puffing yourselves up over being the ultimate bad goys, all the while deriding the ideology that dealt the deathblow to the jewish new world order and is universally despised by jews all around the world.
And then you claim I couldn't possibly know your philosophy and only see the memes, like furfags did in the 2000s.
Fuck off and keep laying the groundwork for the march of Jewry. This is your daily reminder that no system which does not assert its own morals can beat the Jew.
c0f163 No.16246278
>>16244915
Russia's strength was never technology or military intelligence. Slavs are bugmen and their strength is in sheer numbers. For centuries, their strategy has been to send wave after wave of their own men at the enemy, until the enemy hits its pre-set kill limit. It worked on Napoleon and it worked on Hitler. Extra time to prepare doesn't make a huge difference to them.
2b16e7 No.16247425
>>16245173
Money is no resource you absolute fuckwit. Good and services are resources. Money only REPRESENTS either of those. Its a fucking symbol you utter baboon it never was or could ever be the thing it represents. Is that so hard for you to understand? Can you even begin to comprehend why making money out of thin fucking air is nothing but a scam?
That kind of retardation is what makes you think the menu of a restaurant is just as valid as the food, huh?
Fucking hell are you retarded.
2b16e7 No.16247449
>>16245377
Show us a country in all of human history without a "ring" you endless faggot.
If your idea had even the shadow of logic of sense it would've existed in some form but it hasn't, has it?
Hierarchy is the natural state of humans a system that worked for millenia and through the worst of hardships you can imagine. You're just too much of a faggot to recognize the necessity of authority.
>explicity consent
Fucking feminist cuckold.
2b16e7 No.16247482
>>16246085
>>16245769
You have not presented a single argument you infinite faggot and I don't believe for a fucking second that you ever understood what National Socialism is really about. You just repeat your lines like a fucking kike hoping it will convince people of your eternal fucking wisdom when your words don't even carry the weight of a feather.
36d5f3 No.16248156
>>16238611
He's making fun of it you know.
60ef3f No.16248161
>>16245173
> As is any big corporation; they lobby for laws to regulate and strangle the entry into the market they're already big in, and just kill the competition
>Remove state from the equation
>Corporation hires a heroin addict to stab you in the throat and just kill the competition
Wow, sure showed me
>>16245377
>Fantasy book analogies
It's just like that time when voldemort almost killed harry potter!
>>16245769
Why would you aspire for more than privilege of masturbating to interracial tranny porn all day when you can make money alongside BASED NIGGERS AND PAJEETS?
>family?
<nice collectivism, cuck
>history?
<lmao capeshit is more interesting
>culture?
<imma dab on you an see gurl twerk muh dik
>>16246085
There's a reason most lolbergs are obese filthy slobs and not caucasoid-looking buddhist monks, your "freedom" is enslavement to primal urges and abandoning morality
>>16247449
Checkmate, there were individualist™ ancap freedomlands in Africa until da whitey com along and be building shieet.
118601 No.16249547
>>16242464
except National Socialism has been tried and worked
ec4011 No.16251010
>>16249547
until the idiot in charge started invading multiple countries
118601 No.16251048
>>16251010
that was Russia and Britains fault
2425c2 No.16251067
>>16251010
>jews force germany into war
>stupid hitler started it!!!1!!!11oneone!!
Listen to his declaration of war on the USA speech.
e52ec6 No.16255293
>>16245067
"third positionists", like all other socialists, are economically illiterate